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PVC versus PE Piping
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| jonfklein@gmail.com 2006-07-17, 9:25 am |
| I am designing a small water distribution system to supply potable
water to a couple of dozen buildings. I am trying to decide between PVC
and PE (Polyethylene) piping. Can anyone in this group comment on the
pros and cons of using either of these pipe materials for this
application?
Some more details on the application:
-The pipe will be almost entirely burried. Only risers coming out of
the ground to connect to building supply points will be exposed to UV
sunlight.
-The location is in a desert environment. Max ambient air temperature
of 50 C (122 F). Min ambient air temperature of 0 C (32 F). Most days
are sunny all day.
Any comments would be appreciated.
-Jonathan Klein
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| john.spevacek@aspenresearch.com 2006-07-17, 9:25 am |
|
jonfklein@gmail.com wrote:
> I am designing a small water distribution system to supply potable
> water to a couple of dozen buildings. I am trying to decide between PVC
> and PE (Polyethylene) piping. Can anyone in this group comment on the
> pros and cons of using either of these pipe materials for this
> application?
>
> Some more details on the application:
> -The pipe will be almost entirely burried. Only risers coming out of
> the ground to connect to building supply points will be exposed to UV
> sunlight.
> -The location is in a desert environment. Max ambient air temperature
> of 50 C (122 F). Min ambient air temperature of 0 C (32 F). Most days
> are sunny all day.
Make sure you know the local building code. It will most likely make
the decision for you.
Questions, questions, questions. Boy, do we have questions. What is
the expected lifetime? What is the expected size (both diamater,
length)? What is the expected pressure (both dynamic spikes and
constant values)? Is this just cold water or hot water too?
Professionally installed or a DYI job?
John
Aspen Research - www.aspenresearch.com
"Turning Questions into Answers"
Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my
employer.
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| jonfklein@gmail.com 2006-07-17, 1:25 pm |
| Thanks for the response. Answers to your questions:
What is the expected lifetime?
20 years minimum
What is the expected size (both diamater, length)?
Up to 6" maximum.
What is the expected pressure (both dynamic spikes and constant
values)?
The pumps used to supply the system can put out 30 psig maximum. So 30
psig would be the maximum constant pressure. Dynamic pressure spikes: I
don't know.
Is this just cold water or hot water too?
Cold water only. Actually there will be two cold water systems, one
will be potable water the other raw aquifer water for toilets and other
non-drinking water uses.
Professionally installed or a DYI job?
It will be installed by a contractor company who should know what they
are doing but quite possibly won't. So installation using simple
procedures is important and the system design will have to be forgiving
enough to withstand a certain degree of improper installation without
failing. So essentially a DIY job from an installation standpoint.
However, there are essentially no constraints from a cost standpoint.
If special tools for installation are needed to be purchased this is no
problem.
john.spevacek@aspenresearch.com wrote:
> jonfklein@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Make sure you know the local building code. It will most likely make
> the decision for you.
>
> Questions, questions, questions. Boy, do we have questions. What is
> the expected lifetime? What is the expected size (both diamater,
> length)? What is the expected pressure (both dynamic spikes and
> constant values)? Is this just cold water or hot water too?
> Professionally installed or a DYI job?
>
> John
> Aspen Research - www.aspenresearch.com
> "Turning Questions into Answers"
>
> Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my
> employer.
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| Harry K 2006-07-18, 3:25 am |
|
jonfklein@gmail.com wrote:
> I am designing a small water distribution system to supply potable
> water to a couple of dozen buildings. I am trying to decide between PVC
> and PE (Polyethylene) piping. Can anyone in this group comment on the
> pros and cons of using either of these pipe materials for this
> application?
>
> Some more details on the application:
> -The pipe will be almost entirely burried. Only risers coming out of
> the ground to connect to building supply points will be exposed to UV
> sunlight.
> -The location is in a desert environment. Max ambient air temperature
> of 50 C (122 F). Min ambient air temperature of 0 C (32 F). Most days
> are sunny all day.
>
> Any comments would be appreciated.
>
> -Jonathan Klein
PE will be quicker to install over any distance.
Both are suitable for that use (cold water only).
Proper installation of any standpipe, or any pipe that exits the ground
outdoors is to transition to iron or copper (usually galvanised) at
burial depth. At least that was what I was told 30 years ago, things
may have changed.
Harry K
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| jonfklein@gmail.com 2006-07-18, 3:25 am |
| Good point about the standpipe.
The system will be in a desert camp of an oil company in a third world
country and there are no local standards to comply with. However, I am
planning to design it in compliance with North American standards.
Does anyone in this group know where I can find a North American design
standard for water distribution systems on the internet?
-Jonathan
Harry K wrote:
> jonfklein@gmail.com wrote:
>
> PE will be quicker to install over any distance.
>
> Both are suitable for that use (cold water only).
>
> Proper installation of any standpipe, or any pipe that exits the ground
> outdoors is to transition to iron or copper (usually galvanised) at
> burial depth. At least that was what I was told 30 years ago, things
> may have changed.
>
> Harry K
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jonfklein@gmail.com wrote:
> Good point about the standpipe.
>
> The system will be in a desert camp of an oil company in a third world
> country and there are no local standards to comply with. However, I am
> planning to design it in compliance with North American standards.
>
> Does anyone in this group know where I can find a North American design
> standard for water distribution systems on the internet?
>
Plenty of stuff out there:
http://plasticpipe.org/m&i/water/publications.php
I was curious since I know the guy that headed up DuPont's PE pipe
division.
Was called Adyl (sic) pipe but sold many years ago to an EC group.
DuPont was good on issuing technical bulletins for use of their
products.
Frank
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| rustyjames 2006-07-18, 5:25 pm |
|
>
> Professionally installed or a DYI job?
>
> It will be installed by a contractor company who should know what they
> are doing but quite possibly won't. So installation using simple
> procedures is important and the system design will have to be forgiving
> enough to withstand a certain degree of improper installation without
> failing.
one of the first things that comes to my mind is "the big dig" when i
read stuff like this. the sad part is that it's common in this country.
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| I'd go PE pipe. I found an article: Environmental Impacts of
Polyvinyl Chloride Building Materials by Dr Joe Thornton, PhD...PVC
manufacturing emits dioxin and other pollutants to the environment.
The paper states that dioxin levels in the world today are higher than
cancer causing, and that dioxin has been found in remote places like in
blue whales in the deep ocean and isolated islands. I was alarmed.
jonfklein@gmail.com wrote:
> I am designing a small water distribution system to supply potable
> water to a couple of dozen buildings. I am trying to decide between PVC
> and PE (Polyethylene) piping. Can anyone in this group comment on the
> pros and cons of using either of these pipe materials for this
> application?
>
> Some more details on the application:
> -The pipe will be almost entirely burried. Only risers coming out of
> the ground to connect to building supply points will be exposed to UV
> sunlight.
> -The location is in a desert environment. Max ambient air temperature
> of 50 C (122 F). Min ambient air temperature of 0 C (32 F). Most days
> are sunny all day.
>
> Any comments would be appreciated.
>
> -Jonathan Klein
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| needhelpcanhelp 2006-07-19, 5:25 pm |
| Why don't you check out alu pipes (irrigation style), they clamp
together quickly, can take misalignment, good for pressure and may find
them at used or surplus sources(farm related).
They won't be affected by sun's UV rays and can still be sold as scrap
if no longer attractive.
Check it out and let us know
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