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Home > Archive > UK gardening > February 2008 > Soil Acidity
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| esplanadetenby@googlemail.com 2008-02-22, 1:25 pm |
| Having just tested my allotment soil, it was coming out at a ph of
about 8+, however I didn't have distilled water to hand so possibly
the local water skewed the true reading, is this likely, the water on
it's own was fairly alkaline?.
Anyhow, should it be required, what do you add to the soil to make it
more acidic?
Many thanks
Peter
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| ®óñ© © ²°¹°-°² 2008-02-22, 1:25 pm |
| On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:40:09 -0800 (PST),
esplanadetenby@googlemail.com wrote and included this (or some of
this):
>Having just tested my allotment soil, it was coming out at a ph of
>about 8+, however I didn't have distilled water to hand so possibly
>the local water skewed the true reading, is this likely, the water on
>it's own was fairly alkaline?.
>Anyhow, should it be required, what do you add to the soil to make it
>more acidic?
Anne Robinson?
--
®óñ© © ²°¹°-°²
| |
| Chris Hogg 2008-02-22, 1:25 pm |
| On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:40:09 -0800 (PST),
esplanadetenby@googlemail.com wrote:
>Having just tested my allotment soil, it was coming out at a ph of
>about 8+, however I didn't have distilled water to hand so possibly
>the local water skewed the true reading, is this likely, the water on
>it's own was fairly alkaline?.
>Anyhow, should it be required, what do you add to the soil to make it
>more acidic?
>
>Many thanks
>
>Peter
Melted ice from the fridge or freezer is a fair substitute for
distilled water when measuring soil pH.
But if you have a high pH on your allotment, there's not really much
you can do about it. This is a bulk property governed in the main by
the underlying soil. Are you on chalk or greensand, for example? Short
of digging the whole lot up and replacing it with more-acid stuff,
there's not a lot you can do. Digging in loads of acid compost or peat
may make a small difference, but not a lot and it takes years. Making
an acid soil alkaline is generally much easier.
Anyway, why would you want to change it. I'm not a veg grower, but
I've always understood they grow better in alkaline soil, with fewer
problems with disease.
--
Chris
Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales
E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
| |
| Charlie Pridham 2008-02-23, 9:27 am |
| In article <dd1cac64-ff77-4a69-aa26-
44993f3b241b@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com>, esplanadetenby@googlemail.com
says...
> Having just tested my allotment soil, it was coming out at a ph of
> about 8+, however I didn't have distilled water to hand so possibly
> the local water skewed the true reading, is this likely, the water on
> it's own was fairly alkaline?.
> Anyhow, should it be required, what do you add to the soil to make it
> more acidic?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Peter
>
Yes the water has a big effect, and I thought for Veggies that alkaline
soil was better? anyway you can alter soil to make it more alkaline (add
lime) but it is next to impossible to go the other way. although lots of
organic matter may make it slightly more acid
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea
| |
| esplanadetenby@googlemail.com 2008-02-23, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 23, 9:52=EF=BF=BDam, Charlie Pridham <char...@roselandhouse.co.uk>
wrote:
> In article <dd1cac64-ff77-4a69-aa26-
> 44993f3b2...@64g2000hsw.googlegroups.com>, esplanadete...@googlemail.com
> says...> Having just tested my allotment soil, it was coming out at a ph o=
f
>
>
>
> Yes the water has a big effect, and I thought for Veggies that alkaline
> soil was better? anyway you can alter soil to make it more alkaline (add
> lime) but it is next to impossible to go the other way. although lots of
> organic matter may make it slightly more acid
> --
> Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwallwww.roselandhouse.co.uk
> Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
> Lapageria rosea
I think some veg, namely potatoes, prefer a more acidic soil, but I'm
not concerned, I'll be planting a wide variety of veg and see what
happens. I was curious as much as anything, mainly because the few
books I have, don't say anything at all about how to make the soil
more acidic, the replies here explain why.
Many thanks
Peter
| |
| Steve Wolstenholme 2008-02-23, 1:25 pm |
| On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:40:09 -0800 (PST),
esplanadetenby@googlemail.com wrote:
>Having just tested my allotment soil, it was coming out at a ph of
>about 8+, however I didn't have distilled water to hand so possibly
>the local water skewed the true reading, is this likely, the water on
>it's own was fairly alkaline?.
>Anyhow, should it be required, what do you add to the soil to make it
>more acidic?
>
>Many thanks
>
>Peter
Peter,
You can make soil more acid with an annual dose of Sequestrine of
Iron.
The easiest way to make it more acid is to only use rain water and
just wait for a few years!
Steve
--
Stephen Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software Ltd
EasyNN-plus. Build Neural Networks. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast the Future. http://www.swingnn.com
| |
| Stuart Noble 2008-02-23, 1:25 pm |
| Steve Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:40:09 -0800 (PST),
> esplanadetenby@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> You can make soil more acid with an annual dose of Sequestrine of
> Iron.
>
> The easiest way to make it more acid is to only use rain water and
> just wait for a few years!
>
> Steve
>
> http://www.rhs.org.uk/Learning/Rese...cts/acid_pH.htm
| |
| misterroy 2008-02-23, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 23, 4:47=C2=A0pm, esplanadete...@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Feb 23, 9:52=EF=BF=BDam, Charlie Pridham <char...@roselandhouse.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
[color=darkred]
of[color=darkred]
>
>
>
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>
> I think some veg, namely potatoes, prefer a more acidic soil, but I'm
> not concerned, I'll be planting a wide variety of veg and see what
> happens. I was curious as much as anything, mainly because the few
> books I have, don't say anything at all about how to make the soil
> more acidic, the replies here explain why.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Peter
the two suggestions I was given, alkali sandy soil, were loads of
manure, or potassium sulphate, the sulphate will hang about in another
salt while the potassium leeches away.
| |
| Charlie Pridham 2008-02-24, 3:25 am |
| In article <2un0s3l29o57rbac1c068jabodrcquq97q@4ax.com>,
steve@tropheus.demon.co.uk says...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:40:09 -0800 (PST),
> esplanadetenby@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> You can make soil more acid with an annual dose of Sequestrine of
> Iron.
>
> Steve
>
>
That certainly helps with some acid loving shrubs and trees but it does
not make the soil more acid and only benifits those plants which have
trouble getting enough iron on alkaline soils, and as anyone who has
tried will tell you on truly acid soils its an up hill struggle and the
plants never do that well. If you realy want acid soil - Move!
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea
| |
| Chris Hogg 2008-02-24, 9:25 am |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:06:04 +0000, Steve Wolstenholme
<steve@tropheus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Peter,
>
>You can make soil more acid with an annual dose of Sequestrine of
>Iron.
Sequestrine doesn't have much effect on soil acidity as such. But it
does supply trace elements that aren't available up in an alkaline
one.
>The easiest way to make it more acid is to only use rain water and
>just wait for a few years!
>
Bear in mind that it's been raining on chalky soils for millions of
years and they're still alkaline. However, I'll grant you that if it
was an acid soil to start with, and someone's just limed it heavily
for veg growing, as may well be the case on an allotment, then it will
slowly revert to it's former acid state given time as the lime leaches
out.
--
Chris
Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales
E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
| |
| Chris Hogg 2008-02-24, 9:25 am |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:17:34 GMT, Stuart Noble
<stuart_nobleNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
>
>
I note that the starting pH of the soil in this RHS trial was 6.5,
which isn't even alkaline in my book, but weakly acidic. Such
experiments would be very much less successful on chalky soil with a
pH of around 8, which is probably why they didn't use it.
--
Chris
Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales
E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
| |
| Chris Hogg 2008-02-24, 9:25 am |
| On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:53:07 -0800 (PST), misterroy
<rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>the two suggestions I was given, alkali sandy soil, were loads of
>manure, or potassium sulphate, the sulphate will hang about in another
>salt while the potassium leeches away.
The manure I can understand, but it's effect would be slow and it
would require prolonged application.
But I'm struggling to see why potassium sulphate should have any
effect at all even on neutral soils, let alone chalky ones where you'd
need to add so much potassium sulphate that the soil would be unfit
for cultivation, even assuming it was capable of working as you say.
But I'm sceptical about the chemistry of your explanation.
I suppose the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Did you try
either suggestion, and if so, what happened?
--
Chris
Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales
E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
| |
| Jeff Layman 2008-02-24, 9:25 am |
| Steve Wolstenholme wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:40:09 -0800 (PST),
> esplanadetenby@googlemail.com wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
>
> You can make soil more acid with an annual dose of Sequestrine of
> Iron.
Iron sequestrene has no effect on soil acidity. It is simply a soluble form
of iron which can be taken up by plants in less than ideal (ie alkaline)
conditions. See the link in Stuart Noble's post for things which can
acidify soil.
>
> The easiest way to make it more acid is to only use rain water and
> just wait for a few years!
>
It's also the cheapest!
--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)
| |
| Steve Wolstenholme 2008-02-24, 9:25 am |
| On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:21:11 -0000, "Jeff Layman"
<jmlayman@thetapetcp.co.uk> wrote:
>Steve Wolstenholme wrote:
>
>Iron sequestrene has no effect on soil acidity. It is simply a soluble form
>of iron which can be taken up by plants in less than ideal (ie alkaline)
>conditions. See the link in Stuart Noble's post for things which can
>acidify soil.
>
I know it doesn't have any direct effect on soil acidity but the plant
growth that it helps seems to have an effect. I have a big Camellia
that was having trouble in the slightly alkaline soil. A regular dose
of iron sequestrene improved the growth. The soil is now slightly
acid. It may be just that the alkaline base has been washed out by
rain but many other parts of the garden are still alkaline.
Steve
| |
|
| "Jeff Layman" <jmlayman@thetapetcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> Steve Wolstenholme wrote:
[color=darkred]
>
> Iron sequestrene has no effect on soil acidity. It is simply a soluble
> form of iron which can be taken up by plants in less than ideal (ie
> alkaline) conditions. See the link in Stuart Noble's post for things
> which can acidify soil.
This situation has recently been covered in the TV show 'Gardening
Australia'. The specific situation was that very alkaline water was causing
problems in a garden. The show had previously visited the garden and the
roses were getting scorched leaf margins as a direct result of the
alkalinity. Water used on the garden came from a bore and had a pH of 8.5.
Apparently spreading Sulphur in all areas of the garden fixed the problem
(this is a big garden).
http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s2169781.htm
| |
| misterroy 2008-02-24, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 24, 10:59=A0am, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:53:07 -0800 (PST), misterroy
>
> <rgdavid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The manure I can understand, but it's effect would be slow and it
> would require prolonged application.
>
> But I'm struggling to see why potassium sulphate should have any
> effect at all even on neutral soils, let alone chalky ones where you'd
> need to add so much potassium sulphate that the soil would be unfit
> for cultivation, even assuming it was capable of working as you say.
> But I'm sceptical about the chemistry of your explanation.
>
> I suppose the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Did you try
> either suggestion, and if so, what happened?
>
> --
>
> Chris
>
> Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
> Mild, but very exposed to salt gales
>
> E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
Hi, I have tried neither yet, only discovered my alkalinity a month
ago, I am going the manure root though. I'm on a sandy soil with large
amount of shells in it so my calcium content is a bit more limited
than a chalk soil.
| |
| Chris Hogg 2008-02-24, 5:25 pm |
| On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:20:18 -0800 (PST), misterroy
<rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 24, 10:59_am, Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>Hi, I have tried neither yet, only discovered my alkalinity a month
>ago, I am going the manure root though. I'm on a sandy soil with large
>amount of shells in it so my calcium content is a bit more limited
>than a chalk soil.
The pH will still be high though. As long as there's any form of
calcium carbonate remaining in the soil, whether shells or chalk or
limestone, it's pH will be high.
--
Chris
Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales
E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net
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