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Home > Archive > Building and Construction > February 2007 > Cheap-n-dirty shelving for concrete wall?
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| Author |
Cheap-n-dirty shelving for concrete wall?
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| John E. 2007-02-16, 9:25 am |
| Have need for shelves to hang on tilt-up concrete (not block) wall. Must be
sturdy, but don't want supports at the corners. I'm thinking about some kind
of triangular bracket anchored either from above (which holds a plank inside
the bottom of the triangle) or from the back side (for which a plank would
sit on the top of the inverted triangle):
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=======
-------
or
=======
-------
| /
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|/
(key: = is the plank)
Haven't been able to locate such locally (want to do this over the weekend
upcoming).
Basically I want no forward supports, just wall attachments with some kind of
diagonals.
Other ideas?
Thanks,
--
John English
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| longshot 2007-02-16, 9:25 am |
| vertical tracks with hanger brackets
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| clintonG 2007-02-16, 1:25 pm |
| <snip />
No, no, no
> |\
> | \
> | \
> | \
> =======
Yes, yes, yes
> =======
> -------
> | /
> | /
> | /
> |/
>
The second diagram supports loads reliably when properly braced. It is
reasonable these days to consider an adhesive that could glue the bracing to
the wall but without bolting metal bracing to the concrete wall the load
bearing capability of the shelf would not be very reliable unless the
vertical members of each brace extend to the concrete floor.
This could easily be built by using 2x4 for the bracing. Glue the vertical
members to the concrete wall using the proper adhesive made for such tasks
and extend the vertical member of the braces to rest on the concrete floor.
A 3/4" x 12-15" plywood shelf with bracing every 36" should suffice and
could easily carry loads up to 100 lbs. without worry. I don't use or
recommend particle board in a garage. It warps too easily and does not carry
loads well unless the bracing is reduced to every 18-24" for any meaningful
loads. I wouldn't pull my bracing in any more than 12" from either end of a
shelf and still, for the most secure installation a bolt or two through each
vertical brace into the concrete wall is the best solution.
--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/
MAP http://wikimapia.org/#y=43038073&x=...38&z=17&l=0&m=h
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| John E. 2007-02-16, 1:25 pm |
| > vertical tracks with hanger brackets
If you mean those 3/4-inch wide slotted tracks with 1/8-inch thick brackets,
IME, they're OK for books and brick-a-brack, but insufficient strength (I've
bent the "arms" and broken a few tabs in my time) for "industrial" use.
Thanks,
--
John English
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| John E. 2007-02-16, 1:25 pm |
| Thus spake clintonG:
> A 3/4" x 12-15" plywood shelf with bracing every 36" should suffice and
> could easily carry loads up to 100 lbs. without worry.
The *kind* of bracing is the point of my question and post. What supports the
shelf, in your design?
Would like to avoid an all-2x4 lumber triangle every 36 inches -- I plan to
span almost 20 feet of wall with these shelves, with possibly as many as 3 or
4 shelves above the work surface. (The work surface itself is a
self-supporting "box" design.)
Bolting 2x4 to the wall is no problem. I'm just trying to avoid the use of
vertical "post" supports into the work area.
Thanks,
--
John English
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| Goedjn 2007-02-16, 1:25 pm |
| On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:19:43 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Thus spake clintonG:
>
>
>The *kind* of bracing is the point of my question and post. What supports the
>shelf, in your design?
>
>Would like to avoid an all-2x4 lumber triangle every 36 inches -- I plan to
>span almost 20 feet of wall with these shelves, with possibly as many as 3 or
>4 shelves above the work surface. (The work surface itself is a
>self-supporting "box" design.)
>
>Bolting 2x4 to the wall is no problem. I'm just trying to avoid the use of
>vertical "post" supports into the work area.
>
>Thanks,
I built a bunch of wall brackets out of 1x3s and 1x2s,
like this: www.goedjn.com/sketch/bracket.gif
Which are adequate to hold up a good armload of 2x4s,
if placed every 4'. Mine are screwed into the
wall with 3.5" deck screws.
they need one screw through the tenon where the
horizontal pegs to the vertical, to keep it
from withdrawing, but everything else is
in compression when it's loaded.
Note that the tennons on the angle peice
need to be at 45 degrees, or you can't
assemble all three parts at once.
In my setup, the triangular open area is used to
to store pipe and dowel.
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| Al Schmidt 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
| Get the Industrial Strength double wide tracks and brackets. They carry a
large load.
"John E." <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C1FB31ED016D6C7AF01826C8@news.readfreenews.net...
>
> If you mean those 3/4-inch wide slotted tracks with 1/8-inch thick
> brackets,
> IME, they're OK for books and brick-a-brack, but insufficient strength
> (I've
> bent the "arms" and broken a few tabs in my time) for "industrial" use.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> John English
>
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| Not to mention, they are adjustable and not an eye-sore like wood
brackets would be.
"Al Schmidt" <kd6nt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%DnBh.16$am1.0@trndny01...
> Get the Industrial Strength double wide tracks and brackets.
> They carry a large load.
>
>
> "John E." <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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| John E. 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
| I think I've hit on an idea...
Ideally, I'm looking for a sheet metal triangle (not 3 sheet metal sides, but
a 3-sided piece of sheet steel) with a flange on each of the 2 mounting sides
(vertical and horizontal) for attaching to wood upright and shelving with
screws. Heavy metal, not tin.
But my eyes are getting weak from the web sites I've searched for such a
thing. Anyone seen such?
Thanks,
--
John English
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| John E. 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
| Thus spake John E.:
> a 3-sided piece of sheet steel...
On second read, that doesn't look clear.
I mean a stamped steel triangle with flanges and screw holes on 2 edges for
attaching to upright and to the shelf.
Hope that's clearer...
--
John English
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| longshot 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
| go to www.mcmaster.com search wall mount shelving. I tried to post the link
& it wouldn't work. for about 7 bucks a piece you can buy brackets with a
1060 lb capacity
"John E." <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C1FB6AA2017AB6DFF01826C8@news.readfreenews.net...
> Thus spake John E.:
>
>
> On second read, that doesn't look clear.
>
> I mean a stamped steel triangle with flanges and screw holes on 2 edges
> for
> attaching to upright and to the shelf.
>
> Hope that's clearer...
> --
> John English
>
>
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| longshot 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
| catalog page 1559 12" heavy duty steel, part number 1752A73
"longshot" <longshot@aol.com> wrote in message
news:gaqBh.13$aM.3@trndny03...
> go to www.mcmaster.com search wall mount shelving. I tried to post the
> link & it wouldn't work. for about 7 bucks a piece you can buy brackets
> with a 1060 lb capacity
>
> "John E." <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C1FB6AA2017AB6DFF01826C8@news.readfreenews.net...
>
>
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| dadiOH 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
| John E. wrote:
> I think I've hit on an idea...
>
> Ideally, I'm looking for a sheet metal triangle (not 3 sheet metal
> sides, but a 3-sided piece of sheet steel) with a flange on each of
> the 2 mounting sides (vertical and horizontal) for attaching to
> wood upright and shelving with screws. Heavy metal, not tin.
>
> But my eyes are getting weak from the web sites I've searched for
> such a thing. Anyone seen such?
What are you going to put on the shelves and how deep are they to be?
One rather easy way to support things in concrete or block walls is to
drill holes in the concrete and mortar in appropriately long pieces of
1/2 or 3/4" galvanized pipe. Two pieces of 3/4" pipe about 16-18"
long will easily support a full 50 gallon water heater...500# plus or
minus. In your case, an occasional pipe clamp would secure shelf to
pipe.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
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| Goedjn 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
| On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:56:34 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>I think I've hit on an idea...
>
>Ideally, I'm looking for a sheet metal triangle (not 3 sheet metal sides, but
>a 3-sided piece of sheet steel) with a flange on each of the 2 mounting sides
>(vertical and horizontal) for attaching to wood upright and shelving with
>screws. Heavy metal, not tin.
>
>But my eyes are getting weak from the web sites I've searched for such a
>thing. Anyone seen such?
>
>Thanks,
Yes. Home depot sells them as speed squares.
I'd be a bit surprised if you really need as
heavy a shelf bracket as you seem to think
you do. And if you DO need it, I'd be
a bit concerned out the ability of the wall
behind it to support it cantilevered out
like that. How about some numbers?
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| John E. 2007-02-16, 8:25 pm |
| Thus spake Goedjn:
> Yes. Home depot sells them as speed squares.
Yeah, that's what it reminds me of...
> I'd be a bit surprised if you really need as
> heavy a shelf bracket as you seem to think
> you do. And if you DO need it, I'd be
> a bit concerned out the ability of the wall
> behind it to support it cantilevered out
> like that. How about some numbers?
Maybe max 50 lbs per linear 3' of shelf. Probably won't reach that max.
One 8" shelf, one 12", one maybe 14" or so, one above the other.
Drill and anchor into concrete wall a 2x4 or 2x6.
One vertical 2x and a "speed square bracket every 3'.
Just first rough plan off the top of the head.
--
John English
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| Goedjn 2007-02-16, 8:25 pm |
| On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:35:31 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Thus spake Goedjn:
>
>
>Yeah, that's what it reminds me of...
>
>
>Maybe max 50 lbs per linear 3' of shelf. Probably won't reach that max.
>
>One 8" shelf, one 12", one maybe 14" or so, one above the other.
>Drill and anchor into concrete wall a 2x4 or 2x6.
>
>One vertical 2x and a "speed square bracket every 3'.
>
>Just first rough plan off the top of the head.
Regular old stamped sheetmetal shelf brackets
out of the bin at a hardware store ought to be
good for around 100 pounds each.
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"John E." <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C1FB6892017A3B0EF01826C8@news.readfreenews.net...
>I think I've hit on an idea...
>
> Ideally, I'm looking for a sheet metal triangle (not 3 sheet metal sides,
> but
> a 3-sided piece of sheet steel) with a flange on each of the 2 mounting
> sides
> (vertical and horizontal) for attaching to wood upright and shelving with
> screws. Heavy metal, not tin.
>
> But my eyes are getting weak from the web sites I've searched for such a
> thing. Anyone seen such?
Any hardware or supply store catering to farmers and ranchers will have
them. Plain vanilla heavy duty metal utility shelf brackets, that can
support 12" shelfs and be nailed or screwed off to any convenient framing
member. Ususally a strange sort of cream color paint, for some reason. I
hung dozens of them as a kid.
aem sends...
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| Larry W 2007-02-17, 3:25 am |
| In article <0001HW.C1FB35BF016E51A6F01826C8@news.readfreenews.net>,
John E. <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>
>Would like to avoid an all-2x4 lumber triangle every 36 inches -- I plan to
>span almost 20 feet of wall with these shelves, with possibly as many as 3 or
>4 shelves above the work surface. (The work surface itself is a
>self-supporting "box" design.)
>
>Bolting 2x4 to the wall is no problem. I'm just trying to avoid the use of
>vertical "post" supports into the work area.
>
An idea used for lumber racks may be applicable to your needs: In the
2X4 supports secured to the wall, drill* 13/16" holes at desired shelf
height. Insert appropriate lengtsh of 1/2" iron pipe and rest the shelves
on top of them. The holes can be angled slightly to have the shelves
slant downwards towards the wall if desired.
*Check the size before drilling, I believe 13/16' gives a snug fit
for 1/2" iron pipe but my memory is not what it used to be. If you
want, you can use 3/4" pipe for more strength, that would probably
require a hole in the 1 1/8" range or thereabouts.
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org
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| Grumman-581 2007-02-17, 1:25 pm |
| On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:58:10 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Have need for shelves to hang on tilt-up concrete (not block) wall. Must be
> sturdy, but don't want supports at the corners.
Over the years, I've come up with various solutions when I'm building
shelves... One solution was to put a 2x4 securely attached to at least
every other stud in the wall so that I have a good surface to attach
other things to... I'll then put a 2x4 along the back of where the
shelves are to be located so that it will support the rear edge of the
plank... This gives a 1.5" gap in the rear of the shelf between it and
the wall... Using a 2x4 for the rear shelf support also gives you a
good surface area to put pegs / nails in to use to hang various
tools... For the lower shelves, I'll use 6" cedar fence planks...
They're plenty deep enough for most cans and small items... I'll use
12" planks for the upper shelves (i.e. above head height)... These are
wide enough to be able to hold 5g cans paint and such... For the lower
cedar shelves, I'll cut a 45 degree right triangle out of a 2x4 and
glue and nail it to the rear 2x4 and cedar shelf... For the light
stuff, this isn't really needed, but I want to be safe... The shelf is
glued and either nailed or screwed along the rear edge...
Although you get more strength in compression than in tension, I have
designed shelves that used small wire rope attached to front of the
shelf and angled back to the vertical 2x4 that is attached to the rear
wall...
Another solution that I came up with at one time was to make my own
shelf brackets out of 1/2" square steel bar or angle iron... In some
ways, angle iron is easier since you don't need to weld any attachment
plates onto the back of it or drill holes through 1/2" of steel...
Personally, I believe that I should at least be able to suspend all of
my weight from a shelf without it breaking... Steel bar and angle iron
are fairly cheap when you buy them from a steel supply shop... You
definitely don't want to go to Home Depot or Lowes for this... The
steel supply shops sell it in 20 ft lengths, but they'll do rough cuts
for you so that you can fit it in your vehicle if necessary... For the
steel bar solution, I start with a piece of bar that is the depth of
the shelving plus the distance from the bottom of one shelf to the top
of the shelf that is below it... I then put this piece of steel bar
into a bender and bend it at a 90 degree angle at the same distance
from the end as the shelf is deep... At this point, you need a way to
attach it to the wall and shelf, so I either drill 2 holes in the
vertical and horizontal portions (i.e. 4 holes total), or I cut out 4
thinner metal rectangles (about 1.5" x 3/4") to which I weld / braze
these to the back of the bracket... I usually use 1/8" metal for these
or whatever I happen to have around the shop... With a 1.5" wide piece
of metal, you end up with a 1/2" tab on each side of the bar to which
you can drill a hole and attach a screw... At this point, you have an
"L" shape bracket with tabs welded near the top & bottom of the
vertical support and tabs welded near the front & back of the
horizontal shelf support... At this point, I measure the distance from
the ends of the "L" and cut 2 pieces of 1/2" steel bar of that length
plus about an extra half inch or so... These pieces will become the
angled support members... I place them on the sides of the "L" shape
and weld / braze them in place... I then take an angle grinder and
grind them flush with ends of the "L" portion of the bracket...
I have also made brackets out of 1/2" square bar with 2 of the "L"
shapes and a single 1/2" square bar running between the ends as the
angle support... With this solution, you still have 1.5" tabs, but
instead of putting a screw on each side of the bracket, you have a
space to put a single screw in the center of the bracket...
Of course you could use 1/2" square tubing instead of square bar, but
the cost of the tubing is nearly as much as the square bar, so I don't
see a real advantage to it...
With the angle iron solution, you basically just need to cut notches
in the angle iron, bend it at the notches, and weld the ends of the
notches together... You also need to drill some holes in the
non-notched areas of the angle iron for attachment to the wall or
shelf... If you have a angle iron notch cutter, this is a very quick
and easy solution... Personally, I like the look of the 1/2" steel bar
brackets... Being made from 1/2" steel bar, they'll virtually last
*forever*...
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