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Home > Archive > Building and Construction > December 2007 > tapcon screws, basement floor - advice needed
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tapcon screws, basement floor - advice needed
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| hi guys,
A contractor just did a floor in my basement. Basically he lay 2x3 on the concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (af
ter the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 to
the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to act
ually undo anything. My question though is the following:
Can I "fix" the problem by basically screwing in some additional tapcon screws (say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the con
crete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...
any advice would be really appreciated. thanx
greg
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| marson 2007-11-30, 9:25 am |
| On Nov 30, 2:23 am, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
> hi guys,
>
> A contractor just did a floor in my basement. Basically he lay 2x3 on the concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (
after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 t
o the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to a
ctually undo anything. My question though is the following:
>
> Can I "fix" the problem by basically screwing in some additional tapcon screws (say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the c
oncrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...
>
> any advice would be really appreciated. thanx
>
> greg
3/4" of penetration is really pretty marginal to get good purchase
with a Tapcon. I would suggest going 6". Your plan sounds
reasonable, though.
| |
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| thanks for the reply
one more question: would you know what in what type of stores you can actually buy 6" Tapcon screws? I've checked in stores like Home Depot - there they only have up to 3 1/2 or 4".
(I'm in Canada, but it would still give me some kind of idea...)
g
| |
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| Look in your yellow pages under contractors - supplies. These
stores are not box stores, but cater to contractors with tools and
fasteners. Tapcons are only meant to penetrate good quality, old
concrete 1" with an absolute maximum of 1 3/4". You will snap the
anchors trying to go further and will often snap them at over an
1". The Phillips drive heads probably cannot be used to the
deeper penetrations unless you have an impact grade gun, the hex
drives will work better.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net
"greg" <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote in message
news:u7GdnZtEoOEtDc_anZ2dnUVZ_vqpnZ2d@giganews.com...
> thanks for the reply
>
> one more question: would you know what in what type of stores
> you can actually buy 6" Tapcon screws? I've checked in stores
> like Home Depot - there they only have up to 3 1/2 or 4".
> (I'm in Canada, but it would still give me some kind of idea...)
>
> g
| |
| Matt Whiting 2007-12-02, 9:25 am |
| marson wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2:23 am, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
(after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3
to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to
actually undo anything. My question though is the following:[color=darkred]
concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...[color=darkred]
>
> 3/4" of penetration is really pretty marginal to get good purchase
> with a Tapcon. I would suggest going 6". Your plan sounds
> reasonable, though.
6"? Ha, ha, ha...
You better read the tapcon instructions. An inch is fine and much more
risks twisting off the tapcon.
Matt
| |
| marson 2007-12-02, 1:25 pm |
| On Dec 2, 7:51 am, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
> marson wrote:
>
e (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x
3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late t
o actually undo anything. My question though is the following:[color=darkred]
>
e concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...[color=darkred]
>
>
>
>
> 6"? Ha, ha, ha...
>
> You better read the tapcon instructions. An inch is fine and much more
> risks twisting off the tapcon.
>
> Matt
Let's see. He said he'd get 3/4" penetration with a 5" tapcon. If he
is right, then 6" would give him 1 3/4" of penetration. From my
experience, 3/4" of bite on a 5" tapcon isn't enough. 1 3/4 sucks
because some will break, but it is doable. Dan G gave some excellent
advice. Been there done that.
| |
| Steve Barker 2007-12-02, 1:25 pm |
| According to the boys that make them, they come in lengths up to 4"
http://www.tapcon.com/products.asp
"greg" <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote in message
news:u7GdnZtEoOEtDc_anZ2dnUVZ_vqpnZ2d@giganews.com...
> thanks for the reply
>
> one more question: would you know what in what type of stores you can
> actually buy 6" Tapcon screws? I've checked in stores like Home Depot -
> there they only have up to 3 1/2 or 4".
> (I'm in Canada, but it would still give me some kind of idea...)
>
> g
| |
|
| According to the company that makes them they are readily
available through 7 1/2". I use quite a few 5 and 6 inch.
http://www.itwbuildex.com/tapcon.htm
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net
"Steve Barker" <ichasetrains@not.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f8GdnbLX4Iw1Qs_anZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d@giganews.com...
> According to the boys that make them, they come in lengths up to
> 4"
>
> http://www.tapcon.com/products.asp
>
>
> "greg" <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote in message
> news:u7GdnZtEoOEtDc_anZ2dnUVZ_vqpnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
| |
| marson 2007-12-02, 1:25 pm |
| On Dec 2, 11:03 am, "DanG" <dgrif...@7cox.net> wrote:[color=darkred]
> According to the company that makes them they are readily
> available through 7 1/2". I use quite a few 5 and 6 inch.http://www.itwbuildex.com/tapcon.htm
>
> --
> ______________________________
> Keep the whole world singing . . . .
> DanG (remove the sevens)
> dgriff...@7cox.net
>
> "Steve Barker" <ichasetra...@not.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f8GdnbLX4Iw1Qs_anZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
I have 6"er's in my toolbox as we speak.
| |
| Steve Barker 2007-12-02, 5:25 pm |
| Now i wonder why one site would say one thing and the other, another??
s
"DanG" <dgriff23@7cox.net> wrote in message
news:xAB4j.1858$hO7.1435@newsfe13.lga...
> According to the company that makes them they are readily available
> through 7 1/2". I use quite a few 5 and 6 inch.
> http://www.itwbuildex.com/tapcon.htm
>
> --
> ______________________________
> Keep the whole world singing . . . .
> DanG (remove the sevens)
> dgriff237@7cox.net
>
>
>
> "Steve Barker" <ichasetrains@not.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:f8GdnbLX4Iw1Qs_anZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
| |
| Matt Whiting 2007-12-02, 9:25 pm |
| marson wrote:
> On Dec 2, 7:51 am, Matt Whiting <whit...@epix.net> wrote:
e (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x
3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late t
o actually undo anything. My question though is the following:[color=darkred]
e concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...[color=darkred]
>
> Let's see. He said he'd get 3/4" penetration with a 5" tapcon. If he
> is right, then 6" would give him 1 3/4" of penetration. From my
> experience, 3/4" of bite on a 5" tapcon isn't enough. 1 3/4 sucks
> because some will break, but it is doable. Dan G gave some excellent
> advice. Been there done that.
The sentence is talking about 3/4" of PENETRATION and you reply that you
would suggest 6" which implies 6" of PENETRATION since that was the
topic in the sentence to which you replied.
Matt
| |
| Bobk207 2007-12-03, 1:25 pm |
| On Nov 30, 12:23 am, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
> hi guys,
>
> A contractor just did a floor in my basement. Basically he lay 2x3 on the concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (
after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 t
o the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to a
ctually undo anything. My question though is the following:
>
> Can I "fix" the problem by basically screwing in some additional tapcon screws (say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the c
oncrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...
>
> any advice would be really appreciated. thanx
>
> greg
Greg-
I would suggest you use Hex Washer Head Tapcons (you might consider
1/4" screw size)
If you counter bore the plywood, you can get whatever concrete
penetration you want (within reason) with the 5" Tapcons.
cheers
Bob
| |
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| i really appreiciate your replies guys,
hm... i already just purchased the ones with the "flat" head... (my reasoning was that it would be flush with the surface...) why did you suggest the hexagonal head? - is it stronger and less likely to break?
greg
| |
| marson 2007-12-03, 8:25 pm |
| On Dec 3, 6:53 pm, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
> i really appreiciate your replies guys,
>
> hm... i already just purchased the ones with the "flat" head... (my reasoning was that it would be flush with the surface...) why did you suggest the hexagonal head? - is it stronger and less likely to break?
>
> greg
Hex heads are easier for your driver to grab and drive, especially in
a long tapcon.
| |
| Bobk207 2007-12-04, 3:25 am |
| On Dec 3, 4:53 pm, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
> i really appreiciate your replies guys,
>
> hm... i already just purchased the ones with the "flat" head... (my reasoning was that it would be flush with the surface...) why did you suggest the hexagonal head? - is it stronger and less likely to break?
>
> greg
Greg-
You reasoning to buy flat heads was sound...they'll drive flush by
sucking down into the plywood.
But the drawback to Phillips drive is the tendency to cam out of the
driving socket...hence the recommendation for hex heads (or square
drive if they made them). Also hex heads would be "proud" unless the
wood was counter bored.
Hex heads have flat sides so they drive better & you can apply a lot
more torque.
Get a few Tek screws an compare them to similarly sized phillips
heads.
cheers
Bob
| |
| Matt Whiting 2007-12-04, 9:25 pm |
| marson wrote:
> On Dec 3, 6:53 pm, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
>
> Hex heads are easier for your driver to grab and drive, especially in
> a long tapcon.
Yes, what he said.
Matt
| |
|
| thanks a lot; one last question:
is a 5 inch tapcon more recommended in 1/4 or 3/16 thickness?
I'm asking because I noticed that when the guy was using 3/16 tapcons with the recommended 5/32 mesh (which is 1/32 less thick than the tapcon itself) he had no problem. however when he tried screwing in the 1/4 inch thick tapcons while predrilling holes
using the recommended 3/16 mesh (which is not 1/32 but 1/16 less thick than the tapcon itself) he was having some problems getting them in..
any opinions on that?
| |
| Matt Whiting 2007-12-05, 8:25 pm |
| greg wrote:
> thanks a lot; one last question:
>
> is a 5 inch tapcon more recommended in 1/4 or 3/16 thickness?
You mean diameter? Or something else?
> I'm asking because I noticed that when the guy was using 3/16 tapcons
> with the recommended 5/32 mesh (which is 1/32 less thick than the tapcon
> itself) he had no problem. however when he tried screwing in the 1/4
> inch thick tapcons while predrilling holes using the recommended 3/16
> mesh (which is not 1/32 but 1/16 less thick than the tapcon itself) he
> was having some problems getting them in..
Mesh? I thought you were fastening 2x3s to concrete?
Matt
| |
| marson 2007-12-06, 9:25 am |
| On Dec 5, 4:21 pm, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:
> thanks a lot; one last question:
>
> is a 5 inch tapcon more recommended in 1/4 or 3/16 thickness?
>
> I'm asking because I noticed that when the guy was using 3/16 tapcons with the recommended 5/32 mesh (which is 1/32 less thick than the tapcon itself) he had no problem. however when he tried screwing in the 1/4 inch thick tapcons while predrilling hol
es using the recommended 3/16 mesh (which is not 1/32 but 1/16 less thick than the tapcon itself) he was having some problems getting them in..
>
> any opinions on that?
1/4" would be preferred in the longer lengths as they are less prone
to breaking.
| |
|
| by mesh i meant "drill bit" (that will be used to predrill the hole for the tapcon)
and yes, by 1/4 and 3/16 i was referring to diameter of the tapcon screws
| |
| Matt Whiting 2007-12-06, 5:25 pm |
| greg wrote:
> by mesh i meant "drill bit" (that will be used to predrill the hole for
> the tapcon)
>
> and yes, by 1/4 and 3/16 i was referring to diameter of the tapcon screws
Interesting. I've never heard a drill bit called "mesh" before? Are
you from a different country? I'm just curious.
As to your original question, I've always used the drill size that
Tapcon recommends and have never had a problem driving the fasteners
with a 3/8" drill.
Matt
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