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| Cat(h) 2007-11-12, 1:25 pm |
| Having hacked back and weeded the garden in preparation for winter, I
am now arranging to have considerable amounts of farmyard muck
delivered which I then propose to spread over the veg patch and in the
ornamental beds also.
I am then planning to let the elements and the worms work their magic.
Just one question: should I dig the veg patch first, then mulch, or
should I much now, and wait till spring to do any digging ? (the
latter appeals immensely:-)
TIA
Cat(h)
| |
| Bob Hobden 2007-11-12, 1:25 pm |
|
"Cat(h)" wrote ...
> Having hacked back and weeded the garden in preparation for winter, I
> am now arranging to have considerable amounts of farmyard muck
> delivered which I then propose to spread over the veg patch and in the
> ornamental beds also.
> I am then planning to let the elements and the worms work their magic.
> Just one question: should I dig the veg patch first, then mulch, or
> should I much now, and wait till spring to do any digging ? (the
> latter appeals immensely:-)
Sorry, I do both. :-)
--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK
| |
| Cat(h) 2007-11-13, 9:25 am |
| On Nov 12, 5:31 pm, "Bob Hobden" <b...@invalid.com> wrote:
> "Cat(h)" wrote ...
>
>
> Sorry, I do both. :-)
>
I was *really* hoping I would not be told that...
Ah well. Let's hope for a dry week end :-)
Cat(h)
| |
| Nigel Cliffe 2007-11-13, 1:25 pm |
| Cat(h) wrote:
> Having hacked back and weeded the garden in preparation for winter, I
> am now arranging to have considerable amounts of farmyard muck
> delivered which I then propose to spread over the veg patch and in the
> ornamental beds also.
> I am then planning to let the elements and the worms work their magic.
> Just one question: should I dig the veg patch first, then mulch, or
> should I much now, and wait till spring to do any digging ? (the
> latter appeals immensely:-)
I think it depends on your soil :-)
The heavier bits of mine are being dug now, prior to the application of
muck. The better lighter beds can just have it spread over, and digging can
be in the spring.
Gardner's Question Time recommended that you mulch when the soil is warm to
trap the heat inside. Or at least as warm as its likely to get at this time
of year.
My second trailer load of horse muck needs unloading tomorrow.
- Nigel
--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
| |
| Cat(h) 2007-11-13, 8:25 pm |
| On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:21:05 -0000, "Nigel Cliffe" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
>Cat(h) wrote:
>
>I think it depends on your soil :-)
>
>The heavier bits of mine are being dug now, prior to the application of
>muck. The better lighter beds can just have it spread over, and digging can
>be in the spring.
>
>Gardner's Question Time recommended that you mulch when the soil is warm to
>trap the heat inside. Or at least as warm as its likely to get at this time
>of year.
>
Hmmm... Ok. I have till Saturday to prepare myself mentally :-)
>
>My second trailer load of horse muck needs unloading tomorrow.
No, I'm not helping out. I have my own to wheelbarrow and dig. That's
enough occupation for me.
Cat(h)
| |
| Colin Hammond 2007-11-19, 5:25 pm |
| Just a warning. I bought a load of cow manure a few years ago which
contained so many chemicals that my vegetables, especialy the runner beans,
were inedible for a year and didn't seem to get back to giving that feel
good feeling for a couple of more years.
"Cat(h)" <cathy_ie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1194888021.338761.125310@v2g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Having hacked back and weeded the garden in preparation for winter, I
> am now arranging to have considerable amounts of farmyard muck
> delivered which I then propose to spread over the veg patch and in the
> ornamental beds also.
> I am then planning to let the elements and the worms work their magic.
> Just one question: should I dig the veg patch first, then mulch, or
> should I much now, and wait till spring to do any digging ? (the
> latter appeals immensely:-)
> TIA
>
> Cat(h)
>
| |
| Cat(h) 2007-11-20, 9:25 am |
| On Nov 19, 10:02 pm, "Colin Hammond" <co...@hammond.saotome> wrote:
> Just a warning. I bought a load of cow manure a few years ago which
> contained so many chemicals that my vegetables, especialy the runner beans,
> were inedible for a year and didn't seem to get back to giving that feel
> good feeling for a couple of more years."
I've used this stuff before, and it is fine. It is a mix of peat and
very high pedigree bullshit (literally) + some small amount of chopped
straw. I am near neighbour to a bull stud evaluation farm.
But I am curious. How did you know your stuff was full of chemicals -
did you get it analysed in a lab? And how were the beans "inedible"?
Cat(h)
| |
| helene@urbed.coop 2007-11-21, 9:25 am |
| On 20 Nov, 13:22, "Cat(h)" <cathy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've used this stuff before, and it is fine. It is a mix of peat and
> very high pedigree bullshit (literally) + some small amount of chopped
> straw.
Where do you get the 'peat' consistency from the pat and 'small amount
of chopped straw' from? I've used cow manure once, to try, and I
didn't get this consistency nor did it come naturally - I had to
compost it for 6 months and mix it with grass and straw and whatever I
compost before it was any good to use. And if you've already prepared
your beds, as you've said you did, you should have no need to dig.
Cow manure is very different to horse manure. It is first very low in
nitrogen and therefore is the safest to use everywhere, it won't
change your soil ph grately if at all. As for the chemicals in it,
this has been a very long discussion over many garden fences. If you
use cow manure from an organic farm, you might be happier to know that
they would be less prone to using chemicals (as in pesticides).
However the use of antibiotics is something that organic farmers use
if the use is justified. Sadly it is very frequently justified because
of mastitis due to excessive milk production, and that's due to the
organic milk we all suddenly want. Not to mention the cattle feed,
which is imported and used by organic farmers too, to supplement the
feed with nutrients, which cows can't get with hay and grass alone.
As for a 'bull evaluation farm' you live near, I would be very
surprised to find out that they don't use steroids, chemicals,
pesticides and coctails of antibiotics. I might be wrong but this
sounds to me to be like a stud farm.
Also because of the digestive system of cows, weed seeds are less
present in the manure than with horse's manure. But cow manure is very
wet (and difficult to handle) and is best used in spring when the
winter cow yard/barn is cleared (which is then easier to handle and
had time to get 'hot'). Also it needs to be composted. You just cannot
apply fresh cow manure to your plot. You'll turn your soil acid,
especially if you apply it when cold and with it's low nitrogen, you
must ask yourself if you want to 'fertilise' your soil or just 'mulch'
it, and mulching in winter alone on empty plots gives very little
other than not letting the elements break your soil as intended. It
defeats the objective, really. It needs to get hot first, hence the
best time for cow manure to be applied is spring as opposed to horse
manure which you can use in less than 5 weeks if composted.
| |
| Colin Hammond 2007-11-21, 9:25 am |
|
"Cat(h)" <cathy_ie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bf88f6d1-0c4c-4ad7-87ef-b16a53446596@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 19, 10:02 pm, "Colin Hammond" <co...@hammond.saotome> wrote:
>
> I've used this stuff before, and it is fine. It is a mix of peat and
> very high pedigree bullshit (literally) + some small amount of chopped
> straw. I am near neighbour to a bull stud evaluation farm.
> But I am curious. How did you know your stuff was full of chemicals -
> did you get it analysed in a lab? And how were the beans "inedible"?
>
> Cat(h)
"How did I know the cow manure was full of chemicals?" No lab test needed,
just careful observation of how I and my family felt. You should feel good
after eating fresh vegetables from the garden not worse. No other conditions
were changed so that was good enough for me. If I had tested other people I
may have had a different result, but that of course would had been
irrelevant. I have stuck to using garden compost on the vegetable patch
since that experience, I do know what goes on the compost heap! Best place
for cow manure is the flower beds, but even there can be a problem as it
encourages acid loving plants that die off when the manure is exhausted.
Colin
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
|
| On 21/11/07 14:29, in article 474434f4$0$26061$88260bb3@free.teranews.com,
"Colin Hammond" <colin@hammond.saotome> wrote:
>
> "Cat(h)" <cathy_ie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bf88f6d1-0c4c-4ad7-87ef-b16a53446596@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> "How did I know the cow manure was full of chemicals?" No lab test needed,
> just careful observation of how I and my family felt. You should feel good
> after eating fresh vegetables from the garden not worse. No other conditions
> were changed so that was good enough for me. If I had tested other people I
> may have had a different result, but that of course would had been
> irrelevant. I have stuck to using garden compost on the vegetable patch
> since that experience, I do know what goes on the compost heap! Best place
> for cow manure is the flower beds, but even there can be a problem as it
> encourages acid loving plants that die off when the manure is exhausted.
>
> Colin
>
>
I'm sorry but I find this entirely unconvincing. You and your family may
well have caught some virus which you had passed from one to another over a
period of weeks or even months. On top of that, there are 'echo' viruses
which return over and over again to the same person. None of this convinces
me that your manuring of your vegetables made you and your family ill. If
you didn't test the manure you have absolutely no way of knowing that this
made your family unwell. This seems to me to fall into the 'gross
exaggeration' category, to be frank.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'
| |
| David in Normandy 2007-11-21, 5:25 pm |
| In article <C36A370B.5F716%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
says...
> I'm sorry but I find this entirely unconvincing. You and your family may
> well have caught some virus which you had passed from one to another over a
> period of weeks or even months. On top of that, there are 'echo' viruses
> which return over and over again to the same person. None of this convinces
> me that your manuring of your vegetables made you and your family ill. If
> you didn't test the manure you have absolutely no way of knowing that this
> made your family unwell. This seems to me to fall into the 'gross
> exaggeration' category, to be frank.
>
>
>
People often put 2 and 2 together and make 5 regarding food. Many years
ago my father had a headache following eating food heated up in a
relatives microwave oven. As a result he refused to ever buy a microwave
oven. He is convinced that food that has been in one is somehow
radioactive and gives off microwaves after eating it! Other than this
oddity he is quite a rational man and a competent electrician and
engineer!
--
David in Normandy
| |
|
| On 21/11/07 20:16, in article MPG.21aeb078c2ac8bfe989714@news.wanadoo.fr,
"David in Normandy" <DavidInNormandy@no.spam> wrote:
> In article <C36A370B.5F716%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
> says...
>
> People often put 2 and 2 together and make 5 regarding food. Many years
> ago my father had a headache following eating food heated up in a
> relatives microwave oven. As a result he refused to ever buy a microwave
> oven. He is convinced that food that has been in one is somehow
> radioactive and gives off microwaves after eating it! Other than this
> oddity he is quite a rational man and a competent electrician and
> engineer!
My stepfather refused ever to eat Chinese food because he'd once read of
some scandal in the 50s of a Chinese restaurant serving cat food. He was
utterly convinced it was a component of every Chinese meal. As a result, he
was dead and my mother in her 70s before she ever ate - and thoroughly
enjoyed - a Chinese meal. But all through it she kept saying "what would
your father have said....." ;-) In the end I suggested "miaow", which did
at least make her laugh!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'
| |
| Cat(h) 2007-11-22, 9:25 am |
| On Nov 21, 2:29 pm, "Colin Hammond" <co...@hammond.saotome> wrote:
> "Cat(h)" <cathy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bf88f6d1-0c4c-4ad7-87ef-b16a53446596@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
> "How did I know the cow manure was full of chemicals?" No lab test needed,
> just careful observation of how I and my family felt. You should feel good
> after eating fresh vegetables from the garden not worse. No other conditions
> were changed so that was good enough for me. If I had tested other people I
> may have had a different result, but that of course would had been
> irrelevant.
snip
Not very scientific, but whatever rocks your boat.
I and the other people I serve them to enjoy the fresh veg from my
garden, and have noted no ill effect from consuming same.
Cat(h)
| |
| Cat(h) 2007-11-22, 9:25 am |
| On Nov 21, 12:34 pm, hel...@urbed.coop wrote:
> On 20 Nov, 13:22, "Cat(h)" <cathy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Where do you get the 'peat' consistency from the pat and 'small amount
> of chopped straw' from? I've used cow manure once, to try, and I
> didn't get this consistency nor did it come naturally - I had to
> compost it for 6 months and mix it with grass and straw and whatever I
> compost before it was any good to use. And if you've already prepared
> your beds, as you've said you did, you should have no need to dig.
Peat and straw is what the bulls are bedded on. So what I am getting
is the well rotted bedding, including poo.
Before you remind me that peat is an unrenewable resource - which it
is, at least on the scale of human life - the fact is that the farm
uses it, and I am quite happy to "recycle" it to add organic matter
into my garden.
>
> Cow manure is very different to horse manure. It is first very low in
> nitrogen and therefore is the safest to use everywhere, it won't
> change your soil ph grately if at all. As for the chemicals in it,
> this has been a very long discussion over many garden fences. If you
> use cow manure from an organic farm, you might be happier to know that
> they would be less prone to using chemicals (as in pesticides).
> However the use of antibiotics is something that organic farmers use
> if the use is justified. Sadly it is very frequently justified because
> of mastitis due to excessive milk production, and that's due to the
> organic milk we all suddenly want. Not to mention the cattle feed,
> which is imported and used by organic farmers too, to supplement the
> feed with nutrients, which cows can't get with hay and grass alone.
> #
Not many bulls get treated for mastitis... But no, the local bull
station is not an outpost of organic activism.
> As for a 'bull evaluation farm' you live near, I would be very
> surprised to find out that they don't use steroids, chemicals,
> pesticides and coctails of antibiotics. I might be wrong but this
> sounds to me to be like a stud farm.
No pulling wool over your eyes, is there? ;-)
snip
Cat(h)
| |
| helene@urbed.coop 2007-11-22, 1:25 pm |
| On 22 Nov, 12:30, "Cat(h)" <cathy...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Peat and straw is what the bulls are bedded on. So what I am getting
> is the well rotted bedding, including poo.
> Before you remind me that peat is an unrenewable resource - which it
> is, at least on the scale of human life - the fact is that the farm
> uses it, and I am quite happy to "recycle" it to add organic matter
> into my garden.
Oh, absolutely. You're doing well in doing so. I didn't know that peat
was used as bedding. Now that I also remember that you live in
Ireland, I think, I'm not surprised and you are very lucky to have
found a good source, in plenty and for nothing!
> Not many bulls get treated for mastitis...
LOL! A slight oversight. But this was a point for Colin who I hope
will not give up on the cow pooh altogether. These issues are being
talked about everywhere, but finding a middle ground and some well
backed facts is hard. I think in this case it's what works for you.
Though I don't beleive the illness due to the manure. I'm sure it has
nothing to do with it. And it is interesting to see that if he
convinced himself with this to start with he might have overlooked
something else. It happens so many times.
But no, the local bull
> station is not an outpost of organic activism.
You don't say :o))
> No pulling wool over your eyes, is there? ;-)
<g>
| |
| helene@urbed.coop 2007-11-22, 1:25 pm |
| On 21 Nov, 20:16, David in Normandy <DavidInNorma...@no.spam> wrote:
> People often put 2 and 2 together and make 5 regarding food.
I did that, with my father in law. For years he kept saying that
onions gave him bad dreams. For years and years I thought just that,
bad dreams, and cooked for him without onions, which is quite easy
when he doesn't eat anything else but meat and a selection of vegs.
Until recently I realised that he meant flatulence ... not bad
dreams. David, don't try this sentence at home. Won't work with the
French ;o)
| |
| David in Normandy 2007-11-22, 1:25 pm |
| In article <49721252-3224-4847-8411-ae86f45e1728
@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, says...
> On 21 Nov, 20:16, David in Normandy <DavidInNorma...@no.spam> wrote:
> David, don't try this sentence at home. Won't work with the
> French ;o)
>
I recently bought a couple of books on French idioms/slang phrases. Some
are quite amusing e.g: "Manger les pissenlits par la racine" which my
books says means "To eat dandelions by the root" - equivalent to the
English "to push up daisies" :-)
--
David in Normandy
| |
| Colin Hammond 2007-11-22, 5:25 pm |
| What an aggressive reply from Sacha. I was just passing on my observation.
He may be trying to convince himself it's not true. Of course lots of other
possible explanations are possible but I was convinced that I suffered ill
effects from eating the vegetables an effect that was still just detectable
the second year. As I said it may not affect anyone else but that doesn't
mean my observations were wrong. Everyone is not the same neither is every
cow farm. An interseting theory that there was a fast acting virus at the
top of the garden that I carried back to the house with the veg! As for
testing the manure; I wonder what chemicals I should be searching for,
perhaps I should have myself tested as well to find out what I am sensitive
to; no thanks! Would you buy a microwave oven if you found that food
prepared in it gave you a headache, just because you couldn't explain it?
Colin
"Sacha" <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:C36A370B.5F716%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk...
> On 21/11/07 14:29, in article 474434f4$0$26061$88260bb3@free.teranews.com,
> "Colin Hammond" <colin@hammond.saotome> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry but I find this entirely unconvincing. You and your family may
> well have caught some virus which you had passed from one to another over
> a
> period of weeks or even months. On top of that, there are 'echo' viruses
> which return over and over again to the same person. None of this
> convinces
> me that your manuring of your vegetables made you and your family ill. If
> you didn't test the manure you have absolutely no way of knowing that this
> made your family unwell. This seems to me to fall into the 'gross
> exaggeration' category, to be frank.
>
>
> --
> Sacha
> http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
> South Devon
> (remove weeds from address)
> 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
> children.'
>
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
|
|
"Colin Hammond" <colin@hammond.saotome> wrote in message
news:4745d0c4$0$25990$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> What an aggressive reply from Sacha. I was just passing on my observation.
> He may be trying to convince himself it's not true. Of course lots of
other
> possible explanations are possible but I was convinced that I suffered ill
> effects from eating the vegetables an effect that was still just
detectable
> the second year. As I said it may not affect anyone else but that doesn't
> mean my observations were wrong. Everyone is not the same neither is every
> cow farm. An interseting theory that there was a fast acting virus at the
> top of the garden that I carried back to the house with the veg! As for
> testing the manure; I wonder what chemicals I should be searching for,
> perhaps I should have myself tested as well to find out what I am
sensitive
> to; no thanks! Would you buy a microwave oven if you found that food
> prepared in it gave you a headache, just because you couldn't explain it?
>
> Colin
> "Sacha" <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:C36A370B.5F716%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk...
474434f4$0$26061$88260bb3@free.teranews.com,[color=darkred]
news:bf88f6d1-0c4c-4ad7-87ef-b16a53446596@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
people[color=darkred]
it[color=darkred]
exhausted.[color=darkred]
may[color=darkred]
over[color=darkred]
viruses[color=darkred]
If[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
----------------------
I am retired, have lived on my own for two years , have at last come to
terms with it and all of my cooking is done on that marvellous cooker called
a Microwave. Now that I am more experienced it is a blessing, and so easy
to use in any kind of food setup. (Especial mention re. my very-bezzie
taste for onions, which I simply cut into two, and in a few minutes, only
slightly longer time than for other veg and bingo!, Yum-yum!.
As for any rubbish talk about 'radiation'!,- it's all bullshine: I'm as fit
as a butchers pooch.
Douglas Adam Denny.
______________
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