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Concrete garage base
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| I want to lay a garage base at the bottom of my garden, for my motorbikes.
It is 25 metres from the road side so delivery of pre-mixed concrete will be
a problem, or expensive, or both.
I can mix the concrete myself using a cheap to hire mixer but I need some
advice on the amount to lay in one batch, to avoid cracks.
The slab will be 6m x 4m x .125m = 3 cubic metres.
The mixer spec says it can mix 85 litres in 6 minutes.
Assuming I'm just tipping the concrete straight into the ready prepared
area, with a bit of tamping and smoothing, I can probably mix and tip about
12 loads = 1 cubic metre, in 70 minutes, with possibly 20 mins more for
actually shovelling all the ingredients into the mixer.
This means I can lay one third of the base in about 1.5 hours.
So, help needed here :- What is the best way to do this?
I'm assuming I can't just lay the whole base over a space of 1.5x3 hours =
4.5 hours as the concrete at one end will have started to go off before I've
finished at the other end?
Should I lay 2 slabs, 2 metres wide each, with a 2 metre gap between them?
Then, I could wait a few days until they have both gone off then fill in the
gap with another slab? Will this be prone to cracks between the 3 separate
sections?
Any ideas anyone. All comments and advice greatfully received.....
Cheers
James
| |
|
|
"James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tk%Cg.9099$oW3.191@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>I want to lay a garage base at the bottom of my garden, for my motorbikes.
>It is 25 metres from the road side so delivery of pre-mixed concrete will
>be a problem, or expensive, or both.
>
> I can mix the concrete myself using a cheap to hire mixer but I need some
> advice on the amount to lay in one batch, to avoid cracks.
>
> The slab will be 6m x 4m x .125m = 3 cubic metres.
>
> The mixer spec says it can mix 85 litres in 6 minutes.
>
> Assuming I'm just tipping the concrete straight into the ready prepared
> area, with a bit of tamping and smoothing, I can probably mix and tip
> about 12 loads = 1 cubic metre, in 70 minutes, with possibly 20 mins more
> for actually shovelling all the ingredients into the mixer.
>
> This means I can lay one third of the base in about 1.5 hours.
>
> So, help needed here :- What is the best way to do this?
>
> I'm assuming I can't just lay the whole base over a space of 1.5x3 hours =
> 4.5 hours as the concrete at one end will have started to go off before
> I've finished at the other end?
>
> Should I lay 2 slabs, 2 metres wide each, with a 2 metre gap between them?
> Then, I could wait a few days until they have both gone off then fill in
> the gap with another slab? Will this be prone to cracks between the 3
> separate sections?
>
> Any ideas anyone. All comments and advice greatfully received.....
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>
Don't fully fill it at any point but gradually build up the thickness evenly
over the whole area until finally you are able to build up to the final
level and tamp down with comparatively few mixes. This will ensure that you
are able to move the top layer around sufficiently to properly level it,
because the concrete at the top will all be fairly fresh.
Move all the ingredients as close to the base as you can before you start
and don't skimp on the assistance. There's nothing quite like being totally
shonkered by hard graft and having to keep going because you CAN'T stop.
Been there, done that!
| |
| Bob Morrison 2006-08-11, 1:25 pm |
| In a previous post James wrote...
> I want to lay a garage base at the bottom of my garden, for my motorbikes.
> It is 25 metres from the road side so delivery of pre-mixed concrete will be
> a problem, or expensive, or both.
>
Rent a line pump and do the job in one day.
Yes, it will be more expensive, but you will get a better result and you
will save your back since you won't have to haul 3 cubic meters of sand,
gravel and cement by hand.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
| |
|
|
"Sid" <Rubery@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:OuCdnTzPqNQ8DkHZnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d@pipex.net...
>
> "James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tk%Cg.9099$oW3.191@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Don't fully fill it at any point but gradually build up the thickness
> evenly over the whole area until finally you are able to build up to the
> final level and tamp down with comparatively few mixes. This will ensure
> that you are able to move the top layer around sufficiently to properly
> level it, because the concrete at the top will all be fairly fresh.
So you think the whole slab can be layed in one session, even if this takes
6 hours? Would it not be prone to cracks?
>
> Move all the ingredients as close to the base as you can before you start
> and don't skimp on the assistance. There's nothing quite like being
> totally shonkered by hard graft and having to keep going because you CAN'T
> stop. Been there, done that!
lol. I'm kind of looking forward to doing the graft as I'm trying to lose
some weight at the moment!
Yes, the ingredients will have been moved to the site beforehand, probably
over the space of a *number* of days.
You are right about the assistance - probably mad to attempt it myself in
one day. I can think of 2 mates who'll help me out, which raises another
question - given that the mixers are only about £25 a week to hire, would I
be better off getting two, and with the help of the mates lay the slab in
double quick time? Would this help prevent any cracking?
| |
|
|
"Bob Morrison" <SpamFighter@junk.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f4634f148e89472989bea@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In a previous post James wrote...
>
> Rent a line pump and do the job in one day.
>
> Yes, it will be more expensive, but you will get a better result and you
> will save your back since you won't have to haul 3 cubic meters of sand,
> gravel and cement by hand.
>
I don't mind doing the hard work as I'm trying to get fitter anyway! I'll
move the stuff to the site at a leisurely pace over the preceeding days.
I got a quote for ready mix to be pumped into position and it was twice the
cost of me doing it myself.
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
| |
| Kickstart 2006-08-11, 1:25 pm |
|
>
> I don't mind doing the hard work as I'm trying to get fitter anyway! I'll
> move the stuff to the site at a leisurely pace over the preceeding days.
>
> I got a quote for ready mix to be pumped into position and it was twice
> the cost of me doing it myself.
>
penny wise ?
Mixing consistent concrete and placement is critical to a successful job.
Pound foolish ?
Just don't hurt yourself or your Mate, he may not want to be as fit as you
towards the end of the day
kickstart
| |
| shazzbat 2006-08-11, 1:25 pm |
|
"Kickstart" <cwalker7773@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:RU0Dg.11402$Pc.3153@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...[color=darkred]
You're not going to get fit, you're just going to get knackered. I would
split it lengthwise, ie do one lot of 2m x 4m, then do the other lot when
it's set/when your back isn't hurting so much.
And don't forget your estimates of time to do the job are going to be way
out because of all the messing about with shuttering, haven't got enough
nails, now the hosepipe's leaking, can't find a washer for it, now the
wife's saying the video won't record, your neighbour comes round to borrow
something you can't find, the cat has been sick, etc etc, the list is
endless.
Steve
| |
| Palindr☻me 2006-08-11, 1:25 pm |
| James wrote:
> "Sid" <Rubery@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:OuCdnTzPqNQ8DkHZnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d@pipex.net...
>
>
>
> So you think the whole slab can be layed in one session, even if this takes
> 6 hours? Would it not be prone to cracks?
>
>
>
>
> lol. I'm kind of looking forward to doing the graft as I'm trying to lose
> some weight at the moment!
>
> Yes, the ingredients will have been moved to the site beforehand, probably
> over the space of a *number* of days.
>
> You are right about the assistance - probably mad to attempt it myself in
> one day. I can think of 2 mates who'll help me out, which raises another
> question - given that the mixers are only about £25 a week to hire, would I
> be better off getting two, and with the help of the mates lay the slab in
> double quick time? Would this help prevent any cracking?
>
>
I'd do it in strips, as you suggested. I've done a few, without any
problems. As long as the underlying base is firm enough and the slab
thick enough, the slabs will bond together with no cracks.
I find the break, waiting for the mixer to finish, is a chance to get a
breather, get the kinks out of my back, before going on..
I am surprised that the total cost of getting it pumped, ready mixed, is
only double. I would jump at that...Buying readymix is so, so much
easier, so, so much faster and the quality is so much more consistent
than mixing your own.
However, your shuttering has to be all in place and absolutely perfect.
I'd still do it in strips, whipping out the intermediate shuttering
after getting a rough level on the two outer strips.
--
Sue
| |
|
|
"Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:12dp8v2t8svsk8e@corp.supernews.com...
> James wrote:
> I'd do it in strips, as you suggested. I've done a few, without any
> problems. As long as the underlying base is firm enough and the slab thick
> enough, the slabs will bond together with no cracks.
>
> I find the break, waiting for the mixer to finish, is a chance to get a
> breather, get the kinks out of my back, before going on..
lol, I see your point :-)
>
> I am surprised that the total cost of getting it pumped, ready mixed, is
> only double. I would jump at that...Buying readymix is so, so much easier,
> so, so much faster and the quality is so much more consistent than mixing
> your own.
£376 for ready mix delivered - not including waiting time to barrow it to
bottom of garden, estaimated 90 barrows!!!
£734 for it pumped, again not including waiting time!!
I reckon I can do it for £300 if I mix it myself, not including the £25 for
a week's hire of mixer, and couple of crates of lager for hire of two mates
:-)
>
> However, your shuttering has to be all in place and absolutely perfect.
> I'd still do it in strips, whipping out the intermediate shuttering after
> getting a rough level on the two outer strips.
So you'd put the middle strip in straight away, while the other two are
still damp?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sue
>
>
>
>
| |
|
|
"shazzbat" <shazzbat@spamlessness.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ebi7ug$up6$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Kickstart" <cwalker7773@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:RU0Dg.11402$Pc.3153@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
>
> You're not going to get fit, you're just going to get knackered. I would
> split it lengthwise, ie do one lot of 2m x 4m, then do the other lot when
> it's set/when your back isn't hurting so much.
This is what my question really comes down to - will it crack if I do it in
strips? Do I have to wait for the strips to completely go off before putting
another one next to it?
>
> And don't forget your estimates of time to do the job are going to be way
> out because of all the messing about with shuttering, haven't got enough
> nails, now the hosepipe's leaking, can't find a washer for it, now the
> wife's saying the video won't record, your neighbour comes round to borrow
> something you can't find, the cat has been sick, etc etc, the list is
> endless.
lol. I'll build in contingency time then!
>
> Steve
>
| |
| Palindr☻me 2006-08-11, 5:25 pm |
| James wrote:
<snip>
>
> £376 for ready mix delivered - not including waiting time to barrow it to
> bottom of garden, estaimated 90 barrows!!!
>
> £734 for it pumped, again not including waiting time!!
>
> I reckon I can do it for £300 if I mix it myself, not including the £25 for
> a week's hire of mixer, and couple of crates of lager for hire of two mates
> :-)
Sorry, my misunderstanding - I thought you were saying you could get
pumped readimix for twice the cost of the materials to do it yourself..
Still, the prices ae surprising - it only cost me 70GBP extra over the
roadside price to get a load pumped about the same distance.
It's like when you get your first washing machine or dishwasher, it
spoils you for life..
>
>
>
> So you'd put the middle strip in straight away, while the other two are
> still damp?
Well, not straight away. I would start early, get the outer strips done,
stop for a generous lunch and then remove the intermediate shuttering
and pour the central strip. If you haven't put in too much water, a
couple of hours is enough for it to hold its shape with that depth of
material. Just run a trowel vertically along the edge of the shuttering
to release it, before pulling it away, or it might pull some material
away with it (no big deal, but the lines showing where the strips join
will have a wander in them)..Just level across the centre strip to the
outer ones, but do it gently.
--
Sue
| |
|
| Talk with your local concrete supplier. Here in the states they have trucks
that employ "hoses" to pump the concrete over (fairly) long distances (don't
know the maximum length.) Be a lot easier than mixing yourself and get a
better set.
"James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tk%Cg.9099$oW3.191@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>I want to lay a garage base at the bottom of my garden, for my motorbikes.
>It is 25 metres from the road side so delivery of pre-mixed concrete will
>be a problem, or expensive, or both.
>
> I can mix the concrete myself using a cheap to hire mixer but I need some
> advice on the amount to lay in one batch, to avoid cracks.
>
> The slab will be 6m x 4m x .125m = 3 cubic metres.
>
> The mixer spec says it can mix 85 litres in 6 minutes.
>
> Assuming I'm just tipping the concrete straight into the ready prepared
> area, with a bit of tamping and smoothing, I can probably mix and tip
> about 12 loads = 1 cubic metre, in 70 minutes, with possibly 20 mins more
> for actually shovelling all the ingredients into the mixer.
>
> This means I can lay one third of the base in about 1.5 hours.
>
> So, help needed here :- What is the best way to do this?
>
> I'm assuming I can't just lay the whole base over a space of 1.5x3 hours =
> 4.5 hours as the concrete at one end will have started to go off before
> I've finished at the other end?
>
> Should I lay 2 slabs, 2 metres wide each, with a 2 metre gap between them?
> Then, I could wait a few days until they have both gone off then fill in
> the gap with another slab? Will this be prone to cracks between the 3
> separate sections?
>
> Any ideas anyone. All comments and advice greatfully received.....
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>
| |
| SteveF 2006-08-11, 8:25 pm |
|
"James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gC0Dg.8800$Cz6.7116@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...[color=darkred]
>
> "Bob Morrison" <SpamFighter@junk.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1f4634f148e89472989bea@news.west.earthlink.net...
[snip]
Another option is to rent a gasoline engine powered wheel barrow that in the
US is called a "concrete buggy". It will carry about 1/4 yard and you walk
along behind it as you go from truck to work site.
I did a concrete pad once like you are suggesting. Fifty bags of premixed
concrete (60 lbs each). Empty 2 bags into the mixer, mix, dump into the
wheel barrow, place inside forms and smooth. By myself since the guy I
hired to help didn't feel like showing up. Not the slightest frickin' shred
of a chance I would ever do it again. Hurt like hell for about two weeks.
Rent a buggy, buy the concrete mixed.
Steve.
| |
| Italian 2006-08-12, 1:25 pm |
| Listen up everyone that is thinking of mixing there own concrete for a
situation such as this. Or anythng over 1 yard
======IT WILL NEVER PAY TO DO IT YOURSELF. HIRE A TRUCK AND OR A
PUMP.======
> Assuming I'm just tipping the concrete straight into the ready prepared
> area, with a bit of tamping and smoothing, I can probably mix and tip about
> 12 loads = 1 cubic metre, in 70 minutes, with possibly 20 mins more for
> actually shovelling all the ingredients into the mixer.
You for got things like roding the concrete to make sure it is at the
right level and if it is not having to go back and move material from
another area or rake it up closer. You forgot bullfloating it to get
the rocks down after its is roded you for got running the edger along
the forms for the first pass....plus much much more this all takes time
and must be done at a certian "set" time in the the process. Mixing and
pouring and mixing and pouring will greatly interupt this process...can
it be done yea sure but how much do you want to do it again when it
fails in a year or so? Look if you want to do it this way do very small
sections at a time and place rebar dowels at the edge of the slab ready
for the next pour. You can drill holes in the form and place the rebar
in these holes the next day take these forms out and pour up to it and
repeat. BTW you dont necessarialy have to do one pour a day you can do
as many as you can just make sure to finish the process with the
previous one first then move on to the next one. Butting slabs together
is not the problem its not tending to the already poured concrete that
is the problem......
if you figure just the materials you are already so close to the cost
of redimix it is not worth the hassel...time is also money......
James wrote:
> I want to lay a garage base at the bottom of my garden, for my motorbikes.
> It is 25 metres from the road side so delivery of pre-mixed concrete will be
> a problem, or expensive, or both.
>
> I can mix the concrete myself using a cheap to hire mixer but I need some
> advice on the amount to lay in one batch, to avoid cracks.
>
> The slab will be 6m x 4m x .125m = 3 cubic metres.
>
> The mixer spec says it can mix 85 litres in 6 minutes.
>
> Assuming I'm just tipping the concrete straight into the ready prepared
> area, with a bit of tamping and smoothing, I can probably mix and tip about
> 12 loads = 1 cubic metre, in 70 minutes, with possibly 20 mins more for
> actually shovelling all the ingredients into the mixer.
>
> This means I can lay one third of the base in about 1.5 hours.
>
> So, help needed here :- What is the best way to do this?
>
> I'm assuming I can't just lay the whole base over a space of 1.5x3 hours =
> 4.5 hours as the concrete at one end will have started to go off before I've
> finished at the other end?
>
> Should I lay 2 slabs, 2 metres wide each, with a 2 metre gap between them?
> Then, I could wait a few days until they have both gone off then fill in the
> gap with another slab? Will this be prone to cracks between the 3 separate
> sections?
>
> Any ideas anyone. All comments and advice greatfully received.....
>
> Cheers
> James
| |
| Paul Andrews 2006-08-12, 1:25 pm |
| "James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tk%Cg.9099$oW3.191@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>I want to lay a garage base at the bottom of my garden, for my motorbikes.
>It is 25 metres from the road side so delivery of pre-mixed concrete will
>be a problem, or expensive, or both.
If it's 25m from the road and to be used for motorbikes does this mean
you're building a garage that is also inaccessible to cars?
| |
|
|
"Italian" <Unofornaio@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:1155393283.972568.30480@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Listen up everyone that is thinking of mixing there own concrete for a
> situation such as this. Or anythng over 1 yard
>
> ======IT WILL NEVER PAY TO DO IT YOURSELF. HIRE A TRUCK AND OR A
> PUMP.======
>
> You for got things like roding the concrete to make sure it is at the
> right level and if it is not having to go back and move material from
> another area or rake it up closer. You forgot bullfloating it to get
> the rocks down after its is roded you for got running the edger along
> the forms for the first pass
Can you explain what running the edger along the forms for the first pass
is? Creating a smooth edge around the slab or do I have to separate the slab
from the form?
>....plus much much more this all takes time
> and must be done at a certian "set" time in the the process. Mixing and
> pouring and mixing and pouring will greatly interupt this process...can
> it be done yea sure but how much do you want to do it again when it
> fails in a year or so?
Fair point. I will do smaller slabs and ensure I have lots of mates around
to help.
> Look if you want to do it this way do very small
> sections at a time and place rebar dowels at the edge of the slab ready
> for the next pour. You can drill holes in the form and place the rebar
> in these holes the next day take these forms out and pour up to it and
> repeat. BTW you dont necessarialy have to do one pour a day you can do
> as many as you can just make sure to finish the process with the
> previous one first then move on to the next one.
Can I start the next slab while the one I'm butting up to is still damp
without risking cracks? Or do I have to let each one go off before I start
the next?
> Butting slabs together
> is not the problem its not tending to the already poured concrete that
> is the problem......
>
>
> if you figure just the materials you are already so close to the cost
> of redimix it is not worth the hassel...time is also money......
Mixing myself the cost will be about £300. Having readymix delivered to the
roadside will cost £370 but that does not include the time the truck has to
wait while the mix is wheelbarrowed 25 metres down the side of the house and
through the garden to the work site. 3 cubic metres is about 90 barrows full
so that will take a couple of hours, even with plenty of help.
Waiting time for the truck is £70 per hour adding another £140 minimum,
which is almost doubling the cost and is a hell of a lot of heavy shifting
to move 90 barrows full, all against the clock as the concrete is going off
during those 2 hours whilst being moved.
I have a quote of over £730 to have it pumped to that is still too expensive
given I can mix it myself for less than half the price.
Conclusion : If I mix it myself in small enough batches I can ensure a good
quality mix each time and do the whole project for significantly less money
than approaching it any other way.
>
>
>
> James wrote:
>
| |
|
|
"Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:12dpovngn7hst04@corp.supernews.com...
> James wrote:
> <snip>
>
> Sorry, my misunderstanding - I thought you were saying you could get
> pumped readimix for twice the cost of the materials to do it yourself..
> Still, the prices ae surprising - it only cost me 70GBP extra over the
> roadside price to get a load pumped about the same distance.
I will have to ring round for more pumping quotes in that case, to make sure
the first company aren't trying to pull a fast one.
>
> It's like when you get your first washing machine or dishwasher, it spoils
> you for life..
lol
>
> Well, not straight away. I would start early, get the outer strips done,
> stop for a generous lunch and then remove the intermediate shuttering and
> pour the central strip. If you haven't put in too much water, a couple of
> hours is enough for it to hold its shape with that depth of material. Just
> run a trowel vertically along the edge of the shuttering to release it,
> before pulling it away, or it might pull some material away with it (no
> big deal, but the lines showing where the strips join will have a wander
> in them)..Just level across the centre strip to the outer ones, but do it
> gently.
I'm concerned about cracks and was wondering if laying wet against damp, or
wet against dry is the best way to achieve a perfect finish?
>
> --
> Sue
Thanks for all your advice :-)
| |
|
|
"SteveF" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:x89Dg.13415$Uq1.6608@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gC0Dg.8800$Cz6.7116@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>
> [snip]
>
> Another option is to rent a gasoline engine powered wheel barrow that in
> the US is called a "concrete buggy". It will carry about 1/4 yard and you
> walk along behind it as you go from truck to work site.
Not come across one of those on this side of the pond. Perhaps all that
cheap gas you have allows for such inventive contraptions!
(quick calculation: $1.89 = £1. 1USgal = ~3.8litres. gas = £1/litre. 1US
gallon of gas = $7.18)
>
> I did a concrete pad once like you are suggesting. Fifty bags of premixed
> concrete (60 lbs each). Empty 2 bags into the mixer, mix, dump into the
> wheel barrow, place inside forms and smooth. By myself since the guy I
> hired to help didn't feel like showing up. Not the slightest frickin'
> shred of a chance I would ever do it again. Hurt like hell for about two
> weeks.
One thing I've learnt from posing this question is that I will need lots of
helpers!
>
> Rent a buggy, buy the concrete mixed.
>
> Steve.
>
>
| |
|
| There is a big difference here between morning (first round)pump
costs and afternoon pump costs. You might investigate your costs
on this basis.
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net
"James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_TEDg.67911$oo2.53939@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:12dpovngn7hst04@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I will have to ring round for more pumping quotes in that case,
> to make sure the first company aren't trying to pull a fast one.
>
>
> lol
>
>
> I'm concerned about cracks and was wondering if laying wet
> against damp, or wet against dry is the best way to achieve a
> perfect finish?
>
>
> Thanks for all your advice :-)
>
| |
| JerryD\(upstateNY\) 2006-08-13, 8:25 pm |
| James wrote:
Conclusion : If I mix it myself in small enough batches I can ensure a good
quality mix each time and do the whole project for significantly less money
than approaching it any other way.
Good luck !!
Try finding a friend who knows something about pouring concrete.
Trying to pour a garage slab when you haven't any idea of what you are
doing, is a recipe for disaster.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
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"JerryD(upstateNY)" <jerry@righthere.com> wrote in message
news:X_ODg.15606$uH6.7458@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> James wrote:
> Conclusion : If I mix it myself in small enough batches I can ensure a
> good
> quality mix each time and do the whole project for significantly less
> money
> than approaching it any other way.
>
> Good luck !!
> Try finding a friend who knows something about pouring concrete.
> Trying to pour a garage slab when you haven't any idea of what you are
> doing, is a recipe for disaster.
> --
> JerryD(upstateNY)
>
Thanks for the warning! I'm trying to avoid disaster by doing my homework
and asking the right questions in the right places :-)
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| Keith Willcocks 2006-08-14, 3:29 am |
|
"James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gTVDg.23428$N64.10404@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "JerryD(upstateNY)" <jerry@righthere.com> wrote in message
> news:X_ODg.15606$uH6.7458@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> Thanks for the warning! I'm trying to avoid disaster by doing my homework
> and asking the right questions in the right places :-)
Just spotted your thread (been on hols). Last year I laid a slab for a
summer house and used Master Concrete. Their lorry carries cement, sand and
water, The driver sets the mix strength and the machine mixes as it leaves
the vehicle. They can chute it straight into the site but in my case this
was not close enough, so they provided wheel barrows which my son-in-law and
I trotted back and forth with tipping it onto the prepared site. Two
neighbours did the spreading and levelling. The whole base (16ft x 12ft x
6ins) was laid in just under an hour and a half. The lorry was away after
the first 30 mins the remaining hour was smoothing and tidying. I reckon
that if I had hired a mixer and done it myself it would have been at least a
full days hard work and would have cost more. They estimated the quantity
for me and it has the advantage that, if over estimated, you don't have a
load left to deal with but if under estimated, they have extra on board and
just keep going until it is done. At the end you simply pay the driver for
what is used.
If you are interested, here is their web site:
http://www.masterconcrete.co.uk/
--
Keith Willcocks
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
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"Keith Willcocks" <buccaneer@invalidaddress.com> wrote in message
news:KtKdnaa3ZI35rH3ZnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gTVDg.23428$N64.10404@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> Just spotted your thread (been on hols). Last year I laid a slab for a
> summer house and used Master Concrete. Their lorry carries cement, sand
> and water, The driver sets the mix strength and the machine mixes as it
> leaves the vehicle. They can chute it straight into the site but in my
> case this was not close enough, so they provided wheel barrows which my
> son-in-law and I trotted back and forth with tipping it onto the prepared
> site. Two neighbours did the spreading and levelling. The whole base
> (16ft x 12ft x 6ins) was laid in just under an hour and a half. The
> lorry was away after the first 30 mins the remaining hour was smoothing
> and tidying. I reckon that if I had hired a mixer and done it myself it
> would have been at least a full days hard work and would have cost more.
> They estimated the quantity for me and it has the advantage that, if over
> estimated, you don't have a load left to deal with but if under estimated,
> they have extra on board and just keep going until it is done. At the
> end you simply pay the driver for what is used.
> If you are interested, here is their web site:
> http://www.masterconcrete.co.uk/
> --
> Keith Willcocks
> (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
>
Hi Keith
I've found a local company with the same kind of lorry and am waiting for
them to get back to me with a quote.
I've also found a local ready mix supplier that can tip the 3 cubic metres
at the roadside, 25m from site, for £275 which is cheaper than I can buy the
materials from my builder's merchants for!
They say there is a plasticiser in the concrete allowing for 4 hours
workability, but I'm still not sure me and a couple of mates could shift so
much in 4 hours! My slab is 150% the size of yours at 16' x 18' x 6"
How far did you have to move your concrete in the barrows? My site is 25m
from the roadside. Do you think it could be done in the time?
| |
| Palindr☻me 2006-08-14, 9:25 am |
| James wrote:
> "Keith Willcocks" <buccaneer@invalidaddress.com> wrote in message
> news:KtKdnaa3ZI35rH3ZnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
>
>
> Hi Keith
>
> I've found a local company with the same kind of lorry and am waiting for
> them to get back to me with a quote.
>
> I've also found a local ready mix supplier that can tip the 3 cubic metres
> at the roadside, 25m from site, for £275 which is cheaper than I can buy the
> materials from my builder's merchants for!
>
> They say there is a plasticiser in the concrete allowing for 4 hours
> workability, but I'm still not sure me and a couple of mates could shift so
> much in 4 hours! My slab is 150% the size of yours at 16' x 18' x 6"
>
> How far did you have to move your concrete in the barrows? My site is 25m
> from the roadside. Do you think it could be done in the time?
>
>
Sounds as if you are getting nearer to a solution.
Unless the ground between is steep/uneven/difficult the wheeling is not
that much of a problem, with good, not overfilled, wheelbarrows. Keep
the weight forward so that it is taken by the wheel and not on the
handles and even a girly can manage. A good barrow, properly filled,
will balance when full, so your arms are only used for steering and
pushing, not lifting.
Preparing the route, right to the tipping points, is the vital thing. If
you can set up a raised walkway down the middle of the slab, so that you
are always tipping the barrow downwards, most of the effort disappears.
Establish a circular route, so you can tip, straighten and go on rather
than have to turn around.
Do that and, provided that you (and your mates) are fit enough to keep
/walking/ for 4+hours without a break - no problem. If any of you could
actually manage a marathon without dying, then you will have time to
spare..
But, if your back starts hurting, you are doing it wrong - too much
weight on your arms and your back not straight. Keep going and you could
do yourself a lot of harm.. Do it right and your legs, OTOH, will be
screaming by the end..YMMV..
--
Sue
| |
|
|
"Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:12e0k86sfl1mmbd@corp.supernews.com...
> James wrote:
>
> Sounds as if you are getting nearer to a solution.
>
> Unless the ground between is steep/uneven/difficult the wheeling is not
> that much of a problem, with good, not overfilled, wheelbarrows. Keep the
> weight forward so that it is taken by the wheel and not on the handles and
> even a girly can manage. A good barrow, properly filled, will balance when
> full, so your arms are only used for steering and pushing, not lifting.
>
> Preparing the route, right to the tipping points, is the vital thing. If
> you can set up a raised walkway down the middle of the slab, so that you
> are always tipping the barrow downwards, most of the effort disappears.
> Establish a circular route, so you can tip, straighten and go on rather
> than have to turn around.
>
> Do that and, provided that you (and your mates) are fit enough to keep
> /walking/ for 4+hours without a break - no problem. If any of you could
> actually manage a marathon without dying, then you will have time to
> spare..
>
> But, if your back starts hurting, you are doing it wrong - too much weight
> on your arms and your back not straight. Keep going and you could do
> yourself a lot of harm.. Do it right and your legs, OTOH, will be
> screaming by the end..YMMV..
>
>
> --
> Sue
Technique is the key then? gotcha
I'm now in two minds as to what the best approach is:
1) Get ready mix delivered for £275 but have to barrow all of it, against
the clock.
2) Mix my own, at my leasure, for £320 max. Can be done over any number of
days if I split the work into smaller slabs. I still have to barrow all the
materials, but not against the clock, and not with the water mixed in with
it!
3) Get two lots of ready mix, on different days, ensuring the two slab
halves are down long before the concrete starts to go off. This puts less
pressure on the barrow boys but increases to cost to £165 x 2 = £330
Any thoughts?
| |
| Palindr☻me 2006-08-14, 1:25 pm |
| James wrote:
> "Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:12e0k86sfl1mmbd@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> Technique is the key then? gotcha
>
> I'm now in two minds as to what the best approach is:
>
> 1) Get ready mix delivered for £275 but have to barrow all of it, against
> the clock.
>
> 2) Mix my own, at my leasure, for £320 max. Can be done over any number of
> days if I split the work into smaller slabs. I still have to barrow all the
> materials, but not against the clock, and not with the water mixed in with
> it!
>
> 3) Get two lots of ready mix, on different days, ensuring the two slab
> halves are down long before the concrete starts to go off. This puts less
> pressure on the barrow boys but increases to cost to £165 x 2 = £330
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
Mix your own. It won't kill you. You obviously want to give it a go. If
you do it in strips, you can choose whether to keep going and do it in a
day - or take a couple of weeks doing it, strip by strip - the concrete
won't care. You can, as suggested, drill some over-size holes in the
formers and use some rebar to bond the strips together. I have never
bothered other than where I wasn't too happy about the sub-base.
I'd lay a few poly tubes down under the slab. Two days after you finish,
you will find that you want to put a water pipe/cable/phone line across
where you hadn't thought that you would need one.
--
Sue
| |
| Keith Willcocks 2006-08-15, 9:25 am |
|
"James" <viagrabuddy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6RXDg.19408$t%.15037@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Keith Willcocks" <buccaneer@invalidaddress.com> wrote in message
> news:KtKdnaa3ZI35rH3ZnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> Hi Keith
>
> I've found a local company with the same kind of lorry and am waiting for
> them to get back to me with a quote.
>
> I've also found a local ready mix supplier that can tip the 3 cubic metres
> at the roadside, 25m from site, for £275 which is cheaper than I can buy
> the materials from my builder's merchants for!
>
> They say there is a plasticiser in the concrete allowing for 4 hours
> workability, but I'm still not sure me and a couple of mates could shift
> so much in 4 hours! My slab is 150% the size of yours at 16' x 18' x 6"
>
> How far did you have to move your concrete in the barrows? My site is 25m
> from the roadside. Do you think it could be done in the time?
Probably about the same distance - up the drive, down the side of the house
and down the back garden. I thought it went very easily. The trick was
to have two people with barrows (three for the first few loads to get
started) and two more spreading and levelling. The lorry was gone after
30 minutes and all that remained was final smoothing and levelling. I
would have thought yours would not take that much longer. The other thing
to watch is that your shuttering is strong enough to take the cement rolling
up against it and you have boards to enable you to push the barrows over the
shuttering to where you want to tip. After my experience I wouldn't dream
of doing it any other way. Bear in mind also that if you have the muck
tipped at the roadside you have the additional task of shovelling heavy wet
cement into the barrows whereas the mixer lorry pours it straight in.
--
Keith Willcocks
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
| |
|
|
"Palindr?me" <sb382638@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:12e14krkil6u15c@corp.supernews.com...
> Mix your own. It won't kill you. You obviously want to give it a go. If
> you do it in strips, you can choose whether to keep going and do it in a
> day - or take a couple of weeks doing it, strip by strip - the concrete
> won't care. You can, as suggested, drill some over-size holes in the
> formers and use some rebar to bond the strips together. I have never
> bothered other than where I wasn't too happy about the sub-base.
lol obviously want to give it a go. Perhaps that's true, I'd just not
realised it!
Yes, I think it would be best rather than a race against the clock to move
all the premix from the roadside.
>
> I'd lay a few poly tubes down under the slab. Two days after you finish,
> you will find that you want to put a water pipe/cable/phone line across
> where you hadn't thought that you would need one.
Great minds must think alike. I've got drainage, hot and cold water, TV,
cat5 and phone wires already down!
>
>
> --
> Sue
Thanks for all your advice, Sue. This just leads me now into the murky world
of what's the best mix to use? The builder's merchant supplies aggregate
which is fine sand mixed with fine gravel. I want something really strong
and don't mind paying for extra cement to achieve it so do you think a 4:1
mix is suitable? Bearing in mind I'm going to build a big heavy log cabin on
top, quite possibly with a hot tub inside it, not to mention some motor
bikes and machinery.
| |
| Palindr☻me 2006-08-16, 9:25 am |
| James wrote:
<snip>
> Thanks for all your advice, Sue. This just leads me now into the murky world
> of what's the best mix to use? The builder's merchant supplies aggregate
> which is fine sand mixed with fine gravel. I want something really strong
> and don't mind paying for extra cement to achieve it so do you think a 4:1
> mix is suitable? Bearing in mind I'm going to build a big heavy log cabin on
> top, quite possibly with a hot tub inside it, not to mention some motor
> bikes and machinery.
>
>
Your log cabin manufacturer will have given you the spec for the base.
Stick to that.
Cement+sand with no gravel has zero strength - it is the gravel that
provides the strength. The cement merely bonds the gravel together - too
much can leave you with a weaker concrete in the same way as too little
can. The sand makes the cement go further.
I use 1:2:4. If I want it stronger, I make it thicker and stick in
reinforcement. Easy to do - lay the mesh on the sub-base/dpm with a few
loops of string with knots 2" above the mesh - pour and level the
concrete, then gently pull the loops until the knots show. Cut the
loops, pull out the string and do a final tamp down and level. Easier
than playing with stand-offs and trying to pour the concrete through the
holes..
My workshop has 150mm with two crossed mesh reinforcement, one at 50 and
another at 100mm. It has to take a 2+ ton milling machine, plus a few
other toys like that. I worked on the premise that it was easier to go
for overkill when I built the thing, rather than wish I had, later. My
local building inspector was dead impressed - I think he thought I was
really building a nuclear bunker..
--
Sue
| |
| shazzbat 2006-08-16, 9:25 am |
|
"Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:12e5rsh9uneks4c@corp.supernews.com...
> James wrote:
> <snip>
>
> Your log cabin manufacturer will have given you the spec for the base.
> Stick to that.
>
> Cement+sand with no gravel has zero strength - it is the gravel that
> provides the strength. The cement merely bonds the gravel together - too
> much can leave you with a weaker concrete in the same way as too little
> can. The sand makes the cement go further.
>
> I use 1:2:4. If I want it stronger, I make it thicker and stick in
> reinforcement. Easy to do - lay the mesh on the sub-base/dpm with a few
> loops of string with knots 2" above the mesh - pour and level the
> concrete, then gently pull the loops until the knots show. Cut the loops,
> pull out the string and do a final tamp down and level. Easier than
> playing with stand-offs and trying to pour the concrete through the
> holes..
>
> My workshop has 150mm with two crossed mesh reinforcement, one at 50 and
> another at 100mm. It has to take a 2+ ton milling machine, plus a few
> other toys like that.
I've heard all I need to hear now. Will you marry me?
Steve
| |
| Palindr☻me 2006-08-16, 9:25 am |
| shazzbat wrote:
> "Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:12e5rsh9uneks4c@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> I've heard all I need to hear now. Will you marry me?
>
LOL, there must be less drastic ways for you to get your hands on an
auto-feed bed and a suds pump...
--
Sue
| |
|
|
"Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:12e5rsh9uneks4c@corp.supernews.com...
> James wrote:
> <snip>
>
> Your log cabin manufacturer will have given you the spec for the base.
> Stick to that.
I'm building the cabin myself so have no spec to work to.
>
> Cement+sand with no gravel has zero strength - it is the gravel that
> provides the strength. The cement merely bonds the gravel together - too
> much can leave you with a weaker concrete in the same way as too little
> can. The sand makes the cement go further.
Well you live and learn. I thought the strength all came from the cement!
>
> I use 1:2:4. If I want it stronger, I make it thicker and stick in
> reinforcement. Easy to do - lay the mesh on the sub-base/dpm with a few
> loops of string with knots 2" above the mesh - pour and level the
> concrete, then gently pull the loops until the knots show. Cut the loops,
> pull out the string and do a final tamp down and level. Easier than
> playing with stand-offs and trying to pour the concrete through the
> holes..
I take it that is 1 cement, 2 sand, 4 gravel?
I'll have to ask the builders merchant which ratio of sand to gravel the
aggregate comes in, but one would think it is a standard mix if that's all
they supply to the trade.
Thanks for the string loop technique, I was wondering how it was done
without the mesh just sitting on the bottom or it standing on blocks.
>
> My workshop has 150mm with two crossed mesh reinforcement, one at 50 and
> another at 100mm. It has to take a 2+ ton milling machine, plus a few
> other toys like that. I worked on the premise that it was easier to go for
> overkill when I built the thing, rather than wish I had, later. My local
> building inspector was dead impressed - I think he thought I was really
> building a nuclear bunker..
lmao. I'm kind of wanting the same strength, for overkill as you nicely put
it, but was hoping 125mm with one cross mesh would do the trick?
>
> --
> Sue
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
| |
| Palindr☻me 2006-08-16, 9:25 am |
| James wrote:
> "Palindr?me" <me9@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:12e5rsh9uneks4c@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> I'm building the cabin myself so have no spec to work to.
OK, so find a log cabin manufacturer that makes one similar to what you
have in mind and get the spec for the base for that..
>
>
>
>
> Well you live and learn. I thought the strength all came from the cement!
>
It's one of those things where a mix is stronger than any of the
components, individually.
>
>
>
> I take it that is 1 cement, 2 sand, 4 gravel?
Yep
>
> I'll have to ask the builders merchant which ratio of sand to gravel the
> aggregate comes in, but one would think it is a standard mix if that's all
> they supply to the trade.
There's all sorts of stuff called various things from 40 to dust, to
all-in-one ballast, to heaven knows what. I like to mix my own..that's
the way my dad taught me..
>
> Thanks for the string loop technique, I was wondering how it was done
> without the mesh just sitting on the bottom or it standing on blocks.
lol..it's the way my dad taught me..
>
>
>
>
> lmao. I'm kind of wanting the same strength, for overkill as you nicely put
> it, but was hoping 125mm with one cross mesh would do the trick?
How long is a piece of string? I used the same spec that the workshop
where I worked had been built to. The extra cost was not a lot and it
isn't going to break, no matter what I do to it.
--
Sue
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