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Buying a bit of my neighbours garden
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| Pedro Popadopolous 2005-09-25, 10:21 am |
| Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
Price per acre?
Thanks
| |
| Alan Holmes 2005-09-25, 10:21 am |
|
"Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
When was a 'bit' as much as an acre?
--
Alan
Reply to alan (dot) holmes27 (at) virgin (dot) net
>
> Thanks
>
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| Harold Walker 2005-09-25, 11:21 am |
|
"Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
>
> Thanks
>Use the middle east approach....."I am but a poor man but"...these words
>not to be taken too literally...most certainly do not appear to be too
>anxious.....first of all it is up to you to decide the max. amount you are
>prepared to pay....."If it is not much I wonder if you would like to sell
>me xxx amoount of land"....there are so many waus of handling it......H who
>spent his life negotiating contracts.
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| michael adams 2005-09-25, 11:21 am |
|
"Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
>
> Thanks
>
>
That would depend on at least three things. Maybe more.
a) Location - town or country - and there being any possibility
of ever getting planning permission. Or again if you enlarge
your own garden to a great extent then there might be a
possibility of demolishing or extending your present property
and greatly enhancing the value of the site overall. But
that would be mainly in towns.
b) Layout - whether there are any other means of access,
to the land. If it backs directly onto your own property
then the value will be correspondingly less than if it
were adjacent to a road or another right of way.
Again even in the country, even with road access, unless
the site is likely to attract planning permission, its
value will be correspondly less than it would be as
part of a large parcel of agricultural land, given that
presumably it can only be used foe its existing purpose
as a garden.
c) How much the vendor knows about the market, and whether
they're easy going, or are likely to drive a hard bargain.
I would imagine there will also be substantial legal costs
involved on both sides in altering the deeds or at least the plans
of the respective properties, assuming that both properties are
freehold to begin with.
If you merely want to increase the size of your garden,
while your neighbour's garden is getting to much for them,
owing to age or infirmity maybe, then it might be a lot easier
to simply lease a part of it on an annual basis. Or until
such time as either property changes hands. If that was the case
then you could possibly provide them with produce or flowers from
the garden, as part of the annual rent. Another factor being
how friendly you are with them already.
michael adams
....
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| Pedro Popadopolous 2005-09-25, 1:21 pm |
|
"Alan Holmes" <alan.holmes@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:UqxZe.15647$_56.12355@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in
> message news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> When was a 'bit' as much as an acre?
>
>
I thought if I knew how much an acre I could work out say an eighth....
If I had asked for the price of an eighth I thought many people might not
know...
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| Harold Walker 2005-09-25, 2:21 pm |
|
"Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh6hnl$qbp$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...[color=darkred]
>
> "Alan Holmes" <alan.holmes@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:UqxZe.15647$_56.12355@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
| |
|
|
"Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh6hnl$qbp$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "Alan Holmes" <alan.holmes@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:UqxZe.15647$_56.12355@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I recently agreed to sell a 'bit' of my land for £2000~~~ he
is coming this week with his wheelbarrow!!
Best Wishes Brian.[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>
>
>
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| Bob Hobden 2005-09-25, 6:21 pm |
|
"Pedro Popadopolous" wrote
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
>
Depends on location, on how much it will add to your property and detract
from his.
Whatever you pay, and it will depend on the location, don't forget there
will be solicitors fees involved + Land registry fees so take the cost of
that into account as the seller will, no doubt, expect you to pay all fees.
--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London
| |
| Janet Baraclough 2005-09-25, 7:21 pm |
| The message <3pnnb8Fbc8ugU1@individual.net>
from "michael adams" <mjadams28@onetel.net.uk> contains these words:
> I would imagine there will also be substantial legal costs
> involved on both sides in altering the deeds or at least the plans
> of the respective properties, assuming that both properties are
> freehold to begin with.
No, I've done it. Those costs are a relatively trivial (land survey,
plus registration of title deeds, just like any other property
transfer). He will also be paying solicitor fees to handle the
conveyance. My lawyer likes keeping my business so was happy to do that
simple conveyance and land-registry very cheaply. We shared the cost of
the land-survey with the vendor.
The OP may also have to apply for planning permision, "change of use",
from, say, arable farmland to domestic garden. The local planning office
can advise. Doing that for yourself, if necessary, is time consuming but
straightforward and not expensive.
To the OP; if you live in a rural area and are buying farm land,
don't imagine you are going to get it at the local rate paid for farm,
grazing or arable land. (That can be as low as a few hundred per acre in
some areas) You are buying a * domestic home asset* which will enhance
the value of your residential property. Your vendor knows that. Expect
to pay at a rate of something-thousands per acre. It's still a bargain.
When we were in your position, I could not persuade the
neighbour-vendor to name his price. In the end we decided what it was
worth to us (and what we could afford) and made ouir best and only
offer; which was exactly what he was waiting to find out. He promptly
accepted.
Janet
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| Charlie Pridham 2005-09-26, 5:21 am |
|
"Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
>
> Thanks
>
>
The going rate appears roughly that for building plots per acre, so be
prepared to pay a lot for a little!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)
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|
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"Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
>
> Thanks
>
>
Before you start any lengthy negotiations with reference to 'price per acre
building land' and 'price for a bit of agriculture land' ask ourself "What
do I want this bit of land for? How much is it worth to me?"
If it is worth £100.00 to you for what you want to do, i.e. extend your
garden then you have a price in mind.
Now go and see your neighbour and ask what they had in mind, if they say 'I
don't really know' then say that you have a figure in mind for that you want
to do with it and offer £100.00. If they come back and say 'I had thought of
more than that' they DO have a figure in mind and ask what it is. If they
come up with £1000.00, is it worth that to ou? If not, end of story.
When I was doing my business studies course, we had an exercise on marketing
and sales which included pricing of goods. The article cost to manufacture,
packaging, advertising etc etc, was, for example £1.00. "What will you sell
it for?" That was the excercise given to the groups. The groups came back
with various at around £1.50. "This article is on the market and selling
well at £3.75" 'How do you get that price?' we asked. "It's what the public
will pay for it"
How much is that bit of land worth "TO YOU"?
Would you pay £5000.00 to extend your garden?
Mike
| |
|
| Mike wrote:
>
> How much is that bit of land worth "TO YOU"?
>
> Would you pay £5000.00 to extend your garden?
>
> Mike
andCharlie Pridham wrote:
> The going rate appears roughly that for building plots per acre, so be
> prepared to pay a lot for a little!
exactly so, best part of 20 yeas ago, i sold the end 10m*10m bit of my
mother's garden to the rear neighbour to "square off" his L-shaped garden
for £3000 (I had power of attourney while she was in a nursing home). I've
just checked a website giving land value trends and, amazingly, that was
bang on the mark for residential building land o/s london.
Value to us, zero. Garden was if anything better proportioned without that
bit & we needed cash to pay fees.
Value to neigbour: Lots as odd difficlut to use L-shaped garden transformed
into nicely proportioned rectangle = easier to use and to sell.
pk
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| Harold Walker 2005-09-26, 6:21 am |
|
"Mike" <not@here.thank.you> wrote in message
news:dh8986$4m$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
> "Pedro Popadopolous" <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in
> message
> news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> When I was doing my business studies course, we had an exercise on
> marketing
> and sales which included pricing of goods. The article cost to
> manufacture,
> packaging, advertising etc etc, was, for example £1.00. "What will you
> sell
> it for?" That was the excercise given to the groups. The groups came back
> with various at around £1.50. "This article is on the market and selling
> well at £3.75" 'How do you get that price?' we asked. "It's what the
> public
> will pay for it"
>
> How much is that bit of land worth "TO YOU"?
>
> Mike
Suspect you also were told that there is no relationship between cost and
price except that the price must be greater than the cost......"What the
market will bare" being the operative words.....H
>
>
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| Janet Baraclough 2005-09-26, 2:21 pm |
| The message <dh8ar9$gu0$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>
from "p.k." <spam.trap100@btinternet.com> contains these words:
> exactly so, best part of 20 yeas ago, i sold the end 10m*10m bit of my
> mother's garden to the rear neighbour to "square off" his L-shaped garden
> for £3000 (I had power of attourney while she was in a nursing home). I've
> just checked a website giving land value trends and, amazingly, that was
> bang on the mark for residential building land o/s london.
Building-plot land is hugely expensive because means a building can be
built on it. Not all land can be built on. Very often, these odd bits
of extra land people buy to extend their gardens, can never become
independent building plots for lots of reasons ( no vehicle access,
local byelaws, local plan, building-lines, conservation area,
greenbelt). Any vendor buying an extra patch of garden with future
housing development in mind, should check out local development
restrictions beforehand; especially if he's hoping to turn farmland into
residential garden. He will require planning consent for that change of
use, and very often, planning depts only grant that consent with a
permanent ban on future building-development.
Janet
| |
| michael adams 2005-09-26, 3:21 pm |
|
"Janet Baraclough" <janet.and.john@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:31303030393032394337075A44@zetnet.co.uk...
> The OP may also have to apply for planning permision, "change of use",
> from, say, arable farmland to domestic garden. The local planning office
> can advise. Doing that for yourself, if necessary, is time consuming but
> straightforward and not expensive.
....
That indeed would be the case were the OP asking for advice on
"Buying a bit of my neighbour's field", rather than "Buying a bit of
my neighbour's garden." Unless that is, the neighbour was a indeed a
farmer who was willing to sell off part of his well-tended vegetable
garden for some reason. Which I somehow doubt.
....
>
> To the OP; if you live in a rural area and are buying farm land,
> don't imagine you are going to get it at the local rate paid for farm,
> grazing or arable land. (That can be as low as a few hundred per acre in
> some areas) You are buying a * domestic home asset* which will enhance
> the value of your residential property. Your vendor knows that. Expect
> to pay at a rate of something-thousands per acre. It's still a bargain.
....
If this were relevant in these circumstances, this price differential
is also something I'd imagine the local Planning Office would want take
into account before contemplating granting consent for a Change of Use.
Otherwise there would be nothing to stop farmers selling off small parcels
of farm land to the owners of adjoining residential properties, in say
commuter belts, at a premium, profiting thereby, and altering the local
balance of land use. On the somewhat questionable assumption nowadays
perhaps, that farm land will provide more local employment opportunities
than will domestic gardens. So that in the more desirable areas at least,
I'd imagine there'd be a reluctance to set a precedent.
michael adams
....
>
> When we were in your position, I could not persuade the
> neighbour-vendor to name his price. In the end we decided what it was
> worth to us (and what we could afford) and made ouir best and only
> offer; which was exactly what he was waiting to find out. He promptly
> accepted.
>
> Janet
>
>
| |
| Tickettyboo 2005-09-27, 12:21 am |
| In news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk,
Pedro Popadopolous whispered softly in my ear...:
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
Depending on the circumstances, there may be bigger concerns than price
to negotiate.
We have sold some of our large-ish garden to a neighbour. We did not
need / require such a large garden so, in theory, the sale was a good
idea for both parties. The price agreed was reasonable and was, in fact,
the original offer the neighbour made ( in other words what it was worth
to him and what he could afford) The only negotiating involved was to
satisfy our concerns that , at some future date another neighbour would
sell part of their garden and the combined area would then be big enough
for someone to use as a building plot. Whilst I don't want a big garden,
I don't want a new house at the bottom it. We got round the possibility
by means of a complicated ( but legally binding) agreement which our
neighbour was happy with.
--
Ticketty᧧
| |
|
| .. We got round the possibility
> by means of a complicated ( but legally binding) agreement which our
> neighbour was happy with.
>
Yes. The twenty eight people who lived around the large piece of land I
acquired with my house were quite happy that an agreement, 'a covenant to
prevent building', was sitting on the land.
My Solicitor had it removed and there are now two blocks of flats sitting on
it.
Mike
| |
|
|
"Mike" <not@here.thank.you> wrote in message
news:dhard2$oo4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>. We got round the possibility
>
> Yes. The twenty eight people who lived around the large piece of land I
> acquired with my house were quite happy that an agreement, 'a covenant to
> prevent building', was sitting on the land.
>
> My Solicitor had it removed and there are now two blocks of flats sitting
> on
> it.
I bet the twenty eight other people who lived there before don't like you
anymore though..
| |
|
| >
> I bet the twenty eight other people who lived there before don't like you
> anymore though..
>
The piece of land was bounded by 28 back gardens, mine included. Just one
property, an end of terrace in the next road, had a wide side garden. The
previous owner to my house had approached the owner and asked if he wanted
to sell the side garden. No.
I did look at the possibility of demolishing my house for access, but as it
was a large detached house and not a financially viable proposition.
I had been in the house nearly four years, when out of the blue, the chappy
in the next road put his house up for sale and on the open market. The first
thing I knew was when the For Sale sign went up. I bought it at the asking
price, separated the side garden off and sold the house. Separated the land
from my house. Sold the land and sold the house I was living in. Planning
department had told me they wanted the small pockets of land within the City
Boundary so planning permission was no problem.
The neighbours appealed against the planning permission and it was thrown
out.
Simplicity in itself was for them to buy the house and land. Separate the
land off and make a small park with a covenant on it to the benefit of ALL
the neighbours. ALL would have had to agree the removal and built on.
Mike
| |
| Tickettyboo 2005-09-27, 11:21 am |
| In news:dhard2$oo4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
Mike whispered softly in my ear...:
> . We got round the possibility
>
> Yes. The twenty eight people who lived around the large piece of land
> I acquired with my house were quite happy that an agreement, 'a
> covenant to prevent building', was sitting on the land.
>
> My Solicitor had it removed and there are now two blocks of flats
> sitting on it.
I didn't say it was a covenant, I said it was a legally binding
agreement. ( a contract) .
I am aware that it may be worth any fine for ignoring a convenant , or
paying for it to be removed if the land can be used for building .
--
Ticketty᧧
| |
| Mike Lyle 2005-09-27, 11:21 am |
| Mike wrote:
>
> The piece of land was bounded by 28 back gardens, mine included.
Just
> one property, an end of terrace in the next road, had a wide side
> garden. The previous owner to my house had approached the owner and
> asked if he wanted to sell the side garden. No.
>
> I did look at the possibility of demolishing my house for access,
but
> as it was a large detached house and not a financially viable
> proposition.
>
> I had been in the house nearly four years, when out of the blue,
the
> chappy in the next road put his house up for sale and on the open
> market. The first thing I knew was when the For Sale sign went up.
I
> bought it at the asking price, separated the side garden off and
sold
> the house. Separated the land from my house. Sold the land and sold
> the house I was living in. Planning department had told me they
> wanted the small pockets of land within the City Boundary so
planning
> permission was no problem.
>
> The neighbours appealed against the planning permission and it was
> thrown out.
>
> Simplicity in itself was for them to buy the house and land.
Separate
> the land off and make a small park with a covenant on it to the
> benefit of ALL the neighbours. ALL would have had to agree the
> removal and built on.
Simplicity itself. 28 people get their organisation and some money
together before one profiteer acting on his own and with a head
start. A definition of "simplicity itself" with which I was
previously unfamiliar. Enjoy being proud of yourself.
| |
|
|
> I am aware that it may be worth any fine for ignoring a convenant , or
> paying for it to be removed if the land can be used for building .
>
Cost nothing :-))
| |
|
|
>
> Simplicity itself. 28 people get their organisation and some money
> together before one profiteer acting on his own and with a head
> start. A definition of "simplicity itself" with which I was
> previously unfamiliar. Enjoy being proud of yourself.
>
>
:-)) ?????????????
Funny how they got themselves organised AFTER, please note AFTER I had
contacted the Estate Agent, talked to my Bank for a loan, contacted the
Estate Agent AGAIN, made an offer, (full asking price), instructed the
Solicitor, and the SOLD sign gone up. 5 minutes work on my side?
In the words of the King Net Nanny "I think not"
How long does it take to sell a house up to and including exchange of
contracts? I am selling property, again in Leicester, and it has taken from
mid August to now to get to finalisation stage and the completion date is
due to be October 15th. Don't tell me that something could not have been
done sooner in the case of the property deal to stop me.
No. The people sat back on a message that 'No building on this land' was in
force. WRONG :-))
'Enjoy being proud of yourself' sings out 'You lucky Bastard, I wish it was
me'
:-))))))))))
Mike
| |
| Tickettyboo 2005-09-27, 4:21 pm |
| In news:dhbqdj$can$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
Mike whispered softly in my ear...:
>
> Cost nothing :-))
You have a solicitor who works for free? That is very unusual, it may
not have been itemised on his bill, but I would bet my boots you paid
for it
--
Ticketty᧧
| |
| Harold Walker 2005-09-27, 4:21 pm |
|
"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message
news:3ptinaFc6ag3U1@individual.net...
> In news:dhbqdj$can$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
> Mike whispered softly in my ear...:
>
> You have a solicitor who works for free? That is very unusual, it may not
> have been itemised on his bill, but I would bet my boots you paid for it
>
> --
> Ticketty᧧
Have been around for along while and never heard of any lawyer doing
anything for free when it comes to legal stuff....H
>
| |
|
|
"Tickettyboo" <tickettyboo@mail2oops.com> wrote in message
news:3ptinaFc6ag3U1@individual.net...
> In news:dhbqdj$can$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com,
> Mike whispered softly in my ear...:
>
> You have a solicitor who works for free? That is very unusual, it may
> not have been itemised on his bill, but I would bet my boots you paid
> for it
>
> --
> Ticketty᧧
>
Sorry, I explained it badly, there was no fee to have the covenant removed
as it was not registered with Land Registry. Yes it would have been in the
Solicitors 'overall' fee and no, you are correct, it was not itemised.
Mike
| |
| Spider 2005-09-28, 9:21 am |
|
Pedro Popadopolous <Pedro@fowl_Dontspammeplease_mere.com> wrote in message
news:dh66ce$bek$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Has anyone any idea to help me start negotiating?
>
> Price per acre?
>
> Thanks
>
>
Hi Pedro,
I should think the easiest way to find out would be to approach a local
estate agent. They ought to know local land prices *and* what is legally
involved.
Spider
| |
| An Oasis 2005-09-29, 5:21 am |
|
Spider Wrote:
> Pedro Popadopolous
>
> Price per acre?
>
> Thanks
>
> [/i][/color]
>
> Try http://www.defra.gov.uk/
--
An Oasis
| |
|
| In article <ULudnUfmKtaPnaTeRVnyrw@giganews.com>, adm <adm1@fastmail.fm>
writes
>
>"Mike" <not@here.thank.you> wrote in message
>news:dhard2$oo4$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>
>I bet the twenty eight other people who lived there before don't like you
>anymore though..
>
and this from the person that frequently posts about keeping friendly
with his neighbours!
--
regards andyw
| |
|
|
"newsb" <news@benevolent.org.uk> wrote in message
news:t4KNWKDg3RPDFw4w@benevolent.org.uk...
> In article <ULudnUfmKtaPnaTeRVnyrw@giganews.com>, adm <adm1@fastmail.fm>
> writes
to[color=darkred]
sitting[color=darkred]
>
> and this from the person that frequently posts about keeping friendly
> with his neighbours!
>
and?
your point is?
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| martin 2005-09-30, 9:21 am |
| On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:28:52 +0000 (UTC), "Mike" <not@here.thank.you>
wrote:
>
>"newsb" <news@benevolent.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:t4KNWKDg3RPDFw4w@benevolent.org.uk...
>to
>sitting
>
>
>and?
>
>your point is?
>
It's obvious.
--
Martin
| |
|
| Please explain.
"martin" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:499qj11mep871k36o2d6g20qlvcab6qjjt@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:28:52 +0000 (UTC), "Mike" <not@here.thank.you>
> wrote:
>
<adm1@fastmail.fm>[color=darkred]
land I[color=darkred]
covenant[color=darkred]
you[color=darkred]
>
> It's obvious.
> --
> Martin
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