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Broomrape/More garden pictures
|
|
| Muddymike 2007-04-21, 9:25 am |
| Inspired by the wonderful comments on my garden pictures I have uploaded a
few more. Some showing the overgrown mess we took on two and a half years
ago.
Further to the Ivy Broomrape, I have discovered a virtual forest of the
stuff, see first picture at http://www.twango.com/channel/Muddymike.Garden
Must mow the lawns.
Mike
| |
|
| On 21/4/07 10:52, in article 6_CdnWZTBs2JQrTbRVnyuQA@brightview.com,
"Muddymike" <MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
> Inspired by the wonderful comments on my garden pictures I have uploaded a
> few more. Some showing the overgrown mess we took on two and a half years
> ago.
>
<snip>
I think this looks really beautiful, Mike. What a lovely and loved garden
and the house looks so mellow and welcoming. Funny how one is instinctively
drawn to some houses!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
| Martin 2007-04-21, 9:25 am |
| On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:52:01 +0100, "Muddymike" <MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk>
wrote:
>Inspired by the wonderful comments on my garden pictures I have uploaded a
>few more. Some showing the overgrown mess we took on two and a half years
>ago.
>
>Further to the Ivy Broomrape, I have discovered a virtual forest of the
>stuff, see first picture at http://www.twango.com/channel/Muddymike.Garden
>
>Must mow the lawns.
Must change the subject?
--
Martin
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-21, 1:25 pm |
|
"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
news:aopj23l27c8sfcnc7ep9v18o5vke13gl6i@4ax.com...
>
> Must change the subject?
> --
You don't like my subject? Then that what the delete key is for, its nice
you bothered to reply though.
Mike
| |
| judith.lea99@googlemail.com 2007-04-21, 1:25 pm |
| On Apr 21, 10:52 am, "Muddymike" <MikeRog...@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
> Inspired by the wonderful comments on my garden pictures I have uploaded a
> few more. Some showing the overgrown mess we took on two and a half years
> ago.
>
> Further to the Ivy Broomrape, I have discovered a virtual forest of the
> stuff, see first picture athttp://www.twango.com/channel/Muddymike.Garden
>
> Must mow the lawns.
>
> Mike
Mike, your garden is beautiful and it's obviously been a labour of
love for you. Was there any structure to gthe garden when you first
bought the house?
Your soil doesn't look as if it is clay, I am just down the road from
you and we are entirely on clay. Was yours clay to begin with and
what did you do to refine it?
Judith
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-22, 9:25 am |
|
<judith.lea99@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1177179200.381709.322540@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 21, 10:52 am, "Muddymike" <MikeRog...@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Mike, your garden is beautiful and it's obviously been a labour of
> love for you. Was there any structure to gthe garden when you first
> bought the house?
>
> Your soil doesn't look as if it is clay, I am just down the road from
> you and we are entirely on clay. Was yours clay to begin with and
> what did you do to refine it?
>
> Judith
>
The house is built on an early version of the modern garden plot
developments. Many years ago the garden was part of the grounds of
Thornborough Hall and was very grand at one time. In the 1930s a local
family bought part of the hall grounds and built this house. They employed a
full time gardener and developed the garden quite a lot. Then 30 years ago
the house was bought by the Hospitaler association and used as a care home
for physically and mentally handicapped adults, they passed it on to the
local housing association who closed it down in 2004. Sadly during the
housing association ownership many features of the original gardens were
destroyed in laying motorway style wheelchair paths as in
http://www.twango.com/media/Muddymi...ke.10145?sort=5
and they only maintained areas accessed by these paths. We are now
resurrecting what we can of the original garden and adding our own features.
I think you must have missed an earlier reply of mine when you first asked
about my Mattishall email address. Yes I used to live in Mattishall but 2
1/2 years ago moved here to Leyburn, N Yorks.
Mike
| |
| judith.lea99@googlemail.com 2007-04-22, 9:25 am |
| On Apr 22, 9:44 am, "Muddymike" <MikeRog...@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
> <judith.le...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1177179200.381709.322540@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The house is built on an early version of the modern garden plot
> developments. Many years ago the garden was part of the grounds of
> Thornborough Hall and was very grand at one time. In the 1930s a local
> family bought part of the hall grounds and built this house. They employed a
> full time gardener and developed the garden quite a lot. Then 30 years ago
> the house was bought by the Hospitaler association and used as a care home
> for physically and mentally handicapped adults, they passed it on to the
> local housing association who closed it down in 2004. Sadly during the
> housing association ownership many features of the original gardens were
> destroyed in laying motorway style wheelchair paths as inhttp://www.twango.com/media/Muddymike.Garden/Muddymike.10145?sort=5
> and they only maintained areas accessed by these paths. We are now
> resurrecting what we can of the original garden and adding our own features.
>
> I think you must have missed an earlier reply of mine when you first asked
> about my Mattishall email address. Yes I used to live in Mattishall but 2
> 1/2 years ago moved here to Leyburn, N Yorks.
>
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I must have missed that Mike. Your garden and house look great and
can only get even more interesting as time goes on, well done.
| |
| Chris Potts 2007-04-22, 1:25 pm |
| Muddymike wrote:
> Inspired by the wonderful comments on my garden pictures I have uploaded a
> few more. Some showing the overgrown mess we took on two and a half years
> ago.
>
> Further to the Ivy Broomrape, I have discovered a virtual forest of the
> stuff, see first picture at http://www.twango.com/channel/Muddymike.Garden
>
> Must mow the lawns.
>
> Mike
>
>
Hello Mike
I don't think it is Ivy Broomrape! It is Common Toothwort (Lathraea
squamaria). Ivy Broomrape is taller with a much more open spike; it
flowers in late June/July. There is a good picture of Toothwort at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothwort. It flowers in April, so just
right.
All the best,
Chris Potts
| |
| Stewart Robert Hinsley 2007-04-22, 5:25 pm |
| In message <462B9DFA.5060902@orobanche.co.uk>, Chris Potts
<chrisjpotts@orobanche.co.uk> writes
>Muddymike wrote:
>Hello Mike
>
>I don't think it is Ivy Broomrape! It is Common Toothwort (Lathraea
>squamaria). Ivy Broomrape is taller with a much more open spike; it
>flowers in late June/July. There is a good picture of Toothwort at
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothwort. It flowers in April, so just
>right.
>
>All the best,
>
>Chris Potts
I hadn't considered Lathraea, as the plant didn't look at all like
lLathraea clandestina. However, Lathraea squamata is typically parasitic
on elm and hazel, rather than ivy. However it seems to occur on many
genera.
According to Stace, the key characters separating Lathraea and Orobanche
are
Lathraea: rhizomatous; flowers pedicellate (stalked); calyx with 4 equal
lobes;
Orobanche: not rhizomatous; flowers seesile (unstalked) except rarely
near the base of the inflorescence; calyx with 2-4(5) teeth arranged in
2 lateral lips.
Looking at the original photograph the calyx characters may be correct
for Lathraea. If Mike could check the details, and what plants other
than ivy are growing in the vicinity ...
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-22, 5:25 pm |
|
"Chris Potts" <chrisjpotts@orobanche.co.uk> wrote in message
news:462B9DFA.5060902@orobanche.co.uk...
> Muddymike wrote:
> Hello Mike
>
> I don't think it is Ivy Broomrape! It is Common Toothwort (Lathraea
> squamaria). Ivy Broomrape is taller with a much more open spike; it
> flowers in late June/July. There is a good picture of Toothwort at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothwort. It flowers in April, so just
> right.
>
> All the best,
>
> Chris Potts
Thanks Chris
Looking at the picture I think you are right. Toothwart, Broomrape what
names will they think up next?
Keep on digging.
Mike
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-22, 5:25 pm |
|
"Stewart Robert Hinsley" <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BsDnDVcRq6KGFwQv@meden.invalid...
> In message <462B9DFA.5060902@orobanche.co.uk>, Chris Potts
> <chrisjpotts@orobanche.co.uk> writes
>
> I hadn't considered Lathraea, as the plant didn't look at all like
> lLathraea clandestina. However, Lathraea squamata is typically parasitic
> on elm and hazel, rather than ivy. However it seems to occur on many
> genera.
>
> According to Stace, the key characters separating Lathraea and Orobanche
> are
>
> Lathraea: rhizomatous; flowers pedicellate (stalked); calyx with 4 equal
> lobes;
>
> Orobanche: not rhizomatous; flowers seesile (unstalked) except rarely near
> the base of the inflorescence; calyx with 2-4(5) teeth arranged in 2
> lateral lips.
>
> Looking at the original photograph the calyx characters may be correct for
> Lathraea. If Mike could check the details, and what plants other than ivy
> are growing in the vicinity ...
> --
> Stewart Robert Hinsley
Its quite crowded in there, plants include hazel certainly, laurel, yew,
privet, holly, and more that I am unable to name are also in quite close
proximity.
Mike
| |
| Des Higgins 2007-04-22, 5:25 pm |
|
"Stewart Robert Hinsley" <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BsDnDVcRq6KGFwQv@meden.invalid...
> In message <462B9DFA.5060902@orobanche.co.uk>, Chris Potts
> <chrisjpotts@orobanche.co.uk> writes
>
> I hadn't considered Lathraea, as the plant didn't look at all like
> lLathraea clandestina. However, Lathraea squamata is typically parasitic
> on elm and hazel, rather than ivy. However it seems to occur on many
> genera.
>
> According to Stace, the key characters separating Lathraea and Orobanche
> are
>
> Lathraea: rhizomatous; flowers pedicellate (stalked); calyx with 4 equal
> lobes;
>
> Orobanche: not rhizomatous; flowers seesile (unstalked) except rarely near
> the base of the inflorescence; calyx with 2-4(5) teeth arranged in 2
> lateral lips.
>
> Looking at the original photograph the calyx characters may be correct for
> Lathraea. If Mike could check the details, and what plants other than ivy
> are growing in the vicinity ...
I always found the keys for Orobranche and relatives to be hard going,
especially seeing as most of them have very colourful flowers. That plant
looks like toothwort/Lathraea squamaria alright. It is bright pink all over
in mid spring. L.clandestina (i think it is introduced) is a more lurid
colour and is smaller from what I can remember. L.squamaria is described as
widespread and is native but I have only seen it a handful of times, in
Ireland I cannot remember what it was growing on.
> --
> Stewart Robert Hinsley
| |
| Des Higgins 2007-04-22, 5:25 pm |
|
"Muddymike" <MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk> wrote in message
news:uM6dnWM4Qsj4MbbbRVnyvgA@brightview.com...
>
> "Chris Potts" <chrisjpotts@orobanche.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:462B9DFA.5060902@orobanche.co.uk...
>
> Thanks Chris
>
> Looking at the picture I think you are right. Toothwart, Broomrape what
Wort seems to be some generic name for herb or maybe medicinal plant or
maybe just plant. Toothwort was conceivably thought of as something to help
yer teeth. Broomrape, I think, just meant molesting broom.
> names will they think up next?
>
> Keep on digging.
>
> Mike
>
>
| |
| La Puce 2007-04-22, 5:25 pm |
| On 22 Apr, 19:38, "Muddymike" <MikeRog...@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
> Looking at the picture I think you are right. Toothwart, Broomrape what
> names will they think up next?
:o)) Look at me this morning nor recognising our honesty, honestly!
That wonderful pear tree espalier you have, what pear is it?
| |
| Stewart Robert Hinsley 2007-04-22, 8:25 pm |
| In message <lfednZ7rYd1VJ7bbRVnyjwA@brightview.com>, Muddymike
<MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk> writes
>
>"Stewart Robert Hinsley" <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:BsDnDVcRq6KGFwQv@meden.invalid...
>
>Its quite crowded in there, plants include hazel certainly, laurel, yew,
>privet, holly, and more that I am unable to name are also in quite close
>proximity.
>
>Mike
>
>
Ah well, it seems quite likely that it's Lathraea squamaria parasitising
hazel, rather than Orobranche hederae parasitising ivy. I should have
thought to ask the question what the ivy was growing over.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
| |
| John McMillan 2007-04-24, 9:25 am |
| In article <lfednZ7rYd1VJ7bbRVnyjwA@brightview.com>,
"Muddymike" <MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
> "Stewart Robert Hinsley" <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:BsDnDVcRq6KGFwQv@meden.invalid...
>
> Its quite crowded in there, plants include hazel certainly, laurel, yew,
> privet, holly, and more that I am unable to name are also in quite close
> proximity.
>
> Mike
Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape. At this time of year there are no
signs of the flower spikes on my colonies. They come in August or so.
Does your presumed Lathrea Squamata set seed? If so I wouldn't mind
some - which I could swap for an option on my Orobanche hederae harvest
in September.
john
| |
| La Puce 2007-04-24, 9:25 am |
| On 24 Apr, 11:29, John McMillan <j.e.mcmil...@sheffielddot.acdot.uk>
wrote:
> Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape.
On the other thread, the original one Muddymike sent, I had marked it
as Orobanche crenata - don't you think? At all? So similar, same
flowers, height etc. But not the hederae.
| |
| Des Higgins 2007-04-24, 9:25 am |
|
"La Puce" <helene@rudlin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1177415206.480925.154040@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On 24 Apr, 11:29, John McMillan <j.e.mcmil...@sheffielddot.acdot.uk>
> wrote:
>
> On the other thread, the original one Muddymike sent, I had marked it
> as Orobanche crenata - don't you think? At all? So similar, same
> flowers, height etc. But not the hederae.
>
It is Lathraea squamaria or common toothwort.
I know this because I have seen it and it looks exactly like that plant and
is widespread in the wild and I know it grows in Ireland and the UK and
paristises trees and comes into flower at this time of year.
O.crenata is pink but that is just going on photographs in google and that
is the only resemblance. Does it even grow in the UK or flower at this time
of year? It is normally a parasite of legumes in the med.
| |
|
| On 24/4/07 13:10, in article 462df3ab$0$4208$ba620d2c@reader.news.heanet.ie,
"Des Higgins" <dazzhiggins@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "La Puce" <helene@rudlin.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1177415206.480925.154040@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> It is Lathraea squamaria or common toothwort.
> I know this because I have seen it and it looks exactly like that plant and
> is widespread in the wild and I know it grows in Ireland and the UK and
> paristises trees and comes into flower at this time of year.
> O.crenata is pink but that is just going on photographs in google and that
> is the only resemblance. Does it even grow in the UK or flower at this time
> of year? It is normally a parasite of legumes in the med.
>
According to the post code plant database, the following Orobanches grow in
Britain. O. crenata is not among them. Lathraea squamaria is.
Orobanche alba
Orobanche artemisiae-campestris
Orobanche caryophyllacea
Orobanche elatior
Orobanche hederae
Orobanche minor
Orobanche purpurea
Orobanche rapum-genistae
Orobanche reticulata
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/fff/checklist-english-plants.html
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
| Stewart Robert Hinsley 2007-04-24, 9:25 am |
| In message <462df3ab$0$4208$ba620d2c@reader.news.heanet.ie>, Des Higgins
<dazzhiggins@hotmail.com> writes
>
>"La Puce" <helene@rudlin.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1177415206.480925.154040@u32g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>It is Lathraea squamaria or common toothwort.
>I know this because I have seen it and it looks exactly like that plant and
>is widespread in the wild and I know it grows in Ireland and the UK and
>paristises trees and comes into flower at this time of year.
>O.crenata is pink but that is just going on photographs in google and that
>is the only resemblance. Does it even grow in the UK or flower at this time
>of year? It is normally a parasite of legumes in the med.
>
Stace says that Orobanche crenata was "naturalised and casual in 1 part
of S. Essex since 1950, perhaps now extinct".
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
| |
| Des Higgins 2007-04-25, 9:25 am |
|
"Sacha" <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:C253BAB4.4A3F9%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk...
> Orobanche rapum-genistae
This one presumably grows on Broom and mirrors the common english name of
Broomrape (I know nothing about the plant; I am just guessing from the
name).
Des
| |
| Des Higgins 2007-04-25, 9:25 am |
|
"Stewart Robert Hinsley" <{$news$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8WbINTj0mfLGFwMj@meden.invalid...
> In message <462df3ab$0$4208$ba620d2c@reader.news.heanet.ie>, Des Higgins
> <dazzhiggins@hotmail.com> writes
> Stace says that Orobanche crenata was "naturalised and casual in 1 part of
> S. Essex since 1950, perhaps now extinct".
It looks like a cool plant. Googling around says it is quite a weed and
even a source of ecomic loss in legume crops in its normal range.
In this part of the world, Orobanches seem to be a bit rare; maybe they are
at the edge of their range and it is too cold for them to really do well.
I have only ever seem Lathraea a few times and O. hederae is the commonest
here but I tend to only see it a couple of times a year.
O.rapum-genistae (I know nothing about it but just did a quick google) looks
like a great big pink thing; hard to miss if it was groing on yer broom or
gorse.
Des
> --
> Stewart Robert Hinsley
| |
| Stewart Robert Hinsley 2007-04-25, 9:25 am |
| In message <462f2833$0$4201$ba620d2c@reader.news.heanet.ie>, Des Higgins
<dazzhiggins@hotmail.com> writes
>
>"Sacha" <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:C253BAB4.4A3F9%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk...
>
>
>
>This one presumably grows on Broom and mirrors the common english name of
>Broomrape (I know nothing about the plant; I am just guessing from the
>name).
>
>Des
>
>
"various woody Fabaceae" - so perhaps it might also be found on gorse
and greenweed.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-25, 9:25 am |
|
"La Puce" <helene@rudlin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1177278132.729790.56160@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On 22 Apr, 19:38, "Muddymike" <MikeRog...@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
>
> :o)) Look at me this morning nor recognising our honesty, honestly!
>
> That wonderful pear tree espalier you have, what pear is it?
Its a pear ok, you can eat them, don't ask me hard questions:-)
Sorry I know as much about pears as I do shrubs, it came as part of the
house.
Mike
| |
|
| On 25/4/07 11:06, in article 462f2833$0$4201$ba620d2c@reader.news.heanet.ie,
"Des Higgins" <dazzhiggins@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Sacha" <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:C253BAB4.4A3F9%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk...
>
>
>
> This one presumably grows on Broom and mirrors the common english name of
> Broomrape (I know nothing about the plant; I am just guessing from the
> name).
>
> Des
>
>
Sounds like a safe bet, though.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-25, 5:25 pm |
|
"John McMillan" <j.e.mcmillan@sheffielddot.acdot.uk> wrote in message
news:j.e.mcmillan-DCB009.11295824042007@no-reverse-defined.ja.net...
> In article <lfednZ7rYd1VJ7bbRVnyjwA@brightview.com>,
> "Muddymike" <MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Its definitely not Ivy Broomrape. At this time of year there are no
> signs of the flower spikes on my colonies. They come in August or so.
> Does your presumed Lathrea Squamata set seed? If so I wouldn't mind
> some - which I could swap for an option on my Orobanche hederae harvest
> in September.
>
> john
The area was covered in Ivy until recently when I cleared it all. As to
whether it sets seeds, I have no idea but you are welcome to some if it
does. How do I tell?
Mike
| |
| John McMillan 2007-04-26, 9:25 am |
|
>
> The area was covered in Ivy until recently when I cleared it all. As to
> whether it sets seeds, I have no idea but you are welcome to some if it
> does. How do I tell?
>
> Mike
Hmm, I'm not sure. In the case of Lathraea Clandestina, the flowers
fade from purple to brown and papery, but the seed case doesn't really
dry very much. At some point, when the seed is ripe, it opens, often
explosively and can throw the seed some metres. How it ever reaches
the next colonizable host without human intervention, I don't know.
maybe thats why it rare.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/WhatsOn/garde...ehallpom04apr.a
sp
The seed should be planted when fresh apparently. I've tried this twice,
once two and three years ago with no result as yet. However, it can
take up to ten years.
I guess Lathraea Squamaria is similar? So wait for the flowers to die
back a bit, then poke or squeeze them to see if seed jump out.
Maybe just pick a whole flower spike or two? If it looks like there
is any chance of seed, e-mail me and I'll give you my postal address.
I'll plant it and then wait another ten years. Hey, isn't horticulture
exciting.
The Orobanche Hederae seeds
are much more well behaved, being about 0.5mm black spherical.
When the flowers have died down you can just pick the stems and shake
them into paper bags. It clearly doesn't mind dry storage.
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