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Home > Archive > Building and Construction > June 2007 > Best concrete for setting locast posts ?
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Best concrete for setting locast posts ?
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I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.
What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
water in the hole.
What is the preferred method ??
Thanks for any advice on this !!
James
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James wrote:
> I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
> will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
> deep, and set the posts into concrete.
> <snip>
> Thanks for any advice on this !!
>
> James
Your 18" post hole seems way too shallow for a fence. Better do some
more research on local conditions and methods and then worry about
concrete mix. Typically, some metal fence posts are 7' tall and 3'
into the ground. For a relatively short fence 2' would be a good
choice. YMMV
Joe
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| Steveo 2007-06-15, 8:25 pm |
| Joe <jbobst4@aol.com> wrote:
> James wrote:
>
>
>
> Your 18" post hole seems way too shallow for a fence. Better do some
> more research on local conditions and methods and then worry about
> concrete mix. Typically, some metal fence posts are 7' tall and 3'
> into the ground. For a relatively short fence 2' would be a good
> choice. YMMV
>
> Joe
>
True enough Joe. He didn't say where he lives, or frost considerations.
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| Let's please stick with the concrete question.... these posts will be 18
inches into the ground, and about 40 inches OUT of the ground. Split rails
will be placed across the posts. This is a simple three rail fence, not a
conventional fence with 6 foot posts.
Perhaps I led you wrong on the facts.
Thanks
James
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| James wrote:
> Let's please stick with the concrete question.... these posts will be 18
> inches into the ground, and about 40 inches OUT of the ground. Split rails
> will be placed across the posts. This is a simple three rail fence, not a
> conventional fence with 6 foot posts.
>
> Perhaps I led you wrong on the facts.
Still too short in the ground, concrete or no concrete...
In a few years they'll be laying over.
--
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| James wrote:
> I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
> will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
> deep, and set the posts into concrete.
>
> What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
> Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
> mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
> But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power in
> the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil to
> harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
> water in the hole.
>
> What is the preferred method ??
>
> Thanks for any advice on this !!
>
> James
>
>
Just plain sand works great. The only posts that should be set in
concrete are the ones that need to support a gate.
--
Art
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| Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
concrete, and the method to plant them.
thanks !!
James
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| Eggs Zachtly 2007-06-16, 3:25 am |
| [flup set to a.h.l.g.]
James said:
> Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
> concrete, and the method to plant them.
>
Just curious, but when the wood rots away, how will you replace it? And,
you've been told (more than once) that the depth you've chosen isn't deep
enough, yet you insist on not heeding advice. You seem to have the answers,
so which one would you prefer to be told about the concrete?
--
Eggs
..sig not found. (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?
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| aemeijers 2007-06-16, 3:25 am |
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"Art" <Artemis@spamtrap.invalid> wrote in message
news:%kHci.3673$s57.2935@newsfe07.phx...
> James wrote:
>
> Just plain sand works great. The only posts that should be set in concrete
> are the ones that need to support a gate.
>
I would agree. But any set in concrete should not be set completely in
concrete- a couple inches of gravel in bottom, then post, then 1/3 or so of
the hole with tamped gravel, then concrete. Give the water a place to go,
instead of bottom of post always being wet. Locust takes awhile to rot, but
anything rots eventually.
aem sends...
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| gpsman 2007-06-16, 3:25 am |
| On Jun 15, 9:08 pm, "James" <jnipper...@nospamfdn.com> wrote:
> Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
> concrete, and the method to plant them.
The best concrete to set posts is none. A couple inches of gravel in
the bottom and ALL the dirt back in the hole is the "proper" method.
And 18" is too shallow; a waste of, time, effort, money -and- concrete
if you're still set on using it. 30" is minimum and probably code,
and 36" is better.
Locust is the best choice for the posts, but you'd be better off
setting them on fire rather than in concrete. Nothing lasts forever,
try digging out a post set in concrete. By the time you're finished
you'll have changed your mind, if you live through it.
The concrete mix doesn't matter, any one will rot your posts as well
as another.
-----
- gpsman
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| Big_Jake 2007-06-16, 3:25 am |
| On Jun 15, 9:57 pm, gpsman <gps...@driversmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 9:08 pm, "James" <jnipper...@nospamfdn.com> wrote:
>
>
> The best concrete to set posts is none. A couple inches of gravel in
> the bottom and ALL the dirt back in the hole is the "proper" method.
>
> And 18" is too shallow; a waste of, time, effort, money -and- concrete
> if you're still set on using it. 30" is minimum and probably code,
> and 36" is better.
>
> Locust is the best choice for the posts, but you'd be better off
> setting them on fire rather than in concrete. Nothing lasts forever,
> try digging out a post set in concrete. By the time you're finished
> you'll have changed your mind, if you live through it.
>
> The concrete mix doesn't matter, any one will rot your posts as well
> as another.
> -----
>
> - gpsman
I guess I will at least answer your question -
Most big home centers carry "post-set" concrete. You dig the hole,
put the post in (with space around it) fill the space around the post
with dry mix, add water, and mix it up by pushing a pc of rebar up and
down in the "soup". Sets quickly, works fine and is very convenient.
JK
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| neognomic via HomeKB.com 2007-06-16, 3:25 am |
| James wrote:
>Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
>concrete, and the method to plant them.
>
>thanks !!
>
>James
James:
If you are set on using concrete even though it is not needed, do not use
quickset. It sets too fast for the job you are doing at the experience level
you have. It is not that good for posts anyway ...
The 18" is good enuf for posts 3.5' above GL if you have normal soil but as
another said, pack the bottom inch or two with gravel. Also dig the hole in
the shape of an inverted paper cup -bigger at the bottom. There should be
about two inches or more of concrete on all sides (and corners! ) of the post
so make the hole wide enough to accommodate that.
Use the post setting dry mix concrete and place a couple of inches in the
bottom before setting the post. That insures concrete covering bottom.
Set the post in the hole, brace and level it so it is straight and add some
water, a cup or two; then fill in the rest of the hole with the dry mix.
Pack it a little, then wet it down with another cup or two of water and move
on to next post.
Bracing method can be found on the net. Basically, two 1x2 boards loosely
nailed to the post (on adjacent sides) and wedged into the ground. You'll
need to leave the braces on for a long time ...see the dry mix post setting
instructions. And, BTW, one cannot use regular concrete mix as a dry mix -the
proportions of portland cement, sand and aggregate are not the same.
Most posts fail at ground level so be sure to have a cap of concrete or at
least dirt up around the post for ~ an inch or two so the water will run away
from the post and not pool around it.
Hthelps ...
--
Message posted via http://www.homekb.com
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| "James" <jnipperxxx@nospamfdn.com> wrote in message
news:Q_SdnS552sVIt-7bnZ2dnUVZ_rGinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The
> posts
> will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
> deep, and set the posts into concrete.
>
> What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
> Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
> mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
> But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power
> in
> the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil
> to
> harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
> water in the hole.
>
> What is the preferred method ??
>
> Thanks for any advice on this !!
>
> James
>
>
TX hill country. Fractured limestone is immediately below the soil. Only a
rock bar and alot of sweat, or, a diamond tipped auger can cut it. 18" is
typical depth for corner and tensioning posts on typical pasture fence.
Wood or steel posts.
Guess answers for this are kinda like gardening, depends on the
conditions... Sandy soil, clay, swamp, gravel, or rocky in your case.
I pre-mixed, wetter than usual, the concrete prior to pouring in the hole
with the post. Used rocks to stabilize the post during the pour, then fine
tuned the plumb after the pour. Set the corners first.
Dave
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"Big_Jake" <I.do.realestate@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181964996.569989.266410@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
><snip>
>
> I guess I will at least answer your question -
>
> Most big home centers carry "post-set" concrete. You dig the
> hole,
> put the post in (with space around it) fill the space around the
> post
> with dry mix, add water, and mix it up by pushing a pc of rebar up
> and
> down in the "soup". Sets quickly, works fine and is very
> convenient.
>
> JK
>
Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree about putting dry mix in the
hole.
I have seen this done, but I have never seen it work well - fences
were always leaning within 3 or 4 months. It is not possible to
mix the concrete in the hole - there will always be dry pockets no
matter how much poking and prodding is done.
Mix your concrete in a wheelbarrow and pour it into the hole.
Bob-tx
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| >I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
>will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
>deep, and set the posts into concrete.
>
>What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
>Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
>mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
>But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power in
>the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil to
>harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
>water in the hole.
If your posts are dimensional (4x4 or 6x6) the following process
worked well for me. If your posts are roundish, then simply set them
in the holes with a few inches of gravel in the bottom, and use
quickcrete (regular or quick setting - it's up to you.) that has been
mixed to a pretty thick consistency. Level the post in all directions
and cross-brace for 24 hours before adding attachments.
If using dimentional lumber, the way I did the posts all around my
house, is to:
1. String a centerline along the length of the fence run.
2. Dig the hole to desired depth (in my case, 24").
3. Insert 10" sonnet tube that has been cut to desired length/height.
4. Backfill, leveling the tube along the way.
5. Mix quickcrete (regular or quick setting - It's up to you.)
6. Fill the tube with mixed quickcrete.
7. Set post anchor according to the centerline.
8. After concrete is dry, test fit posts, mark holes, drill holes, and
bolt posts into post anchors.
The fence is now over 14 years old. No rot, no leaning.
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Dave <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote:
>TX hill country. Fractured limestone is immediately below the soil. Only a
>rock bar and alot of sweat, or, a diamond tipped auger can cut it. 18" is
>typical depth for corner and tensioning posts on typical pasture fence...
We might make a fence with no post holes, just stakes in the ground
for cables. Or use T-posts with diagonal corner bracing.
Nick
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| digitalmaster 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
|
"James" <jnipperxxx@nospamfdn.com> wrote in message
news:Q_SdnS552sVIt-7bnZ2dnUVZ_rGinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The
> posts
> will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
> deep, and set the posts into concrete.
>
> What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
> Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
> mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
> But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power
> in
> the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil
> to
> harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
> water in the hole.
>
> What is the preferred method ??
>
> Thanks for any advice on this !!
>
> James
>
>
You can just pour dry mix around the post.if you wish add a little water on
top to speed setting.In a few days it will be hard, meanwhile the dry mix
will hold the post in place.
Be aware the posts will need to be replaced eventually ,then you will have
to deal with the concrete.
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| hallerb@aol.com 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
|
> Be aware the posts will need to be replaced eventually ,then you will have
> to deal with the concrete.- Hide quoted text -
>
yeah and they fail faster in concrete.
but as a friend says its your back
OP can think about this as he digs up his rotted posts and concrete
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| James wrote:
> Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
> concrete, and the method to plant them.
>
> thanks !!
>
>
> James
>
>
There is no "best". The kind of concrete is irrelevant. As long as it is
mixed properly any concrete will do what you want.
--
Art
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| hallerb@aol.com 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
|
>
> There is no "best". The kind of concrete is irrelevant. As long as it is
> mixed properly any concrete will do what you want.
>
If OP INSITS on concreting them in secure them in place, tied off with
ropes or something, use dry mix its more convenient, leave set tied up
a week or so flood area a couple times, so its all hardened
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| >
> I pre-mixed, wetter than usual,
Why wetter then usual?
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| digitalmaster 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
|
<hallerb@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1181997119.471761.112080@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> yeah and they fail faster in concrete.
>
> but as a friend says its your back
>
> OP can think about this as he digs up his rotted posts and concrete
>
>
the best idea I've seen was in England where the entire post was concrete
with slots to put wooden rails in.It was very nice looking and very durable.
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| "Ook" <Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam> wrote in message
news:M-ednafn86jKm-nbnZ2dnUVZ_vXinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> Why wetter then usual?
>
If you hadn't deleted the reason, which is in my previous reply, I could
have pointed it out to you. You only scoped one sentence, actually 1/2, and
presented a question to that.
Dave
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| Dave wrote:
>
> TX hill country. Fractured limestone is immediately below the soil. Only a
> rock bar and alot of sweat, or, a diamond tipped auger can cut it. 18" is
> typical depth for corner and tensioning posts on typical pasture fence.
> Wood or steel posts.
>
> Guess answers for this are kinda like gardening, depends on the
> conditions... Sandy soil, clay, swamp, gravel, or rocky in your case.
>
> I pre-mixed, wetter than usual, the concrete prior to pouring in the hole
> with the post. Used rocks to stabilize the post during the pour, then fine
> tuned the plumb after the pour. Set the corners first.
> Dave
>
>
Why "wetter than usual"?
--
Art
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| "Art" <Artemis@spamtrap.invalid> wrote in message
news:uLGdi.386071$ZA5.284198@newsfe15.phx...
> Dave wrote:
>
>
> Why "wetter than usual"?
>
> --
> Art
Because I used rocks inside the holes to stabilize the posts before the
pour. Wetter concrete assured me I had complete concrete saturation around
and under those rocks. No cavitation due to too dry a mix for that
situation. I used the inverted mushroom hole type. No gravel on bottom.
Stabilized bottom with suitably sized rocks, then top allowing at least 2"
above that topmost rock to concrete surface. Used level for plumb both
ways.
After the pour, I re-checked plumb and made minor adjustments if needed.
I did the tensioning posts similarly, except, I used a 3/4" offset
stringline for alignment with corners bottom and top. Stringline used for
rough, removed, then installed again after pour for final alignment. Of
course, the 90 degree opposite direction plumb was with a level.
A few neighbors in the area said to go with 5000 psi bagged concrete instead
of the 3000 psi version. They said they had no cracking problems with it
over time. Makes sense as sometimes 2 feet or more of the limestone rocks
will displace when using a rock pick or auger at the surface. Leaving
bigger area (hole) at surface to pour. Can't be helped. So, I used that
instead.
Dave
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