UK gardening - Acer Palmatum help

Author

Acer Palmatum help

Mark Thomas

2005-10-22, 8:21 am

Hi,

Can anyone off advice on looking after a potted Acer Palatum.

A bit of background
-------------------

Brought the tree earlier this year and its potted in a large metal pot
about 2.5 feet high by the same wide.

It was potted into peat free compost and has been located in directly
opposite an alley way which can be a bit of a wind tunnel.

Problem
-------
The last few months have shown an alarming rate of death of the leaves,
starting off as the tips dying (like wind burn - no surprise really
given it's locale) and now most of the leaves have fallen.

I assume most of this leaf loss is because it is deciduous - the rest of
the tree looks ok and there are buds all along the branches and they
look healthy.

We have moved the tree to a more sheltered spot and have been watering
regularly.

Is this tree going to be ok or have we killed it?

Thanks

Mark

Mark Thomas

2005-10-22, 8:21 am

Mark Thomas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone off advice on looking after a potted Acer Palatum.
>
>

Should have also mentioned it is a "lace leaf" variety - fine wispy red
leaves.

Mark

Sacha

2005-10-22, 8:21 am

On 22/10/05 12:04, in article v1p6f.861$iZ4.497@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net, "Mark
Thomas" <marksthomas@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Can anyone off advice on looking after a potted Acer Palatum.
>
> A bit of background
> -------------------
>
> Brought the tree earlier this year and its potted in a large metal pot
> about 2.5 feet high by the same wide.
>
> It was potted into peat free compost and has been located in directly
> opposite an alley way which can be a bit of a wind tunnel.
>
>
> Problem
> -------
> The last few months have shown an alarming rate of death of the leaves,
> starting off as the tips dying (like wind burn - no surprise really
> given it's locale) and now most of the leaves have fallen.
>
> I assume most of this leaf loss is because it is deciduous - the rest of
> the tree looks ok and there are buds all along the branches and they
> look healthy.
>
> We have moved the tree to a more sheltered spot and have been watering
> regularly.
>
> Is this tree going to be ok or have we killed it?
>
If you've moved it to a more sheltered spot, you've give it a good chance.
There are two things they absolutely loathe, being in wind and too much
water........ Perhaps you should start reducing the water you are giving
it so that it reaches almost drying out point and do make sure that it is
draining well after each watering, whether by you or by nature. Raise the
pot a little off the ground so that water can drain out of holes in the
bottom.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Mark Thomas

2005-10-22, 8:21 am

> If you've moved it to a more sheltered spot, you've give it a good chance.
> There are two things they absolutely loathe, being in wind and too much
> water........ Perhaps you should start reducing the water you are giving
> it so that it reaches almost drying out point and do make sure that it is
> draining well after each watering, whether by you or by nature. Raise the
> pot a little off the ground so that water can drain out of holes in the
> bottom.

Thanks for the reply!

I think when we potted it we haven't given it enough drainage.

If we were to remove the tree from the pot and refill with a more free
draining mix would this damage the tree, i.e. shock it too much?

I could also tip the pot and drill a lot more holes in the bottom of the
pot than there are currently.

Can you recommend a good feed for it?

Mark

keith ;-\)

2005-10-22, 9:21 am

"Mark Thomas" <marksthomas@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:K8p6f.5141$S_1.1915@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>
chance.[color=darkred]
giving[color=darkred]
is[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
>
> Thanks for the reply!
>
> I think when we potted it we haven't given it enough drainage.
>
> If we were to remove the tree from the pot and refill with a more free
> draining mix would this damage the tree, i.e. shock it too much?
>
> I could also tip the pot and drill a lot more holes in the bottom of the
> pot than there are currently.
>
> Can you recommend a good feed for it?
>
> Mark

I killed my first Acer ,cause bad drainage.They like to potted into a pot
slightly larger than the one it was originally in.So the roots are not
sitting in compost it will not use.So do not over pot.I would take it out of
the pot it is in ,choose a pot that is just big enough to get the rootball &
a bit of compost around the roots.Put polystyrene chunks in the bottom of
the pot for drainage.I would use JI 2 or 3 & a ericaceous compost mixed in
equal amounts.It shouldn't need watering much through autumn/winter,if it
all.Put it in dappled shade,it wont need feeding until it is in growth again
next year,someone I spoke to knows someone with a Acer nursery he
recommended tomato feed.I top dress in spring with composted leaf mould.Also
scratch the bark and see if it is still green underneath to see if the plant
is still alive and actually worth saving.It should be o.k as it hasn't been
sat in cold/wet compost through winter yet,so you may have just saved it in
time!
Cheers Keith.

Mark Thomas

2005-10-22, 9:21 am

> scratch the bark and see if it is still green underneath to see if the plant
> is still alive and actually worth saving.It should be o.k as it hasn't been
> sat in cold/wet compost through winter yet,so you may have just saved it in
> time!
>

Yeh, its green - so ok so far.

A trip to the garden centre is in order i think

Thanks

Mark

La puce

2005-10-22, 9:21 am

Sacha wrote:
> If you've moved it to a more sheltered spot, you've give it a good chance.
> There are two things they absolutely loathe, being in wind and too much
> water........

And I would also add that it hates its leaves brushing against a fence
or wall. I moved mine twice. First time it was in too much wind, second
the leaves brushed against the fence and looked like they all were
burnt.

La puce

2005-10-22, 9:21 am

keith ;-) wrote:
It should be o.k as it hasn't been
> sat in cold/wet compost through winter yet,so you may have just saved it in
> time!

Keith, Sacha, my acer has now grown out of its pot, in one year. The
tree is perhaps 8 years old. Still in its pot, pot on the earth, it has
anchored itself so strongly through the bottom hole, that I cannot move
the pot anymore. It looks happy, last year the leaves were not so red,
but this year it gave us a magnificient display and it looks nice in
its pot. Now, if you were me, what would you do? I could cut the pot in
two (huge plastic one) and trench around to lower it in, but I must go
underneath too. The task is huge I think.

I keep turning a blind eye to it. But now it looks like I'll lose it
sooner than I should if I don't do something about it.

Mike Lyle

2005-10-22, 10:21 am

Mark Thomas wrote:
o.k[color=darkred]
you[color=darkred]
>
> Yeh, its green - so ok so far.
>
> A trip to the garden centre is in order i think

>
> Thanks
>
> Mark

I'd like to underline Keith's excellent advice: they really hate
being in too big a pot, for the reason he explained. Personally, I
prefer broken crocks, cinders, rough stones as the drainage material:
I'm always afraid even rigid plastic foam will get squashed or break
down over time in a bigger container, but Keith clearly knows what
he's talking about, so it seems I'm wrong.

--
Mike.

keith ;-\)

2005-10-22, 11:21 am

"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3rupbgFlkk4qU1@individual.net...
> Mark Thomas wrote:
> o.k
> you
>
> I'd like to underline Keith's excellent advice: they really hate
> being in too big a pot, for the reason he explained. Personally, I
> prefer broken crocks, cinders, rough stones as the drainage material:
> I'm always afraid even rigid plastic foam will get squashed or break
> down over time in a bigger container, but Keith clearly knows what
> he's talking about, so it seems I'm wrong.
>
> --
> Mike.
>
I dont think there is a wrong or right way when it comes to crocks for
drainage.I prefer the polystyrene as it is obviously lighter,and when you
are using a big pot it helps.I also use the polystyrene for drainage in pots
for my orchids and have so far found no evidence that it breaksdown or gets
squashed.Everytime i have repotted the polystyrene is the same as the day i
put it in. Maybe someone else has had a different experience with it.May be
another topic.
Cheers Keith
>

Sacha

2005-10-22, 12:21 pm

On 22/10/05 12:12, in article K8p6f.5141$S_1.1915@newsfe5-win.ntli.net,
"Mark Thomas" <marksthomas@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Thanks for the reply!
>
> I think when we potted it we haven't given it enough drainage.
>
> If we were to remove the tree from the pot and refill with a more free
> draining mix would this damage the tree, i.e. shock it too much?

I went and checked this with Ray who *is* the expert. ;-) He says please
leave it until spring to re-pot it and then put it in something like John
Innes No. 3. He doesn't see any need to feed it. He stresses that you
should let it dry out now and leave watering to nature, allowing drain holes
to do their work and keeping it sheltered from wind.
<snip>
But he is adamant that you should wait until spring to re-pot it and most
especially if you're going to put it into a larger pot.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Sacha

2005-10-22, 12:21 pm

On 22/10/05 13:08, in article
1129982929.994029.9470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "La puce"
<helene@rudlin.co.uk> wrote:

>
> keith ;-) wrote:
> It should be o.k as it hasn't been
>
> Keith, Sacha, my acer has now grown out of its pot, in one year. The
> tree is perhaps 8 years old. Still in its pot, pot on the earth, it has
> anchored itself so strongly through the bottom hole, that I cannot move
> the pot anymore. It looks happy, last year the leaves were not so red,
> but this year it gave us a magnificient display and it looks nice in
> its pot. Now, if you were me, what would you do? I could cut the pot in
> two (huge plastic one) and trench around to lower it in, but I must go
> underneath too. The task is huge I think.
>
> I keep turning a blind eye to it. But now it looks like I'll lose it
> sooner than I should if I don't do something about it.
>

Is there any reason to think you're going to lose it? We sometimes get
older shrubs or trees growing through their pots and usually they just stay
put quite happily. Some grow right through the Mypex and into the earth
beneath the glasshouses!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

keith ;-\)

2005-10-22, 1:21 pm

"Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BF80131E.21C08%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk...
> On 22/10/05 12:12, in article K8p6f.5141$S_1.1915@newsfe5-win.ntli.net,
> "Mark Thomas" <marksthomas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
chance.[color=darkred]
giving[color=darkred]
is[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
>
> I went and checked this with Ray who *is* the expert. ;-) He says please
> leave it until spring to re-pot it and then put it in something like John
> Innes No. 3. He doesn't see any need to feed it. He stresses that you
> should let it dry out now and leave watering to nature, allowing drain
holes
> to do their work and keeping it sheltered from wind.
> <snip>
> But he is adamant that you should wait until spring to re-pot it and most
> especially if you're going to put it into a larger pot.
> --
> Sacha
> www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
> South Devon
> (remove the weeds to email me)

I dont agree wait til spring in this case,as it sounds like the acer is
already overpotted with little drainage.A cold wet winter for a acer in a
pot with poor drainage will certainly most likely kill it! Remember Sacha
this is a rescue job!!
If it is a general repot to a larger pot then yes i would wait til spring
when the plant is just starting growth.So it will start to take in the
moisture in the compost instead of sitting in it.
Cheers Keith
>

Rod Craddock

2005-10-22, 5:21 pm

"Mark Thomas" <marksthomas@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:v1p6f.861$iZ4.497@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone off advice on looking after a potted Acer Palatum.
>
First off - if you don't have to, don't grow it in a pot. They are not
easy to manage in pots though I can see why folks like to have 'em in
pots. If you can find a place to plant it with a bit of shelter and
some nice well drained acid soil with lots of humus it will be much
happier.
--
Rod

My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp
Just remove the weedy bits
and transplant the appropriate symbol at.

Sacha

2005-10-22, 7:21 pm

On 22/10/05 17:07, in article 0tt6f.1544$Jl3.1022@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net,
"keith ;-)" <@REMOVETHISntlworld.com> wrote:

>
> "Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:BF80131E.21C08%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk...
> chance.
> giving
> is
> the
> holes
>
> I dont agree wait til spring in this case,as it sounds like the acer is
> already overpotted with little drainage.A cold wet winter for a acer in a
> pot with poor drainage will certainly most likely kill it! Remember Sacha
> this is a rescue job!!
> If it is a general repot to a larger pot then yes i would wait til spring
> when the plant is just starting growth.So it will start to take in the
> moisture in the compost instead of sitting in it.
> Cheers Keith
>
>
Up to Mark, then. It is NOT a rescue job, in fact. Mark already states
that his tree has buds on it. So, all he needs to do is to let the compost
dry out, provide good drainage and keep the tree out of cold winds. This
tree needs to be left in peace, frankly!
It is entirely up to him but Ray is against re-potting at this time of year
and in this instance, there is no need for it. If the pot can be allowed to
drain and dry, there is no reason to do so. According to Mark, the pot has
drainage holes and I don't recall him saying that the tree is over-potted.
What he needs to do is leave the blessed thing alone!
More of these trees are killed by hovering, anxious owners than anything
else. However, it is his tree and the choices are his.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

La puce

2005-10-22, 7:21 pm

Sacha wrote:

> Is there any reason to think you're going to lose it? We sometimes get
> older shrubs or trees growing through their pots and usually they just stay
> put quite happily. Some grow right through the Mypex and into the earth
> beneath the glasshouses!

Marvelous stuff! I think it looks happy. There's plenty of room for it
to stretch its roots, just some few under planting of spring flowers
and ground ivy. I think I'll just leave it like it is. Thanks Sacha.

Mark Thomas

2005-10-23, 5:21 am

anyone off advice on looking after a potted Acer Palatum.
> First off - if you don't have to, don't grow it in a pot. They are not
> easy to manage in pots though I can see why folks like to have 'em in
> pots. If you can find a place to plant it with a bit of shelter and
> some nice well drained acid soil with lots of humus it will be much
> happier.

Well, mainly in a pot because this is a rented house and I really dont
want to get a tree established only to have to move it when we do - and
since we are going to be here for a few years it wouldnt be fair.

If this was our own house I would have put it in the ground

Mark

keith ;-\)

2005-10-23, 3:21 pm

"keith ;-)" <@REMOVETHISntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:0tt6f.1544$Jl3.1022@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:BF80131E.21C08%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk...
> chance.
much[color=darkred]
> giving
it[color=darkred]
> is
Raise[color=darkred]
> the
the[color=darkred]
please[color=darkred]
John[color=darkred]
> holes
most[color=darkred]
>
> I dont agree wait til spring in this case,as it sounds like the acer is
> already overpotted with little drainage.A cold wet winter for a acer in a
> pot with poor drainage will certainly most likely kill it! Remember Sacha
> this is a rescue job!!
> If it is a general repot to a larger pot then yes i would wait til spring
> when the plant is just starting growth.So it will start to take in the
> moisture in the compost instead of sitting in it.
> Cheers Keith
Mark,Your best bet is to lift the tree from the pot and see if the rootball
comes out whole( ,if it does put loads more drainage holes in the pot and
keep the pot off the ground.Keep the tree in the same pot.Then repot spring
as earlier post.This assuming the acer HASNT been overpotted,if it has and
you lift the acer from the pot and the pot is still full of compost ,leaving
it in this you risk killing the plant.You now have enough information to
decide what is best for your acer & if you have done anything wrong when you
first potted it up ,i am sure you will do the right thing.
Cheers Keith[color=darkred]
>
>

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