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Home > Archive > Home Automation > December 2007 > Need kitchen undercabinet dimmable light ideas
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Need kitchen undercabinet dimmable light ideas
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| Folks -
I'm redoing my kitchen and I want to add undercabinet lighting (which I
don't have right now). It needs to be able to be controlled by X-10 (or
otherwise via my HomeVision automation system. I'd like the lights to be
dimmable, so I can include them in scenes.
Here's my problem:
1) the most popular undercabinet lights - florescent - don't dim, and
are potential X-10 noise sources (at least that's my somewhat dated
understanding).
2) 12v Halogens don't dim well, I believe, and ar probably hot.
3) 120v xenon lights DO dim, but they are HOT. I bought one to try out
in my old kitchen and the inside of the kitchen cabinet gets really hot
(not just a little warm). I wouldn't want to put anything sensitive to
heat in the cabinets if I used these. That pretty much rules them out too.
4) The LED lighting I've seen so far is not bright enough for task
lighting need in the kitchen; but then again, I haven't seen too many of
these yet.
Not sure what options I have left? Any Ideas?
Thanks,
Ron
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| How about a string of Christmas rope lights?
"Ron" <nospam@default.com> wrote in message
news:rdadnfjDX5dShPranZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Folks -
>
> I'm redoing my kitchen and I want to add undercabinet lighting (which I
> don't have right now). It needs to be able to be controlled by X-10 (or
> otherwise via my HomeVision automation system. I'd like the lights to be
> dimmable, so I can include them in scenes.
>
> Here's my problem:
> 1) the most popular undercabinet lights - florescent - don't dim, and are
> potential X-10 noise sources (at least that's my somewhat dated
> understanding).
>
> 2) 12v Halogens don't dim well, I believe, and ar probably hot.
>
> 3) 120v xenon lights DO dim, but they are HOT. I bought one to try out in
> my old kitchen and the inside of the kitchen cabinet gets really hot (not
> just a little warm). I wouldn't want to put anything sensitive to heat in
> the cabinets if I used these. That pretty much rules them out too.
>
> 4) The LED lighting I've seen so far is not bright enough for task
> lighting need in the kitchen; but then again, I haven't seen too many of
> these yet.
>
> Not sure what options I have left? Any Ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron
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| On 12/17/2007 10:48 PM, D wrote:
> How about a string of Christmas rope lights?
I thought about that, but haven't experimented with them yet. I'd have
to see how hot they get when concentrated enough to focus enough light
on the workspace. Has some promise...
Thanks,
Ron
>
> "Ron" wrote in message
[color=darkred]
>
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| On 12/19/2007 8:40 PM, Ron wrote:
> On 12/17/2007 10:48 PM, D wrote:
>
> I thought about that, but haven't experimented with them yet. I'd have
> to see how hot they get when concentrated enough to focus enough light
> on the workspace. Has some promise...
> Thanks,
> Ron
>
Well I bought a 9' rope of white LEDs and an 18' rope of white
incandescents. Neither is bright enough for kitchen task lighting, even
with the full 18' of incandescent rope concentrated under one cabinet.
Need to find another solution....
Ron
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| Robert L Bass 2007-12-21, 8:25 pm |
| "Ron" wrote:
>
> Well I bought a 9' rope of white LEDs and an 18' rope of white
> incandescents. Neither is bright enough for kitchen task lighting,
> even with the full 18' of incandescent rope concentrated under one
> cabinet.
>
> Need to find another solution....
Have you considered xenon lamps? They're small, dimmable (according
to one online purveyor) and last a long time. They are relatively
cheap and have a ~20,000 hour bulb life (same source).
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-232-0791
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
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| John J. Bengii 2007-12-21, 8:25 pm |
| I have the standard halogen bulbs (two in a fixture) under the dark
part of my kitchen counter cabinets. I have these run off a motion
detector with a remote, coily cord, sensor. I have tucked the sensor
behind the fridge so it only sees straight down the counter in use.
This works perfectly and never cuts out as long as you are standing in
front of the 24 x 24 inch cutting board. It shuts off within about 15
seconds of walking away. It must be possitioned so that forward and
backward motion of the person cuts the lines of vision of the sensor.
A word of warning. Undercabinet/counter lights do not work well if you
have shiny backsplash material. The glare will make it harder to see
the item you are working on. You need a matt/dull work surface and a
dull backsplash/wall.
"Ron" <nospam@default.com> wrote in message
news:rdadnfjDX5dShPranZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Folks -
>
> I'm redoing my kitchen and I want to add undercabinet lighting
> (which I don't have right now). It needs to be able to be controlled
> by X-10 (or otherwise via my HomeVision automation system. I'd like
> the lights to be dimmable, so I can include them in scenes.
>
> Here's my problem:
> 1) the most popular undercabinet lights - florescent - don't dim,
> and are potential X-10 noise sources (at least that's my somewhat
> dated understanding).
>
> 2) 12v Halogens don't dim well, I believe, and ar probably hot.
>
> 3) 120v xenon lights DO dim, but they are HOT. I bought one to try
> out in my old kitchen and the inside of the kitchen cabinet gets
> really hot (not just a little warm). I wouldn't want to put anything
> sensitive to heat in the cabinets if I used these. That pretty much
> rules them out too.
>
> 4) The LED lighting I've seen so far is not bright enough for task
> lighting need in the kitchen; but then again, I haven't seen too
> many of these yet.
>
> Not sure what options I have left? Any Ideas?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron
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| Yes Bob,
read Rons first post. He has pretty much eliminated everything, claiming
produces too much heat. And the suggested rope lights don't produce enough
light. At some point in time Ron will figure out if he demands "dimmable"
and "lots of light" then that equals heat.
Ron, if rope lights are not bright enough, look at 120V halogen pucks.
"Robert L Bass" <RobertLBass@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:y3Yaj.69$XW3.59@trnddc04...
> "Ron" wrote:
>
> Have you considered xenon lamps? They're small, dimmable (according to
> one online purveyor) and last a long time. They are relatively cheap and
> have a ~20,000 hour bulb life (same source).
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
> ==============================>
> Bass Home Electronics
> 4883 Fallcrest Circle
> Sarasota · Florida · 34233
> http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
> Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
> Customer Service 941-232-0791
> Fax 941-870-3252
> ==============================>
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| On 12/21/2007 6:33 PM, Robert L Bass wrote:
> "Ron" wrote:
>
> Have you considered xenon lamps? They're small, dimmable (according to
> one online purveyor) and last a long time. They are relatively cheap
> and have a ~20,000 hour bulb life (same source).
>
#3 option in my original post WAS xenon lights. I've tested these, and
they dim great, look great, BUT -- They are WAY too hot for kitchen
undercabinet use, in my opinion. Makes the insides of the cabinet hot
(not just warm). Of course, the undercabinet application is how they are
marketed. It's puzzling to my why anyone would want to use these in this
situation, unless I'm the only one who puts heat-sensitive items (like
food!) in their cabinets. ;-)
Ron
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| John J. Bengii 2007-12-23, 3:25 am |
| Finishes drying the dishes.
"Ron" <nospam@default.com> wrote in message
news:e8-dnSl-r--gafDanZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> #3 option in my original post WAS xenon lights. I've tested these,
> and they dim great, look great, BUT -- They are WAY too hot for
> kitchen undercabinet use, in my opinion. Makes the insides of the
> cabinet hot (not just warm). Of course, the undercabinet application
> is how they are marketed. It's puzzling to my why anyone would want
> to use these in this situation, unless I'm the only one who puts
> heat-sensitive items (like food!) in their cabinets. ;-)
>
> Ron
| |
| Robert L Bass 2007-12-23, 3:25 am |
| > #3 option in my original post WAS xenon lights. I've tested these,
> and they dim great, look great, BUT -- They are WAY too hot for
> kitchen undercabinet use, in my opinion. Makes the insides of the
> cabinet hot (not just warm). Of course, the undercabinet
> application is how they are marketed. It's puzzling to my why
> anyone would want to use these in this situation, unless I'm the
> only one who puts heat-sensitive items (like food!) in their
> cabinets. ;-)
In my kitchen the layout is somewhat different. All of the
over-the-counter cabinets contain dishes, glasses, cups or dried
spices (*lots* of spices  ) so a little extra heat there is of no
consequence. I've been kicking around the idea of installing
under-cabinet lighting there for a while. Xenon looks like a good
possibility for my app. Since we have lots of dimmable ceiling cans
and other switched lights in the kitchen, I don't think I'll dim the
under-cabinet lights. If I get around to it any time soon I'll let
you know how it works out for us.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-232-0791
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
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| Yes, I've come to that conclusion - bright and dimmable equals heat
(which I guess should have been obvious).
So I guess I'd like to modify my question here:
What do people who already have halogen or Xenon fixtures install
undercabinet experience w.r.t heat in the cabinets? Are you using pucks
or the more traditional (florescent style) fixtures?
Ron
On 12/22/2007 5:10 PM, D&SW wrote:
> read Rons first post. He has pretty much eliminated everything, claiming
> produces too much heat. And the suggested rope lights don't produce enough
> light. At some point in time Ron will figure out if he demands "dimmable"
> and "lots of light" then that equals heat.
>
> Ron, if rope lights are not bright enough, look at 120V halogen pucks.
>
| |
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| Bob -
I probably would do a similar thing - it's the spices I worry about.
Even though some of them are "dried", storage recommendations for spices
are usually "cool and dry". So I'd be concerned about the heat there...
Ron
On 12/23/2007 1:27 AM, Robert L Bass wrote:
> In my kitchen the layout is somewhat different. All of the
> over-the-counter cabinets contain dishes, glasses, cups or dried spices
> (*lots* of spices ) so a little extra heat there is of no
> consequence.
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-23, 5:25 pm |
| 24 inch fixture with a bulb at each end. These are no less efficient
than any other incandescent and therefore generate no more heat. I
think th ebulbs are about 15 watts each.
"Ron" <nospam@default.com> wrote in message
news:1NKdnQp9Pd5kUvPanZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@comcast.com...[color=darkred]
> Yes, I've come to that conclusion - bright and dimmable equals heat
> (which I guess should have been obvious).
>
> So I guess I'd like to modify my question here:
>
> What do people who already have halogen or Xenon fixtures install
> undercabinet experience w.r.t heat in the cabinets? Are you using
> pucks or the more traditional (florescent style) fixtures?
>
> Ron
>
> On 12/22/2007 5:10 PM, D&SW wrote:
>
| |
| Robert L Bass 2007-12-23, 8:25 pm |
| "Ron" wrote:
>
> I probably would do a similar thing - it's the spices I worry
> about. Even though some of them are "dried", storage
> recommendations for spices are usually "cool and dry". So I'd be
> concerned about the heat there...
In our previous home larger jars of dried spices were stored in the
cabinet above the stove which was always warm. There was no ill
effect though I didn't keep sensitive stuff like saffron there. I
get a kick out of the expiration dates printed on spices. Some are
"good" for about a year and a half. Others are marked, "Best if used
by 12/03/2015" or some such. ISTR there were jars of spices
discovered in one of the pyramids and they were still usable. (Note:
That might be MUL).
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-232-0791
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
| |
| Robert L Bass 2007-12-23, 8:25 pm |
| "Ron" wrote:
>
> ...bright and dimmable equals heat (which I guess should have been
> obvious)....
There's another approach you might wish to consider. You could
install 2 circuits of xenon bulbs and switch them independently,
giving you 4 levels:
All off
A On
B On
A+B On
It's not as slick as infinite dimming but it might be all the
flexibility you need and it will eliminate the dimmers.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-232-0791
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
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