| Author |
Steel building windows
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| I ordered some energy efficient Aluminum windows for my steel building
from a local window company in Houston and my contractor now tells me
that the windows are not suitable for steel buildings. He says that
they are for wood buildings.
When ordering, I had specificed to the window company that the windows
would be installed on a steel building.
What exactly is the difference for windows for wood construction versus
windows for steel building ? Can a window somehow be converted to be
installed on a steel building provided that the opening size matches ?
Regards
Oguz
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| tmurf.1@juno.com 2006-04-14, 11:21 am |
| When two different metals are put together it creates a small
electrical voltage which causes corrosion. Or in the case of steel
buildings rust. You will have nothing but problems if you use these
windows.
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| Dan Deckert 2006-04-14, 11:21 am |
| They work just fine, it's done all the time. 10 to 1 odds are this guy
(contractor) doesn't erect metal bldgs. for a living. You can use wood,
aluminum or plastic framed, don't let them BS you. Just for laughs, ask the
contractor what type of framing he suggests & let us know. Steel framed
maybe? But its' been how long since I've seen those? Tell your contractor to
drive thru an upscale industrial park and report back what type of windows
(framing) are in those metal buildings.................Send him here and ask
these people if you don't want to take my word for
it........http://www.butlermfg.com/
Dan
"oguz" <oguz@bipom.com> wrote in message
news:1145007447.207486.224260@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I ordered some energy efficient Aluminum windows for my steel building
> from a local window company in Houston and my contractor now tells me
> that the windows are not suitable for steel buildings. He says that
> they are for wood buildings.
>
> When ordering, I had specificed to the window company that the windows
> would be installed on a steel building.
>
> What exactly is the difference for windows for wood construction versus
> windows for steel building ? Can a window somehow be converted to be
> installed on a steel building provided that the opening size matches ?
>
> Regards
>
> Oguz
>
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| tbasc@bellsouth.net 2006-04-14, 1:21 pm |
| That is a problem.
However, I think one can paint the surfaces and avoid the problem.
TB
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| Dan Deckert 2006-04-14, 7:21 pm |
| Galvanic corrosion
Galvanic cells are formed whenever two dissimilar metals are in contact in
the presence of an electrolyte, such as salt water, resulting in the
unwanted galvanic corrosion of the more active metal.
<tmurf.1@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145021202.315917.82800@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> When two different metals are put together it creates a small
> electrical voltage which causes corrosion. Or in the case of steel
> buildings rust. You will have nothing but problems if you use these
> windows.
>
| |
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| Thanks for the advice. My windows are actually 47" by 47" and the
opening is 48" by 48". So presumably, I could avoid the metal to metal
contact by placing a small piece of wood or other insulator between the
steel and aluminum. But I am not sure what to do about mounting screws.
Thanks
Oguz
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| sanjian 2006-04-14, 9:21 pm |
| Dan Deckert wrote:
> Galvanic corrosion
> Galvanic cells are formed whenever two dissimilar metals are in
> contact in the presence of an electrolyte, such as salt water,
> resulting in the unwanted galvanic corrosion of the more active metal.
Just slap up some zinc plates and call it good. ^o^
| |
| Dan Deckert 2006-04-15, 12:21 pm |
| Doesn't work in the real world. In fact, I've NEVER seen it done in 25 plus
years.Your wall sheets need to attach to the steel window frames on all
sides as flush as possible to obtain weathertight condition. Depending on
the metal bldg. type, your windows 'should' install first & then you sheet
over them and install the trim.
EX: Butler provides a type of window frame that's like a channel on each
side for install with a particular type of wall sheet. The window is carried
by the wall sheets (4 sides) and sits in front of the framed opening, the
wall sheets then screw to the framing. (real bastard to get weathertight)
The further you push them away from the steel, the harder it is to get
sealed.
Assuming your bldg. is a refutable mfg, (Butler/Varco Pruden/Garco/etc) the
sheeting screws are probably zinc coated, or possibly stainless (highly
improbable). In any case, 'most' vendors provide a product that's compatible
across the board for the application. IE: A metal bldg. Besides, the screw
shanks/threads should never be exposed to weather, (as a rule) that's why
the weathertight washerhead is there. Another 'serious' consideration is
thermal expansion/contraction. The wood won't move as fast as the wall
sheets or the window frames and you run the risk of separation of your
sealants and loosening (working) of your screws.
Dan
"oguz" <oguz@bipom.com> wrote in message
news:1145053916.960684.317210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the advice. My windows are actually 47" by 47" and the
> opening is 48" by 48". So presumably, I could avoid the metal to metal
> contact by placing a small piece of wood or other insulator between the
> steel and aluminum. But I am not sure what to do about mounting screws.
>
> Thanks
>
> Oguz
>
| |
| R'zenboom 2006-04-17, 8:21 pm |
|
"oguz" <oguz@bipom.com> wrote in message
news:1145007447.207486.224260@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I ordered some energy efficient Aluminum windows for my steel building
> from a local window company in Houston and my contractor now tells me
> that the windows are not suitable for steel buildings. He says that
> they are for wood buildings.
>
> When ordering, I had specificed to the window company that the windows
> would be installed on a steel building.
>
> What exactly is the difference for windows for wood construction versus
> windows for steel building ? Can a window somehow be converted to be
> installed on a steel building provided that the opening size matches ?
>
> Regards
>
> Oguz
Placing steel and alu together accelerates their rusting.
--
R'zenboom
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| Dan Deckert 2006-04-18, 2:21 am |
| more horseshit!
Dan
"R'zenboom" <R'zenboom@yahoo.com'> wrote in message
news:e217fn$kuu$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
>
>
> "oguz" <oguz@bipom.com> wrote in message
> news:1145007447.207486.224260@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Placing steel and alu together accelerates their rusting.
>
> --
> R'zenboom
>
>
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| bill allemann 2006-04-18, 10:21 am |
| I think the corrosion problem is being overstated.
I would assume that the steel siding is galvanized under the paint. If so,
there's your sacrificial anode.
Even without galvanizing, the surface area of steel is far greater than the
aluminum. Unless you will have salt spray (right by the ocean), the
corrosion effects will be negligible.
bill
"R'zenboom" <R'zenboom@yahoo.com'> wrote in message
news:e217fn$kuu$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
>
>
> "oguz" <oguz@bipom.com> wrote in message
> news:1145007447.207486.224260@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Placing steel and alu together accelerates their rusting.
>
> --
> R'zenboom
>
>
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| Dan Deckert 2006-04-18, 11:21 am |
| You are right, the steel panels and the structural steel are both coated
with galvalume (or equivalent).
Dan
"bill allemann" <custom4173@sbcglobalDOTnet.invalid> wrote in message
news:%g51g.12254$4L1.3691@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> I think the corrosion problem is being overstated.
> I would assume that the steel siding is galvanized under the paint. If
so,
> there's your sacrificial anode.
> Even without galvanizing, the surface area of steel is far greater than
the
> aluminum. Unless you will have salt spray (right by the ocean), the
> corrosion effects will be negligible.
> bill
>
> "R'zenboom" <R'zenboom@yahoo.com'> wrote in message
> news:e217fn$kuu$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
| |
| Robert Allison 2006-04-18, 9:21 pm |
| oguz wrote:
> I ordered some energy efficient Aluminum windows for my steel building
> from a local window company in Houston and my contractor now tells me
> that the windows are not suitable for steel buildings. He says that
> they are for wood buildings.
>
> When ordering, I had specificed to the window company that the windows
> would be installed on a steel building.
>
> What exactly is the difference for windows for wood construction versus
> windows for steel building ? Can a window somehow be converted to be
> installed on a steel building provided that the opening size matches ?
>
> Regards
>
> Oguz
>
Last year I took apart a 20 year old metal building that had
standard aluminum windows in it. I saved everything. There
is no visible corrosion on either the windows or the metal
sheets (R-panels).
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX
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| R'zenboom 2006-04-19, 4:21 pm |
|
"Dan Deckert" <deckert@owt.com> wrote in message
news:eYqdnU7sHPyx99nZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@owt.com...
> more horseshit!
>
> Dan
>
cite, please.
--
R'zenboom
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| R'zenboom 2006-04-19, 4:21 pm |
|
"bill allemann" <custom4173@sbcglobalDOTnet.invalid> wrote in message
news:%g51g.12254$4L1.3691@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> I think the corrosion problem is being overstated.
> I would assume that the steel siding is galvanized under the paint. If
so,
> there's your sacrificial anode.
> Even without galvanizing, the surface area of steel is far greater than
the
> aluminum. Unless you will have salt spray (right by the ocean), the
> corrosion effects will be negligible.
> bill
sure it may be overstated.
one thing, tho... did you mean the galvanizing is to be sacrificed ? what
then ?
> "R'zenboom" <R'zenboom@yahoo.com'> wrote in message
> news:e217fn$kuu$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
| |
| bill allemann 2006-04-20, 9:21 am |
| the "what then" is pretty much like with any life span vs cost issue.
you could make the entire building out of 304 and it would last 1500 years.
"R'zenboom" <R'zenboom@yahoo.com'> wrote in message
news:e2609f$bpr$2@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
>
>
>
> "bill allemann" <custom4173@sbcglobalDOTnet.invalid> wrote in message
> news:%g51g.12254$4L1.3691@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> so,
> the
>
> sure it may be overstated.
>
> one thing, tho... did you mean the galvanizing is to be sacrificed ? what
> then ?
>
>
>
>
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| bill allemann 2006-04-20, 10:21 am |
| The only minor overbuild I might consider is to use stainless fasteners on
the window itself.
Being in direct contact (and very small surface area) it would be better to
have the fasteners
more noble than the aluminum window structure.
bill
"Dan Deckert" <deckert@owt.com> wrote in message
news:dbGdnSv27-JnbNnZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@owt.com...
> You are right, the steel panels and the structural steel are both coated
> with galvalume (or equivalent).
> Dan
>
> "bill allemann" <custom4173@sbcglobalDOTnet.invalid> wrote in message
> news:%g51g.12254$4L1.3691@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> so,
> the
>
>
>
| |
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| The window installer finally put small pieces of wood (2 per edge) to
hold the window in position in the steel frame. He then used 4 zinc
screws ( one on each edge ) to secure the aluminum window frame to the
surrounding steel frame. This way, the only electrical connection
between the aluminum and steel is through the zinc screws ( no direct
aluminum to steel contact ).
He is now getting ready to fill the gap around the edges with foam and
then apply caulk over it.
Additionally, I am thinking of adding an awning above the window to
prevent direct rain onto the window.
I guess this is as good as it gets.
Oguz
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| tmurf.1@juno.com 2006-04-21, 1:21 pm |
| You should be ok for the foreseeable future but you still have
dis-similar metals (now three) in contact. the corrosion will come but
the question is when.
| |
| Dan Deckert 2006-04-22, 3:21 am |
| 40 years?
Dan
<tmurf.1@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145635672.996146.190530@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> You should be ok for the foreseeable future but you still have
> dis-similar metals (now three) in contact. the corrosion will come but
> the question is when.
>
| |
| Dan Deckert 2006-04-22, 3:21 am |
| "oguz" <oguz@bipom.com> wrote in message
news:1145621114.351288.31910@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> The window installer finally put small pieces of wood (2 per edge) to
> hold the window in position in the steel frame. He then used 4 zinc
> screws ( one on each edge ) to secure the aluminum window frame to the
> surrounding steel frame. This way, the only electrical connection
> between the aluminum and steel is through the zinc screws ( no direct
> aluminum to steel contact ).
>
Wasted money & time but it's yours! The damn wood will dryrot about 20 years
before you need to worry about the incompatible matl. BS stories going on
here.
> He is now getting ready to fill the gap around the edges with foam and
> then apply caulk over it.
>
Proper install and it won't leak! Har har! (Gap/Foam/Windows?????????) Never
seen that in 20 +years of metal bldgs! The wall sheets/trim OVERLAY THE
WINDOWS, improper sealing= LEAKS. End of friggin story! Foam??????
> Additionally, I am thinking of adding an awning above the window to
> prevent direct rain onto the window.
>
Steel in place above the window to support this, or are you planning on
going with the same BS plans as those that said you'll have a corrosion
problem? Alu/steel/zinc/etc. LOL
Maybe foam supports? That should work as well as the wood insulater don't
you think?
> I guess this is as good as it gets.
>
In your dreams................It's as good as "you're" going to
get..........not LOL
Facitious/Malicious post by;
Dan
You just can't beat Stupid.....or as Forrest said, "Stupid is as Stupid
Does!"..........EOS
> Oguz
>
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| I forgot to mention that they put wall panels and trim so the foam is
not exposed to rain. Additionally they are applying caulk.
Awnings will be of the same material as the wall panels.
Zinc has anodix index very close to galvanic steel so it seems to me
that in the worst case, if there is sufficient moisture to close the
electrical circuit, the screws themselves would be sacrificed. If the
circuit is not closed somehow, corrosion should not happen regardless
of having dissimilar metals.
My understanding is that galvanic corrosion works similar to how a
battery works. The anode and cathode are dissimilar metals; circuit
from anode to cathode has to be completed with an electrical load ( in
this case, surface contact of dissimilar metals and/or mounting screws
) and there has to be electrolyte ( moisture/water + salt ) between the
anode and cathode for chemical reaction inside the battery. Am I
correct ?
Since there is no salt in my environment, acid rain has the most
likelihood of acting as the electrolyte; another reason for keeping the
windows well insulated.
Oguz
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