Building and Construction

Author

Land clearing

Clay

2006-03-27, 2:21 pm

Hi all,

I have 14 acres of wooded (mostly pine, young oaks) land in Mississippi.
It is on the gulf coast and since Hurricane Katrina, prices of
everything have gone thru the roof. Lots of folk have come into town
and will rip you off as quick as they can. Some locals as well. Others
will be reasonable. Problem is knowing which one is which.

I want to clear the land (thin the forrest to about 1/4 of the trees I
have now) and build a house on the land. It is flat but did not flood
during the hurricane and is far enough inland that storm surge is not a
problem. Everything within a quarter mile of the beach is gone now so I
think this will be a good place to build.

I intend to keep the whole 14 acres but plan to put my home on the
front 5 acres just in case I ever decide to subdivide. I want to thin
out most of the pines and keep any good oak or magnolia trees we find.
I plan to cut a driveway from the front to the back (300 feet) and
clear at least 2 acres around the homesite almost completly as I don't
want a tree falling on my house during the next big storm. There is an
overgrown ditch that surronds the property. The back and one side have
trees that have grown up in it. I figure I need to clear the ditch all
around for drainage and make sure it is cut properly. I will need to
bring in dirt/clay for the road and homesite.

I have received quotes to clear the land that range from 6.5K per acre
(stack and burn trees plus $15 cubic yard extra for dirt) to $80/hr for
use of a trackhoe and operator and $60/hr for a bull dozer and operator
and 7.50 per cubic yard for fill dirt to be delivered and spread.

It seems to me that the hourly rate is much more reasonable. People
have told me that a decent operator can clear a couple of acres in a
day or so and from just driving by areas being cleared, this seems to
be right.

However, I know little about what heavy equipment can do. The guy I
plan to get the equipment from a local fellow with a good reputation
for honesty. But he just sends a guy out with his equipment. It is up
to me to tell him what I want and to tell the operator what I want
done. His trackhoe is a 300 something or other (Horsepower??) and folk
have told me this will pull up any tree I have. I don't know what kind
of bulldozer he has other than it is big and has wide tracks. Also,
does anyone know how much dirt should go for down here and how to
determine how much dirt I need for a road?

Can anyone tell me what kind of work a trackhoe is good for and what
kind of work a bulldozer is good for. I imagine I will need both at one
point or the other but I don't want to have a trackhoe out doing work
that a bulldozer would do faster or vice versa.

I recognize that I have a lot to learn but my thoughts are that the
difference in pricing is such that I can afford to use this to learn. I
am able to find people to do work for me on an hourly basis but I need
to be able to tell them what I need done and be able to judge when it
is done properly.

I need to learn how to effectively use heavy equipment and how to build
a road right. I will have a ton of other questions later though.

thanks,

clay

--

Grumman-581

2006-03-27, 3:21 pm

"Clay" <clay@his.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ek85pwxj013000@news.his.com...
<snip>

You might be able to get the pines cleared for free by one of the wood
harvesters (lumber, pulp wood), depending upon the size of them... There is
also a company that is even taking the hurricane damaged trees and limbs,
chipping them up, and selling them to Europe for their power plants...

Although you don't want a tree to be falling on your house, just remember
that by giving up the shade of nearby trees, your air-conditioning bills
will run higher... Also, a house looks a lot better when surrounded by
mature trees... Personally, I would try to keep all the mature trees if at
all possible and design the house to fit the lot...

With regards to the ditch that surrounds the property, it sounds like you've
got the makings for a moat... All you need now is to deepen it, ensure it
stays full of water, and add a few gators for disposal of unwanted house
guests / visitors... <evil-grin>

Since you have a pretty decent sized lot, one thing that you might want to
consider instead of having fill dirt hauled in would be to landscape your
existing terrain to get the fill dirt from there... The ditch that surrounds
the property can be widened and deepened and the dirt used to elevate other
areas of the property... Another option might be to have all the fill dirt
come from one area such that when they get through, you have a pond... From
an esthetics standpoint, ponds are kind of like swimming pools -- free form
shaped ones look better than rectangular ones...

One other thing to consider given that you live on the Gulf Coast is the
foundation style for the home... Personally, I believe that if you're
building a house from scratch around here, it should be elevated above the
surrounding terrain instead of a slab-on-grade construction... As Tropical
Storm Allison showed us, we're just one slow moving tropical storm away from
flooding... Putting a house up on concrete piers does not add that much to
the cost of the house considering the advantages that it gives you... The
first "floor" might still have a slab, but it would probably just be the
thickness of a driveway since it would be used only for parking cars under
your house or perhaps as a workshop for storage of your lawn and garden
equipment... Look at some of the raised Acadian style homes for an example
of this type of construction... The only thing that I might change from this
would be use of CMUs filled with concrete and rebar for all wall
construction... Put enough concrete in your home and you can laugh at the
next Katrina coming your way... It is possible to have an elevated concrete
slab, so a wood framed house is not required just because you elevate it...

clay

2006-03-27, 4:21 pm

Grumman-581 wrote:

> "Clay" <clay@his.com> wrote in message
> news:xn0ek85pwxj013000@news.his.com...
> <snip>
>
> You might be able to get the pines cleared for free by one of the wood
> harvesters (lumber, pulp wood), depending upon the size of them...
> There is also a company that is even taking the hurricane damaged
> trees and limbs, chipping them up, and selling them to Europe for
> their power plants...
>
> Although you don't want a tree to be falling on your house, just
> remember that by giving up the shade of nearby trees, your
> air-conditioning bills will run higher... Also, a house looks a lot
> better when surrounded by mature trees... Personally, I would try to
> keep all the mature trees if at all possible and design the house to
> fit the lot...
>
> With regards to the ditch that surrounds the property, it sounds like
> you've got the makings for a moat... All you need now is to deepen
> it, ensure it stays full of water, and add a few gators for disposal
> of unwanted house guests / visitors... <evil-grin>
>
> Since you have a pretty decent sized lot, one thing that you might
> want to consider instead of having fill dirt hauled in would be to
> landscape your existing terrain to get the fill dirt from there...
> The ditch that surrounds the property can be widened and deepened and
> the dirt used to elevate other areas of the property... Another
> option might be to have all the fill dirt come from one area such
> that when they get through, you have a pond... From an esthetics
> standpoint, ponds are kind of like swimming pools -- free form shaped
> ones look better than rectangular ones...
>
> One other thing to consider given that you live on the Gulf Coast is
> the foundation style for the home... Personally, I believe that if
> you're building a house from scratch around here, it should be
> elevated above the surrounding terrain instead of a slab-on-grade
> construction... As Tropical Storm Allison showed us, we're just one
> slow moving tropical storm away from flooding... Putting a house up
> on concrete piers does not add that much to the cost of the house
> considering the advantages that it gives you... The first "floor"
> might still have a slab, but it would probably just be the thickness
> of a driveway since it would be used only for parking cars under your
> house or perhaps as a workshop for storage of your lawn and garden
> equipment... Look at some of the raised Acadian style homes for an
> example of this type of construction... The only thing that I might
> change from this would be use of CMUs filled with concrete and rebar
> for all wall construction... Put enough concrete in your home and you
> can laugh at the next Katrina coming your way... It is possible to
> have an elevated concrete slab, so a wood framed house is not
> required just because you elevate it...

Thanks for the reply.

I have not had any luck getting a pulpwood company to come clear the
trees. So many thousands of trees were knocked down by the hurricane
that they have all the work they can handle.

I agree with you about trees around the house. I may leave a few...just
gunshy after the last hurricane. If a tree could fall on your house it
pretty much did during Katrina.

I don't want a pond on my land. Lots of guys do. To me, though, it is
just a hole waiting for misquitos to move in. I like the idea about
using my own dirt though. I just am not sure if I need more of that
redclay type dirt for a road and foundation. My dirt is black. I THINK
it does not pack as good as the clay type dirt but that is something I
should look into.

Building up off the ground on stilts is not an option for me.
My wife and I both have really bad knees and do not want to have to
climb stairs to get in the house. We are building a single story home
just for that reason. We do want to get up off the ground a bit though.
I was thinking of having a chain-wall type foundation. This would get
us off the ground a few feet and just have steps to get in the front
door. Do you have any thoughts as to how a chainwall compares to a slab
or to stilts? Also, what does CMSs mean? I defintely want something
solid.

clay

--

Grumman-581

2006-03-27, 5:21 pm

"clay" <clays_dna@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ek8945125j8w000@news.his.com...
> I have not had any luck getting a pulpwood company to come clear the
> trees. So many thousands of trees were knocked down by the hurricane
> that they have all the work they can handle.

Well, it's not like we need much in the way of heating here on the Gulf
Coast, but remember, if you let the wood season for a summer, you can even
use pine as firewood... I knew a guy back in Slidell that did that and he
said that his research was that as long as it has had at least a full summer
to dry / season, you don't get a problem with cresote deposits in the
chimney... I suspect that you have more trees than you would want for
firewood though...

> I agree with you about trees around the house. I may leave a few...just
> gunshy after the last hurricane. If a tree could fall on your house it
> pretty much did during Katrina.

The house that I owned in Slidell came out OK after Katrina... A few limbs
down in the yard, but that is to be expected... It had an assortment of live
oaks and pines near the house... Some of the pines had obviously survived
lightning strikes over the years, but they were still alive... Pine trees
seem to make good lightning rods...

> I don't want a pond on my land. Lots of guys do. To me, though, it is
> just a hole waiting for misquitos to move in.

Awh, come on, we live on the Gulf Coast... It's not like there's anything we
can do to *increase* the numbers of mosquitos around here... <grin>

> I like the idea about using my own dirt though. I just am
> not sure if I need more of that redclay type dirt for a road
> and foundation. My dirt is black. I THINK it does not
> pack as good as the clay type dirt but that is something I
> should look into.

The black dirt is probably just the topsoil... Once you dig down a bit,
you'll probably find the red clay soil that you're probably thinking of...

> Building up off the ground on stilts is not an option for me.
> My wife and I both have really bad knees and do not want to have to
> climb stairs to get in the house.

Some of the raised Acadian styles that I've seen have areas reserved for
small elevators... People build the houses, but leave an area that can be
retrofitted with a small lift when they get older and the stairs become a
problem... I especially like the raised houses since they give a person a
lot of storage space for their toys (cars, boats, ATVs, etc)... Just
think... If you're building a 3000 sq-ft house, you also get a 3000 sq-ft
garage out of it for minimal extra cost...

> Do you have any thoughts as to how a chainwall compares to a slab
> or to stilts?

The main difference is going to be in a flooding situation where there is a
lot of water movement... Putting the house up on piles / stilts will allow
the water to run underneath the house without putting as much stress on it
as would happen with an enclosed area like you are considering...

> Also, what does CMSs mean? I defintely want something
> solid.

It's CMUs, not CMSs... Concrete Masonry Units... Sometimes called concrete
blocks, cinder blocks, etc... Normally 8x8x16 in dimension... Filling them
with concrete and rebar that is tied to your slab gives you a reinforced
concrete structure that can handle most anything that you'll see from a
hurricane and perhaps even from most tornados... The limiting factor would
then be your roof... Most houses that I see that use CMUs still resort to
stick frame construction for the roofs, so they are the weak link in the
system... I have seen some houses build in South Florida that used poured
concrete roofs... Basically, it depends upon whether you plan on this house
being the last house in which you will ever live and how many years you
expect that to be... If you plan on selling it after a few years, it might
not sell for as much money as you put into it since housing prices tend to
be determined more by square footage than by quality of construction... It
should make for a good selling point and sell quicker though...

There's a company VOBB (http://www.vobb.com) that makes some dry stack CMUs
6" thick, 6" high, and 6, 12, and 18 inches wide that looks interesting...
They don't have a local distributor for Houston, so I haven't had a chance
to try them out and as such cannot make a personal experience based
recomendtion for them... There is also a technique of using standard 8x8x16
CMUs and instead of mortaring the joints, using a surface bonding cement to
hold everything together... Basically it's like a stucco coat over the
blocks from what I've been able to gather... Regardless of which CMU
construction method that you use, I would seriously suggest filling *every*
CMU void with concrete and rebar... Basically, you're desiging your whole
house to be a safe house instead of just a single safe room...

Of course, while you're at it, you might as well make an elevated CMU
protected area for a generator for when the next hurricane comes through...
It's not a question of IF, but rather WHEN...

Budweiser

2006-03-27, 8:21 pm

"Clay" <clay@his.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ek85pwxj013000@news.his.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I have 14 acres of wooded (mostly pine, young oaks) land in Mississippi.
> It is on the gulf coast and since Hurricane Katrina, prices of
> everything have gone thru the roof. Lots of folk have come into town
> and will rip you off as quick as they can. Some locals as well. Others
> will be reasonable. Problem is knowing which one is which.
>
> I want to clear the land (thin the forrest to about 1/4 of the trees I
> have now) and build a house on the land. It is flat but did not flood
> during the hurricane and is far enough inland that storm surge is not a
> problem. Everything within a quarter mile of the beach is gone now so I
> think this will be a good place to build.
>
> I intend to keep the whole 14 acres but plan to put my home on the
> front 5 acres just in case I ever decide to subdivide. I want to thin
> out most of the pines and keep any good oak or magnolia trees we find.
> I plan to cut a driveway from the front to the back (300 feet) and
> clear at least 2 acres around the homesite almost completly as I don't
> want a tree falling on my house during the next big storm. There is an
> overgrown ditch that surronds the property. The back and one side have
> trees that have grown up in it. I figure I need to clear the ditch all
> around for drainage and make sure it is cut properly. I will need to
> bring in dirt/clay for the road and homesite.
>
> I have received quotes to clear the land that range from 6.5K per acre
> (stack and burn trees plus $15 cubic yard extra for dirt) to $80/hr for
> use of a trackhoe and operator and $60/hr for a bull dozer and operator
> and 7.50 per cubic yard for fill dirt to be delivered and spread.
>
> It seems to me that the hourly rate is much more reasonable. People
> have told me that a decent operator can clear a couple of acres in a
> day or so and from just driving by areas being cleared, this seems to
> be right.
>
> However, I know little about what heavy equipment can do. The guy I
> plan to get the equipment from a local fellow with a good reputation
> for honesty. But he just sends a guy out with his equipment. It is up
> to me to tell him what I want and to tell the operator what I want
> done. His trackhoe is a 300 something or other (Horsepower??) and folk
> have told me this will pull up any tree I have. I don't know what kind
> of bulldozer he has other than it is big and has wide tracks. Also,
> does anyone know how much dirt should go for down here and how to
> determine how much dirt I need for a road?
>
> Can anyone tell me what kind of work a trackhoe is good for and what
> kind of work a bulldozer is good for. I imagine I will need both at one
> point or the other but I don't want to have a trackhoe out doing work
> that a bulldozer would do faster or vice versa.
>
> I recognize that I have a lot to learn but my thoughts are that the
> difference in pricing is such that I can afford to use this to learn. I
> am able to find people to do work for me on an hourly basis but I need
> to be able to tell them what I need done and be able to judge when it
> is done properly.
>
> I need to learn how to effectively use heavy equipment and how to build
> a road right. I will have a ton of other questions later though.

>
> thanks,
>
> clay
>
>
> --
>

Think a bit lateral here please---go to your local machine mart and buy a
couple of chainsaws and a couple of spare chains---some chain oil and a
resharp kit would also come in handy.
The scary bit now---fire the saw up,lop trees allday(or untill you give
up)--you now know what you consider to be a days work,well atleast it is a
benchmark.,and from this you can dictate what you expect to be done per
day --no arguements"i can do this ,this is what you do etc".

You are now a contractor.

There must be a few lads at your local beer selling place that enjoy a bit
of cash in hand work--employ as your cash dictates,and either stack logs for
resale,or burn the the lot --your choice.

Bulldozers push things around and generally make a mess,but start a small
fire and point a dozer at your waste trees--big heap--big fire --all
gone --job done------These are not surgical instruments--baseballbats if you
get my drift.
Unsure what you mean by a "trackhoe"---if it is a ground ripper/break up
piece of kit----nail it on the back of the dozer,the dozer pushes trees to
the fire first,rips and regulates the ground whilst waiting for the fire to
"subside"

Your last statement about how to use "effectively" heavy equipment is almost
a licence to print money.
Quantify the task to be done,get that done proffesionally,send the details
out to all companies that may be interested and get them to bid--bin the
lowest two as they will have forgotten to include some items,bin the top two
as they are overpricing as they do not want the job---find one in the middle
you like the name of or the receptionist sounds cute,cut a deal.

NEVER NEVER NEVER employ on a hour basis,get a price for the job you are
prepared to pay and go with it.

For your own sake i think you should employ someone to place the work on
your behalf.
If i want a car fixed i get a mechanic,a letter typed a secretary,a nice
meal -a chef---understand???

Jonny

2006-03-28, 10:21 am

Consider 50 feet plus the height of the tree regarding clearance around
anything you build, your house yard area, and private road frontage.

You need to put something down stable for a road. I used road base and 1"
gravel. You need about 6 yards of road base per 100' of road. Road area
needs to be prepped with a scraping, level of course. Road base needs to be
compressed after wetting down. A good mechanized roller is best, have seen
some do with a loaded down pickup truck (cheap and takes a long time). Put
the gravel over the road base while its wet and compress again. If you
avoid compressing, the material will tend to wander and develop potholes
quickly.
--
Jonny
"Clay" <clay@his.com> wrote in message
news:xn0ek85pwxj013000@news.his.com...

clays_dna

2006-03-28, 2:21 pm

Jonny wrote:

> Consider 50 feet plus the height of the tree regarding clearance
> around anything you build, your house yard area, and private road
> frontage.
>
> You need to put something down stable for a road. I used road base
> and 1" gravel. You need about 6 yards of road base per 100' of road.
> Road area needs to be prepped with a scraping, level of course. Road
> base needs to be compressed after wetting down. A good mechanized
> roller is best, have seen some do with a loaded down pickup truck
> (cheap and takes a long time). Put the gravel over the road base
> while its wet and compress again. If you avoid compressing, the
> material will tend to wander and develop potholes quickly.

Thanks for the good info.
Sounds like just the recipie for what I need.

--

LinkBot