Construction forum - Quick Questions concerning Rough Construction and the Garage I am Building.....

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Quick Questions concerning Rough Construction and the Garage I am Building.....

Solomon_Man

2007-09-11, 9:25 am

All,
I have built or have helped build three garages this summer. I have
done other garages in the past one here and there for friends. I am no
means a expert but I do know my way around tools and construction as
my dad was a General Contractor for 30 yrs (until his death) and I
worked my way through high school and college doing construction.

My first garage this summer, I helped build was a 26X40 for a friend.
Everything was 1/2 OSB, 2X4X10@ 16" O.C, no windows, standard trusses
@ 24 inchs,2 garage doors on the none load sides (peak side) of the
garage. It came out beautiful.

The second was moving my friends original 14X20 garage that was built
in the late 1950's over to my home reconstructing it on a new concrete
pad. Everything on the garage was 3/4 plywood/board for sheathing,
2X4X8@ 24" O.C., 3 small windows, roof peak was not trusses but
"custom" built with 2X6, garage door on none load side (peak). I am
very happy with it. It came out beautiful.

Then there is the current one, that is where my questions come up, and
I somewhat concerned about.

The garage is a 24X32. It is wood frame like the others on a new
concrete pad as well. The garage is built 2X4X10 @ 16" O.C, 1/2 OSB
Everything, 3 Larger windows (40 inchX40 inch), and one smaller
window(23X40), Garage Door on Load Bearing Side (32 foot side), Garage
has 2 Large and heavy LVL Beams that were speced out by city officials
for over the garage door. All Windows use normally built Headers (2 -
2X8s with sandwhich 1/2 plywood).

So my concerns;

As I was unsure of the exact window size when I built the garage I
made my headers slightly larger then the windows. So the header is
supported basically on the ends like it should and then it has a
additional support before entering the window frame area.

Is this OK? Are headers allowed to be larger then the window layout
assuming the 16" O.C
framing of the wall is maintained? The largest header is 53". So there
is like 6-8 inches on the side larger then it needs to be.

Then there is another thing that I am concerned about, on the none
load bearing side (24 foot side) of the garage. I have tied the wall
down with anchors into the concrete (I have actually have one or two
extra on each wall) and the tops of the wall are tied into the
trusses. The roof and windows are currently installed. The 24 foot
none load bearing wall seems to give a little in the center, not at
the sides as you would get to the corner. If you smack it (I am
230lb), it will vibrate a little all the way up to the roof. Its not
bad enough thats going to come down or anything but compared to the
load bearing side of the same garage and the other garages, which are
built slightly different, it vibrates. The load bearing side is solid.

I know it will not be as firm as the smaller garage as it is built
with 3/4 and only 8 foot walls.
The 26X40 one I helped build has its doors on both ends and the 40
foot walls are on the load bearing side, so I can say that is not a
really good comparison.

Is this normal?
Did I forget something?

Again the trusses are tied to the top of the wall and the base is tied
to concrete.
I believe it is not the headers causing me problems cause the problem
only appears on the none load bearing side in the center.

I am considering running a 2X8 across what would be the bottom of the
trusses (roof ties/ceiling joists) in the center to see if that would
firm it up a little. There is already 2X8's (left over wood from
another project) running across both sides of the trusses (roof ties/
ceiling joists). So when I am done, I would have three strips of 2X8
lumber on the trusses (roof ties/ceiling joists).

Any suggestion or ideas?

Thanks,
Chris

Michael \(LS\)

2007-09-12, 5:25 pm

"Solomon_Man" <cmgray74@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189519176.608350.35360@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> All,
> I have built or have helped build three garages this summer. I have
> done other garages in the past one here and there for friends. I am no
> means a expert but I do know my way around tools and construction as
> my dad was a General Contractor for 30 yrs (until his death) and I
> worked my way through high school and college doing construction.
>
> My first garage this summer, I helped build was a 26X40 for a friend.
> Everything was 1/2 OSB, 2X4X10@ 16" O.C, no windows, standard trusses
> @ 24 inchs,2 garage doors on the none load sides (peak side) of the
> garage. It came out beautiful.
>
> The second was moving my friends original 14X20 garage that was built
> in the late 1950's over to my home reconstructing it on a new concrete
> pad. Everything on the garage was 3/4 plywood/board for sheathing,
> 2X4X8@ 24" O.C., 3 small windows, roof peak was not trusses but
> "custom" built with 2X6, garage door on none load side (peak). I am
> very happy with it. It came out beautiful.
>
> Then there is the current one, that is where my questions come up, and
> I somewhat concerned about.
>
> The garage is a 24X32. It is wood frame like the others on a new
> concrete pad as well. The garage is built 2X4X10 @ 16" O.C, 1/2 OSB
> Everything, 3 Larger windows (40 inchX40 inch), and one smaller
> window(23X40), Garage Door on Load Bearing Side (32 foot side), Garage
> has 2 Large and heavy LVL Beams that were speced out by city officials
> for over the garage door. All Windows use normally built Headers (2 -
> 2X8s with sandwhich 1/2 plywood).
>
> So my concerns;
>
> As I was unsure of the exact window size when I built the garage I
> made my headers slightly larger then the windows. So the header is
> supported basically on the ends like it should and then it has a
> additional support before entering the window frame area.
>
> Is this OK? Are headers allowed to be larger then the window layout
> assuming the 16" O.C
> framing of the wall is maintained? The largest header is 53". So there
> is like 6-8 inches on the side larger then it needs to be.

The window rough opening (in other words: the length of the header) is fine
if it's larger than need be. It's not ideal, but it's fine as long as the
span/weight load isn't too great for the header (you can't take a header
designed to span 4' and then have it span 8'). What you're describing (if I
understand it correctly) is just a header that extends past the bearing
point. As long as the unsupported span is not too wide for the header to
carry. When I design screen porches/sunrooms I normally spec a continuous
header around the perimeter of the room and then bearing "posts" between the
screens/windows. The header would fail (deflect/bend) if it was only
supported at the ends but since there's 3 or 4 bearing points per span it's
equal to a bunch of shorter headers, just simplier construction.

Keep in mind you'll want to infill the rough opening so that the windows can
be securely shimmed and fastened!

> Then there is another thing that I am concerned about, on the none
> load bearing side (24 foot side) of the garage. I have tied the wall
> down with anchors into the concrete (I have actually have one or two
> extra on each wall) and the tops of the wall are tied into the
> trusses. The roof and windows are currently installed. The 24 foot
> none load bearing wall seems to give a little in the center, not at
> the sides as you would get to the corner. If you smack it (I am
> 230lb), it will vibrate a little all the way up to the roof. Its not
> bad enough thats going to come down or anything but compared to the
> load bearing side of the same garage and the other garages, which are
> built slightly different, it vibrates. The load bearing side is solid.

Unclear here.... Is just sheathing vibrating or is the whole wall flexing?
Big difference!!! The info you provided isn't complete so here's how I
design a typical non-load bearing garage wall:

Siding
Sheathing - osb or plywood, thickness determined by siding type and weather
(wind loads)
2x4 (2x6 if it's to be fully insulated) studs @ 16" o.c. - sill plate anchor
bolted to curb 6' o.c. - double top plates overlapped (i.e. staggered seams)
Optional insulation/vapor barrier
Optional interior finish - none, gypsum board, masonite, plywood, etc.

Try this test, have someone on the inside of the garage hold onto the stud
wall (touching only the studs) and you smack the sheathing on the outside.
Is it the same "vibration" as when the studs are not braced? This will help
you determine if the studs themselves are part of the problem (not anchored
sufficiently, top & bottom plates aren't bracing correctly, etc.) or just
the sheathing (Is it tongue&groove? Is it nailed or screwed? etc.)

> I know it will not be as firm as the smaller garage as it is built
> with 3/4 and only 8 foot walls.
> The 26X40 one I helped build has its doors on both ends and the 40
> foot walls are on the load bearing side, so I can say that is not a
> really good comparison.
>
> Is this normal?
> Did I forget something?
>
> Again the trusses are tied to the top of the wall and the base is tied
> to concrete.
> I believe it is not the headers causing me problems cause the problem
> only appears on the none load bearing side in the center.

IF the top and bottom of the wall is securely held by the trusses &
curb/slab then the problem is in the middle of the wall. Shoddy
construction could cause this I guess - studs not cut correctly &/or "gappy"
at plates, wall built in sections that aren't properly attached to each
other, warped studs, sheathing not securely fastened, sheathing joints not
at stud locations, etc.

> I am considering running a 2X8 across what would be the bottom of the
> trusses (roof ties/ceiling joists) in the center to see if that would
> firm it up a little. There is already 2X8's (left over wood from
> another project) running across both sides of the trusses (roof ties/
> ceiling joists). So when I am done, I would have three strips of 2X8
> lumber on the trusses (roof ties/ceiling joists).

You have a 2x8 (laying horizontally - 2"high, 8"wide) attached to the bottom
of the trusses on each side? Is it in any way attached to the walls?
Adding a third in the middle isn't going to do any more than the roof
sheathing and (2) 2x8's you already have. You said you used scrap wood, so
are the pieces really short and therefore not really bracing more than one
trusses to the next as opposed to making the whole thing one big solid unit?

> Any suggestion or ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Chris
>

HTH,

Michael (LS)

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