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What Grew In Victorian Public Parks?
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| Howard Haigh 2007-03-27, 1:25 pm |
| Hi All
I'm asking this on behalf of a friend who is engaged in an art project and
she would like to know what plants would have appeared in Victorian public
parks - well actually in one particular public park (Peel Park in Salford,
opened in 1846). From what I can see the Victorians were keen on colourful
borders but some of you out there might know a lot more and could name a few
plants.
I'll forward replies on to her (she uses e-mail but doesn't know anything
about newsgroups and URG).
TIA
Howard
| |
|
| On 27/3/07 18:37, in article JDcOh.742$NK2.170@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk,
"Howard Haigh" <hh001c7439@$NOSPAMPLEASE$blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I'm asking this on behalf of a friend who is engaged in an art project and
> she would like to know what plants would have appeared in Victorian public
> parks - well actually in one particular public park (Peel Park in Salford,
> opened in 1846). From what I can see the Victorians were keen on colourful
> borders but some of you out there might know a lot more and could name a few
> plants.
>
> I'll forward replies on to her (she uses e-mail but doesn't know anything
> about newsgroups and URG).
>
I'd suggest she contacts Kew, as well as this group. And are there no
public records/photographs etc of the period? They might not have written
down what they planted but there might be photographs. She could get the
people of Salford involved in hunting through their family snapshots and
make it a communal interest project. ;-)
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
| judith.lea99@googlemail.com 2007-03-27, 1:25 pm |
| On Mar 27, 6:37 pm, "Howard Haigh" <hh001c7439@$NOSPAMPLEASE
$blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I'm asking this on behalf of a friend who is engaged in an art project and
> she would like to know what plants would have appeared in Victorian public
> parks - well actually in one particular public park (Peel Park in Salford,
> opened in 1846). From what I can see the Victorians were keen on colourful
> borders but some of you out there might know a lot more and could name a few
> plants.
>
> I'll forward replies on to her (she uses e-mail but doesn't know anything
> about newsgroups and URG).
>
> TIA
>
> Howard
Howard, try Googling on the Victorian Garden at Norwich. I have
worked on the project, now complete, where an original Victorian
garden, with a folly, was discovered under years and years of leaf
mould. It is a great garden and open to the public.
Judith
| |
| Pete ‹(•¿•)› 2007-03-27, 5:25 pm |
| On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 17:37:45 GMT, "Howard Haigh"
<hh001c7439@$NOSPAMPLEASE$blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi All
>
>I'm asking this on behalf of a friend who is engaged in an art project and
>she would like to know what plants would have appeared in Victorian public
>parks - well actually in one particular public park (Peel Park in Salford,
>opened in 1846). From what I can see the Victorians were keen on colourful
>borders but some of you out there might know a lot more and could name a few
>plants.
>
>I'll forward replies on to her (she uses e-mail but doesn't know anything
>about newsgroups and URG).
>
>TIA
>
>Howard
>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/desi...ictorian3.shtml
Victorian characters
The plant hunters
Records of plant hunting date back to 1495BC when Queen Hatshetsup
sent botanists out to Somalia to collect incense trees. But the
Victorian period was the golden era of plant collecting. There was a
desire for exploration and discovery and Victorian plant hunters were
botanical adventurers who risked life and limb to bring back exotic
plants from around the world.
Many of them died on their travels, but their legacy lives on in the
plants that many of us now consider to be part of the quintessential
British landscape.
William and Thomas Lobb
Cornish brothers William and Thomas Lobb were two of the most
prominent and prolific Victorian plant hunters, working alongside the
famous British plant nursery Veitch & Sons.
William introduced many species from North and South America,
including famous plants such as the monkey puzzle tree and
wellingtonia. Thomas travelled East and collected plants from
Indonesia, India and the Philippines.
George Forrest (1873 to 1932)
George Forrest travelled mainly to China, Tibet and Burma. He was
responsible for introducing about 600 species of plants, 300 of which
were rhododendrons. He also brought back camellias, magnolias,
Himalayan poppies and primulas.
Joseph Hooker (1817 to 1911)
Joseph Hooker, William Hooker's son, brought back more than 28 new
species of rhododendrons from his expeditions to the Himalaya in 1848
and 1851. The craze for rhododendrons soon swept the UK. Hooker was a
close friend of Charles Darwin and eventually became director of the
Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew.
Robert Fortune (1812 to 1880)
Robert Fortune began his botanical career at the Royal Botanic
Gardens, Edinburgh. He later became deputy superintendent of the
Horticultural Society (later to become the Royal Horticultural
Society) at Chiswick. In 1843 he was commissioned by the society to
travel to China to collect plants. After travelling extensively
through China and Japan, he introduced more than 120 species to
English gardens.
Fortune's overseas adventures included investigations into the
commercial opportunities in growing tea. Commissioned by the British
East India Company, he disguised himself as a Chinese peasant as he
smuggled out cuttings of the tea plant Camellia sinensis from China
into India. These cuttings enabled India and Ceylon to become
established as major growers and exporters of tea.
Plants Robert Fortune introduced include: Trachycarpus fortunei,
Dicentra spectabilisMahonia japonica, Jasminum nudiflorum and Skimmia
japonica
William Andrew Nesfield (1793 to 1881)
William Nesfield was born in 1793. He graduated from Trinity College,
Cambridge and enlisted in the army in 1809, fighting in Spain and
Canada. He retired on half pay in 1816 and dedicated himself to
painting watercolours between 1823 and 1843.
In the later half of his life, Nesfield's passion changed to landscape
gardening.
Drawing upon pre-18th-century garden styles, he gained a reputation
for elaborate designs. His style often combined using elaborate
parterres with modern plants.
He worked on Regent's Park, St James's Park, The Royal Botanic
Gardens, Kew, Grimston Park, Holkham Hall, Broughton Hall and Witley
Court.
Sir Joseph Paxton (1803 to 1865)
Paxton was probably the most famous of the Victorian gardeners. The
son of a farmer with only a very basic education, Paxton eventually
became responsible for the gardens at Chatsworth House owned by the
Duke of Devonshire.
Paxton designed the new conservatory at Chatsworth which was built to
a distinctive ridge and furrow pattern and later the Crystal Palace in
London, for which he was knighted by Queen Victoria. He eventually
became a millionaire because of commercial investments, such as
selling small greenhouses to amateur gardeners.
John Claudius Loudon (1783 to 1843)
John Loudon was a major influence on gardens and gardening during his
lifetime. One of the key gardens he designed - Birmingham Botanic
Gardens - became synonymous with the Gardenesque movement.
A prolific writer, it's estimated that Loudon wrote more than 66
million words in his lifetime. In The Gardener's Magazine he enthused
and educated the newly prosperous middle classes with gardening tips
and advice.
Loudon was a great campaigner and fought hard for better pay and
conditions for gardeners. He also came up with the idea for a green
belt around cities which he called 'breathing zones'. His efforts
transformed middle class gardens around Britain.
--
Avoid the rush at the last judgement. Be converted now instead!
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| |
|
| This will not help you with flower borders, but a 100+ year old map drawn at
6 inches to the mile by the Ordnance Survey would show the trees fairly
accurately (I've even seen a tree stump identified as such in a field on one
map) besides being fascinating: so go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ and
download a free map of Salford (but you did not say which one!).
Everybody who reads this will enjoy wandering around
Geoff
| |
| Mike Lyle 2007-03-27, 5:25 pm |
| Sacha wrote:
> On 27/3/07 18:37, in article
> JDcOh.742$NK2.170@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk, "Howard Haigh"
> <hh001c7439@$NOSPAMPLEASE$blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'd suggest she contacts Kew, as well as this group. And are there no
> public records/photographs etc of the period? They might not have
> written down what they planted but there might be photographs. She
> could get the people of Salford involved in hunting through their
> family snapshots and make it a communal interest project. ;-)
Yes. And it would be worth going to the council parks department:
detailed records would certainly have been kept at the time, and may
have been preserved in the council archive.
--
Mike.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
|
| In message <0tdOh.8390$F82.2766@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>, Geoff
<NOJOY@virgin.net> writes
>This will not help you with flower borders, but a 100+ year old map drawn at
>6 inches to the mile by the Ordnance Survey would show the trees fairly
>accurately (I've even seen a tree stump identified as such in a field on one
>map) besides being fascinating: so go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ and
>download a free map of Salford (but you did not say which one!).
>
>Everybody who reads this will enjoy wandering around
>
>Geoff
>
>
You're right! Fascinating maps!
--
Klara, Gatwick basin
| |
| Janet Tweedy 2007-03-27, 8:25 pm |
| In article <C22F16CE.47C3A%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
<sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>I'd suggest she contacts Kew, as well as this group.
I suggest Waddesdon Manor which was and still is well known for giant
bedding schemes etc.
Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
| |
|
| On 27/3/07 23:24, in article nTgJUUGXmZCGFwmu@ukonline.co.uk, "Janet Tweedy"
<jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <C22F16CE.47C3A%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
> <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>
>
> I suggest Waddesdon Manor which was and still is well known for giant
> bedding schemes etc.
>
Some very good ideas here, I'd say. This could turn into rather a fine
'local interest' project, involving families whose ancestors lived there at
the time, locaL archives, newspaper photos etc. I hope we'll learn of the
outcome on here because it seems to be a fascinating subject.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
| Rupert \(W.Yorkshire\) 2007-03-27, 8:25 pm |
|
"Howard Haigh" <hh001c7439@$NOSPAMPLEASE$blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:JDcOh.742$NK2.170@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Hi All
>
> I'm asking this on behalf of a friend who is engaged in an art project and
> she would like to know what plants would have appeared in Victorian public
> parks - well actually in one particular public park (Peel Park in Salford,
> opened in 1846). From what I can see the Victorians were keen on colourful
> borders but some of you out there might know a lot more and could name a
> few
> plants.
>
> I'll forward replies on to her (she uses e-mail but doesn't know anything
> about newsgroups and URG).
>
> TIA
>
> Howard
>
>
I once owned a private garden which was remodelled around 1850.
So 150 years latter there were the obvious remnants of grand design but none
more noticeable than Bamboo (Sasa) and Japanese knotweed.!!
The more charming plants of that era were well gone
Anything with vibrant colour to alleviate
the dull drab Vicky era was in fashion, such as Cana.
Think bold and big colour or leaf and that would be the fashion.
Two world wars and a different urgency rather side tracked garden design.
The best of British and please let us know what you find out about plants in
those times
| |
| La Puce 2007-03-28, 9:25 am |
| On 27 Mar, 18:37, "Howard Haigh" <hh001c7439@$NOSPAMPLEASE
$blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
(Peel Park in Salford,
Hello Howard. I'm based in Manchester ;o)
The victorians loved rhododendrons, primulas, himalayan poppies,
roses, magnolias, camelias, jasmin, cannas, salvia, skimmias,
geraniums, lobellias, lots of ferns, exotic fruits and trees (like the
Monkey puzzle tree) and large leaves plants like Fatsia.
Check with Tatoon park which is in Manchester and therefore same
climate as Peel park, which would give you ideas of what they
planted.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/tatton/2006/e...ns/cheshire.asp
Check also this list of birds and plants on the nature trail in Peel
Park (all plants were there during the victorians though they were not
considered 'show' plants). Great place to cycle too.
http://www.els.salford.ac.uk/urbann...nloads/Peel.pdf
| |
|
| Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:
> I once owned a private garden which was remodelled around 1850.
> So 150 years latter there were the obvious remnants of grand design
> but none more noticeable than Bamboo (Sasa) and Japanese knotweed.!!
> The more charming plants of that era were well gone
> Anything with vibrant colour to alleviate
> the dull drab Vicky era was in fashion, such as Cana.
> Think bold and big colour or leaf and that would be the fashion.
> Two world wars and a different urgency rather side tracked garden
> design. The best of British and please let us know what you find out
> about plants in those times
Try looking at:
http://www.bradford.ac.uk/admin/con...e.php3/LED5512D
a course on:
The Victorian Garden and Public Park
Despite large-scale industrial and social expansion in the nineteenth
century, many gardens and parks were created. This module will look at a
number of aspects of Victorian gardens in Yorkshire including public parks,
villa gardens and the growth of a gardening industry to cater for the needs
of a new urban society. This module includes one field trip.
The lecturer is likely to be a good source of info.
pk
| |
| Howard Haigh 2007-03-28, 5:25 pm |
| Thanks everyone for the enthusiastic and knowledgeable replies! Looks like I
might have sparked off quite a discussion here! I must have a bit of the
Victorian in me as I have a couple of aspidistras in the lounge, ever
multiplying rubber plants and dracenae dotted about the house and ferns and
a fatsia were planted in my back garden last year!
I will try to feed back what I can about my friend's art project when it's
completed.
Howard
| |
|
| On 28/3/07 21:47, in article svAOh.1585$NK2.913@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk,
"Howard Haigh" <hh001c7439@$NOSPAMPLEASE$blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the enthusiastic and knowledgeable replies! Looks like I
> might have sparked off quite a discussion here! I must have a bit of the
> Victorian in me as I have a couple of aspidistras in the lounge, ever
> multiplying rubber plants and dracenae dotted about the house and ferns and
> a fatsia were planted in my back garden last year!
>
> I will try to feed back what I can about my friend's art project when it's
> completed.
>
I think you have indeed sparked off a discussion. This is gardening
history, after all. It sounds extremely interesting and as I said before, I
do hope we'll hear more about the finished project.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
| Janet Tweedy 2007-03-29, 9:25 am |
| In article <C22F5DAC.47CD2%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
<sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>Some very good ideas here, I'd say. This could turn into rather a fine
>'local interest' project, involving families whose ancestors lived there at
>the time, locaL archives, newspaper photos etc. I hope we'll learn of the
>outcome on here because it seems to be a fascinating subject.
Many TV gardeners started by creating the massed bedding schemes that
used to be in most parks. I am fairly sure Alan Titchmarsh said he used
to pot up thousands of small bedding plants as did that 'cockney'
presenter Phil something or other.
Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
| |
| Janet Tweedy 2007-03-29, 9:25 am |
| In article <C23093B8.47EA3%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
<sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>I think you have indeed sparked off a discussion. This is gardening
>history, after all. It sounds extremely interesting and as I said before, I
>do hope we'll hear more about the finished project.
Do architects ever consider contemporary garden fashion when they design
houses?
When considering the outside view I wondered if the conifer years or the
bedding plant era had any influence on how the house might look in its
environment.
Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
| |
|
| On 29/3/07 09:43, in article NcLznmB5w3CGFwCe@ukonline.co.uk, "Janet Tweedy"
<jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <C22F5DAC.47CD2%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
> <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>
>
>
> Many TV gardeners started by creating the massed bedding schemes that
> used to be in most parks. I am fairly sure Alan Titchmarsh said he used
> to pot up thousands of small bedding plants as did that 'cockney'
> presenter Phil something or other.
>
> Janet
The use that 'preformed' stuff now, don't they? I think Kernock Park Plants
do a lot of that sort of bedding for floral clocks etc.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
| Janet Tweedy 2007-03-29, 9:25 am |
| In article <C23141AB.47FC0%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
<sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>The use that 'preformed' stuff now, don't they?
Bit like buying five yards of library books for an authentic
aristocratic air to the old drawing room, what?
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
| |
| La Puce 2007-03-29, 9:25 am |
| On 29 Mar, 09:46, Janet Tweedy <j...@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Do architects ever consider contemporary garden fashion when they design
> houses?
Yes they do, but not all of them. Two great architects that I know off
do, Libeskind and Piano, both are very influence by the surrounding,
sometimes far too much in the case of Libeskind where emotions and
history is always very important to him but not necessarily to his
clients and the citizens. The third best practice to do this is us,
off course.
When I managed 5 environmental art projects on the first park to be
created in Manchester since Victoria, the environment was very
important, but more important were it's people and its history. Since
the housing was entirely new build, we were influenced by the new
designs. Your question is very interesting though, because this is
precisely what is missing at the moment - the practicalities of
gardens on new housing, and more to the point all the particulars of
the site, wind, temperature, water, orientation, size, design and the
soil!! The later is one of my biggest angst - I am so angered by
seeing the state of the new build gardens when the prices of houses do
not really reflect the state of the gardens when they are fill with
rubbles, rubbish top soil and left to the new owners/tenants to spend
a fortune on it's creation or in many many cases, just left as a sad
overgrown lifeless back yard.
This is what I am concentrating on and I look forward to the day when
we can offer interesting gardens on new built to people, at least some
kind of 'starter kit' gardens. If we do this, we can integrate new
communities with the natural fabric, their environment, offering some
sort of guidelines, some sort of ethic of care, using (historically
appropriate - perhaps) local materials, planting native plants,
respecting the local ecology so that we all can contribute towards
greener, healthier and happier communities.
> When considering the outside view I wondered if the conifer years or the
> bedding plant era had any influence on how the house might look in its
> environment.
There were victorian guidelines for cemeteries and for housing too.
Thought the choice of plants were usually to show one's wealth rather
than for fashion as such. Hence the creation of so many arboratum and
follies.
| |
|
| On 29/3/07 12:35, in article wTXMkZIJS6CGFwV6@ukonline.co.uk, "Janet Tweedy"
<jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <C23141AB.47FC0%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
> <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>
>
> Bit like buying five yards of library books for an authentic
> aristocratic air to the old drawing room, what?
>
>
Yes, I've actually seen that advertised!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
|
| "Howard Haigh" wrote
> I'm asking this on behalf of a friend who is engaged in an art project and
> she would like to know what plants would have appeared in Victorian public
> parks - well actually in one particular public park (Peel Park in Salford,
> opened in 1846). From what I can see the Victorians were keen on colourful
> borders but some of you out there might know a lot more and could name a
> few
> plants.
The best clue to what grew there originally is probably taken from the
existing trees of the right age , but I'd be fairly sure that the Victorian
style of the time for this garden was probably what is known as the
"Gardenesque" Style. It seems to me that it was the most favoured style for
public parks of that era around the world for those who wanted to be "up to
the minute".
The main features of this style as far as I can remember it was the use of
exotic trees - less emphasis on bedding on more on trees and paths and
features such as grottos and water features. Don't quote me on this but I'm
trying to remember the many Public gardens, cemeteries (a good source for
this style) and botanic gardens I've been in which were made at that time
and which have been little chaged in the intervening time - most of this
have been in Australia. Some interesting trees such as Araucarias featured
along with more common stuff like camphor laurels and cyprsses. They also
featured structures for sitting in and viewing the surrounds.
It may sound silly but Australia has many gardens etc which were made at
that time and many of them have survived intact in terms of the tree
planting if not the finer features like the curvy paths, fountains and
island beds. One other thing that also applied in Australia at that time was
the desire to be up with the rest of the world at a boom time here and the
parks and gardens were built but over time were left to their own devices by
simple neglect and they stayed that way until they began to be appreciated
in the latter part of the 20th century so they were seldom changed or
encrouched upon because there was no population pressures to take over the
desirable land and because our European history is so short in comparison to
the UK these gardens are now Heritage listed and protected, looked after
well and much written about.
I do remember that Loudon was one of the names associated with Gardenesque
styling but beyond that I can recall nothing about him.
The following cites may help your friend (or not as the case may be):
One superb gardenesque (and Edwardian) design is at a place called Rookwood
Necropolis which is the largest cemetery in the Southern Hemisphere ( a mere
700 acres):
http://www.strathfieldhistory.org.au/Rookwood.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s1358888.htm
This site seems to be very useful if the park was in the Gardenesque style:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=38&gl=au
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