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Home > Archive > Building and Construction > October 2005 > Re: Oriented strand board in the rain?? Bad??
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Re: Oriented strand board in the rain?? Bad??
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| x-no-archive: yes
BP wrote, "Yeah, the trusses are on back order, I agree. Poor planning
on the builder's part or poor reliability from the low bidder. "
It's *notorious* poor planning on our builder's part. Grr.
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kks wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> BP wrote, "Yeah, the trusses are on back order, I agree. Poor planning
> on the builder's part or poor reliability from the low bidder. "
>
>
> It's *notorious* poor planning on our builder's part. Grr.
>
It could well be a back order related to the economy/hurricanes. We
ordered trusses for two additions at the start of framing allowing 10
days to two weeks for framing which is the same lead time for trusses
from our supplier. Trusses have met or beat this lead time for the last
couple years. When we ordered these the truss mfr. said they had been
flooded with orders, attributing it to the above, and were looking at a
ship date 4 weeks out. Not wanting to wait that long I called the two
other manufacturers in the area and they were also 4 weeks out and
stated the same reasons.
I am sure builders, homeowners, etc. are scrambling to get orders in in
hopes to beat any major price increases and availability issues. OSB
here in central WV is up 6.00 a sheet from pre-katrina. Thankfully we
bought 3 lifts when it was at the low. Lead times and delivery charges
have gone up as well. We have since adjusted however we missed the
starting gun on those two in the first couple weeks.
Mark
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> Thankfully we bought 3 lifts when it was at the low.
Careful it doesnt 'walk away' from the jobsite like ours did.
I sprayed the ends with a proprietary color of paint for ID and had the
framers screw down the top 10-12 sheets in the pile with 4" screws each
nite.
Dickheads couldnt find the 'squaredrive' screwheads in the dark and werent
set up to lift 10 sheets at a time,
R
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| Gio Medici 2005-10-11, 8:21 pm |
| M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
>....I am sure builders, homeowners, etc. are scrambling to get orders in in
>hopes to beat any major price increases and availability issues. OSB
>here in central WV is up 6.00 a sheet from pre-katrina. Thankfully we
>bought 3 lifts when it was at the low. Lead times and delivery charges
>have gone up as well. We have since adjusted however we missed the
>starting gun on those two in the first couple weeks.
>
>Mark
So, is this the excuse needed to keep hyperinflating house prices?
$6 a sheet more for OSB makes it what... $20 ? Is this temporary or
permanent? How about other materials? Have your prices been raised on
homes completed or in the works? Should I hold on to my inventory for
a few months?
No pressure.
Gio
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| Gio Medici wrote:
> M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> So, is this the excuse needed to keep hyperinflating house prices?
I can only speak for our business and our local area but for the most
part we have only seen contractors and suppliers just starting to pass
on increases to the customer and our suppliers to us. Until a couple
months ago most, including us, had been trying to eat the $3.00/gal.
fuel costs, etc., trying to hold to quoted prices even though some
material had drastically increased over the past year or two. Our
lumberyard is still delivering free however our salesmen take the hit on
that one as the del. charge comes directly off their bottom line should
they choose to give it to the contractor. How long that will continue no
one knows. When it stops, it will have to be passed on. As I stated in
another thread truss manufacturers, distributors of things like
engineered lumber, block, and so on, have started to include steep drop
charges even for full truckload quantities to the jobsite.
Honestly I have to applaud the trucking industry who have on mass
absorbed much of the cost increases due to fuel prices for well over a
year now. I am sure a lot of independents have really tightened their
belts. Even back when we were in the low $2/gal. price for gasoline the
shipping industry was being hammered $0.50 - $0.75 / gal. more, a
complete scam as diesel is less refined but keeping consumer confidence
high was more important to the administration.
Our tact has been to merely pass on the increases for materials to our
customers as we are not in business to keep their prices low buy paying
the increases out of our pockets.
> $6 a sheet more for OSB makes it what... $20 ?
Here it makes it 15.00. A couple weeks ago it hit a record low for the
past two years being down around $9-$10 with a 256 sheet limit per sale.
> Is this temporary or
> permanent?
If I knew I would be a far richer man. Permanence has no bearing on my
business as I have jobs underway that need the material. The customer is
surely not going to say "lets wait a while and see what happens".
> How about other materials?
Other materials have been moving as well. Masonry products are going
through the roof. Vinyl products are supposedly going to increase
markedly this month or so I have been hearing. Other materials have been
up and down. Lumber here has held pretty steady and even dropped a bit
in some cases.
> Have your prices been raised on
> homes completed or in the works?
Our quote states that material costs are those at the time the project
was quoted and should those material costs rise or fall during the
course of construction so will the cost to the customer. We dont pass on
minor fluctuations however when sheathing/subfloor costs for a building
increase 1500.00 we cant eat it. Likewise if we quote a project at 16.00
a sheet and the price falls to 9.00 we issue a credit. This was the case
for a job which will be done with some of the three lifts.
Should I hold on to my inventory for
> a few months?
Not sure what your getting at.
> No pressure.
>
> Gio
>
Mark
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| 7 to 10 weeks lead time on trusses up her in northwest
"M&S" <no@no.com> wrote in message
news:lgB2f.12946$q1.9310@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
> kks wrote:
>
> It could well be a back order related to the economy/hurricanes. We
> ordered trusses for two additions at the start of framing allowing 10 days
> to two weeks for framing which is the same lead time for trusses from our
> supplier. Trusses have met or beat this lead time for the last couple
> years. When we ordered these the truss mfr. said they had been flooded
> with orders, attributing it to the above, and were looking at a ship date
> 4 weeks out. Not wanting to wait that long I called the two other
> manufacturers in the area and they were also 4 weeks out and stated the
> same reasons.
>
> I am sure builders, homeowners, etc. are scrambling to get orders in in
> hopes to beat any major price increases and availability issues. OSB here
> in central WV is up 6.00 a sheet from pre-katrina. Thankfully we bought 3
> lifts when it was at the low. Lead times and delivery charges have gone up
> as well. We have since adjusted however we missed the starting gun on
> those two in the first couple weeks.
>
> Mark
>
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| Gio Medici 2005-10-12, 11:21 am |
| M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
>
> I can only speak for our business and our local area but for the most
>part we have only seen contractors and suppliers just starting to pass
>on increases to the customer and our suppliers to us. Until a couple
>months ago most, including us, had been trying to eat the $3.00/gal.
>fuel costs, etc., trying to hold to quoted prices even though some
>material had drastically increased over the past year or two. Our
>lumberyard is still delivering free however our salesmen take the hit on
>that one as the del. charge comes directly off their bottom line should
>they choose to give it to the contractor. How long that will continue no
>one knows. When it stops, it will have to be passed on. As I stated in
>another thread truss manufacturers, distributors of things like
>engineered lumber, block, and so on, have started to include steep drop
>charges even for full truckload quantities to the jobsite.
> Honestly I have to applaud the trucking industry who have on mass
>absorbed much of the cost increases due to fuel prices for well over a
>year now. I am sure a lot of independents have really tightened their
>belts. Even back when we were in the low $2/gal. price for gasoline the
>shipping industry was being hammered $0.50 - $0.75 / gal. more, a
>complete scam as diesel is less refined but keeping consumer confidence
>high was more important to the administration.
> Our tact has been to merely pass on the increases for materials to our
>customers as we are not in business to keep their prices low buy paying
>the increases out of our pockets.
>
>
>Here it makes it 15.00. A couple weeks ago it hit a record low for the
>past two years being down around $9-$10 with a 256 sheet limit per sale.
>
Here along the AZ NM border it was $13. After Katrina there was "no
OSB from the factory until further notice". Contractors made big
orders ahead.
>Other materials have been moving as well. Masonry products are going
>through the roof. Vinyl products are supposedly going to increase
>markedly this month or so I have been hearing. Other materials have been
>up and down. Lumber here has held pretty steady and even dropped a bit
>in some cases.
We have had big masonry rises and shortages here also. (PreKatrina),
partly due to a Mexican tarrif dispute. Lots of cement is made in
Mexico; and a lot of energy used in making it. Then there's the
shipping.
> Should I hold on to my inventory for
>
>Not sure what your getting at.
Prices here for land, materials and houses, were going up quickly even
before Katrina. Materials are now going up even faster. I don't think
that energy costs have been factored correctly into inflation figures.
Like you said, some increase delivery charges, some charge more; and
who knows? Now after Katrina apparently there's a need for 2 million
new homes. Can the construction material suppliers even meet the
demand? There had been much talk pre-Katrina of 'bursting the
speculative housing bubble', but no more. Can the FED raise interest
rates much in these circumstances to stem the inflation? I'm guessing
that all this will be overhyped into much higher house prices, just
like gasoline. I wouldn't be in a hurry to dump any spec property.
Gio
| |
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| Gio Medici wrote:
> M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here along the AZ NM border it was $13. After Katrina there was "no
> OSB from the factory until further notice". Contractors made big
> orders ahead.
>
>
>
>
> We have had big masonry rises and shortages here also. (PreKatrina),
> partly due to a Mexican tarrif dispute. Lots of cement is made in
> Mexico; and a lot of energy used in making it. Then there's the
> shipping.
>
>
>
>
> Prices here for land, materials and houses, were going up quickly even
> before Katrina. Materials are now going up even faster. I don't think
> that energy costs have been factored correctly into inflation figures.
> Like you said, some increase delivery charges, some charge more; and
> who knows? Now after Katrina apparently there's a need for 2 million
> new homes. Can the construction material suppliers even meet the
> demand? There had been much talk pre-Katrina of 'bursting the
> speculative housing bubble', but no more. Can the FED raise interest
> rates much in these circumstances to stem the inflation? I'm guessing
> that all this will be overhyped into much higher house prices, just
> like gasoline. I wouldn't be in a hurry to dump any spec property.
>
> Gio
I personally dont see how it can go much higher but I have said that
numerous times before and it has none the less gone up. It amazes me
every time I see the local news reporter at the gas station saying "gas
is 3.10 a gallon, has this made you reconsider driving a hummer?" and
the woman/guy pumping the gas replies "no". It would seem with that kind
of cash flow and the mentality that no matter what the cost I am not
going to, or dont need to, reduce we are not going to see a slow down
any time soon.
Last year we put an addition and two car garage on for a real estate
agent and it happens we just saw him today. He has been seeing a marked
reduction in buyer confidence and therefore closings for months. I cant
see how, with all thats going on, there wont be a slow down.
As for the FED being able to rebuild Katrina, I really dont know. One
would think with all the donations it would be a more reasonable task
however no one ever seems to know how all those resources are allocated.
And a couple million homes is a tremendous task. I have heard rumors of
the gvt. locking in pricing of certain construction items for the
rebuild. Associated with these rumors I hear lots of questions if the
lower prices for these items will be passed on to the new homeowners or
absorbed by the home builders and suppliers as profit.
As a side note, there are a couple people from our local area who are in
the disaster area currently as FEMA contractors. Basically what they are
doing is going to homes, surveying the damage, and submitting a claim to
FEMA nightly via the internet/laptop from their hotels. They are
basically working as FEMA claims adjusters. One of the guys wives told
me the other day that her husband has earned 15,000.00 since he went to
the region (about a month). I am sure this includes travel time, mileage
on a personal vehicle, perdium for staying expensese and so forth. I
think this is the way you will see much of the money go, to beurocratic
overpayment. Business as usual. Hearing this I thought, what am I doing
building homes when I could go and make 180k for the next year or even
60k for a half year but its not my bag.
Its hard to know what is truth and what is myth/rumor but I am sure
there are a lot of people making a tremendous amount of profit off these
two storms.
Mark
| |
| Gio Medici 2005-10-12, 10:21 pm |
| M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>I personally dont see how it can go much higher but I have said that
>numerous times before and it has none the less gone up. It amazes me
>every time I see the local news reporter at the gas station saying "gas
>is 3.10 a gallon, has this made you reconsider driving a hummer?" and
>the woman/guy pumping the gas replies "no". It would seem with that kind
>of cash flow and the mentality that no matter what the cost I am not
>going to, or dont need to, reduce we are not going to see a slow down
>any time soon.
>
>Last year we put an addition and two car garage on for a real estate
>agent and it happens we just saw him today. He has been seeing a marked
>reduction in buyer confidence and therefore closings for months. I cant
>see how, with all thats going on, there wont be a slow down.
>
>As for the FED being able to rebuild Katrina, I really dont know. One
>would think with all the donations it would be a more reasonable task
>however no one ever seems to know how all those resources are allocated.
>And a couple million homes is a tremendous task. I have heard rumors of
>the gvt. locking in pricing of certain construction items for the
>rebuild. Associated with these rumors I hear lots of questions if the
>lower prices for these items will be passed on to the new homeowners or
>absorbed by the home builders and suppliers as profit.
>
>As a side note, there are a couple people from our local area who are in
>the disaster area currently as FEMA contractors. Basically what they are
>doing is going to homes, surveying the damage, and submitting a claim to
>FEMA nightly via the internet/laptop from their hotels. They are
>basically working as FEMA claims adjusters. One of the guys wives told
>me the other day that her husband has earned 15,000.00 since he went to
>the region (about a month). I am sure this includes travel time, mileage
>on a personal vehicle, perdium for staying expensese and so forth. I
>think this is the way you will see much of the money go, to beurocratic
>overpayment. Business as usual. Hearing this I thought, what am I doing
>building homes when I could go and make 180k for the next year or even
>60k for a half year but its not my bag.
>
>Its hard to know what is truth and what is myth/rumor but I am sure
>there are a lot of people making a tremendous amount of profit off these
>two storms.
>
>Mark
The working guy just getting by should be crapping his pants about
now. Without easy money in the form of inheritance or gains on
previous property how do you afford even an average place? But
apparently a significant percentage of homes are being bought as an
investment, and some of those investors might just as well go on
bidding stuff up with easy money rather than fold the hand. And there
is a lot of money in the hands of those who have done well, and
retired folks looking for a safe investment.
My neighbor is a FEMA contractor also, but I'm not interested in
spending any time in Katrinaville. That part of the country sucks
even when times are good. There are some real dim bulbs getting big
contracts to make light down there. OSHA will be busy <G>
Between the huge budget deficits, trade imbalance, and real commodity
shortages it seems like inflation has to be higher than claimed.
Gio
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| Steven 2005-10-17, 10:21 pm |
| >>"Gio Medici" <giomedici@sumware.com> wrote in message
Excuse needed? I don't need an excuse. You sound as if you think that a
6.00 per sheet increase in OSB is insignificant. On average, I use 325
sheets per house, which equates to an increase of $2086.50 including sales
tax. I average twenty of these homes per year, which equates to $41,730.
May be insignificant to you, but it cuts into the bottom line for me. (BTW
ours has gone up $9 / sheet) Add in the extra $10/yd for concrete that we
are now paying in our area, and that adds another $1600 per house. I could
go on and on. In order to stay in business, my margin has actually
decreased to compensate for the surge in material prices.
S.
"Gio Medici" <giomedici@sumware.com> wrote in message
news:8mdok1d2p6ddrbfaqbu22ga2evc0siv3a6@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
> So, is this the excuse needed to keep hyperinflating house prices?
> $6 a sheet more for OSB makes it what... $20 ? Is this temporary or
> permanent? How about other materials? Have your prices been raised on
> homes completed or in the works? Should I hold on to my inventory for
> a few months?
>
> No pressure.
>
> Gio
>
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