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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > April 2008 > Farm Windmill - Converting up and down motion to circular?
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| Author |
Farm Windmill - Converting up and down motion to circular?
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| Glenn Jensen 2008-04-01, 3:25 am |
| Hey There:
I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of
travel. Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as to
run a generator or alternator?
Thanks.
Glenn
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"Glenn Jensen" <ve6dkk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ePCdnZCfgeGuJGzanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@sasktel...
> Hey There:
>
> I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of travel.
> Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as to run a
> generator or alternator?
>
Connect it to a "crankshaft" with the same rotational diameter as the motion.
(Same as the one that generates the motion)
| |
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| Glenn Jensen wrote:
> Hey There:
>
> I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of
> travel. Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as to
> run a generator or alternator?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn
>
>
hi Glenn
is it not just possible to direct drive or belt drive off the main shaft
from the blades ?
as I understand it wind pumps are designed for low rpm high torque so a
belt system to increase rpm to alternator might be a good idea .
Sam c .
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| Paul Ciszek 2008-04-01, 8:26 pm |
|
In article <ePCdnZCfgeGuJGzanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@sasktel>,
Glenn Jensen <ve6dkk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hey There:
>
>I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of
>travel. Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as to
>run a generator or alternator?
The windmill must be converting rotary motion to up-and-down motion
in the first place. I'm not expert on wind systems, but wouldn't it
make sense to take out the crankshaft or whatever that does the
conversion and mount your generator up on the windmill? You may need
a gearbox, though.
--
Please reply to: | President Bush is promoting Peace and Democracy
pciszek at panix dot com | in the Middle East by selling Weapons to the
Autoreply is disabled | King of Saudi Arabia.
| |
| harry k 2008-04-01, 9:26 pm |
| On Apr 1, 5:52=A0pm, nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> In article <ePCdnZCfgeGuJGzanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@sasktel>,
>
> Glenn Jensen <ve6...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
to[color=darkred]
>
> The windmill must be converting rotary motion to up-and-down motion
> in the first place. =A0I'm not expert on wind systems, but wouldn't it
> make sense to take out the crankshaft or whatever that does the
> conversion and mount your generator up on the windmill? =A0You may need
> a gearbox, though.
>
> --
> Please reply to: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0| President Bush is promoting Peac=
e and Democracy
> pciszek at panix dot com =A0 =A0| in the Middle East by selling Weapons to=
the
> Autoreply is disabled =A0 =A0 =A0 | King of Saudi Arabia.
Hmmm....let's see. Windmill starts with rotary motion, converted to
upsy/downsy, coverted back to rotary...Nope, I don't see anything odd
about that concept ;)
Harry K
| |
| Glenn Jensen 2008-04-03, 3:25 am |
| I realize it seems inefficient to convert from circular motion at the top of
the windmill, to "up and down", back to circular motion on the ground, but
this is what I have to work with. Unless I redesign the entire old style
windmill, this would be the simplest for me to convert back to rotary motion
on the ground. Just curious if anyone has done this before. The idea of a
Crankshaft on the bottom, with a flywheel to maintain the momentum of the
"up and down" motion was an idea of mine as well.
Thanks everyone for their help.
Glenn
"harry k" <turnkey4099@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:036c52f9-7926-44a8-bfc0-341a35a896d6@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 1, 5:52 pm, nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> In article <ePCdnZCfgeGuJGzanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@sasktel>,
>
> Glenn Jensen <ve6...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The windmill must be converting rotary motion to up-and-down motion
> in the first place. I'm not expert on wind systems, but wouldn't it
> make sense to take out the crankshaft or whatever that does the
> conversion and mount your generator up on the windmill? You may need
> a gearbox, though.
>
> --
> Please reply to: | President Bush is promoting Peace and Democracy
> pciszek at panix dot com | in the Middle East by selling Weapons to the
> Autoreply is disabled | King of Saudi Arabia.
Hmmm....let's see. Windmill starts with rotary motion, converted to
upsy/downsy, coverted back to rotary...Nope, I don't see anything odd
about that concept ;)
Harry K
| |
| Daniel Who Wants to Know 2008-04-03, 3:25 am |
|
"Glenn Jensen" <ve6dkk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p92dnTpnmIBO2WnanZ2dnUVZ_ryqnZ2d@sasktel...
>I realize it seems inefficient to convert from circular motion at the top
>of the windmill, to "up and down", back to circular motion on the ground,
>but this is what I have to work with. Unless I redesign the entire old
>style windmill, this would be the simplest for me to convert back to rotary
>motion on the ground. Just curious if anyone has done this before. The
>idea of a Crankshaft on the bottom, with a flywheel to maintain the
>momentum of the "up and down" motion was an idea of mine as well.
>
> Thanks everyone for their help.
>
The problem with using a crank at the bottom to convert back to rotary is
what happens if the wind dies down and the windmill stops with the crank at
either TDC or BDC. When it tried to move again it would either be pulling
straight up or pushing straight down and with no sideways force to get the
bottom crank turning again it would try to hold the windmill blades still
which could break something if the wind got strong enough. If the rod moves
in a circular motion with the top crank instead of straight up and down you
could add a sliding pivot point halfway between the 2 cranks which would
provide the necessary sideways force and would prevent the stalled condition
I described.
| |
| bealiba@gmail.com 2008-04-03, 3:25 am |
| This kind of thinking is the result of listening to fools.
It won't work, if it did every farmer in the world would be energy
independent.
But think of this, a generator is nothing more than a device to pass a
coil through a magnetic field. So you mount all your magnets on a rod
parallel to the moving rod of the windmill which has the coils mounted
on it. The trick is to get the spacing right so that the coils pass
the magnets sequentially to give a continuous current. And you get to
pump water as well.
But you want to be quick, because, as soon as beemerwanker reads this
he will try to take out a patent.
Of course if you really want to get into generating big time you could
put a micro hydro turbine in the water pipe as well, I mean, as long
as you are moving water, it may as well do some work as well.
Reality, I first saw "your" concept more than twenty years ago. It was
such a success that there are, Oh Dear, none in use today.
On Apr 1, 2:25 pm, "Glenn Jensen" <ve6...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey There:
>
> I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of
> travel. Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as to
> run a generator or alternator?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn
| |
|
| "Glenn Jensen" <ve6dkk@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:p92dnTpnmIBO2WnanZ2dnUVZ_ryqnZ2d@sasktel:
> I realize it seems inefficient to convert from circular motion at the
> top of the windmill, to "up and down", back to circular motion on the
> ground, but this is what I have to work with. Unless I redesign the
> entire old style windmill, this would be the simplest for me to
> convert back to rotary motion on the ground. Just curious if anyone
> has done this before. The idea of a Crankshaft on the bottom, with a
> flywheel to maintain the momentum of the "up and down" motion was an
> idea of mine as well.
>
> Thanks everyone for their help.
This sounds like a cool project.. take some pics!
>
> Glenn
> "harry k" <turnkey4099@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:036c52f9-7926-44a8-bfc0-341a35a896d6@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com.
> .. On Apr 1, 5:52 pm, nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
>
> Hmmm....let's see. Windmill starts with rotary motion, converted to
> upsy/downsy, coverted back to rotary...Nope, I don't see anything odd
> about that concept ;)
>
> Harry K
>
>
| |
| Mauried 2008-04-03, 3:25 am |
| On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:43:00 -0700 (PDT), bealiba@gmail.com wrote:
>This kind of thinking is the result of listening to fools.
>
>It won't work, if it did every farmer in the world would be energy
>independent.
>
>But think of this, a generator is nothing more than a device to pass a
>coil through a magnetic field. So you mount all your magnets on a rod
>parallel to the moving rod of the windmill which has the coils mounted
>on it. The trick is to get the spacing right so that the coils pass
>the magnets sequentially to give a continuous current. And you get to
>pump water as well.
>
>But you want to be quick, because, as soon as beemerwanker reads this
>he will try to take out a patent.
>
>Of course if you really want to get into generating big time you could
>put a micro hydro turbine in the water pipe as well, I mean, as long
>as you are moving water, it may as well do some work as well.
>
>
>
>Reality, I first saw "your" concept more than twenty years ago. It was
>such a success that there are, Oh Dear, none in use today.
>
>
>
>On Apr 1, 2:25 pm, "Glenn Jensen" <ve6...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
A couple of obvious questions
How much power do you want to or expect to generate.
Do you have the required gearbox to increase the shaft RPM to drive an
alternator.
Do you have a suitable alternator.
Reason for asking is that windmills to generate power are specially
designed just for this purpose.
They use a specific blade arrangement (2 or 3 blades max,and a very
carfeully controlled blade pitch) with a very efficient alternator
designed to produce useful output at low RPM.
A farm type windmill for pumping water will make a poor generator.
..
| |
|
| Glenn Jensen wrote:
> Hey There:
>
> I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of
> travel. Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as to
> run a generator or alternator?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn
>
>
I'm thinking buy up a bunch of those shaker flashlights, duct tape them
to the sucker rod, and wire them up to a battery farm and then use an
inverter to get 110 V ac for the beer fridge.
That should getter done.
| |
| wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net 2008-04-03, 9:25 am |
| On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:45:27 -0600, "Glenn Jensen" <ve6dkk@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>I realize it seems inefficient to convert from circular motion at the top of
>the windmill, to "up and down", back to circular motion on the ground, but
>this is what I have to work with. Unless I redesign the entire old style
>windmill, this would be the simplest for me to convert back to rotary motion
>on the ground. Just curious if anyone has done this before. The idea of a
>Crankshaft on the bottom, with a flywheel to maintain the momentum of the
>"up and down" motion was an idea of mine as well.
Converting one of those old windmills to turn a car alternator isn't
worth the effort IMO, but it's certainly possible since this guy's
already done it.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/...me/message/4406 You
could try emailing him done for further info.
Wayne
| |
| Solar Flare 2008-04-03, 9:25 am |
| 1 stroke per second isn't gonna' generate enough to keep one beer cold.
"Moe" <BubbleleLand@Fat.City> wrote in message
news:47f4ba17$0$4064$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
> Glenn Jensen wrote:
> I'm thinking buy up a bunch of those shaker flashlights, duct tape them to
> the sucker rod, and wire them up to a battery farm and then use an
> inverter to get 110 V ac for the beer fridge.
> That should getter done.
| |
| harry k 2008-04-03, 1:26 pm |
| On Apr 2, 7:45=A0pm, "Glenn Jensen" <ve6...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I realize it seems inefficient to convert from circular motion at the top =
of
> the windmill, to "up and down", back to circular motion on the ground, but=
> this is what I have to work with. =A0Unless I redesign the entire old styl=
e
> windmill, this would be the simplest for me to convert back to rotary moti=
on
> on the ground. =A0Just curious if anyone has done this before. =A0The idea=
of a
> Crankshaft on the bottom, with a flywheel to maintain the momentum of the
> "up and down" motion was an idea of mine as well.
>
> Thanks everyone for their help.
>
> Glenn"harry k" <turnkey4...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:036c52f9-7926-44a8-bfc0-341a35a896d6@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 1, 5:52 pm, nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
o[color=darkred]
>
>
>
> Hmmm....let's see. =A0Windmill starts with rotary motion, converted to
> upsy/downsy, coverted back to rotary...Nope, I don't see anything odd
> about that concept ;)
>
> Harry K- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just 'funning' you. I spotted several problems with trying to put the
'works' at the top beginning with some sort of slip-ring to pick off
the generated juice.
Harry K
| |
| harry k 2008-04-03, 1:26 pm |
| On Apr 3, 6:58=A0am, "Solar Flare" <solarfl...@hotmale.invalid> wrote:
> 1 stroke per second isn't gonna' generate enough to =A0keep one beer cold.=
>
> "Moe" <BubbleleL...@Fat.City> wrote in message
>
> news:47f4ba17$0$4064$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net...
>
>
>
>
s to[color=darkred]
>
>
to[color=darkred]
>
> - Show quoted text -
But once you have the motion back to rotary, it is a simple job to
speed up the driven pulley/gear/whateveer.
We used a "WinCharger" back in the 30s and 40s to keep the car battery
that ran the house radio charged. That was before the REA came
through. I think that company, or similar , are still in business.
Harry K
| |
| Balanced View 2008-04-03, 1:26 pm |
| Mauried wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:43:00 -0700 (PDT), bealiba@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> A couple of obvious questions
> How much power do you want to or expect to generate.
> Do you have the required gearbox to increase the shaft RPM to drive an
> alternator.
> Do you have a suitable alternator.
>
> Reason for asking is that windmills to generate power are specially
> designed just for this purpose.
> They use a specific blade arrangement (2 or 3 blades max,and a very
> carfeully controlled blade pitch) with a very efficient alternator
> designed to produce useful output at low RPM.
> A farm type windmill for pumping water will make a poor generator.
> .
>
I often hear this and think it false, the water pumpers spin slow, but
have quite a bit of torque and
spin in very little wind. I can't see there being a problem in gearing
one up. If the thing is going to
spin away, why not make some power?
| |
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| Ulysses 2008-04-03, 1:26 pm |
|
"Glenn Jensen" <ve6dkk@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ePCdnZCfgeGuJGzanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@sasktel...
> Hey There:
>
> I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of
> travel. Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as to
> run a generator or alternator?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn
>
>
Does it pump water? Maybe you could pump into an elevated tank and run it
through a micro-hydro turbine.
| |
| clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada 2008-04-03, 1:26 pm |
| On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:05:22 GMT, mauried@tpg.com.au (Mauried) wrote:
>On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:43:00 -0700 (PDT), bealiba@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>A couple of obvious questions
>How much power do you want to or expect to generate.
>Do you have the required gearbox to increase the shaft RPM to drive an
>alternator.
>Do you have a suitable alternator.
>
>Reason for asking is that windmills to generate power are specially
>designed just for this purpose.
>They use a specific blade arrangement (2 or 3 blades max,and a very
>carfeully controlled blade pitch) with a very efficient alternator
>designed to produce useful output at low RPM.
>A farm type windmill for pumping water will make a poor generator.
>.
Put a bike chain on the "pull rod" and put the chain around a
freewheel sprocket on a flywheel (think exercise machine flywheel)
with magnets on the flywheel and an alternator stator. If you want
more ballanced power put 2 chains on with 2 freewheels, one on the up
stroke and one on the downstroke. The "free" end of the chain is
restrained and returned by a light doorspring.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2008-04-03, 1:26 pm |
| Balanced View wrote:
> Mauried wrote:
....
>
> I often hear this and think it false, the water pumpers spin slow, but
> have quite a bit of torque and
> spin in very little wind. I can't see there being a problem in gearing
> one up. If the thing is going to
> spin away, why not make some power?
The problem with gearing, as I understand it, is that there is some
power loss in the process and you have a lot more moving parts. The
more moving parts you have, the more chances for something to fail.
Water pumping wind turbines might not be the best for generating
electricity but they'll still work.
Anthony
| |
|
| Moe <BubbleleLand@Fat.City> wrote in
news:47f4ba17$0$4064$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net:
> Glenn Jensen wrote:
> I'm thinking buy up a bunch of those shaker flashlights, duct tape
> them to the sucker rod, and wire them up to a battery farm and then
> use an inverter to get 110 V ac for the beer fridge.
> That should getter done.
That cracked me up dude. Brilliant!
| |
|
| "Glenn Jensen" <ve6dkk@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ePCdnZCfgeGuJGzanZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@sasktel:
> Hey There:
>
> I have a farm windmill that produces up/down motion, about 4 inches of
> travel. Any idea how to convert this action into rotary motion, so as
> to run a generator or alternator?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Glenn
>
>
How about hooking the shaft to one of those foot old treadle sewing
machines and gearing that up to an alternator. I wonder if they ever made
one sized for elephants 
Or you could even rig the up/down to a bicycle frame and use the gearing on
the bike to gain RPM
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