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Home > Archive > UK gardening > September 2005 > disappointing pyracantha berries
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disappointing pyracantha berries
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| Flower Bobdew 2005-09-24, 5:21 pm |
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Subject header says it all really...
I planted a couple of Saphyr pyracantha shrubs a couple of years ago, up
against my north facing boundary wall. They've both developed well, in
shape/height, and the spring flowers have looked good, too. But the
berries are really quite disappointing. They're fairly small and, so
far, have remained resolutely green - when many neighbourhood plants are
seen to be bulging with colourful berries.
Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
would have any adverse affect on them? IIRC, I fed them with a
sprinkling of Vitax Q4 early in the season, too. The plants look
otherwise healthy.
Any thoughts?
--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
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"Flower Bobdew" <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk...
>
> Subject header says it all really...
>
> I planted a couple of Saphyr pyracantha shrubs a couple of years ago, up
> against my north facing boundary wall. They've both developed well, in
> shape/height, and the spring flowers have looked good, too. But the
> berries are really quite disappointing. They're fairly small and, so far,
> have remained resolutely green - when many neighbourhood plants are seen
> to be bulging with colourful berries.
>
> Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
> clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
> would have any adverse affect on them? IIRC, I fed them with a sprinkling
> of Vitax Q4 early in the season, too. The plants look otherwise healthy.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> Flower Bobdew
> South Facing Garden
> South West: UK
I am in the SW too, and my Pyracantha ( not Saphyr ) has only green berries
on it.
This is normal IME. Wait until November, then the b*****d blackbirds will
try
and strip them off in a day or two, once they're red. The only solution is
netting.
Not all berries turn red at the same time you know.
Andy.
| |
| Janet Galpin 2005-09-24, 10:21 pm |
| The message <zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk>
from Flower Bobdew <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> contains these words:
> Subject header says it all really...
> I planted a couple of Saphyr pyracantha shrubs a couple of years ago, up
> against my north facing boundary wall. They've both developed well, in
> shape/height, and the spring flowers have looked good, too. But the
> berries are really quite disappointing. They're fairly small and, so
> far, have remained resolutely green - when many neighbourhood plants are
> seen to be bulging with colourful berries.
> Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
> clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
> would have any adverse affect on them? IIRC, I fed them with a
> sprinkling of Vitax Q4 early in the season, too. The plants look
> otherwise healthy.
> Any thoughts?
They seem to vary in timing. Mine are still green too. I've always
assumed it's both the variety and the position which affects the timing.
I'm sure yours will make it and hopefully the birds will leave them for
a bit longer to make up for it.
Janet G
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| michael adams 2005-09-25, 5:21 am |
|
"Flower Bobdew" <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk...
>
> Subject header says it all really...
>
> I planted a couple of Saphyr pyracantha shrubs a couple of years ago, up
> against my north facing boundary wall. They've both developed well, in
> shape/height, and the spring flowers have looked good, too. But the
> berries are really quite disappointing. They're fairly small and, so
> far, have remained resolutely green - when many neighbourhood plants are
> seen to be bulging with colourful berries.
>
> Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
> clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
> would have any adverse affect on them?
....
Most edible berried fruits, currants etc., require regular watering,
and\or a moist but not waterlogged soil to produce maximum fruit size,
and presumably this will apply to ornamantals just as well.
This is also assuming yours really are small compared with a normal
pyracntha berry, and not just with other unspecified berries, or the
picture in the catalogue.
michael adams
....
IIRC, I fed them with a
> sprinkling of Vitax Q4 early in the season, too. The plants look
> otherwise healthy.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> Flower Bobdew
> South Facing Garden
> South West: UK
| |
| michael adams 2005-09-25, 6:21 am |
| amended post:
Flower Bobdew" <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk...
>
> Subject header says it all really...
>
> I planted a couple of Saphyr pyracantha shrubs a couple of years ago, up
> against my north facing boundary wall. They've both developed well, in
> shape/height, and the spring flowers have looked good, too. But the
> berries are really quite disappointing. They're fairly small and, so
> far, have remained resolutely green - when many neighbourhood plants are
> seen to be bulging with colourful berries.
>
> Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
> clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
> would have any adverse affect on them?
....
Most edible berried fruits, currants etc., require regular watering,
and\or a moist but not waterlogged soil to produce maximum fruit size,
and presumably this will apply to ornamentals just as well.
Correction: as pyracantha is a member of the rosacae family with thick
leaves and deep roots, the above may not be strictly accurate unless
the soil is drying out completely. The plant can also tolerate
partial shade, and as you're getting plenty of flowers, the absence
of berries can't be down to incorrect pruning, given that it only flowers
on older wood. Causes of poor fruit set in other plants, - which is
what this - include an absence of pollinating insects, or water
or other stresses at the appropriate period in the year.
And while in addition to being decorative and providing food for the
birds over winter, apparently the berries are actually edible.
michael adams
....
IIRC, I fed them with a
> sprinkling of Vitax Q4 early in the season, too. The plants look
> otherwise healthy.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> --
> Flower Bobdew
> South Facing Garden
> South West: UK
| |
| Nick Maclaren 2005-09-25, 8:21 am |
| In article <3pn6u5Fb5eccU1@individual.net>,
michael adams <mjadams28@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>Correction: as pyracantha is a member of the rosacae family with thick
>leaves and deep roots, the above may not be strictly accurate unless
>the soil is drying out completely. The plant can also tolerate
>partial shade, and as you're getting plenty of flowers, the absence
>of berries can't be down to incorrect pruning, given that it only flowers
>on older wood. Causes of poor fruit set in other plants, - which is
>what this - include an absence of pollinating insects, or water
>or other stresses at the appropriate period in the year.
And, given this year, that just CAN'T have happened! Well, in my
garden, there has been almost no period of dry conditions, but it
has been so wet that even some normally resistant plants have had
rain damage and fungal leaf infections. But a few miles away,
different conditions have occurred.
>And while in addition to being decorative and providing food for the
>birds over winter, apparently the berries are actually edible.
Almost all berries of the Rosaceae are. The main exception is the
cherry laurel and perhaps the Portugal laurel (P. laurocerasus and
lusitanicus), which are supported to be high in cyanide.
I believe that all of the berries of the Craetagus/Mespilus/Pyrancatha/
Cotoneaster group are edible, but cannot swear to it.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
| |
| michael adams 2005-09-25, 8:21 am |
|
"Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:dh5tlf$4rg$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> In article <3pn6u5Fb5eccU1@individual.net>,
> michael adams <mjadams28@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>
> And, given this year, that just CAN'T have happened! Well, in my
> garden, there has been almost no period of dry conditions, but it
> has been so wet that even some normally resistant plants have had
> rain damage and fungal leaf infections. But a few miles away,
> different conditions have occurred.
....
Er...I would refer M'lud to the evidence already presented to
the Court, to wit -
"Flower Bobdew" <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk...
"Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
would have any adverse affect on them? "
In any case the OP wasn't explicitly complaining about a shortsge
of berries as such, which I somehow assumed he was for some reason,
hence the reference to pollination. Only that those that did appear
were disappointingly small. And where berries or fruit are disappointingly
small there is always a natural tempatation to assume that this must be
down to an absence of moisture in the soil -> plant -> fruit.
michael adams
....
>
>
> Almost all berries of the Rosaceae are. The main exception is the
> cherry laurel and perhaps the Portugal laurel (P. laurocerasus and
> lusitanicus), which are supported to be high in cyanide.
>
> I believe that all of the berries of the Craetagus/Mespilus/Pyrancatha/
> Cotoneaster group are edible, but cannot swear to it.
>
>
> Regards,
> Nick Maclaren.
| |
| Flower Bobdew 2005-09-25, 9:21 am |
| In article <31303030363539394335FD3623@zetnet.co.uk>, Janet Galpin
<decoy.farm@zetnet.co.uk> writes
>
>They seem to vary in timing. Mine are still green too. I've always
>assumed it's both the variety and the position which affects the timing.
Well, I'll keep a watching brief. I dare say they've got plenty of time
to colour up yet, but I doubt the anorexia is likely to be remedied.
>I'm sure yours will make it and hopefully the birds will leave them for
>a bit longer to make up for it.
The birds don't take the berries - well, to any great extent. Maybe
they're unimpressed with their slimline looks too! 
Oddly enough, my small [only 2 years old] Skimmia still has red berries
from last year which the birds didn't eat!
There's something about [my] berries...
--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
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| Flower Bobdew 2005-09-25, 9:21 am |
| In article <4335ec9a@212.67.96.135>, Andy <andrewpreece@onetel.com>
writes
>I am in the SW too, and my Pyracantha ( not Saphyr ) has only green berries
>on it.
Really? *Every* shrub locally, to me, has berries in full, erm, bloom.
>Not all berries turn red at the same time you know.
No. Especially the yellow and orange ones. ;)
--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
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| Flower Bobdew 2005-09-25, 10:21 am |
| In article <3pn2u4Faoq4bU1@individual.net>, michael adams
<mjadams28@onetel.net.uk> writes
>
>"Flower Bobdew" <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk...
>
>...
>
>Most edible berried fruits, currants etc., require regular watering,
>and\or a moist but not waterlogged soil to produce maximum fruit size,
>and presumably this will apply to ornamantals just as well.
I planted some clematis in mid-summer to grow up and through the shrubs
(now they're well established) and I was amazed how dry the soil was to
a depth of a couple of feet or more.
>This is also assuming yours really are small compared with a normal
>pyracntha berry
I would say about half the size, compared directly to other pyracantha
berries I've seen locally. Although I doubt those would be Saphyr, as
they're all much older shrubs. Maybe their relative age has something to
do with it, too, then?
--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
| |
| Flower Bobdew 2005-09-25, 10:21 am |
| In article <3pnelbFarteuU1@individual.net>, michael adams
<mjadams28@onetel.net.uk> writes
>
>"Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:dh5tlf$4rg$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
>
>
>
>
>
>...
>
>Er...I would refer M'lud to the evidence already presented to
>the Court, to wit -
>
>"Flower Bobdew" <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk...
>
>"Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
> clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
> would have any adverse affect on them? "
Quite! I don't know where Mick resides, but I've forgotten what rain
looks like here. [North Bristol]
>In any case the OP wasn't explicitly complaining about a shortsge
>of berries as such, which I somehow assumed he was for some reason,
>hence the reference to pollination. Only that those that did appear
>were disappointingly small. And where berries or fruit are disappointingly
>small there is always a natural tempatation to assume that this must be
>down to an absence of moisture in the soil -> plant -> fruit.
I know this probably isn't additionally helped by being a north facing
wall, in that the prevailing wind [and, therefore, rain] is from the
south west. Maybe next year, when I get my external tap fitted, I'll
water the area in the lee of that wall more proactively during prolonged
dry periods.
--
Flower Bobdew
South Facing Garden
South West: UK
| |
|
| In article <uNYLIsOWJpNDFwrF@ollis.demon.co.uk>, Flower Bobdew
<garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>The birds don't take the berries - well, to any great extent. Maybe
>they're unimpressed with their slimline looks too!
>
>Oddly enough, my small [only 2 years old] Skimmia still has red berries
>from last year which the birds didn't eat!
>
>There's something about [my] berries...
>
Not necessarily. There's an order of preference for berries, and if the
preferred berries are abundant, then the less preferred will be left
till much later or maybe not touched at all. My garden has in or around
it an abundance of redcurrant, rowan, holly, apples, mulberries.
Cotoneaster and pyracantha therefore aren't eaten till spring, and
skimmia and pernettya not at all. Other people see pyracantha eaten much
sooner, and I've seen cotoneaster recommended as attractive to birds.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"
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| Nick Maclaren 2005-09-25, 2:21 pm |
| In article <3pnelbFarteuU1@individual.net>,
michael adams <mjadams28@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>
>Er...I would refer M'lud to the evidence already presented to
>the Court, to wit -
>
>"Flower Bobdew" <garden@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:zNEMIjHlHbNDFwIj@ollis.demon.co.uk...
>
>"Possible issues?... The ground up against the wall is quite dry - and
> clearly we've just had a very dry summer - so I'm not sure whether that
> would have any adverse affect on them? "
Don't look up irony in the dictionary - it will only increase your
confusion.
I don't know where Mick resides, but I am posting from Cambridge,
and it has been a very WET summer in my garden (though, as I said,
that has not been the case for all of the area). I am aware of what
has been happening elsewhere in the UK :-)
>In any case the OP wasn't explicitly complaining about a shortsge
>of berries as such, which I somehow assumed he was for some reason,
>hence the reference to pollination. Only that those that did appear
>were disappointingly small. And where berries or fruit are disappointingly
>small there is always a natural tempatation to assume that this must be
>down to an absence of moisture in the soil -> plant -> fruit.
Generally correct. Too much rain at the wrong time tends to cause
poor pollination or rot rather than small fruit.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
| |
| michael adams 2005-09-26, 5:21 am |
| "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:dh6kps$jh5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> In article <3pnelbFarteuU1@individual.net>,
> michael adams <mjadams28@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> Don't look up irony in the dictionary - it will only increase your
> confusion.
....
Indeed so. That someone living in East Anglia, traditionally one of the
driest areas in the country should be awash while someone living in the
West Country, traditionally among the wettest should be suffering drought.
Except that the OP, and a goodly proportion of readers probably won't
have been immediately aware of those facts, aynd ...
Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:dh6kps$jh5$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
" But a few miles away, different conditions have occurred."
Otherwise, I would have thought that the vagaries of the British weather
would have exhausted their ironic potential (fate) a good few centuries
ago. Although there is of course a satisfying element of (Socratic) irony,
in anyone's needing to point out their supposed cleverness, to a largely
unheeding hoi polloi.
....
>
> I don't know where Mick resides, but I am posting from Cambridge,
> and it has been a very WET summer in my garden (though, as I said,
> that has not been the case for all of the area). I am aware of what
> has been happening elsewhere in the UK :-)
....
Indeed so, as is often the case I believe.
Your point being ?
....
>
disappointingly[color=darkred]
>
> Generally correct. Too much rain at the wrong time tends to cause
> poor pollination or rot rather than small fruit.
>
>
> Regards,
> Nick Maclaren.
michael adams
....
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