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caulking interior window and door trim
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| campn4fun@adelphia.net 2006-04-10, 10:21 pm |
| We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
betty
| |
|
| its always a radius, never square, now if the trim is too far from the wall
and the caulk has shrunk, then they might need to add more, but if the job
looks nice then leave it alone, you will do massive damage to the walls and
trim. if you try to remove it..if that was your only concern, not bad....
<campn4fun@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1144715165.057184.237940@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
> disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
> baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
> wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
> is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
> tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
> there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
> when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
> the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
> painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
> are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
> concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
> have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
> want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
> without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
> concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
> to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
> could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
> What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
> painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
> betty
>
| |
| Al Bundy 2006-04-11, 12:21 am |
| campn4fun@adelphia.net wrote in news:1144715165.057184.237940
@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
> disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
> baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
> wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
> is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
> tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
> there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
> when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
> the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
> painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
> are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
> concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
> have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
> want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
> without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
> concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
> to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
> could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
> What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
> painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
> betty
>
> My issue is the caulking is concave,
My first thought is why is it not flat againt the wall to start with?!
The trim gets nailed through the drywall to the rough opening studs. The
studs should be flat. The drywall is screwed to the studs. Then the
drywall is flat. The trim sits on the drywall nailed to the studs. So why
are there gaps? This is new construction.
Stained oak trim does not sound like something that is going on some
"good enough" econo hack house.
> Our builder said all homes are constructed this way.
Builder is full of shit. Him saying that is what would piss me off the
most. Maybe all HIS homes are this way.
| |
| TakenEvent 2006-04-11, 1:21 am |
|
<campn4fun@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1144715165.057184.237940@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
> disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
> baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
> wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
> is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
> tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
> there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
> when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
> the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
> painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
> are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
> concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
> have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
> want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
> without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
> concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
> to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
> could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
> What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
> painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
If the gap between the trim and the wall is large enough, two applications
of caulk may be necessary. Caulk shrinks when it dries, but excessive
shrinkage due to large gaps between the trim and the wall is easily noticed
and should be fixed. I don't know why in your case the gaps are so big in
so many places, nor why the painter didn't try to fill the gaps better.
It's usually the cabinetry or crown that requires extra caulk - not the
casing and base. Sometimes poor caulking technique will lead to excessive
shrinkage, i.e. the painter may not have filled the gaps very well or may
have wiped away too much caulk when smoothing it.
When the walls are painted, the trim should be taped so that the caulk can
be painted the color of the wall. This is obvious when dealing with stained
trim, but many painters don't seem to follow the same logic with painted
trim. That is how it's possible to paint a straight line with
less-than-perfect caulk, as the trim establishes the visual straight line
and avoids the problem of the wall paint getting under the tape and pooling
in any concavity in the caulk line.
Historically, stained trimwork has frequently not been caulked to the wall;
the walls were painted before the woodwork went up. Since the woodwork is
dark, the gap between the wood and the wall is barely noticeable. With
painted trim, which is usually some variation of white, the gap shows.
These days, stained trim goes on before the walls are painted more often
than not, and needs to be caulked to avoid what I call "bridges" - spots
where the wall paint bridges over to the trim.
I'd also like to note that the colored latex caulks are of a lesser quality
than many of the white caulks. You'll notice that the latex caulks with
55-year or lifetime warranties don't usually come in colors. The exterior
oil base caulks are the exception. Your brown caulk may very well have
shrunk more than a quality white caulk might have. I recommend
Sherwin-XXXXXXXX' 1100A. With stained trim I often use clear paintable
caulk so that the caulk doesn't show in any gaps in the joints of the trim
that might get a little excess caulk in them. I try to avoid colored caulks
as much as possible.
I once painted a house using colored caulk - which proceeded to fail within
3 months. The techs from SW replaced it FOC with 1100A, and I've stuck with
that ever since.
| |
| Midwest Div 2006-04-11, 8:21 pm |
| It's common that trim does not fit perfectly tight, most builders don't try
to calc so I imagine yours is attempting to give you a better job. Most
often what I have seen isn't caulk but a brown (or whatever) colored putty
stick (it's a wax actually.) If that's what he used, you (or whoever) can
just run a thin putty knife at the seam and pull it out. (If it's actually
putty, a safety razor used for painting would probably be necessary.)
Reason that the trim doesn't fit perfect is due to what's under the drywall,
hangers, framing not made perfectly flush, that sort of thing. (Course it
could be sloppy workmanship, but if all you have to complain about is putty,
.... feel lucky. Home construction is ALWAYS a compromise between human
efforts and an ideal.)
<campn4fun@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1144715165.057184.237940@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
> disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
> baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
> wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
> is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
> tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
> there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
> when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
> the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
> painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
> are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
> concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
> have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
> want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
> without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
> concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
> to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
> could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
> What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
> painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
> betty
>
| |
| Roarmeister 2006-04-11, 9:21 pm |
| On 10 Apr 2006 17:26:05 -0700, campn4fun@adelphia.net wrote:
>We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
>disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
>baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
>wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
>is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
>tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
>there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
>when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
>the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
>painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
>are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
>concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
>have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
>want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
>without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
>concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
>to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
>could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
>What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
>painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
>betty
I take it you also paid this much attention to detail when he >>installed<<
the studs to make sure the crown was all on the same side so that you would
have a straight wall to begin with??? Or if he used economy grade lumber
instead of stud grade? Caulking doesn't fix bad fit due to poor
construction. That said, if the wall is that uneven he could have scribed
the woodwork and cut for a better fit if you desired it.
Thirdly, caulking is NEVER flat - even if he used a flat tool to smooth it,
the caulking would cure and you would have a concave surface. A good
painter can >>always<< cut the paint properly next to trim even with "bad
caulking".
Fourthly if an uneven caulk line around the windows is a huge
disappointment to you, you are likely going to be blown away in shock if a
real problem comes along like your concrete floor heaving or water
infiltration at the roof!
| |
| Roarmeister 2006-04-11, 9:21 pm |
| On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:29:57 GMT, "Midwest Div" <nobody@verizon.net> wrote:
>It's common that trim does not fit perfectly tight, most builders don't try
>to calc so I imagine yours is attempting to give you a better job. Most
>often what I have seen isn't caulk but a brown (or whatever) colored putty
>stick (it's a wax actually.) If that's what he used, you (or whoever) can
>just run a thin putty knife at the seam and pull it out. (If it's actually
>putty, a safety razor used for painting would probably be necessary.)
>
>Reason that the trim doesn't fit perfect is due to what's under the drywall,
>hangers, framing not made perfectly flush, that sort of thing. (Course it
>could be sloppy workmanship, but if all you have to complain about is putty,
>... feel lucky. Home construction is ALWAYS a compromise between human
>efforts and an ideal.)
No kidding. I've got a simple 2000 ft2 shop/storage building going up and
I've going to have to replace the slab for the second time at the
contractor's expense. The first time he didn't have qualified concrete
finishers and the second time the concrete was actually overspec, too stiff
and developed crazed cracking on the surface. I won't stand for shoddy
workmanship and I know the contractor is going to lose money on the project
- but hey, that's HIS problem.
| |
| tmurf.1@juno.com 2006-04-11, 10:21 pm |
| THat builder is lieing to you. There should be no caulk between the
trim and the drywall. The most common thing builders say is "Not
Possible".
| |
| Al Bundy 2006-04-12, 1:21 am |
| "tmurf.1@juno.com" <tmurf.1@juno.com> wrote in
news:1144804536.993003.246520@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> THat builder is lieing to you. There should be no caulk between the
> trim and the drywall. The most common thing builders say is "Not
> Possible".
>
We all know the story of what happened:
The guy digging the foundation hole did things "close enough". The
concrete crew will compensate and fix it.
The concrete guys got it just about right and said the framers will
straighten and level things off.
The framers did their thing but figured the rough drywall crew will take
care of the uneven, unlevel and non-square stuff.
The rough drywall crew hung the sheetrock to wherever the wood was.
Between the mudders and the finish carpentry crew, they will make things
right.
The finish carpentry crew did what they could in the time alloted. The
painters will take care of things.
| |
| Harry Stump 2006-04-12, 2:21 am |
| On 10 Apr 2006 17:26:05 -0700, campn4fun@adelphia.net wrote:
>We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
>disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
>baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
>wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
>is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
>tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
>there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
>when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
>the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
>painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
>are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
>concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
>have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
>want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
>without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
>concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
>to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
>could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
>What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
>painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
>betty
Just plain and simple, there shouldn't be any caulk there. Never on
stained trimwork. Sounds to me like the builder doesn't have
experience w/ it. I don't know that I've EVER seen caulk used for this
situation.
I can think of many excuses why the trim is calked but not one good
reason!
| |
|
| campn4fun@adelphia.net wrote:
> We are having a house built. The walkthru was today and was a HUGE
> disappointment. We have stained oak trim around windows, doors and
> baseboards. The painter used brown caulking around all the edges of the
> wood trim where it meets the wall. It appears as though this caulking
> is to fill in gaps between the wood trim and walls where it did not fit
> tightly. The walls are painted. My issue is the caulking is concave,
> there is not a square angle between the wall and woodwork, therefore
> when I paint in the future I have no straight edge, such as the edge of
> the wood trim, to paint up to. There is no way to get a straight line
> painted on this concave surface of caulk. Our builder said all homes
> are constructed this way. The builder does not seem to understand my
> concern, there is no straight edge to cut the paint into. Rather you
> have to attempt to paint straight on a concave surface. I insisted I
> want all that caulking removed. Of course he said that is not possible
> without damaging the woodwork and/or walls. He said he cannot be
> concerned how we may paint 5 years down the road. If builders do have
> to use caulking to cover up trim fitting defects, isn't there a way it
> could have been pressed into a right angle rather than left concave?
> What do other builders do where the owner has stained woodwork and
> painted walls? Thanx for all insights.
> betty
>
Oy yoy yoy what a slew of replies to this one.
The simple fact of the mater is that trim rarely, to the point being
able to say never, fits dead tight to the wall over the course of a
single room much less an entire job. Anyone who tells you it does,
should, or could, is completely full of sh*t and has never installed any
quantity of trim in their life.
Nowadays, other than in extreme high end homes you will NEVER, I repeat
NEVER, see anyone scribing case/base/crown to meet an imperfect wall.
Nor will you see cutting/scoring of drywall and so on. Additionally,
both of these practices trades one defect for another by changing the
size of the edge/profile scribed or burrying it in the cut/scored
drywall. This can look just as bad as the problem you were attempting to
cure.
Compound the issue further by your stating that the trim is oak. Often
times with pine trims if the trim itself is not perfectly straight/flat
or the wall isnt dead straight/flat you can draw it in when you nail it
however oak is a far different animal.
Add in yet another fact that the house probably has drywall and you know
the walls arent flat. No tape and joint wall is dead flat. If the house
is skim coat veneer plaster, and a good plasterer, you have a much
better surface but it still wont give you dead tight wall/trim joints.
All that said, even if the walls were dead flat, your builder did the
right thing. Unless the trim were to be stained very dark (ebony) every
gap, which there will be, will show as a black line. The best way, and
its done in 90% of quality home construction today, is to do exactly as
he did. You caulk a tiny bead between the wall and trim then you roll
the wall color *ever so slightly* onto the trim. You can either cut it
by hand if you are a pro-level painter, or use tape. This way, unless
you have your cheek against the wall, you see a staight line and if you
did a good job cutting/taping you still see a staight line with your
cheek against the wall.
We are in the process of running 1200bd' of 6" 4/4 white oak base and 4
1/2" 4/4 white oak case for a customer. There are probably a couple
thousand lineal feet of plaster/trim joint in the entire job with all
the millwork and built-ins and every inch of it will be caulked.
The end result is a clean, crisp, dead tight, job.
Mark
| |
| Harry Stump 2006-04-13, 12:21 am |
| On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:44:59 GMT, M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
>campn4fun@adelphia.net wrote:
>
>
>Oy yoy yoy what a slew of replies to this one.
>
>The simple fact of the mater is that trim rarely, to the point being
>able to say never, fits dead tight to the wall over the course of a
>single room much less an entire job. Anyone who tells you it does,
>should, or could, is completely full of sh*t and has never installed any
>quantity of trim in their life.
> If I'm ful of sh
>Nowadays, other than in extreme high end homes you will NEVER, I repeat
>NEVER, see anyone scribing case/base/crown to meet an imperfect wall.
>Nor will you see cutting/scoring of drywall and so on. Additionally,
>both of these practices trades one defect for another by changing the
>size of the edge/profile scribed or burrying it in the cut/scored
>drywall. This can look just as bad as the problem you were attempting to
>cure.
>
>Compound the issue further by your stating that the trim is oak. Often
>times with pine trims if the trim itself is not perfectly straight/flat
>or the wall isnt dead straight/flat you can draw it in when you nail it
>however oak is a far different animal.
>
>Add in yet another fact that the house probably has drywall and you know
>the walls arent flat. No tape and joint wall is dead flat. If the house
>is skim coat veneer plaster, and a good plasterer, you have a much
>better surface but it still wont give you dead tight wall/trim joints.
>
>All that said, even if the walls were dead flat, your builder did the
>right thing. Unless the trim were to be stained very dark (ebony) every
>gap, which there will be, will show as a black line. The best way, and
>its done in 90% of quality home construction today, is to do exactly as
>he did. You caulk a tiny bead between the wall and trim then you roll
>the wall color *ever so slightly* onto the trim. You can either cut it
>by hand if you are a pro-level painter, or use tape. This way, unless
>you have your cheek against the wall, you see a staight line and if you
>did a good job cutting/taping you still see a staight line with your
>cheek against the wall.
>
>We are in the process of running 1200bd' of 6" 4/4 white oak base and 4
>1/2" 4/4 white oak case for a customer. There are probably a couple
>thousand lineal feet of plaster/trim joint in the entire job with all
>the millwork and built-ins and every inch of it will be caulked.
>
>The end result is a clean, crisp, dead tight, job.
>
>Mark
Mark the smell of hacking and BS is getting stifling in here.
| |
| Al Bundy 2006-04-13, 12:21 am |
| Harry Stump <123hstrump@123hotmail.com> wrote in
news:evdr325gtvj8qr4pqcdtab7ilide9e3d5p@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:44:59 GMT, M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark the smell of hacking and BS is getting stifling in here.
>
Had a "better" house built once by a builder who only builds better
houses. Of course, I/you pay for this. All stained trim. There was zero
caulk/filler. ALL the trim was flush and it wasn't because it was
pounded with lotsa nails to bend to the walls.
| |
|
| Harry Stump wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:44:59 GMT, M&S <no@no.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark the smell of hacking and BS is getting stifling in here.
You smell whatever you choose. You can choose to stand your ground and
think that we are all supposed to build the houses of yesteryear for
todays prices or you can see the tidal wave coming and get the hell out
of the way. I choose to stand right in the middle of that philosophy.
I recently sold a house built in the late 60's. it was just an average
home in its time. Hem fir studs looked like todays D&B pine, like they
were S4S. Double layer rock lath skim coat. Plaster so hard you would
bend a 6 pennny hanging a picture. This is not the construction of
today, the materials of today, and moreso, the consumer of today.
You can either move with the times (the consumer) or die. Which make it
clear you have absolutely nothing to do with the building industry
(working, framing, finish, hanging/finishing drywall, finish carpenter,
etc') on a *daily* basis. You can dig your heels in and expect todays
builders to build the homes of yesteryear for todays walmart prices all
you want. The tidal wave will come and wash you out to sea. Its sad but
true. I would love nothing more than to do the work of yesteryear every
day for customers who appreciated it and would pay for it but I would be
broke seeking them out. Put your money where your mouth is.
We all seek out the customers of yesteryear but they are few and far
between. 20+ years in the trade and I have never had a single business
card printed, never had a truck/trailer lettered, no yellow pages,
nothing and I have always had work booked a year in advance. That said,
I try to seek out quality customers daily but to think I can sit in my
house watching "the view" if they dont knock on my door is ludicrous.
Its clear you dont do this for a living.
That said, caulking trim is not a substandard practice. It is access to
materials that were not accessible 40 years ago. Caulks were non existant.
Post a bit more about your day to day and we will see. How many feet of
trim did you install last year? Its tax time so its an easy one.
Mark
| |
|
| Al Bundy wrote:
> Harry Stump <123hstrump@123hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:evdr325gtvj8qr4pqcdtab7ilide9e3d5p@4ax.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> Had a "better" house built once by a builder who only builds better
> houses. Of course, I/you pay for this. All stained trim. There was zero
> caulk/filler. ALL the trim was flush and it wasn't because it was
> pounded with lotsa nails to bend to the walls.
You shot your whole post down with the "of course I/you pay for this".
You also clearly have never been expected to produce an entire home, or
even a large addition for that matter, in todays consumer market, with
dead tight trim to plaster joints with no caulk. If you had, you would
not be posting in this thread.
Todays consumer, materials, and consumer, make this a completely
different challenge than a home built even 40 years ago.
Try and whack out even a 50 home subdivision with the average home price
at 180-205K and achieve your stated goals. You will have to charge 350k
for the homes you "want" to build (at YOUR desired level of detail) but
customers will be pounding the doors down to "BUY" the 180k home. If you
stand your ground for the higher level of detail I will expect to see
you shortly standing on the street corner murmuring to yourself while
holding out a tin cup expecting some change to afford you a fifth of the
cheapest whooch you can buy.
Its consumer driven (walmart) stupid. Your only option is to "sell" the
180k consumer on the 350k home and sadly that just aint gonna happen.
Until you have sold them, and succeeded, you should measure your criticism.
Mark
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| In article <3zC%f.4237$sq5.1461
@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, no@no.com says...
> Al Bundy wrote:
>
Big Snip
[color=darkred]
> Its consumer driven (walmart) stupid. Your only option is to "sell" the
> 180k consumer on the 350k home and sadly that just aint gonna happen.
> Until you have sold them, and succeeded, you should measure your criticism.
>
> Mark
>
'Its consumer driven' is right on the mark. Successful
business sell/build what the consumer buys/wants.
Today,one of the first questions a potential homebuyer
asks relates to $/SF. For the huge majority of new
home buyers $/SF extremely important ... perfect fit
and finish move down the list when they realize how it
increases $/SF.
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| campn4fun@adelphia.net 2006-04-14, 3:21 pm |
| When I stated the walkthru was a HUGE disappointment and then mentioned
the caulking on the trim, the caulking was one of many issues I had
with the house, it was the most difficult to rectify I believe. Other
issues such as a 1 ft "sliver" of baseboard that just fell off,
baseboard that was nailed on crooked. 2 areas of baseboard have greater
that 1/4 in gaps between the trim and wall, you can see a marked
curvature on what is to be a straight wall. A big glob of caulk in
those gaps.Numerous drywall seams visible. 3 of the 3 faucets had
major leaks when I turned them on, leaking into the floor inside the
cabinets. 3 kitchen cabinets have cracked frames from installation, the
builder says they will put a trim piece over the cracks and we will not
see the cracks. I insisted on replacing the cracked cabinets, he
approved after I insisted and irritated him I believe. Numerous drywall
dents and gouges. Drywall dented in around wall sockets, as though the
socket pulled the drywall in. A Kohler bathtub had the front cracked in
which he had someone some in and repair the crack already. Outside the
front door sidelights 2 screws from the door install are sticking out 1
inch or more, someone forgot to paint the outside of the front door
sidelights. An interesting situation we are waiting on is the painter
washed his painting equipment in the kitchen sink. We have granite
counter tops and an undermount Blanco silgranit sink that was black.
The sink is now a swirl of gray and beige with spots which will not
come out completely. According to the granite installer, that portion
of the counter needs to be removed to get the sink out, as well as the
backsplash which will damage the drywall. There are other issues
reflecting poor workmanship in my opinion, I'm just mentioning the ones
first coming to mind. We thought this was a good builder from the model
we looked at compared to other builders model homes. This is a 1600 sf
ranch, paid $230,000 and another $35,000 in upgrades like granite in
kitchen and baths, wood floors, 8ft tall marble fireplace surround, all
solid wood interior doors, etc. Thought the finished product would look
better. Thanx for listening (reading)
betty
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| campn4fun@adelphia.net wrote:
> When I stated the walkthru was a HUGE disappointment and then mentioned
> the caulking on the trim, the caulking was one of many issues I had
> with the house, it was the most difficult to rectify I believe. Other
> issues such as a 1 ft "sliver" of baseboard that just fell off,
> baseboard that was nailed on crooked. 2 areas of baseboard have greater
> that 1/4 in gaps between the trim and wall, you can see a marked
> curvature on what is to be a straight wall. A big glob of caulk in
> those gaps.Numerous drywall seams visible. 3 of the 3 faucets had
> major leaks when I turned them on, leaking into the floor inside the
> cabinets. 3 kitchen cabinets have cracked frames from installation, the
> builder says they will put a trim piece over the cracks and we will not
> see the cracks. I insisted on replacing the cracked cabinets, he
> approved after I insisted and irritated him I believe. Numerous drywall
> dents and gouges. Drywall dented in around wall sockets, as though the
> socket pulled the drywall in. A Kohler bathtub had the front cracked in
> which he had someone some in and repair the crack already. Outside the
> front door sidelights 2 screws from the door install are sticking out 1
> inch or more, someone forgot to paint the outside of the front door
> sidelights. An interesting situation we are waiting on is the painter
> washed his painting equipment in the kitchen sink. We have granite
> counter tops and an undermount Blanco silgranit sink that was black.
> The sink is now a swirl of gray and beige with spots which will not
> come out completely. According to the granite installer, that portion
> of the counter needs to be removed to get the sink out, as well as the
> backsplash which will damage the drywall. There are other issues
> reflecting poor workmanship in my opinion, I'm just mentioning the ones
> first coming to mind. We thought this was a good builder from the model
> we looked at compared to other builders model homes. This is a 1600 sf
> ranch, paid $230,000 and another $35,000 in upgrades like granite in
> kitchen and baths, wood floors, 8ft tall marble fireplace surround, all
> solid wood interior doors, etc. Thought the finished product would look
> better. Thanx for listening (reading)
> betty
>
Well this reads far differently than the first and given what you have
posted you have a litany of issues which may allow you to refuse the
house all together taking legal action.
Depending on your locale 165$ a square foot may or may not be high but I
would surely consider hiring an independant to come in an assess the
issues and give you an idea of what the long term issues may be with the
home. The builder can come in a make it look pretty enough for you to
accept it at the time, but what you should be concerned with is what is
going to happen 10-20 years down the road.
I surely wouldnt let them get away with it, and I wouldnt suggest
fighting the fight on your own.
Mark
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| tmurf.1@juno.com 2006-04-14, 9:21 pm |
| The original post had nothing about cost per sq/ft or any of that BS.
It described a problem. The only answer is "If it ain't right it is
wrong". This builder is a butcher and ill bet his whole crew lives in
the same room which they rent from him.
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