UK gardening - onions in a pickle

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onions in a pickle

Broadback

2005-09-21, 11:21 am

A question of salt. If I treat my pickling onions with salt is any of
this salt present in the pickle? It is important in this house that we
espouse salt as much as possible. A supplementary question, if they are
not salted what is the disadvantage?
Thanks

Nick Maclaren

2005-09-21, 12:21 pm

In article <3pd63tF9sbuiU1@individual.net>,
Broadback <wen@towill.plus.com> writes:
|>
|> A question of salt. If I treat my pickling onions with salt is any of
|> this salt present in the pickle? It is important in this house that we
|> espouse salt as much as possible. A supplementary question, if they are
|> not salted what is the disadvantage?

Yes, lots. And they will not keep. Salt is used to remove water,
to create acidity (don't ask me how), and to be in itself hostile
to bacteria, fungi etc.

If you have problems with salt, you could try part-drying the
onions (you may need to cut them in half) and then pickling
in STRONG vinegar (do not boil it, as that reduces its strength).
They would then keep.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie

2005-09-21, 1:21 pm

The message <dgrqec$prf$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>
from nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
> In article <3pd63tF9sbuiU1@individual.net>,
> Broadback <wen@towill.plus.com> writes:
> |>
> |> A question of salt. If I treat my pickling onions with salt is any of
> |> this salt present in the pickle? It is important in this house that we
> |> espouse salt as much as possible.

ITYM eschew?

> A supplementary question, if they are
> |> not salted what is the disadvantage?

> Yes, lots. And they will not keep. Salt is used to remove water,

And much of it remains behind. Not a lot attaches to the onions.

> to create acidity (don't ask me how), and to be in itself hostile
> to bacteria, fungi etc.

The chloride ions and the hydrogen ions in the pickle from
(respectively) the salt and the acetic acid act as if they were
hydrochloric acid.

If you want to clean (say) a furred-up vase or decanter, leave a weak
solution of salt and vinegar in it for a week or two.

> If you have problems with salt, you could try part-drying the
> onions (you may need to cut them in half) and then pickling
> in STRONG vinegar (do not boil it, as that reduces its strength).
> They would then keep.

Onions dessicate well in the airing cupboard, but it's as well to remove
the usual clothing, etc..

--

,,,
}»«<üüüü(@>
´ ´

Bob Hobden

2005-09-21, 2:21 pm

"Broadback" wrote
>A question of salt. If I treat my pickling onions with salt is any of this
>salt present in the pickle? It is important in this house that we espouse
>salt as much as possible. A supplementary question, if they are not salted
>what is the disadvantage?

This is an old argument on this Ng.
We never use salt, our shallots are always crisp and we have had them so
after well over 1 year of storage. I have never seen any advantage to using
salt in home pickling because we grow our own and use the best ingredients
unlike the commercial companies. The only down side is they take a bit
longer to get fully pickled but we are never in a hurry anyway, again unlike
the commercial companies.
Wash and sterilise your jars, let them cool, peel your shallots/onions pop
them straight into the jar with some pickling spice and top up with good
vinegar (Sarsons).

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Nick Maclaren

2005-09-21, 2:21 pm

In article <3130303032303038433191A799@foobar.zetnet.co.uk>,
Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie <grumach@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>And much of it remains behind. Not a lot attaches to the onions.

I agree that onions absorb vastly less salt than most pickles do,
but they are still pretty salty. I don't like large (i.e. normal
for Blighty) quantities of salt, and have to drink massive amounts
of water to cope with it, so I notice.

>
>The chloride ions and the hydrogen ions in the pickle from
>(respectively) the salt and the acetic acid act as if they were
>hydrochloric acid.

Grrk. Firstly, it also works even if there is no other acid present.
Secondly, sodium binds far more strongly to chloride than hydrogen
does. There is something rather more subtle that goes on.

Yes, I did O-level chemistry, too - and my answer comes from that.
The answer is university-level.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Bernard Peek

2005-09-21, 3:21 pm

In message <dgs4hs$hr0$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Nick Maclaren
<nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes
>In article <3130303032303038433191A799@foobar.zetnet.co.uk>,
>Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie <grumach@foobar.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I agree that onions absorb vastly less salt than most pickles do,
>but they are still pretty salty. I don't like large (i.e. normal
>for Blighty) quantities of salt, and have to drink massive amounts
>of water to cope with it, so I notice.
>
>
>Grrk. Firstly, it also works even if there is no other acid present.
>Secondly, sodium binds far more strongly to chloride than hydrogen
>does. There is something rather more subtle that goes on.

Stomach juices contain quite a lot of hydrochloric acid anyway, it's far
stronger than anything anyone is likely to swallow voluntarily.

After salting the onions you should wash the onions briefly in fresh
water, then drain them well. That gets rid of virtually all of the salt.
The pickling vinegar will remove the rest of it.

--
Bernard Peek
London, UK. DBA, Manager, Trainer & Author.

J Jackson

2005-09-22, 12:21 pm

Bob Hobden <me@privacy.net> wrote:

: Wash and sterilise your jars, let them cool, peel your shallots/onions pop
: them straight into the jar with some pickling spice and top up with good
: vinegar (Sarsons).

I'd question the product placement. If you mean sarsons pickling vinegar,
then ok. Many other vinegars work too. You need a good strong vinegar.
Many cheap vinegars sold for fish 'n chips etc are not strong enough.
I use an organic cider vinegar - when the pickles are finished I use up
the vinegar in making chutneys.

Bob Hobden

2005-09-22, 1:21 pm

"J Jackson" wrote Bob Hobden wrote:
>
> : Wash and sterilise your jars, let them cool, peel your shallots/onions
> pop
> : them straight into the jar with some pickling spice and top up with good
> : vinegar (Sarsons).
>
> I'd question the product placement. If you mean sarsons pickling vinegar,
> then ok. Many other vinegars work too. You need a good strong vinegar.
> Many cheap vinegars sold for fish 'n chips etc are not strong enough.
> I use an organic cider vinegar - when the pickles are finished I use up
> the vinegar in making chutneys.
>

No, ordinary Sarsons malt vinegar is what we use straight from the plastic
container.
Please don't tell me it doesn't work 'cause it does.
It's what/how we always pickle our shallots.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

J Jackson

2005-09-22, 2:21 pm

Bob Hobden <me@privacy.net> wrote:

: "J Jackson" wrote Bob Hobden wrote:
: >
: > : Wash and sterilise your jars, let them cool, peel your shallots/onions
: > pop
: > : them straight into the jar with some pickling spice and top up with good
: > : vinegar (Sarsons).
: >
: > I'd question the product placement. If you mean sarsons pickling vinegar,
: > then ok. Many other vinegars work too. You need a good strong vinegar.
: > Many cheap vinegars sold for fish 'n chips etc are not strong enough.
: > I use an organic cider vinegar - when the pickles are finished I use up
: > the vinegar in making chutneys.
: >

: No, ordinary Sarsons malt vinegar is what we use straight from the plastic
: container.
: Please don't tell me it doesn't work 'cause it does.

I wouldn't do that, though there are cheap vinegars out there that I doubt
would work well, and choosing a reputable brand is often sensible...

: It's what/how we always pickle our shallots.

.....I just knew they did a "pickling" vinegar.

Bob Hobden

2005-09-22, 2:21 pm

"J Jackson" wrote after
> Bob Hobden wrote:
>
> : No, ordinary Sarsons malt vinegar is what we use straight from the
> plastic
> : container.
> : Please don't tell me it doesn't work 'cause it does.
>
> I wouldn't do that, though there are cheap vinegars out there that I doubt
> would work well, and choosing a reputable brand is often sensible...
>
> : It's what/how we always pickle our shallots.
>
> ....I just knew they did a "pickling" vinegar.

Yes they do and a friend uses it. It looks like a spirit vinegar, it's
clear, and is pre-spiced ???
We prefer the "old fashioned" flavour of malt vinegar and proper whole
spices (with an added red chilli for us but not for jars done for friends)

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie

2005-09-22, 5:21 pm

The message <3pg68kFabvj9U1@individual.net>
from "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> contains these words:
> "J Jackson" wrote after
[color=darkred]
> Yes they do and a friend uses it. It looks like a spirit vinegar, it's
> clear, and is pre-spiced ???

You can get both brewed and 'spirit' pickling vinegar. You used to be
able to get it either pre-spiced or unpolluted - er, sorry -
unflavoured, too, but I haven't bought any for a couple of years or
three.

> We prefer the "old fashioned" flavour of malt vinegar and proper whole
> spices (with an added red chilli for us but not for jars done for friends)

My chillis are taking an age to begin ripening this year. Even the ones
in their own mini-greenhouse (three windows screwed together and a
fourth clipped on the front) are only just showing signs.

I have pickled things in two-star vinegar, but only if it is to be
consumed very soon afterwards - beetroot, for example.

--

,,,
}»«<üüüü(@>
´ ´

Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie

2005-09-22, 5:21 pm

The message <3pg1hfFabejvU1@individual.net>
from "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> contains these words:
> "J Jackson" wrote Bob Hobden wrote:
[color=darkred]
> No, ordinary Sarsons malt vinegar is what we use straight from the plastic
> container.
> Please don't tell me it doesn't work 'cause it does.
> It's what/how we always pickle our shallots.

You've ben lucky, then. Ordinary malt vinegar is not recommended for
pickling as it isn't strong enough, and since you don't partially
dehydrate the onions first, your method is doubly dodgy.

--

,,,
}»«<üüüü(@>
´ ´

Bob Hobden

2005-09-22, 7:21 pm

"Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie" wrote
>
>
> You've ben lucky, then. Ordinary malt vinegar is not recommended for
> pickling as it isn't strong enough, and since you don't partially
> dehydrate the onions first, your method is doubly dodgy.
>
Lucky would imply a % success rate, 100% success, as we get, seems more than
luck.
Only one jar full has ever gone soft in all the years (so we threw them
away) and that after at least 12 months keeping, some years we have pickled
up to 19 one litre jars. We have even kept them two years without noticeable
deterioration.
Dodgy in what way?

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie

2005-09-23, 6:21 am

The message <3pgnnuFaes3fU1@individual.net>
from "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> contains these words:

> Lucky would imply a % success rate, 100% success, as we get, seems
> more than
> luck.
> Only one jar full has ever gone soft in all the years (so we threw them
> away)

How does that square with 100%?

> and that after at least 12 months keeping, some years we have pickled
> up to 19 one litre jars. We have even kept them two years without
> noticeable
> deterioration.

> Dodgy in what way?

I'd say you were lucky.

Some piccalilly I made with table-strength vinegar went horrid and
mushy, and stank to High Heaven. This was with the vegetable
constituents partially dehydrated using salt.

And I do mean piccalilly - clear mixed pickle, not mustard pickle...

--

,,,
}»«<üüüü(@>
´ ´

Mike Lyle

2005-09-23, 4:21 pm

Grumach Macabre of Auchterloonie wrote:[color=darkred]
> The message <3pg68kFabvj9U1@individual.net>
> from "Bob Hobden" <me@privacy.net> contains these words:
the[color=darkred]

Works for me, too. But I do brine first: surely osmosis ensures that
there'll be no salt left on the onions after a good rinse?

Commercially, and in an American cookery book I once saw, calcium
chloride is used as a crisping agent for pickles: it's numbered 509
internationally, but I don't think it has the coveted E prefix. How
they use it, I don't remember.
[color=darkred]
that[color=darkred]

Yes, but note that the cheapest "vinegar" you may be offered by the
greengrocer is probably the foul "non-brewed condiment": I tried it
once, and it forcibly recalled the worst fish and chips. There is a
higher grade which some find better for cockles than natural vinegar,
but I wouldn't use even that for pickling.
[...]

--
Mike.

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