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Survey: Home Control Software
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| John J. Bengii 2007-12-22, 5:25 pm |
| I would like to know what people are using to control their home
devices.
Also a short note on how reliable they feel the system is.
Thanx
I use Harpers HC2000 / DOS control programme...has some quirks and the
system is too slow.
-I found X10 receievers work flakey in certain locations, despite
trying to correct for 15 years. Must be a resonant piece of wiring??
-I found X10 wireless RF receiver/X10 converters to be really bad.
They send out All Lights On codes at random sometimes and mistake
codes. I run four units with different house codes and they all seem
to do it about once every month or two.
- I found wireless X10 motion detectors do not work well in the cold.
Not the batteries, unless just weaker. They begin to work better as
the weather warms up (garage wall)
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-23, 9:25 am |
| I use software I've written myself so I'm not familiar with the packages
others use or the reliability level.
Your flaky receivers may have a nearby signal sink which attenuates the
signal. Usually, this is a piece of electronic gear that has a capacitor
across the mains. Some of these are only bothersome when turned on, some are
always a problem. For a brief explanation see...
http://davehouston.org/noise.htm
An ELK ESM1 X-10 Signal Strength Meter can eliminate most of the guesswork.
You can even "borrow" one from AutomatedOutlet.com.
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/prod...3&cat=44&page=1
Which RF receivers do you have? The TM751 does not "hear" powerline activity
so it's output can collide with other signals on the line. Usually, the
result is like automobile collisions (junk) but occasionally the result is a
valid X-10 code (even when both have different housecodes). This is the most
likely cause of what you experience. The RR501 "hears" the powerline and
backs off after sensing a collision, sending its code only after the line is
clear. It doesn't totally eliminate collisions but does reduce the number.
The Leviton HCPRF handles all housecodes so you may not need as many of them
although none of these have really great range so you may need multiples
just for coverage. There's a brief paragraph on the HCPRF here...
http://davehouston.org/leviton-aht.htm
X-10's wireless motion sensors can exacerbate the collision problem,
especially when placed where one or more see the same motion.
Batteries lose their "oomph" rapidly as the temperature drops (and recover
when they warm up). A few people have run tests using their freezers and
posted their results. To begin with, the X-10 motion sensors are not top
shelf in terms of quality. There are more costly (but non-X10) motion
detectors designed for outdoor, cold weather use but all have problems at
really low temperatures - 'tis the nature of the beast.
http://www.powerbattery.com/pages/d....aspx?pageid=59
"John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>I would like to know what people are using to control their home
>devices.
>
>Also a short note on how reliable they feel the system is.
>
>Thanx
>
>I use Harpers HC2000 / DOS control programme...has some quirks and the
>system is too slow.
>
>-I found X10 receievers work flakey in certain locations, despite
>trying to correct for 15 years. Must be a resonant piece of wiring??
>
>-I found X10 wireless RF receiver/X10 converters to be really bad.
>They send out All Lights On codes at random sometimes and mistake
>codes. I run four units with different house codes and they all seem
>to do it about once every month or two.
>
>- I found wireless X10 motion detectors do not work well in the cold.
>Not the batteries, unless just weaker. They begin to work better as
>the weather warms up (garage wall)
>
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| Bream Rockmetteller 2007-12-24, 3:25 am |
| On 2007-12-22 14:49:09 -0800, "John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> said:
> I would like to know what people are using to control their home
> devices.
>
> Also a short note on how reliable they feel the system is.
>
> Thanx
>
> I use Harpers HC2000 / DOS control programme...has some quirks and the
> system is too slow.
>
> -I found X10 receievers work flakey in certain locations, despite
> trying to correct for 15 years. Must be a resonant piece of wiring??
>
> -I found X10 wireless RF receiver/X10 converters to be really bad.
> They send out All Lights On codes at random sometimes and mistake
> codes. I run four units with different house codes and they all seem
> to do it about once every month or two.
>
> - I found wireless X10 motion detectors do not work well in the cold.
> Not the batteries, unless just weaker. They begin to work better as
> the weather warms up (garage wall)
I'm using Indigo from Perceptive Automation. The software supports both
X10 and Insteon (although, my house wiring is too old for Insteon, so
I'm stuck with X10 and all of its quirks). It's nice because it runs a
server invisibly in the background, then the client software may
connect from any computer on your network. I've also been able to set
up responses to expected "bad" X10 messages from my wireless
transmitters so that the software sends the correct message when a bad
one is detected. It's very sophisticated software and worth the price.
--
Bream Rockmetteller
Donaldson's Dog Joy
509-450-0301
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-27, 3:25 am |
| Thanx for the reply. I have a couple of questions for you.
1) Can you explain how your wiring is too old for Insteon. I thought
it was backed up by RF connection and much faster but using alower
freq over the power line. This sounds more tolerable.
2) How does this software know any unit has received a bad message?
Everyone of my units receives an "All lamps on" signal about once per
month. A few receive "unit off" signals when I get collisions
sometimes.
"Bream Rockmetteller" <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com> wrote
in message
news:2007122323155616807-breamdotrockmettelleratmacdotcom@news.panic.com...
> I'm using Indigo from Perceptive Automation. The software supports
> both X10 and Insteon (although, my house wiring is too old for
> Insteon, so I'm stuck with X10 and all of its quirks). It's nice
> because it runs a server invisibly in the background, then the
> client software may connect from any computer on your network. I've
> also been able to set up responses to expected "bad" X10 messages
> from my wireless transmitters so that the software sends the correct
> message when a bad one is detected. It's very sophisticated software
> and worth the price.
> --
> Bream Rockmetteller
> Donaldson's Dog Joy
> 509-450-0301
>
| |
| Bream Rockmetteller 2007-12-27, 3:25 am |
| On 2007-12-26 19:45:18 -0800, "John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> said:
[color=darkred]
> Thanx for the reply. I have a couple of questions for you.
>
> 1) Can you explain how your wiring is too old for Insteon. I thought
> it was backed up by RF connection and much faster but using alower
> freq over the power line. This sounds more tolerable.
>
> 2) How does this software know any unit has received a bad message?
> Everyone of my units receives an "All lamps on" signal about once per
> month. A few receive "unit off" signals when I get collisions
> sometimes.
>
> "Bream Rockmetteller" <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com> wrote
> in message
> news:2007122323155616807-breamdotrockmettelleratmacdotcom@news.panic.com...
The Insteon switch require power for its own purposes.
In a modern electrical box, you'll find individual wires for power and
return as well as ground wires and wires to the load. All of the common
return wires are typically bundled together, and each load gets its own
switched power line.
An Insteon switch has three wires: one for power, one for return and
one for load. You can connect the Insteon switch to the power and
return, and connect a lamp to the load, but only assuming it has its
own common return path.
My old house only has power entering the box, and a single wire to the
load. There's no power for the Insteon circuitry itself, and the load
has a return path I can't access. So, The blue wire out of the Insteon
switch doesn't do me much good. I've discussed this with the SmartHome
folks, and they basically told me it won't work.
The old-fashioned X-10 switches have only two wires: power in and power
to the load... 1970's-style code. The switch gets its own power and
provides power to the load from the same source.
Regarding the software, the reason it knows it has received a "bad"
message is because I told it so. When I have a light act in a strange
manner, I look at the log that Indigo keeps.
If I see that an RF switch somehow transmitted "turn on E10" instead of
"turn on the kitchen lights" which are E1, I'll add a script in the
"Trigger Actions" sections that says something like "If you receive a
message to turn on E10, send a message to turn on the kitchen lights."
That way, even if the switch or the receiver or some random noise has
caused the message to go bad, the software will re-transmit the correct
message.
I hope this helps...
--
Bream Rockmetteller
Donaldson's Dog Joy
509-450-0301
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-27, 9:25 am |
| While you did not address your questions to me, I can answer some of them.
Insteon devices require neutral.
Insteon has over-hyped some of their marketing jargon, particularly the
"dual mesh network" phrase, leading to a frequent misunderstanding. There
are only a very limited number of Insteon devices that send/receive RF. They
use an RF link to couple the phases and you can add RF Access Points, if
needed, but the switches and plug-in modules are not-RF capable, they only
send/receive via the powerline. They are planning more RF devices. There's
awhitepaper on the Insteon web site that gives the details if you want to
know more.
Forward error correction is impossible with X-10.
"John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>1) Can you explain how your wiring is too old for Insteon. I thought
>it was backed up by RF connection and much faster but using alower
>freq over the power line. This sounds more tolerable.
>
>2) How does this software know any unit has received a bad message?
>Everyone of my units receives an "All lamps on" signal about once per
>month. A few receive "unit off" signals when I get collisions
>sometimes.
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-27, 9:25 am |
| Unless you're using something that receives RF directly, you cannot see the
RF messages. You only see powerline messages so the incorrect command has
already made it to the powerline before your software is aware of it.
Even if your software does receive direct RF messages, there are seldom
collisions between RF codes and when there are, the result is garbage -
there's no possible way to sort out what the two colliding messages were.
The RF messages do contain data which allows a receiver to check validity
but any corruption will merely cause an invalid message it will not cause
one message to be transformed into another. IOW, corrupt RF messages never
make it to the powerline from any X-10 transceiver.
Bream Rockmetteller <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com> wrote:
>Regarding the software, the reason it knows it has received a "bad"
>message is because I told it so. When I have a light act in a strange
>manner, I look at the log that Indigo keeps.
>
>If I see that an RF switch somehow transmitted "turn on E10" instead of
>"turn on the kitchen lights" which are E1, I'll add a script in the
>"Trigger Actions" sections that says something like "If you receive a
>message to turn on E10, send a message to turn on the kitchen lights."
>That way, even if the switch or the receiver or some random noise has
>caused the message to go bad, the software will re-transmit the correct
>message.
>
>I hope this helps...
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
|
|
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-27, 1:25 pm |
| So the Insteon devices all require netrals to perform properly and get
clearer signals. I know the X10 devices typically do not require
neutrals but there are a few starting to need a neutral . I think I
have one device. Of course non of this discussion woul apply to a wall
wart device where all conductors are available anyway...correct?
In modern wiring techniques the neutral is often not accessable
either. Wiring codes recommend the feed goes to the lamps octagon box
first, where there are more cubit inches of air for the multiple
connection heat to be disapated. Then the light switch only gets two
wires and cannot ake a device requiing a neutral. It would appear,
with CFL lamping and their 3rd harmonic generations, any system
without a neutral will become a problem.
Thanx. This is beginning to clear in my head somewhat.
"Bream Rockmetteller" <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com> wrote
in message
news:2007122623390175249-breamdotrockmettelleratmacdotcom@news.panic.com...
> On 2007-12-26 19:45:18 -0800, "John J. Bengii"
> <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> said:
>
>
> The Insteon switch require power for its own purposes.
>
> In a modern electrical box, you'll find individual wires for power
> and return as well as ground wires and wires to the load. All of the
> common return wires are typically bundled together, and each load
> gets its own switched power line.
>
> An Insteon switch has three wires: one for power, one for return
> and one for load. You can connect the Insteon switch to the power
> and return, and connect a lamp to the load, but only assuming it has
> its own common return path.
>
> My old house only has power entering the box, and a single wire to
> the load. There's no power for the Insteon circuitry itself, and the
> load has a return path I can't access. So, The blue wire out of the
> Insteon switch doesn't do me much good. I've discussed this with the
> SmartHome folks, and they basically told me it won't work.
>
> The old-fashioned X-10 switches have only two wires: power in and
> power to the load... 1970's-style code. The switch gets its own
> power and provides power to the load from the same source.
>
> Regarding the software, the reason it knows it has received a "bad"
> message is because I told it so. When I have a light act in a
> strange manner, I look at the log that Indigo keeps.
>
> If I see that an RF switch somehow transmitted "turn on E10" instead
> of "turn on the kitchen lights" which are E1, I'll add a script in
> the "Trigger Actions" sections that says something like "If you
> receive a message to turn on E10, send a message to turn on the
> kitchen lights." That way, even if the switch or the receiver or
> some random noise has caused the message to go bad, the software
> will re-transmit the correct message.
>
> I hope this helps...
> --
> Bream Rockmetteller
> Donaldson's Dog Joy
> 509-450-0301
>
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-27, 1:25 pm |
| I was not aware of the RF missing factor on these devices. You are
correct on the overhype. They discuss this technique in depth and give
the impression all Insteon devices are "fully equipped" but when
examining their remote units, the RF is never mentioned.
The units are quite pricey and the slow replacement of X10 devices
seems attractive. Most of mine have been removed from service due to
several reasons
- I am building a new home and recovering units for the move.
- many operated unreliabily or not at all despite two powerline signal
bridges and neighbour blocking devices.
- too may light left on for days is costing me energy money on my
bill, despite software to shut them down a few times a day for "just
in case" scenarios.
- too many "all lights on" in the middle of the night from wireless
receivers (I think)
I short the three of four dozen units and 15 years of trying to
perfect the system has resulted in a complete distrust for X10 units
and there is only a few spots where flakey can be useful. Soon I will
retire and won't need my "sunrise" algorythm for a 300W halogen
anymore either. I was hoping Inteon may be an answer for a technology
hungry kid.
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:4775911c.2425218@nntp.fuse.net...
> Unless you're using something that receives RF directly, you cannot
> see the
> RF messages. You only see powerline messages so the incorrect
> command has
> already made it to the powerline before your software is aware of
> it.
>
> Even if your software does receive direct RF messages, there are
> seldom
> collisions between RF codes and when there are, the result is
> garbage -
> there's no possible way to sort out what the two colliding messages
> were.
> The RF messages do contain data which allows a receiver to check
> validity
> but any corruption will merely cause an invalid message it will not
> cause
> one message to be transformed into another. IOW, corrupt RF messages
> never
> make it to the powerline from any X-10 transceiver.
>
> Bream Rockmetteller <bream(dot)rockmetteller(at)mac(dot)com> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
> roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-27, 1:25 pm |
| There's a "gotcha" with the gradual replacement scenario. Each Insteon
device is two-way and the transmitters attenuate X-10 signals in the same
manner as two-way X-10 devices do. The more Insteon devices, the better the
Insteon reliability but the bigger the hit on X-10 reliability. It depends
on how many total devices you have but at some point you'll probably find
you need to convert all remaining X-10 devices.
All that said, most of the people using Insteon report good reliability
although some report problems. While Insteon is subject to the same signal
attenuators and noise sources as X-10, filters will fix most problems as
they do for X-10. There are some persistent complainers on the Insteon forum
but I suspect most are from people who really do not understand it.
I think an ESM1 signal meter is almost a necessity. It lets you see X-10 and
Insteon signals (although it cannot interpret Insteon) and measure relative
amplitudes. It can eliminate most of the guesswork. AutomatedOutlet.com will
even loan you one - knowing full well that 98% (my WAG) of the loaners turn
into purchases.
http://www.automatedoutlet.com/prod...63&cat=0&page=1
Insteon prices have edged up plus they have apparently discontinued some of
their lower priced "value" lines but I think it is still the best choice for
new installations where the user doesn't want to spend far more for
hard-wired low voltage control. However, someone who has a large X-10
investment and understands the ins and outs is probably better off sticking
with it.
Given that you've had X-10 problems, you may continue to have them with
Insteon. You probably need to run the the problems down before deciding.
Whichever way you go, as you move into the new house, deploy switches and
modules in sub-groups so you can find and fix problems before you have a a
large number of devices. Troubleshooting a limited number of devices is
easier to manage. You'll have lots of time to troubleshoot.
"John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>I was not aware of the RF missing factor on these devices. You are
>correct on the overhype. They discuss this technique in depth and give
>the impression all Insteon devices are "fully equipped" but when
>examining their remote units, the RF is never mentioned.
>
>The units are quite pricey and the slow replacement of X10 devices
>seems attractive. Most of mine have been removed from service due to
>several reasons
>- I am building a new home and recovering units for the move.
>- many operated unreliabily or not at all despite two powerline signal
>bridges and neighbour blocking devices.
>- too may light left on for days is costing me energy money on my
>bill, despite software to shut them down a few times a day for "just
>in case" scenarios.
>- too many "all lights on" in the middle of the night from wireless
>receivers (I think)
>
>I short the three of four dozen units and 15 years of trying to
>perfect the system has resulted in a complete distrust for X10 units
>and there is only a few spots where flakey can be useful. Soon I will
>retire and won't need my "sunrise" algorythm for a 300W halogen
>anymore either. I was hoping Inteon may be an answer for a technology
>hungry kid.
>
>"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
>news:4775911c.2425218@nntp.fuse.net...
>
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-27, 1:25 pm |
| LOL. I doubt I will have lots of time to troubleshoot. I am building
the home, mostly myself. This wasn't intentional but it is hard to
find decent labout at a realistic price around that area.
The worst problem I have is my sunrise halogen that I progressively
briighten on work mornings. Some days the wall wart dimmer will not
shut off and I have to unplug it. I have tried different units with
the same success. I suspected I was pushing the unit's heat rating
(300W) and got a 200Watt bulb with the same result. Basically there is
nothing else on the circuit and it appears to work fine in the another
circuit. I have checked all the electrical connections and suspect
some kind of resonant tuned circuit in the cable length. My TW523 is
at the service panel for centralization with a 100' RS-232 connection
to the computer.
Basically I would also like to get something that will run on a
Windoze machine with network access to the beast. Currently I can only
run in DOS and I cannot for the life of me remember how to get all the
NIC drivers working. Win 3.11 used to set them all up for you and then
you just dropped the GUI. I wrote my own code for the CM-11 but can't
get through some of the protocol spec published. AFAIC it just doesn't
work in spots. On a power blink it needs to be accessed and relaod
macros or something (been a long time now) and haven't been able to
make it talk that part of it. I am sure there is all kinds of code and
drivers out there that are good for an old hack like me to boost his
starting point.
Is code writing for hacks supported with the Insteon i/f also?
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:4773e7e2.24639250@nntp.fuse.net...
> There's a "gotcha" with the gradual replacement scenario. Each
> Insteon
> device is two-way and the transmitters attenuate X-10 signals in the
> same
> manner as two-way X-10 devices do. The more Insteon devices, the
> better the
> Insteon reliability but the bigger the hit on X-10 reliability. It
> depends
> on how many total devices you have but at some point you'll probably
> find
> you need to convert all remaining X-10 devices.
>
> All that said, most of the people using Insteon report good
> reliability
> although some report problems. While Insteon is subject to the same
> signal
> attenuators and noise sources as X-10, filters will fix most
> problems as
> they do for X-10. There are some persistent complainers on the
> Insteon forum
> but I suspect most are from people who really do not understand it.
>
> I think an ESM1 signal meter is almost a necessity. It lets you see
> X-10 and
> Insteon signals (although it cannot interpret Insteon) and measure
> relative
> amplitudes. It can eliminate most of the guesswork.
> AutomatedOutlet.com will
> even loan you one - knowing full well that 98% (my WAG) of the
> loaners turn
> into purchases.
>
>
> http://www.automatedoutlet.com/prod...63&cat=0&page=1
>
> Insteon prices have edged up plus they have apparently discontinued
> some of
> their lower priced "value" lines but I think it is still the best
> choice for
> new installations where the user doesn't want to spend far more for
> hard-wired low voltage control. However, someone who has a large
> X-10
> investment and understands the ins and outs is probably better off
> sticking
> with it.
>
> Given that you've had X-10 problems, you may continue to have them
> with
> Insteon. You probably need to run the the problems down before
> deciding.
>
> Whichever way you go, as you move into the new house, deploy
> switches and
> modules in sub-groups so you can find and fix problems before you
> have a a
> large number of devices. Troubleshooting a limited number of devices
> is
> easier to manage. You'll have lots of time to troubleshoot.
>
> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
> roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-27, 5:25 pm |
| I forgot the smiley after my remark about all the time you'll have. ;)
Take a look at PureBasic. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Mac) and only
costs $99 (you get all three platforms). It won't do DOS but it will do
console apps. It's easy to learn and use but does take a lot of coding since
you need to handle all the things that mose of the "visual" languages handle
for you.
http://www.purebasic.com/
If you want to stick with DOS, PowerBasic (was TurboBasic when Borland
marketed it) still sells a DOS version.
http://powerbasic.com/
Insteon has an SDK but it costs $200 and you don't get much beyond a bit of
hardware and docs. I do not recommend it to anyone other than commercial
operations and even they should buy an even more expensive package that
offers more hand-holding.
There's an oft reported problem that I named "endless dim syndrome" but it
only occurs with RF transceivers. It's most prevalent with TM751s but can
occur with RR501s. It's caused by the powerline radiating the 120kHz bursts
which inductively couples back into the superregenerative RF receiver in the
transceivers.
Some phase couplers are know to create and/or feed "powerline storms" where
the line is flooded with continuous commands. However, I don't recall
Dim/Bright being one of the codes reported. The storms do however monopolize
the powerline, blocking all other commands.
The meaning of the term "wall wart dimmer" eludes me. Do you mean a plug-in
lamp module?
"John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>LOL. I doubt I will have lots of time to troubleshoot. I am building
>the home, mostly myself. This wasn't intentional but it is hard to
>find decent labout at a realistic price around that area.
>
>The worst problem I have is my sunrise halogen that I progressively
>briighten on work mornings. Some days the wall wart dimmer will not
>shut off and I have to unplug it. I have tried different units with
>the same success. I suspected I was pushing the unit's heat rating
>(300W) and got a 200Watt bulb with the same result. Basically there is
>nothing else on the circuit and it appears to work fine in the another
>circuit. I have checked all the electrical connections and suspect
>some kind of resonant tuned circuit in the cable length. My TW523 is
>at the service panel for centralization with a 100' RS-232 connection
>to the computer.
>
>Basically I would also like to get something that will run on a
>Windoze machine with network access to the beast. Currently I can only
>run in DOS and I cannot for the life of me remember how to get all the
>NIC drivers working. Win 3.11 used to set them all up for you and then
>you just dropped the GUI. I wrote my own code for the CM-11 but can't
>get through some of the protocol spec published. AFAIC it just doesn't
>work in spots. On a power blink it needs to be accessed and relaod
>macros or something (been a long time now) and haven't been able to
>make it talk that part of it. I am sure there is all kinds of code and
>drivers out there that are good for an old hack like me to boost his
>starting point.
>
>Is code writing for hacks supported with the Insteon i/f also?
>
>
>"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
>news:4773e7e2.24639250@nntp.fuse.net...
>
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-27, 8:25 pm |
| Wall wart is a term commonly used for AC/DC adapter/battery
eliminators. I may have used it incorrectly but yes. the plug in lamp
dimmers/switches or appliance units that plug into the wall
receptical.
I have no interst in writing code for DOS. I want to get the system
off DOS.
I figured if I could get decent drivers for the various units I could
write my own code using Visual Basic and write my logic using same.
once the subroutines are written it can't be any more cumbersome than
the current HC2000 language I am using now and would give me any
option I could think of instead of being formalized into a fixed
language coommand structure. I have also maxed out the capabilties of
the programme in subroutine calls. Quite an idea with only pulldown
verb, unit and subroutine names but not my style. Saves on typos
though.
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:4774265f.40636281@nntp.fuse.net...
>I forgot the smiley after my remark about all the time you'll have.
>;)
>
> Take a look at PureBasic. It's cross-platform (Windows, Linux, Mac)
> and only
> costs $99 (you get all three platforms). It won't do DOS but it will
> do
> console apps. It's easy to learn and use but does take a lot of
> coding since
> you need to handle all the things that mose of the "visual"
> languages handle
> for you.
>
> http://www.purebasic.com/
>
> If you want to stick with DOS, PowerBasic (was TurboBasic when
> Borland
> marketed it) still sells a DOS version.
>
> http://powerbasic.com/
>
> Insteon has an SDK but it costs $200 and you don't get much beyond a
> bit of
> hardware and docs. I do not recommend it to anyone other than
> commercial
> operations and even they should buy an even more expensive package
> that
> offers more hand-holding.
>
> There's an oft reported problem that I named "endless dim syndrome"
> but it
> only occurs with RF transceivers. It's most prevalent with TM751s
> but can
> occur with RR501s. It's caused by the powerline radiating the 120kHz
> bursts
> which inductively couples back into the superregenerative RF
> receiver in the
> transceivers.
>
> Some phase couplers are know to create and/or feed "powerline
> storms" where
> the line is flooded with continuous commands. However, I don't
> recall
> Dim/Bright being one of the codes reported. The storms do however
> monopolize
> the powerline, blocking all other commands.
>
> The meaning of the term "wall wart dimmer" eludes me. Do you mean a
> plug-in
> lamp module?
>
> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
> roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-28, 9:25 am |
| I'm familiar with "wall wart" for power adapters but your inclusion of
"dimmer" confused me. I wanted to make sure you weren't talking about some
rare, esoteric gizmo.
I've got sample VB code for the CM11A somewhere - it used to be on my web
page but I removed it some time ago. As I recall it was in two versions -
one using direct communications and one using the communications bridge
documented in X-10's help file for their CM11A software. My examples were
just for fundamental stuff, not for downloading timers and macros.
You might want to consider Smarthome's 1132B. It has a simple ASCII
protocol.
http://www.smarthome.com/1132b.html
Scroll to the bottom and there's a link to a Programming Manual.
"John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>Wall wart is a term commonly used for AC/DC adapter/battery
>eliminators. I may have used it incorrectly but yes. the plug in lamp
>dimmers/switches or appliance units that plug into the wall
>receptical.
>
>
>I have no interst in writing code for DOS. I want to get the system
>off DOS.
>
>I figured if I could get decent drivers for the various units I could
>write my own code using Visual Basic and write my logic using same.
>once the subroutines are written it can't be any more cumbersome than
>the current HC2000 language I am using now and would give me any
>option I could think of instead of being formalized into a fixed
>language coommand structure. I have also maxed out the capabilties of
>the programme in subroutine calls. Quite an idea with only pulldown
>verb, unit and subroutine names but not my style. Saves on typos
>though.
>
>
>"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
>news:4774265f.40636281@nntp.fuse.net...
>
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-28, 9:25 am |
| Thanx for that!
I would have used my own TW523 with serial port but I could never find
any protocol docs for it years ago.
This is one of the problems with this stuff. The serial ports are
vanishing and USB is coming in. Try running that 100 feet...LOL This
means you have a computer within a few feet of the transmitter. I have
runs of wiring from my computer to the service panel across a bridge
and to a X10 unit over 200' of wire in my home now. Trouble with the
service panel in the garage in a backsplit!
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:4774daa5.86785640@nntp.fuse.net...
> I'm familiar with "wall wart" for power adapters but your inclusion
> of
> "dimmer" confused me. I wanted to make sure you weren't talking
> about some
> rare, esoteric gizmo.
>
> I've got sample VB code for the CM11A somewhere - it used to be on
> my web
> page but I removed it some time ago. As I recall it was in two
> versions -
> one using direct communications and one using the communications
> bridge
> documented in X-10's help file for their CM11A software. My examples
> were
> just for fundamental stuff, not for downloading timers and macros.
>
> You might want to consider Smarthome's 1132B. It has a simple ASCII
> protocol.
>
> http://www.smarthome.com/1132b.html
>
> Scroll to the bottom and there's a link to a Programming Manual.
>
> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
> roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-28, 1:25 pm |
| Let me search through some old files. I know that I had documentation for at
least one of the TW523 serial adapters at one time. In effect, the 1132B in
serial mode has a built-in RS232 adapter. In TW523 mode, it uses the
standard TW523 TTL interface.
I added the CM11A VB code back to my web page <davehouston.org>. Scroll to
the bottom.
There are numerous and inexpensive USB-Serial adapters that will let you
handle long runs (although maybe not as long as true RS232 with ±12V
levels). This one from ByteRunner only costs $9 and has worked with
everything I've tried it with although I don't have any 100-200' cables to
test long runs.
http://www.byterunner.com/byterunne...act_match=exact
If you stick with X-10, you should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB gizmos.
They're a "bigger hammer" type solution and I prefer to solve the underlying
attenuation or noise problems, which you should be able to do in a new
house, but...
http://jeffvolp.home.att.net/xtb_files.htm
"John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>Thanx for that!
>
>I would have used my own TW523 with serial port but I could never find
>any protocol docs for it years ago.
>
>This is one of the problems with this stuff. The serial ports are
>vanishing and USB is coming in. Try running that 100 feet...LOL This
>means you have a computer within a few feet of the transmitter. I have
>runs of wiring from my computer to the service panel across a bridge
>and to a X10 unit over 200' of wire in my home now. Trouble with the
>service panel in the garage in a backsplit!
>
>"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
>news:4774daa5.86785640@nntp.fuse.net...
>
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-29, 5:25 pm |
| Thanx for all the information. I need to prepare my home for selling
over the next month or so and will not have the time I would like to
have for some time.
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:477530c7.108836468@nntp.fuse.net...
> Let me search through some old files. I know that I had
> documentation for at
> least one of the TW523 serial adapters at one time. In effect, the
> 1132B in
> serial mode has a built-in RS232 adapter. In TW523 mode, it uses the
> standard TW523 TTL interface.
>
> I added the CM11A VB code back to my web page <davehouston.org>.
> Scroll to
> the bottom.
>
> There are numerous and inexpensive USB-Serial adapters that will let
> you
> handle long runs (although maybe not as long as true RS232 with ±12V
> levels). This one from ByteRunner only costs $9 and has worked with
> everything I've tried it with although I don't have any 100-200'
> cables to
> test long runs.
>
> http://www.byterunner.com/byterunne...act_match=exact
>
> If you stick with X-10, you should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB
> gizmos.
> They're a "bigger hammer" type solution and I prefer to solve the
> underlying
> attenuation or noise problems, which you should be able to do in a
> new
> house, but...
>
> http://jeffvolp.home.att.net/xtb_files.htm
>
> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
> roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
| |
| John J. Bengii 2007-12-30, 1:25 pm |
| The old problem is the wall receiver switch. It ceases to work in the
deep cold even from manual X10 controllers. I have changed it a few
times for other units to no avail. Now that's just weird as it is
mounted in the interior wall and should have some heat leakage into
it. Perhaps the condensation?
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:476e3c30.421773765@nntp.fuse.net...
> Batteries lose their "oomph" rapidly as the temperature drops (and
> recover
> when they warm up). A few people have run tests using their freezers
> and
> posted their results. To begin with, the X-10 motion sensors are not
> top
> shelf in terms of quality. There are more costly (but non-X10)
> motion
> detectors designed for outdoor, cold weather use but all have
> problems at
> really low temperatures - 'tis the nature of the beast.
> "John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>
| |
| Robert L Bass 2007-12-30, 8:25 pm |
| "John J. Bengii" wrote:
>
> The old problem is the wall receiver switch. It ceases to work in
> the deep cold even from manual X10 controllers. I have changed it a
> few times for other units to no avail. Now that's just weird as it
> is mounted in the interior wall and should have some heat leakage
> into it. Perhaps the condensation?
It could be condensation, but don't rule out temperature problems
(which can exacerbate condensation) just because it's an inside wall.
Hollow interior walls can sometimes act as chimneys, funneling cool
air from the basement up or even from the attic down if the outside
air is windy. One simple way to check is to remove the switch plate
on a breezy day. Hold a candle or a smoldering wick near the opening
and see if there's any sign of air movement.
You can remedy the problem (assuming that's it) fairly easily by
squirting urethane foam into the wall cavity. The stuff comes in
cans and is intended to block the spread of smoke and fire but it
does a neat job of insulating, too.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Tech Support 941-925-8650
Customer Service 941-232-0791
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
| |
| Dave Houston 2007-12-30, 8:25 pm |
| I do not recall seeing any reports that cold affected wall switches but
there's always a possibility that I've led too sheltered an existence.
What comes to mind is that you may have a seasonal signal attenuator -
something that's only on in colder weather. Or, you might have just the
opposite something that's on in warm weather that couples the signal.
In any case, an ESM1 can eliminate the guesswork.
"John J. Bengii" <nobody@yahoo.calm.dwn> wrote:
>The old problem is the wall receiver switch. It ceases to work in the
>deep cold even from manual X10 controllers. I have changed it a few
>times for other units to no avail. Now that's just weird as it is
>mounted in the interior wall and should have some heat leakage into
>it. Perhaps the condensation?
http://davehouston.net http://davehouston.org
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
|
|
|
|
|