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Home > Archive > UK gardening > July 2005 > Phonetic plant names
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Phonetic plant names
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| Paul Giverin 2005-07-29, 5:21 am |
| I was just about to post here asking if anyone knew of an online guide
to phonetic pronunciation of plant names. After many years of gardening,
I still manage to embarrass myself in front of friends and colleagues
with some of my pronunciation 
Anyway, before posting I did another "google" and came up with this:-
http://tinyurl.com/cexua
.... which I hope someone else might find useful.
--
Paul Giverin
British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk
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| Broadback 2005-07-29, 9:21 am |
| Paul Giverin wrote:
> I was just about to post here asking if anyone knew of an online guide
> to phonetic pronunciation of plant names. After many years of gardening,
> I still manage to embarrass myself in front of friends and colleagues
> with some of my pronunciation
>
> Anyway, before posting I did another "google" and came up with this:-
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cexua
>
> ... which I hope someone else might find useful.
>
Thanks Paul, I find that useful. For years I thought it was "cotton
easter" until someone put me right! :-)
--
All replies to this email address are deleted on receipt.
Common sense, not common market.
| |
| martin 2005-07-29, 9:21 am |
| On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:32:19 +0100, Broadback <wen@towill.plus.com>
wrote:
>Paul Giverin wrote:
>Thanks Paul, I find that useful. For years I thought it was "cotton
>easter" until someone put me right! :-)
Cotton easter dam 'er eyes?
--
Martin
| |
| michael adams 2005-07-29, 10:21 am |
|
"Paul Giverin" <paul@giverin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6SFGDiBfed6CFw0C@10.0.0.3...
> I was just about to post here asking if anyone knew of an online guide
> to phonetic pronunciation of plant names. After many years of gardening,
> I still manage to embarrass myself in front of friends and colleagues
> with some of my pronunciation
>
> Anyway, before posting I did another "google" and came up with this:-
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cexua
>
> ... which I hope someone else might find useful.
....
This is maybe one of the main benefits of listening to "Gardeners'
Question Time" on a regular basis, as the "correct" pronunciations,
or at least in the past maybe, Geoffrey Smith's version of some of them,
are absorbed almost subconsciously. Which can work the other way
around as well, when trying to find things like "ceanothus" in
catalogues, confident it must start with an "S".
michael adams
....
>
> --
> Paul Giverin
>
> British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk
| |
| Sacha 2005-07-29, 11:21 am |
| On 29/7/05 13:57, in article 3kuna0F108dffU1@individual.net, "michael adams"
<mjadams28@onetel.com> wrote:
>
> "Paul Giverin" <paul@giverin.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:6SFGDiBfed6CFw0C@10.0.0.3...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ...
>
> This is maybe one of the main benefits of listening to "Gardeners'
> Question Time" on a regular basis, as the "correct" pronunciations,
> or at least in the past maybe, Geoffrey Smith's version of some of them,
> are absorbed almost subconsciously. Which can work the other way
> around as well, when trying to find things like "ceanothus" in
> catalogues, confident it must start with an "S".
>
But 'correct' depends on where and when people learned Latin. Think of
'lichen' - to some it's pronounced 'liken' and to others 'litchen'. Some
say "Nyefofeea" and others 'Nipoffeea" for Kniphofia. I say CLEMatis, my
husband says CleMAYtis etc. etc.
--
Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)
| |
| JennyC 2005-07-29, 11:21 am |
|
"Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote
> But 'correct' depends on where and when people learned Latin. Think of
> 'lichen' - to some it's pronounced 'liken' and to others 'litchen'. Some
> say "Nyefofeea" and others 'Nipoffeea" for Kniphofia. I say CLEMatis, my
> husband says CleMAYtis etc. etc.
> Sacha
And I say Knip-Fol-ia :~)
Jenny
| |
| michael adams 2005-07-29, 11:21 am |
|
"Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BF0FEC4B.1C512%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk...
> On 29/7/05 13:57, in article 3kuna0F108dffU1@individual.net, "michael
adams"
> <mjadams28@onetel.com> wrote:
>
gardening,[color=darkred]
>
> But 'correct' depends on where and when people learned Latin.
....
Indeed. Hence the qutation marks.
I very much doubt whether Geoffrey Smith or Fed Downham to name
but two ever learned too much Latin to start with. Well maybe
Geoffrey Smith did, but I'm sure he always used the English name and
pronounciation Saxifrage - as in greengage rather than the strict
Latin Saxigraga, i.e as in rajah. I'm sure I remember this coming
up one time on GQT - or maybe it was the other way round.
....
> Think of
> 'lichen' - to some it's pronounced 'liken' and to others 'litchen'. Some
> say "Nyefofeea" and others 'Nipoffeea" for Kniphofia. I say CLEMatis, my
> husband says CleMAYtis etc. etc.
....
Apparently some people pronouce golf as "goff."
Francis Wheen for one.
michael adams
....
> --
>
> Sacha
> (remove the weeds for email)
>
| |
| Sacha 2005-07-29, 11:21 am |
| On 29/7/05 14:37, in article 3kupp6F102nnhU1@individual.net, "JennyC"
<JennyC.squirrel@chello.nl> wrote:
>
> "Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote
>
>
>
> And I say Knip-Fol-ia :~)
> Jenny
>
>
Where does the 'l' come from!?
--
Sacha
(remove the weeds for email)
| |
| Pam Moore 2005-07-29, 11:21 am |
| On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:57:14 +0100, "michael adams"
<mjadams28@onetel.com> wrote:
>"Paul Giverin" <paul@giverin.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:6SFGDiBfed6CFw0C@10.0.0.3...
>
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>This is maybe one of the main benefits of listening to "Gardeners'
>Question Time" on a regular basis, as the "correct" pronunciations,
>or at least in the past maybe, Geoffrey Smith's version of some of them,
>are absorbed almost subconsciously. Which can work the other way
>around as well, when trying to find things like "ceanothus" in
>catalogues, confident it must start with an "S".
Thanks for that link: very useful.
Bob Flowerdew could do with reading that site, and also learning a bit
about what the latin names mean. He has so much knowledge, but NOT
about plant names!
Pam in Bristol
| |
| Sacha 2005-07-29, 11:21 am |
| On 29/7/05 15:01, in article 3kur25FcpkopU1@individual.net, "michael adams"
<mjadams28@onetel.com> wrote:
>
> "Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:BF0FEC4B.1C512%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk...
> adams"
> gardening,
>
> ...
>
> Indeed. Hence the qutation marks.
>
> I very much doubt whether Geoffrey Smith or Fed Downham to name
> but two ever learned too much Latin to start with. Well maybe
> Geoffrey Smith did, but I'm sure he always used the English name and
> pronounciation Saxifrage - as in greengage rather than the strict
> Latin Saxigraga, i.e as in rajah. I'm sure I remember this coming
> up one time on GQT - or maybe it was the other way round.
I suspect most of us pronounce things as we first heard them. So if your
first experience is of 'Nepeeeeeta' instead of 'NePETa', or even 'NEpeta' it
will remain so for evermore - to you.
> ...
>
>
> ...
>
> Apparently some people pronouce golf as "goff."
I pronounce that as 'pretentious' - and all those 'goffers' who wish to do
so may howl at me for my prejudices!
<snip>
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)
| |
| Pam Moore 2005-07-29, 11:21 am |
| On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:23:07 +0100, Sacha
<sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>But 'correct' depends on where and when people learned Latin. Think of
>'lichen' - to some it's pronounced 'liken' and to others 'litchen'. Some
>say "Nyefofeea" and others 'Nipoffeea" for Kniphofia. I say CLEMatis, my
>husband says CleMAYtis etc. etc.
See... http://www.flowers.org.uk/flowers/f...r/kniphofia.htm
GQT again; John Cushnie always says clem-AR-tis. He also once said
"nip-fofia".
Monty is one of the few on TV who usually gets it right. Joe Swift
could do with a lesson or two, too!
Pam in Bristol
| |
| Bob Hobden 2005-07-29, 1:21 pm |
|
"Paul Giverin" wrote
>I was just about to post here asking if anyone knew of an online guide to
>phonetic pronunciation of plant names. After many years of gardening, I
>still manage to embarrass myself in front of friends and colleagues with
>some of my pronunciation
>
> Anyway, before posting I did another "google" and came up with this:-
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cexua
>
> ... which I hope someone else might find useful.
>
Thanks Paul, I bought a book many years ago to help with the pronunciation
of plant names after I came across an orchid called " Coelogyne cristata"
and realised I hadn't a hope of making a reasonable stab at it. ( correctly
koy-LO-gin-ee but commonly see-LO-gie-nee KRIS-tah-ta)
Problem then is, do you pronounce it the correct Latin way, with "C" being
hard, or use the commonly accepted way with a soft "C"? :-)
Still, if everyone understands what you are on about there isn't a problem.
--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
| |
| Nick Maclaren 2005-07-29, 1:21 pm |
|
In article <3kv01qF10580eU1@individual.net>,
"Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> writes:
|>
|> Thanks Paul, I bought a book many years ago to help with the pronunciation
|> of plant names after I came across an orchid called " Coelogyne cristata"
|> and realised I hadn't a hope of making a reasonable stab at it. ( correctly
|> koy-LO-gin-ee but commonly see-LO-gie-nee KRIS-tah-ta)
|>
|> Problem then is, do you pronounce it the correct Latin way, with "C" being
|> hard, or use the commonly accepted way with a soft "C"? :-)
|>
|> Still, if everyone understands what you are on about there isn't a problem.
Try Passiflora xiikzodz. I kid you not.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
| |
| Broadback 2005-07-29, 3:21 pm |
| michael adams wrote:
> Apparently some people pronouce golf as "goff."
That took me straight back to school in 1956. In the art class we had
to design a pub sign, I did a stylised golfer and the name "The Golfer's
Arms", the art master altered it to "The Goffer's Arms", told me the l
was dropper. Just look up the Oxford dictionary, that spells it
"Golfer", and pronounces the l, ah well and I thought my teachers were
all perfect! Never mind I enjoyed the trip!
--
All replies to this email address are deleted on receipt.
Common sense, not common market.
| |
| michael adams 2005-07-29, 3:21 pm |
|
"Broadback" <wen@towill.plus.com> wrote in message
news:3kv88dFvn5aoU1@individual.net...
> michael adams wrote:
>
>
>
> That took me straight back to school in 1956. In the art class we had
> to design a pub sign, I did a stylised golfer and the name "The Golfer's
> Arms", the art master altered it to "The Goffer's Arms", told me the l
> was droppe[d]. Just look up the Oxford dictionary, that spells it
> "Golfer", and pronounces the l, ah well and I thought my teachers were
> all perfect! Never mind I enjoyed the trip!
>
>
According to Chambers 20th Century "goff" is an archaic variant
of "golf". Although it doesn't include "goffer". I just found this
out all of 2 minuts ago. This art master didn't wear plus-fours
as well by any chance did he?
michael adams
> --
> All replies to this email address are deleted on receipt.
>
> Common sense, not common market.
| |
| Janet Baraclough 2005-07-29, 4:21 pm |
| The message <BF0FF450.1C541%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk>
from Sacha <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> On 29/7/05 14:37, in article 3kupp6F102nnhU1@individual.net, "JennyC"
> <JennyC.squirrel@chello.nl> wrote:
[color=darkred]
Is that the latin for "stealing a cutting" ?
Janet
| |
| Bob Hobden 2005-07-29, 7:21 pm |
|
"Nick Maclaren" wrote after
> "Bob Hobden" Wrote:
> |>
> |> Thanks Paul, I bought a book many years ago to help with the
> pronunciation
> |> of plant names after I came across an orchid called " Coelogyne
> cristata"
> |> and realised I hadn't a hope of making a reasonable stab at it. (
> correctly
> |> koy-LO-gin-ee but commonly see-LO-gie-nee KRIS-tah-ta)
> |>
> |> Problem then is, do you pronounce it the correct Latin way, with "C"
> being
> |> hard, or use the commonly accepted way with a soft "C"? :-)
> |>
> |> Still, if everyone understands what you are on about there isn't a
> problem.
>
> Try Passiflora xiikzodz. I kid you not.
>
At a guess Pa-si-flo-ra zeek-zods ?
--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
| |
| Charlie Pridham 2005-07-30, 5:21 am |
|
"Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:3kv01qF10580eU1@individual.net...
>
> "Paul Giverin" wrote
> Thanks Paul, I bought a book many years ago to help with the pronunciation
> of plant names after I came across an orchid called " Coelogyne cristata"
> and realised I hadn't a hope of making a reasonable stab at it. (
correctly
> koy-LO-gin-ee but commonly see-LO-gie-nee KRIS-tah-ta)
>
> Problem then is, do you pronounce it the correct Latin way, with "C" being
> hard, or use the commonly accepted way with a soft "C"? :-)
>
> Still, if everyone understands what you are on about there isn't a
problem.
> --
> Regards
> Bob
> In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
>
Well as I understand it the original setting up of plant names in Latin it
was agreed internationally that the pronunciation of the Latin words would
reflect the way the locals in a particular country would pronounce the same
letter combinations.
With such huge regional variations in this country over simple words I have
no idea how that was supposed to work, I am thinking of the word water,
half the country would rhyme it with cat while I and the other half stick an
R in it and rhyme it with war! Fat chance that we were all going to agree on
Latin plant names :~)
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)
| |
| Pam Moore 2005-07-30, 7:21 am |
| On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 14:01:00 GMT, Pam Moore
<NOSpam.moore@NOSPAMvirgin.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:57:14 +0100, "michael adams"
><mjadams28@onetel.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks for that link: very useful.
>Bob Flowerdew could do with reading that site, and also learning a bit
>about what the latin names mean. He has so much knowledge, but NOT
>about plant names!
>
One of Bob's unusual pronunciations is lonickera!
>Pam in Bristol
Pam in Bristol
| |
|
| In article <42eb3443_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com>, Charlie
Pridham <charlie.pridham@lineone.net> writes
>Well as I understand it the original
Original? ICBN? Linnaeus? pre-Linnaeus?
They've had latin names for a good long while, since Latin was the
international language of scholars.
>setting up of plant names in Latin it
>was agreed internationally that the pronunciation of the Latin words
would
>reflect the way the locals in a particular country would pronounce the
same
>letter combinations.
Hmm ... I wonder what they reckoned people with languages who didn't
have those letter combinations (ore even any letters) were going to do?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"
| |
|
| In article <8ljme11gfctng7fsj61pm09iqcaftb1ldi@4ax.com>, Pam Moore
<NOSpam.moore@NOSPAMvirgin.net> writes
>One of Bob's unusual pronunciations is lonickera!
It has its logic. After all, we don't talk about seratonia or
serastrum.
It seems the rule in English, Spanish etc that c is (generally) k before
a,o,u and s before e,i is a post-latin thing.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"
| |
| pammyT 2005-07-30, 10:21 am |
|
"Sacha" <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BF0FF556.1C545%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk...
> On 29/7/05 15:01, in article 3kur25FcpkopU1@individual.net, "michael
adams"
> <mjadams28@onetel.com> wrote:
>
guide[color=darkred]
them,[color=darkred]
>
> I suspect most of us pronounce things as we first heard them. So if your
> first experience is of 'Nepeeeeeta' instead of 'NePETa', or even 'NEpeta'
it
> will remain so for evermore - to you.
Some[color=darkred]
my[color=darkred]
>
> I pronounce that as 'pretentious' - and all those 'goffers' who wish to do
> so may howl at me for my prejudices!
> <snip>
On the subject of pronunciations. My Essex boy brother in law used to say
he enjoyed being in his 'vulva' on a long trip.
He meant volvo of course.
| |
| JennyC 2005-07-31, 5:21 am |
|
"Janet Baraclough" <janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:313030303930323942EA80BF52@zetnet.co.uk...[color=darkred]
> The message <BF0FF450.1C541%sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk>
> from Sacha <sacha@gardenweedws506.fsnet.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>
>
> Is that the latin for "stealing a cutting" ?
Janet you have made my day :~))
Sacha - no idea why i say it the way i do!
Jenny
| |
| martin 2005-07-31, 8:21 am |
| On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:21:44 +0200, "JennyC"
<JennyC.squirrel@chello.nl> wrote:
>
>Janet you have made my day :~))
>
>Sacha - no idea why i say it the way i do!
Something to do with living in Holland too long? :-)
--
Martin
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