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Author leaf mould
H Ryder

2005-09-19, 6:21 am

How do you make this? So far I've been stuffing leaves into bin liners,
punching lots of little holes in them and leaving them in a corner. Will
this work and should they be put in the shed or can they be safely left out
(I'm not sure if they need to be kept dry). Thank you,
Hayley


Nick Gray

2005-09-19, 8:21 am


"H Ryder" <hayley.ryderNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:kPuXe.9429$st1.5620@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> How do you make this? So far I've been stuffing leaves into bin liners,
> punching lots of little holes in them and leaving them in a corner. Will
> this work and should they be put in the shed or can they be safely left

out
> (I'm not sure if they need to be kept dry). Thank you,
> Hayley
>

Hi Hayley,

Making them wet will actually speed up the decomposition, so leaving them
outside will be fine. I do exactly the same as you, but with the addition of
some water, and after a year have lovely crumbly leaf mould.

Cheers

Nick
http://www.ukgardening.co.uk


J Jackson

2005-09-19, 9:21 am

Nick Gray <nick@ukgardening.co.uk> wrote:

: "H Ryder" <hayley.ryderNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote in message
: news:kPuXe.9429$st1.5620@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
: > How do you make this? So far I've been stuffing leaves into bin liners,
: > punching lots of little holes in them and leaving them in a corner. Will
: > this work and should they be put in the shed or can they be safely left
: out
: > (I'm not sure if they need to be kept dry). Thank you,
: > Hayley
: >
: Hi Hayley,

: Making them wet will actually speed up the decomposition, so leaving them
: outside will be fine. I do exactly the same as you, but with the addition of
: some water, and after a year have lovely crumbly leaf mould.

I have mine in an outdoor heap, held in by a back wall, 2 boards and
some mesh front and top. I mix in some grass cuttings and the usual
recycled beer/cider. However it takes my leaves 2 years to give me leaf
mould. However, I have leaves from sycamore and a plane tree out bulking
other leaves.

Jim

nambucca

2005-09-19, 5:21 pm


"H Ryder" <hayley.ryderNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:kPuXe.9429$st1.5620@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> How do you make this? So far I've been stuffing leaves into bin liners,
> punching lots of little holes in them and leaving them in a corner. Will
> this work and should they be put in the shed or can they be safely left

out
> (I'm not sure if they need to be kept dry). Thank you,
> Hayley
>
> What you are doing is fine

It does take time though and some leaves decompose faster than others
Mind you it would be best to have a proper compost bin and mix leaves with
grass cuttings , shreded paper , veg peelings and shredded prunings


Alan Gabriel

2005-09-19, 7:21 pm


"J Jackson" <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:dgm9fj$9ov$2@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk...
> I have mine in an outdoor heap, held in by a back wall, 2 boards and
> some mesh front and top. I mix in some grass cuttings and the usual
> recycled beer/cider. However it takes my leaves 2 years to give me leaf
> mould. However, I have leaves from sycamore and a plane tree out bulking
> other leaves.
>
>


Don't use too much recycled cider or your leaf mould will smell like cats
pee. ;o)

--
Regards,
Alan

Preserve wildlife - pickle a SQUIRREL to reply.



Jupiter

2005-09-20, 4:21 am

On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:04:16 +0000 (UTC), "nambucca"
<nambucca@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>"H Ryder" <hayley.ryderNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:kPuXe.9429$st1.5620@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>out
>It does take time though and some leaves decompose faster than others
>Mind you it would be best to have a proper compost bin and mix leaves with
>grass cuttings , shreded paper , veg peelings and shredded prunings
>

I've seen it suggested that leaves are better composted separately in
an open type container, wire frame or similar. The reason given was
that leaves are decomposed by fungal activity which needs air and
moisture, whereas 'normal' compost decomposition is bacterial which
proceeds well in a closed container. We get so many fallen leaves that
the other compost materials are overwhelmed by the sheer quantity and
the process takes an awfully long time. I'm going to try the separate
open bin process this autumn. and just leave them as long as it takes.
After all, the traditional method of making leafmould was just to
leave them in a big pile in the open.
H Ryder

2005-09-20, 6:21 am

> Mind you it would be best to have a proper compost bin and mix leaves with
> grass cuttings , shreded paper , veg peelings and shredded prunings



we have three, they are all buried under a huge pile of "garden stuff" - the
house had been on the market for ages when we bought it and I think that the
previous occupiers had stopped doing anything to the garden when they first
decided to sell

--
Hayley
(gardening on well drained, alkaline clay in Somerset)


nambucca

2005-09-20, 1:21 pm


"H Ryder" <hayley.ryderNOSPAM@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:LRPXe.9816$st1.7402@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
with[color=darkred]
>
>
> we have three, they are all buried under a huge pile of "garden stuff" -

the
>
> --
> Hayley
> (gardening on well drained, alkaline clay in Somerset)


Well in which case you should have lots of lovely compost to assist your
well drained alkaline soil become neutral and able to retain moisture
> Spead it thickly on the beds etc from January onwards
>



Kay

2005-09-20, 1:21 pm

In article <6hbvi11ifkne73hgeln1tmdha96njkv7vb@4ax.com>, Jupiter
<Jupiter@shotmail.com> writes
>On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:04:16 +0000 (UTC), "nambucca"
><nambucca@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>I've seen it suggested that leaves are better composted separately in
>an open type container, wire frame or similar. The reason given was
>that leaves are decomposed by fungal activity which needs air and
>moisture, whereas 'normal' compost decomposition is bacterial which
>proceeds well in a closed container.


I can't see that it is as clear cut as that. There isn't *that* much
difference between a willowherb leaf and a privet leaf.

I presume it is to do with the proportion of relatively harder and
softer stuff in the heap. Even tree leaves will decompose in a 'normal'
heap, but they are slower than other things, so it's better, with autumn
quantities, to compost separately. And you need more of the softer stuff
to generate the heat for the hot process, so your leaf heap then has to
resort to the fungal process.

'Normal' compost decomposition for those of us who put anything and
everything on the heap also tends to be fungal. But the end result is
just as good.

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Flower Bobdew

2005-09-20, 3:21 pm


Apologies if this sounds blindly naive but...

Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
eventually make that a mute point?

--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
p.k.

2005-09-20, 4:21 pm

Kay wrote:
>
> I presume it is to do with the proportion of relatively harder and
> softer stuff in the heap. Even tree leaves will decompose in a
> 'normal' heap, but they are slower than other things, so it's better,
> with autumn quantities, to compost separately. And you need more of
> the softer stuff to generate the heat for the hot process, so your
> leaf heap then has to resort to the fungal process.



And that leaves - larger ones in particular clump together in impermeable
layers that are starved of oxygen and impede water flow. Spreading leaves
over the lawn and running the mower over them a couple of times before
mixing in with general stuff and lots of grass clippings in particular works
very well.

pk


J Jackson

2005-09-21, 11:21 am

Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

: Apologies if this sounds blindly naive but...

: Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
: disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
: eventually make that a mute point?

ALL our sycamore leaves are covered in black spots and they all go in the
leaf mould pile.

I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
piles, but I just pile everything in.

Jim

J Jackson

2005-09-21, 11:21 am

Alan Gabriel <alan@ac-gabriel.squirrelfreeserve.co.uk> wrote:

: "J Jackson" <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> wrote in message
: news:dgm9fj$9ov$2@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk...
: > I have mine in an outdoor heap, held in by a back wall, 2 boards and
: > some mesh front and top. I mix in some grass cuttings and the usual
: > recycled beer/cider. However it takes my leaves 2 years to give me leaf
: > mould. However, I have leaves from sycamore and a plane tree out bulking
: > other leaves.
: >
: >

: Don't use too much recycled cider or your leaf mould will smell like cats
: pee. ;o)

dilute said recycled cider/beer with 5 parts water and use to make sure
your heap is damp, and no more. It breaks down, like the leaves etc.

Jim

Janet Baraclough

2005-09-21, 6:21 pm

The message <dgrof8$mdi$3@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk>
from J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> contains these words:

> Alan Gabriel <alan@ac-gabriel.squirrelfreeserve.co.uk> wrote:


> : "J Jackson" <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> wrote in message
> : news:dgm9fj$9ov$2@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk...
> : > I have mine in an outdoor heap, held in by a back wall, 2 boards and
> : > some mesh front and top. I mix in some grass cuttings and the usual
> : > recycled beer/cider. However it takes my leaves 2 years to give me leaf
> : > mould. However, I have leaves from sycamore and a plane tree out bulking
> : > other leaves.
> : >
> : >


> : Don't use too much recycled cider or your leaf mould will smell like cats
> : pee. ;o)


Nonsense. If that was true my compost heaps would stink like Saturday
night in a pub urinal.

> dilute said recycled cider/beer with 5 parts water and use to make sure
> your heap is damp, and no more. It breaks down, like the leaves etc.


Leafmould takes at least a year to break down. Any pee, in any
concentration, will have broken down and lost all the original smell,
long before the leafmould is ready.

Janet
Alan Gabriel

2005-09-21, 9:21 pm


"Janet Baraclough" <janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:31303030393032394331CF1881@zetnet.co.uk...

>
> Nonsense. If that was true my compost heaps would stink like Saturday
> night in a pub urinal.
>


You obviously haven't been to a cider pub on the Mendips.

--
Regards,
Alan

Preserve wildlife - pickle a SQUIRREL to reply.



Janet Baraclough

2005-09-22, 7:21 am

The message <dgsq54$nb4$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>
from "Alan Gabriel" <alan@ac-gabriel.SQUIRRELfreeserve.co.uk> contains
these words:


> "Janet Baraclough" <janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:31303030393032394331CF1881@zetnet.co.uk...


[color=darkred]
> You obviously haven't been to a cider pub on the Mendips.


Shudder. I went to proper cider pubs, in Herefordshire :-)

Janet
Flower Bobdew

2005-09-22, 7:21 am

J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> writes

>Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>: Apologies if this sounds blindly naive but...
>
>: Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
>: disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
>: eventually make that a mute point?
>
>ALL our sycamore leaves are covered in black spots and they all go in the
>leaf mould pile.
>
>I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
>piles, but I just pile everything in.


And you've been doing this for a number of years without any apparent
problems, Jim?

--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
J Jackson

2005-09-22, 12:21 pm

Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> writes

: >Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: >
: >: Apologies if this sounds blindly naive but...
: >
: >: Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
: >: disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
: >: eventually make that a mute point?
: >
: >ALL our sycamore leaves are covered in black spots and they all go in the
: >leaf mould pile.
: >
: >I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
: >piles, but I just pile everything in.

: And you've been doing this for a number of years without any apparent
: problems, Jim?

let's see, since 1988.

Jim

Flower Bobdew

2005-09-24, 5:21 pm

J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> writes

>Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>: J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> writes
>
>: >Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>: >
>: >: Apologies if this sounds blindly naive but...
>: >
>: >: Presumably not a good idea to use any leaves which show signs of
>: >: disease, notably black spot? Or does the whole process of 'rotting down'
>: >: eventually make that a mute point?
>: >
>: >ALL our sycamore leaves are covered in black spots and they all go in the
>: >leaf mould pile.
>: >
>: >I'm sure there are some diseases that should be kept out of leaf mould
>: >piles, but I just pile everything in.
>
>: And you've been doing this for a number of years without any apparent
>: problems, Jim?
>
>let's see, since 1988.


{Laughs}

Ummm, you will let me know when you've had a bit more experience? ;)

--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
Nick Maclaren

2005-09-25, 7:21 am

In article <Qd$E8FCI9aNDFwcB@ollis.demon.co.uk>,
Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> {Laughs}
>
>Ummm, you will let me know when you've had a bit more experience? ;)


Well, I have been doing that since the 1970s, and systematically
since the 1970s; and I know people who have been doing that since
time immemorial.

The point is that most such diseases either persist only in living
tissue (and so are destroyed by composting), or are extremely common
and can be windspread (and so can be regarded as ubiquitous). It is
VERY rare for something with resistant spores to be controllable by
destroying infected material on a garden scale.

In general, the solution is to try to reduce the reinfection rate
by ensuring that the conditions are appropriate. Hence the use of
Bordeaux mixture, milk, etc. for such things.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Flower Bobdew

2005-09-25, 10:21 am

In article <dh5t6b$3ua$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Nick Maclaren
<nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes
>
>The point is that most such diseases either persist only in living
>tissue (and so are destroyed by composting), or are extremely common
>and can be windspread (and so can be regarded as ubiquitous). It is
>VERY rare for something with resistant spores to be controllable by
>destroying infected material on a garden scale.
>
>In general, the solution is to try to reduce the reinfection rate
>by ensuring that the conditions are appropriate. Hence the use of
>Bordeaux mixture, milk, etc. for such things.


Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
leaving them lying around would.

--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
Jaques d'Alltrades

2005-09-25, 12:21 pm

The message <Aa0wNXRnZpNDFwu2@ollis.demon.co.uk>
from Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> contains these words:

[color=darkred]
> Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
> comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
> leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
> composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
> leaving them lying around would.


High temperatures for a start.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
J Jackson

2005-09-26, 1:21 pm

Jaques d'Alltrades <creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
: The message <Aa0wNXRnZpNDFwu2@ollis.demon.co.uk>
: from Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> contains these words:

: > >In general, the solution is to try to reduce the reinfection rate
: > >by ensuring that the conditions are appropriate. Hence the use of
: > >Bordeaux mixture, milk, etc. for such things.

: > Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
: > comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
: > leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
: > composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
: > leaving them lying around would.

: High temperatures for a start.

While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
:-)
Nick Maclaren

2005-09-26, 1:21 pm


In article <Aa0wNXRnZpNDFwu2@ollis.demon.co.uk>,
Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
|>
|> Interesting. I suppose, in my new-to-gardening infancy, I've heard
|> comments about collecting up/destroying things like black spot on fallen
|> leaves so they don't recur the following season, when it would appear
|> composting clearly takes it through a different process than simply
|> leaving them lying around would.

Yes - moving it elsewhere, for a start :-)

That ritual is of very limited use, though it is one of the few
that has any justification in science. Black spot is sufficiently
widespread that the best you can hope for is to alleviate it.
I did a comparison with one pair of roses, both removing and not
removing fallen leaves, and it made not a damn of difference.
Some people have observed some effect.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Jaques d'Alltrades

2005-09-26, 5:21 pm

The message <dh93j2$47k$1@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk>
from J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> contains these words:

> While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
> untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
> :-)


You're not doing it right.

Water it, with recycled beer, etc.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
Martin Brown

2005-09-27, 8:21 am

J Jackson wrote:

> Jaques d'Alltrades <creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> : The message <dh93j2$47k$1@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk>
> : from J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> contains these words:
>
> : > While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
> : > untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
> : > :-)
>
> : You're not doing it right.
>
> : Water it, with recycled beer, etc.
>
> Go on then - anybody else care to say whether they get "hot" piles of
> leaves, even when watered with the recycled beer/cider (which I do along
> with the last of the grass cuttings). I'm not convinced that a pile
> consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
> proved wrong.


I have known fresh pine needles and stripped bark in bulk go hot on
their own even in mid-winter.

Many autumn deciduous leaves like beech and oak for example contain
powerful anti-fungal agents like tannins that significantly slow the
process. I have never known my leaf mould heap (mostly beech some oak)
get warm. Even with ideal conditions it takes about two years for them
to rot down to a good leaf mould. The result is worth having though.

Regards,
Martin Brown
Jaques d'Alltrades

2005-09-27, 9:21 am

The message <dhb2ed$jdp$1@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk>
from J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> contains these words:

> Go on then - anybody else care to say whether they get "hot" piles of
> leaves, even when watered with the recycled beer/cider (which I do along
> with the last of the grass cuttings). I'm not convinced that a pile
> consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
> proved wrong.


Enclose them as you would a compost heap and keep them moist - they'll
generate heat.

I had a lot of dustbin bags of (mainly) poplar leaves last year, swept
up by me and my neighbours, and they created *LOTS* of heat when
constrained.

(In one of those big woven bags that sand and fertiliser gets delivered
in nowadays.)

I must confess that most of the help was recycled tea, not beer, but
evert trickle helps.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
Janet Baraclough

2005-09-27, 12:21 pm

The message <31303030323030384338596070@foobar.zetnet.co.uk>
from Jaques d'Alltrades <creaking.gate@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> contains
these words:

> The message <dh93j2$47k$1@iss-nntp.leeds.ac.uk>
> from J Jackson <jj@comp.leeds.ac.uk> contains these words:


[color=darkred]
> You're not doing it right.


> Water it, with recycled beer, etc.


Leafmould piles are generally made with dead brown leaves. They don't
heat up when composted, unless you mix green plant material with them .

Janet.
Olivier59

2005-09-27, 2:21 pm

J Jackson wrote:

> (...) I'm not convinced that a pile
> consisting of 95% leaves can create a "hot" pile, but am willing to be
> proved wrong.


Hi,

It depends on the size of the pile. I collect tons of leaves (about 100
cubic metres last year - sorry to me metric, I don't know how to convert
this number into cubic feet or yards) every autumn and make *big* piles
of them. Well, I can assure you the piles literally steam and sticking
my hand into one of them would burn it ;-)

Here's a picture I took last year:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mon.jardin....illes_fumee.jpg

When I say "big" piles, I mean something like 6' (1.80m) high and wide,
and they're made of 100% leaves, nothing else. Leaf mould is ready to
use as a mulch about 6 months later and almost entirely composted less
than a year later. I'm using mainly shredded leaves, so this perhaps
speeds up the process a bit.

If the pile is much smaller, say something like 2 to 3' high, I also do
not think it's likely to get very hot.

Olivier (please excuse my approximate English, I'm French).
Jaques d'Alltrades

2005-09-27, 2:21 pm

The message <433974fb$0$999$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
from Olivier59 <Olivier59@nosp.fr.invalid> contains these words:

> Olivier (please excuse my approximate English, I'm French).


Your English is excellent.

--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/
Janet Baraclough

2005-09-27, 3:21 pm

The message <433974fb$0$999$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
from Olivier59 <Olivier59@nosp.fr.invalid> contains these words:

> J Jackson wrote:


[color=darkred]
> Hi,


> It depends on the size of the pile. I collect tons of leaves (about 100
> cubic metres last year - sorry to me metric, I don't know how to convert
> this number into cubic feet or yards) every autumn and make *big* piles
> of them. Well, I can assure you the piles literally steam and sticking
> my hand into one of them would burn it ;-)


> Here's a picture I took last year:
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mon.jardin....illes_fumee.jpg


WOW. Now that is a compost heap. Note, chaps..size does matter :~}

> Olivier (please excuse my approximate English, I'm French).


No problem, your English is excellent, very clear. Where do you
collect such a mountain of leaves from?

Janet.


Olivier59

2005-09-28, 2:21 pm

Janet Baraclough wrote:

> The message <433974fb$0$999$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>
> from Olivier59 <Olivier59@nosp.fr.invalid> contains these words:
>
>
>
>
> (...) Where do you
> collect such a mountain of leaves from?


Hi,

Neighbours' gardens (before they burn or dump them), other large gardens
around, private parcs... I'm trying to make a woodland garden, so leaves
are, well, gold :-)

Olivier (thanks for your kind words).
J Jackson

2005-09-29, 8:21 am

Janet Baraclough <janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

: > > While the general compost heap gets upto temps that can can be
: > > untouchable, I've never noticed high temperatures in my leaf mould piles
: > > :-)

: > You're not doing it right.
: > Water it, with recycled beer, etc.

: Leafmould piles are generally made with dead brown leaves. They don't
: heat up when composted, unless you mix green plant material with them .

I must say that's what I'd read, and experienced so far.
Though some expereinces appear different - Olivier and huge volume of
leaves e.g. "Jaques" has indicated if he also composts similarly large
volumes of leaves or more usual domestic quantities.


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