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Home > Archive > UK gardening > April 2007 > Post and rail
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| Janet Tweedy 2007-04-21, 8:25 pm |
| Not being a madly expert DIYer can anyone tell me the best way to put in
post and rail fencing so I can train clematis and possibly Chaenemole
along the length. It has to be in two 6 foot lengths or thereabouts with
a gap in the middle so I can access the path from the lawn.
I know how to put in 4x4 stuff using metposts but there aren't any round
alternatives to metposts.
Do I dig a hole first and then shove the post in or backfill with bits
of stone etc like the post for the washing line? Posts will be about 6
foot above the ground, so how much needs to be below?
Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
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| On 22/4/07 00:07, in article BDOAwDENlpKGFwCQ@ukonline.co.uk, "Janet Tweedy"
<jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Not being a madly expert DIYer can anyone tell me the best way to put in
> post and rail fencing so I can train clematis and possibly Chaenemole
> along the length. It has to be in two 6 foot lengths or thereabouts with
> a gap in the middle so I can access the path from the lawn.
>
> I know how to put in 4x4 stuff using metposts but there aren't any round
> alternatives to metposts.
>
> Do I dig a hole first and then shove the post in or backfill with bits
> of stone etc like the post for the washing line? Posts will be about 6
> foot above the ground, so how much needs to be below?
>
Our post 'n rope set up has round (chamfered) posts about 8' above the
ground and 2' below and they're cemented in. You need a spirit level to
ensure you get them absolutely straight. I think Matthew backfilled with
stone, as you say and then poured the cement over that. If I can get more
or different detail from him later, I will. I'll also take a photo and
email it to you.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
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"Janet Tweedy" <jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BDOAwDENlpKGFwCQ@ukonline.co.uk...
> Not being a madly expert DIYer can anyone tell me the best way to put in
> post and rail fencing so I can train clematis and possibly Chaenemole
> along the length. It has to be in two 6 foot lengths or thereabouts with a
> gap in the middle so I can access the path from the lawn.
>
> I know how to put in 4x4 stuff using metposts but there aren't any round
> alternatives to metposts.
>
> Do I dig a hole first and then shove the post in or backfill with bits of
> stone etc like the post for the washing line? Posts will be about 6 foot
> above the ground, so how much needs to be below?
1 Treat timber 18" from bottom with creosote or the like and allow to
dry.
2 Dig 18" deep hole a spade size wide square hole for each post, add a
few pebbles to bottom.
3 Put post in hole and lightly nail a piece of timber to each side at
around 45 degrees to support in upright position, like a TeePee shape.
4 Using 6 to 1 ballast/cement mix, mix up to a stiff mix (Like a cake
mix) and pour into hole leaving 2" from top local ground area level. Cover
with polythene if rain expected.
5 Wait to set (2/3 days)
6 Carefully remove the support timbers and backfill over top of cement
bases with sieved soil.
7 Seed area with grass seed or wait for it to infiltrate.
Voila!
When fixing the rails to the posts mark the rails and drill through using a
drill slightly larger that the screw used to fix it onto the post and screw
it on. That way if you need to take it apart for any reason it will be
easier and allow it to be put back up again.
For a couple of hundred metres you'd use a post ramming attachment on a
tractor, loads of nails, 2 men and lots of Coffee or Tea....Plus bacon
butties ;-)
| |
| CWatters 2007-04-22, 9:25 am |
|
"Janet Tweedy" <jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BDOAwDENlpKGFwCQ@ukonline.co.uk...
> Not being a madly expert DIYer can anyone tell me the best way to put in
> post and rail fencing so I can train clematis and possibly Chaenemole
> along the length. It has to be in two 6 foot lengths or thereabouts with
> a gap in the middle so I can access the path from the lawn.
>
> I know how to put in 4x4 stuff using metposts but there aren't any round
> alternatives to metposts.
>
> Do I dig a hole first and then shove the post in or backfill with bits
> of stone etc like the post for the washing line? Posts will be about 6
> foot above the ground, so how much needs to be below?
I recently hired a petrol powered post hole boring machine to make holes for
some 3" diameter posts supporting new trees. It made short work of the holes
but was quite a bit of a beast to use (we have clay soil with stones). You
drill down a bit then lift it out and clean off the soil. Don't just let it
drill itself all the way in or you won't be able to lift it out. There is no
reverse gear. Might be better to go for the "two man" version rather than
the "one man" that I had - easier to pull out. They come with a selection of
drill bits but you want one that's a close match to diameter as your posts
so no back fill. I'd go down around 3 foot. I think I'd put in three posts
per 6 foot length.
http://www.aplant.com/catalogue.aspx?id1=111016
http://www.aplant.com/catalogue.aspx?id1=111018
Most hire places have a day rate or a special rate for weekends.
If you dig by hand back fill with gravel rather than soil. You could use
concrete but it's harder to get them out again in the future. If using
concrete slightly over fill and slope the top so water runs away from the
post.
| |
| Dave Hill 2007-04-22, 9:25 am |
| On 22 Apr, 10:04, "R" <notacha...@there.com> wrote:
> "Janet Tweedy" <j...@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:BDOAwDENlpKGFwCQ@ukonline.co.uk...
>
>
>
>
> 1 Treat timber 18" from bottom with creosote or the like and allow to
> dry.
> 2 Dig 18" deep hole a spade size wide square hole for each post, add a
> few pebbles to bottom.
> 3 Put post in hole and lightly nail a piece of timber to each side at
> around 45 degrees to support in upright position, like a TeePee shape.
> 4 Using 6 to 1 ballast/cement mix, mix up to a stiff mix (Like a cake
> mix) and pour into hole leaving 2" from top local ground area level. Cover
> with polythene if rain expected.
> 5 Wait to set (2/3 days)
> 6 Carefully remove the support timbers and backfill over top of cement
> bases with sieved soil.
> 7 Seed area with grass seed or wait for it to infiltrate.
> Voila!
>
> When fixing the rails to the posts mark the rails and drill through using a
> drill slightly larger that the screw used to fix it onto the post and screw
> it on. That way if you need to take it apart for any reason it will be
> easier and allow it to be put back up again.
>
> For a couple of hundred metres you'd use a post ramming attachment on a
> tractor, loads of nails, 2 men and lots of Coffee or Tea....Plus bacon
> butties ;-)
Good advice BUT if you are going to put the post 18 inches into the
ground then the preservative needs to be on at least 24 inches of
post. Posts almost always rot at ground level and not underground
where the wet and the air can work together.
If the frames are only going to be 6ft wide then why not make them up
before fixing the posts in the ground, then put up as one piece.
David Hill
Abacus Nurseries
| |
| Janet Tweedy 2007-04-22, 9:25 am |
| In article <C250C699.4A0BF%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
<sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>Our post 'n rope set up has round (chamfered) posts about 8' above the
>ground and 2' below and they're cemented in. You need a spirit level to
>ensure you get them absolutely straight. I think Matthew backfilled with
>stone, as you say and then poured the cement over that. If I can get more
>or different detail from him later, I will. I'll also take a photo and
>email it to you.
>
Thanks Sacha, don't want to use 2x2 or similar as it looks too perfect
for the garden. Wanted something that will 'disappear' I like the hazel
rails in appearance so shall get long enough ones for the actual
uprights.
janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
| |
| Janet Tweedy 2007-04-22, 9:25 am |
| In article <590moeF2i4ucqU1@mid.individual.net>, R
<notachance@there.com> writes
>
>
>1 Treat timber 18" from bottom with creosote or the like and allow to
>dry.
>2 Dig 18" deep hole a spade size wide square hole for each post, add a
>few pebbles to bottom.
>3 Put post in hole and lightly nail a piece of timber to each side at
>around 45 degrees to support in upright position, like a TeePee shape.
>4 Using 6 to 1 ballast/cement mix, mix up to a stiff mix (Like a cake
>mix) and pour into hole leaving 2" from top local ground area level. Cover
>with polythene if rain expected.
>5 Wait to set (2/3 days)
>6 Carefully remove the support timbers and backfill over top of cement
>bases with sieved soil.
>7 Seed area with grass seed or wait for it to infiltrate.
>Voila!
>
>When fixing the rails to the posts mark the rails and drill through using a
>drill slightly larger that the screw used to fix it onto the post and screw
>it on. That way if you need to take it apart for any reason it will be
>easier and allow it to be put back up again.
Thanks, I'll print this out!
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
| |
| Janet Tweedy 2007-04-22, 9:25 am |
| In article <1177238620.223140.165460@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Dave
Hill <david@abacus-nurseries.co.uk> writes
>If the frames are only going to be 6ft wide then why not make them up
>before fixing the posts in the ground, then put up as one piece.
>David Hill
>Abacus Nurseries
>
Oh good idea, it might make them straighter in the end!
Thanks David
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk
| |
|
| On 22/4/07 13:09, in article uO1bDtAgB1KGFwGQ@ukonline.co.uk, "Janet Tweedy"
<jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <C250C699.4A0BF%sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk>, Sacha
> <sacha@gardenweeds506.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>
>
>
> Thanks Sacha, don't want to use 2x2 or similar as it looks too perfect
> for the garden. Wanted something that will 'disappear' I like the hazel
> rails in appearance so shall get long enough ones for the actual
> uprights.
>
> janet
This might be of interest to you, Janet. It's bang up to date:
http://www.traditionalropecompany.co.uk/
This is the person we got our rope from and he made us some 'scrambling net'
trellis, too. Not only does it look attractive, it's ideal for a painted
wall because it's attached by hooks, so that when it comes to repainting we
can carefully unhook it and 'peel' it back with plants attached. Trellis is
too unyielding for that to be easily done.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)
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"CWatters" <colin.watters@turnersNOSPAMoak.plus.com> wrote in message
news:462b2b24$0$8749$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "Janet Tweedy" <jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:BDOAwDENlpKGFwCQ@ukonline.co.uk...
>
> I recently hired a petrol powered post hole boring machine to make holes
> for
> some 3" diameter posts supporting new trees. It made short work of the
> holes
> but was quite a bit of a beast to use (we have clay soil with stones).
> You
> drill down a bit then lift it out and clean off the soil. Don't just let
> it
> drill itself all the way in or you won't be able to lift it out. There is
> no
> reverse gear. Might be better to go for the "two man" version rather than
> the "one man" that I had - easier to pull out. They come with a selection
> of
> drill bits but you want one that's a close match to diameter as your posts
> so no back fill. I'd go down around 3 foot. I think I'd put in three posts
> per 6 foot length.
>
> http://www.aplant.com/catalogue.aspx?id1=111016
>
> http://www.aplant.com/catalogue.aspx?id1=111018
>
> Most hire places have a day rate or a special rate for weekends.
>
> If you dig by hand back fill with gravel rather than soil. You could use
> concrete but it's harder to get them out again in the future. If using
> concrete slightly over fill and slope the top so water runs away from the
> post.
For 4 posts that might be a little excessive, but the 2 man option is always
the better idea.
Having put in hundreds of posts with a 2 man machine (After unsuccessfully
using a one man machine) it's slightly quicker and less tiring.
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-22, 1:25 pm |
|
"CWatters" <colin.watters@turnersNOSPAMoak.plus.com> wrote in message
news:462b2b24$0$8749$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "Janet Tweedy" <jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:BDOAwDENlpKGFwCQ@ukonline.co.uk...
>
> I recently hired a petrol powered post hole boring machine to make holes
> for
> some 3" diameter posts supporting new trees. It made short work of the
> holes
> but was quite a bit of a beast to use (we have clay soil with stones).
I borrowed one of these about 20 years ago to put up 100yards of fence at
the old place. First hole fine, second a bit tough going, on the third the
drill jammed on a rock about a foot down. We could not hold the machine and
had to let go. It continued twirling round and round with the drill jammed
firmly in the ground acting as an anchor. What to do? Thing going round so
fast we could not really see let alone reach the stop switch or throttle
control for fear of having a hand ripped off, almost full tank of petrol. In
the end my mate thwacked the spark plug cap (it was luckily the only easily
identifiable part as it stuck out the side) with a hammer as it spun past,
after a couple of goes he smashed the plug and cap. That stopped it.
I returned it to the owner and hired a newer one with a safety bar hand
grip. Let go of this one and the engine stops.
Mike
| |
| Chris Hogg 2007-04-22, 1:25 pm |
| On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 00:07:57 +0100, Janet Tweedy
<jan@lancedal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Not being a madly expert DIYer can anyone tell me the best way to put in
>post and rail fencing so I can train clematis and possibly Chaenemole
>along the length. It has to be in two 6 foot lengths or thereabouts with
>a gap in the middle so I can access the path from the lawn.
>
>I know how to put in 4x4 stuff using metposts but there aren't any round
>alternatives to metposts.
>
>Do I dig a hole first and then shove the post in or backfill with bits
>of stone etc like the post for the washing line? Posts will be about 6
>foot above the ground, so how much needs to be below?
>
>
>Janet
For solid fencing, I believe the ROT is 1ft below ground for every 2ft
above, but I guess for a more open structure you can get away with
less depth. When I did our wind-break fencing I dug holes down to the
length of my arm-plus-trowel when lying flat on the ground, IYSWIM.
This keeps them fairly narrow. An empty tin-can helps in scooping out
the soil. I put a flat stone in the bottom, put the post in place
supported vertically by a couple of temporary props driven into the
ground at angles, and filled around the post with rapid-setting
post-hole mix, available from DIY sheds. You pour it in dry, then
water it afterwards. It goes off in ten minutes or so, full strength
after about 24hrs IIRC.
If you can screw the rails to the posts (electric screwdriver) it
doesn't shake them nearly so much as hammering in nails.
--
Chris
E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
| |
| CWatters 2007-04-22, 8:25 pm |
|
"Muddymike" <MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk> wrote in message
news:W8adnVp0Rr21DbbbnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@brightview.com...
> I borrowed one of these about 20 years ago to put up 100yards of fence at
> the old place. First hole fine, second a bit tough going, on the third the
> drill jammed on a rock about a foot down. We could not hold the machine
and
> had to let go. It continued twirling round and round with the drill jammed
> firmly in the ground acting as an anchor. What to do? Thing going round so
> fast we could not really see let alone reach the stop switch or throttle
> control for fear of having a hand ripped off, almost full tank of petrol.
In
> the end my mate thwacked the spark plug cap (it was luckily the only
easily
> identifiable part as it stuck out the side) with a hammer as it spun past,
> after a couple of goes he smashed the plug and cap. That stopped it.
The one I hired had a cut off lever. As soon as the body starts to rotate
the lever "hits" your body/legs and the clutch releases. No problem.
| |
| Muddymike 2007-04-25, 1:25 pm |
|
"CWatters" <colin.watters@turnersNOSPAMoak.plus.com> wrote in message
news:462be2d1$0$8752$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "Muddymike" <MikeRogers@mattishall.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:W8adnVp0Rr21DbbbnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@brightview.com...
> and
> In
> easily
>
> The one I hired had a cut off lever. As soon as the body starts to rotate
> the lever "hits" your body/legs and the clutch releases. No problem
Good, the one I hired had a safety bar clutch which you had to hold in all
the time. As soon as you let go it stopped, much safer.
Mike
>
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