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| Author |
Blu-ray discs sales figures are higher then HD DVD discs this year
|
|
| HD Freak 2007-08-17, 1:25 pm |
| Blu-ray discs sales figures are higher then HD DVD discs this year
New research data released last Tuesday by Home Media Research provides a
1st look at actual disc sales numbers for the 1st half of this year, which
shows good news for Blu-ray.
| |
|
| On Aug 17, 12:45 pm, "HD Freak" <hdfr...@g.net> wrote:
> Blu-ray discs sales figures are higher then HD DVD discs this year
>
> New research data released last Tuesday by Home Media Research provides a
> 1st look at actual disc sales numbers for the 1st half of this year, which
> shows good news for Blu-ray.
That study is skewed by the fact that most laptops sold lately come
with Blueray over HD drives, so that becomes the motivation. Is it
HT? Is it convergence? Also how much of that is due to having the
more popular titles? I hope eventually the format that "wins" is the
technically better one, not the marketed or politically better one,
like what happened to Beta. Nobody really benefits if the technically
superior one loses for political/marketing reasons.
| |
| John Carrier 2007-08-17, 8:25 pm |
|
"RickH" <passport@windcrestsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:1187387666.544934.21150@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 17, 12:45 pm, "HD Freak" <hdfr...@g.net> wrote:
>
> That study is skewed by the fact that most laptops sold lately come
> with Blueray over HD drives, so that becomes the motivation. Is it
> HT? Is it convergence? Also how much of that is due to having the
> more popular titles? I hope eventually the format that "wins" is the
> technically better one, not the marketed or politically better one,
> like what happened to Beta. Nobody really benefits if the technically
> superior one loses for political/marketing reasons.
Ever hear the aphorism, "Better is the enemy of good enough?" B/R appears
to be slightly superior, but does it matter? Perhaps to technophobes who
claim they can detect the improvement in sound when a amp has 3ft of
sterling silver power cord connecting it to the household current (carried
by yards of lowest common denominator romax).
Most home theaters aren't calibrated and most consumers aren't videophiles.
I suspect that either HD or B/R will be superior to anything off air. The
market itself will determine the best value, neither politics nor marketing.
R / John
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2007-08-17, 9:25 pm |
| In alt.tv.tech.hdtv John Carrier <jxc2@comcast.net> wrote:
|
| "RickH" <passport@windcrestsoftware.com> wrote in message
| news:1187387666.544934.21150@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
|> On Aug 17, 12:45 pm, "HD Freak" <hdfr...@g.net> wrote:
|>> Blu-ray discs sales figures are higher then HD DVD discs this year
|>>
|>> New research data released last Tuesday by Home Media Research provides a
|>> 1st look at actual disc sales numbers for the 1st half of this year,
|>> which
|>> shows good news for Blu-ray.
|>
|> That study is skewed by the fact that most laptops sold lately come
|> with Blueray over HD drives, so that becomes the motivation. Is it
|> HT? Is it convergence? Also how much of that is due to having the
|> more popular titles? I hope eventually the format that "wins" is the
|> technically better one, not the marketed or politically better one,
|> like what happened to Beta. Nobody really benefits if the technically
|> superior one loses for political/marketing reasons.
|
| Ever hear the aphorism, "Better is the enemy of good enough?" B/R appears
| to be slightly superior, but does it matter? Perhaps to technophobes who
| claim they can detect the improvement in sound when a amp has 3ft of
| sterling silver power cord connecting it to the household current (carried
| by yards of lowest common denominator romax).
|
| Most home theaters aren't calibrated and most consumers aren't videophiles.
| I suspect that either HD or B/R will be superior to anything off air. The
| market itself will determine the best value, neither politics nor marketing.
At 25 GB vs. 15 GB, the advantage is in the hands of B-R. More time at the
same compression, or less compress at the same time. Or more data files on
your computer.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2007-08-17-2037@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
| Sal M. Onella 2007-08-18, 3:25 am |
|
<phil-news-nospam@ipal.net> wrote in message
news:fa5ijs4u9r@news3.newsguy.com...
< snip >
> The market itself will determine the best value, neither politics nor
marketing.
>
> At 25 GB vs. 15 GB, the advantage is in the hands of B-R. More time at
the
> same compression, or less compress at the same time. Or more data files
on
> your computer.
>
A supportive look back:
Betamax home video was first from Sony (1975 ) and had arguably better
quality video. When VHS was introduced, it quickly gained an advantage by
having longer taping time per cassette. According to one article I read,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax, RCA pushed Matsushita for the LP VHS
mode. Apparently, the VHS time advantage was all that mattered. I had both
machines in the late 1970's/early 1980's and it mattered to me! Tapes cost
$25.00 each.
| |
| John Carrier 2007-08-18, 9:25 am |
|
<phil-news-nospam@ipal.net> wrote in message
news:fa5ijs4u9r@news3.newsguy.com...
> In alt.tv.tech.hdtv John Carrier <jxc2@comcast.net> wrote:
> |
> | "RickH" <passport@windcrestsoftware.com> wrote in message
> | news:1187387666.544934.21150@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> |> On Aug 17, 12:45 pm, "HD Freak" <hdfr...@g.net> wrote:
> |>> Blu-ray discs sales figures are higher then HD DVD discs this year
> |>>
> |>> New research data released last Tuesday by Home Media Research
> provides a
> |>> 1st look at actual disc sales numbers for the 1st half of this year,
> |>> which
> |>> shows good news for Blu-ray.
> |>
> |> That study is skewed by the fact that most laptops sold lately come
> |> with Blueray over HD drives, so that becomes the motivation. Is it
> |> HT? Is it convergence? Also how much of that is due to having the
> |> more popular titles? I hope eventually the format that "wins" is the
> |> technically better one, not the marketed or politically better one,
> |> like what happened to Beta. Nobody really benefits if the technically
> |> superior one loses for political/marketing reasons.
> |
> | Ever hear the aphorism, "Better is the enemy of good enough?" B/R
> appears
> | to be slightly superior, but does it matter? Perhaps to technophobes
> who
> | claim they can detect the improvement in sound when a amp has 3ft of
> | sterling silver power cord connecting it to the household current
> (carried
> | by yards of lowest common denominator romax).
> |
> | Most home theaters aren't calibrated and most consumers aren't
> videophiles.
> | I suspect that either HD or B/R will be superior to anything off air.
> The
> | market itself will determine the best value, neither politics nor
> marketing.
>
> At 25 GB vs. 15 GB, the advantage is in the hands of B-R. More time at
> the
> same compression, or less compress at the same time. Or more data files
> on
> your computer.
Very true. Again the issue will be whether it matters or not in the
consumer marketplace. Will a movie be clearly superior in B/R to John and
Mary Q. Public? Will the higher data capacity matter when you can just
stream to another disk? Ultimately, I think its going to get down to price
and right now that's still mostly in the arean for the
videophile/technophobe who always leads the tech charge. IIRC, Blockbuster
went with B/R. If a consumer (Walmart) priced player or drive comes out
soon, it'll win.
R / John
| |
| Kuskokwim 2007-08-18, 9:25 am |
| On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:22:39 -0500, John Carrier wrote:
Perhaps to technophobes who
> claim they can detect the improvement in sound when a amp has 3ft of
> sterling silver power cord connecting it to the household current ......
......with an even greater improvement after it has been "broken-in" after
20 hours of use. Having it blessed by a Shinto priest provides even more
improvement, especially in the mid-bass region.
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2007-08-18, 8:25 pm |
| In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Sal M. Onella <salmonella@food.poisoning.org> wrote:
|
| <phil-news-nospam@ipal.net> wrote in message
| news:fa5ijs4u9r@news3.newsguy.com...
|
| < snip >
|
|> The market itself will determine the best value, neither politics nor
| marketing.
|>
|> At 25 GB vs. 15 GB, the advantage is in the hands of B-R. More time at
| the
|> same compression, or less compress at the same time. Or more data files
| on
|> your computer.
|>
|
| A supportive look back:
| Betamax home video was first from Sony (1975 ) and had arguably better
| quality video. When VHS was introduced, it quickly gained an advantage by
| having longer taping time per cassette. According to one article I read,
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax, RCA pushed Matsushita for the LP VHS
| mode. Apparently, the VHS time advantage was all that mattered. I had both
| machines in the late 1970's/early 1980's and it mattered to me! Tapes cost
| $25.00 each.
My Sony EIAJ deck needed tape reels that cost $39.95 for just one hour.
At one point I had 5 reels before I finally sold it. I had it hooked up
to the baseband output of a JVC professional monitor and had to change
tapes real fast (it involved threading the tape around the head) to record
a two hour movie (and later rewind both). I could deal with that. But it
was getting expensive to buy tapes on a college student budget. The 3/4
inch cassette deck came out so I sold the EIAJ and started to save for one
of those. Never did get one. But they do show up on EBay every now and
then these days (as do the IVC one inch reel-to-reel pro decks I really
wanted). I finally broke down and got a VHS deck around 1987 (and it was
toasted by a lightning induced surge in 1994 that killed the CPU on it).
It was actually a very nice deck with insert editing which I used to cut
commercials on the fly as I recorded TV shows. I would stop the record
just after commercials started and back it up to the start of commercials
and single frame to the first black and pause it. It would then let me
switch to record while in pause and stay paused, and then go forward at
full speed when I hit play, all done right on the deck itself to avoid
remote latency. Playback across those edits was very smooth.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2007-08-18-1809@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
|
| For those who have not yet read the news today, , Paramount and Dreamworks
have switched from Blu-Ray to HD-DVD.
Target and Blockbuster recently announced their decision to sell Blu-Ray
only. Now, a bad decision.
"HD Freak" <hdfreak@g.net> wrote in message
news:46c5decb$0$2600$547a23d3@news.telebyte.nl...
> Blu-ray discs sales figures are higher then HD DVD discs this year
>
> New research data released last Tuesday by Home Media Research provides a
> 1st look at actual disc sales numbers for the 1st half of this year, which
> shows good news for Blu-ray.
>
| |
|
| "WGD" <wgd.roaming1@verizon.net> wrote in
news:EDHyi.2545$wW6.1406@trnddc08:
> For those who have not yet read the news today, , Paramount and
> Dreamworks have switched from Blu-Ray to HD-DVD.
>
> Target and Blockbuster recently announced their decision to sell
> Blu-Ray only. Now, a bad decision.
>
>
>
>
Yes I cancelled Blockbuster because of that
| |
|
| It is understandable that retailers want to jump on the bandwagon; however,
the wagons are still at the starting gate.
WGD
"skip" <skip[@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9993A3559B1F0sky@207.115.33.102...
> "WGD" <wgd.roaming1@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:EDHyi.2545$wW6.1406@trnddc08:
>
> Yes I cancelled Blockbuster because of that
| |
|
|
Target has now said that they will be selling Blu-Ray players and both
Blu-Ray & HD-DVD disks
"WGD" <wgd.roaming1@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:EDHyi.2545$wW6.1406@trnddc08...
> For those who have not yet read the news today, , Paramount and Dreamworks
> have switched from Blu-Ray to HD-DVD.
>
> Target and Blockbuster recently announced their decision to sell Blu-Ray
> only. Now, a bad decision.
>
>
>
>
> "HD Freak" <hdfreak@g.net> wrote in message
> news:46c5decb$0$2600$547a23d3@news.telebyte.nl...
>
>
| |
| Tom Payne 2007-08-30, 3:25 am |
| In alt.home-theater.misc John Carrier <jxc2@comcast.net> wrote:
[...]
> Most home theaters aren't calibrated and most consumers aren't videophiles.
> I suspect that either HD or B/R will be superior to anything off air. The
> market itself will determine the best value, neither politics nor marketing.
Hmmmmm. What makes you think that the "market itself" isn't
determined by "politics or marketing."
Some of my friends believe that as the porn industry goes, so goes the
market, and they've gone HD-DVD. But so far it's not clear that's how
the industry is going.
I believe that the battle will be won on something that absurd, but ...
THP
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2007-08-30, 9:25 am |
| In alt.tv.tech.hdtv Tom Payne <thp@orpheus.cs.ucr.edu> wrote:
| In alt.home-theater.misc John Carrier <jxc2@comcast.net> wrote:
| [...]
|> Most home theaters aren't calibrated and most consumers aren't videophiles.
|> I suspect that either HD or B/R will be superior to anything off air. The
|> market itself will determine the best value, neither politics nor marketing.
|
| Hmmmmm. What makes you think that the "market itself" isn't
| determined by "politics or marketing."
Too often "the free market" is in fact manipulated by such politics or
marketing efforts by corporations. Marketing is certainly an unavoidable
element of it. But marketing should be limited to the competing side
stating their cases (in a glitzy way, I guess). Things like corporate
backroom deals to promote exclusivity and lock-in should be totally
prohibited. An aanlogy case exists with certain cellphone makers that
make their cellphones to only work on certain providers (but do not mix
this up with cellphones that are paid for through a service plan, though
that should only be an option, not the only way to get one).
| Some of my friends believe that as the porn industry goes, so goes the
| market, and they've gone HD-DVD. But so far it's not clear that's how
| the industry is going.
|
| I believe that the battle will be won on something that absurd, but ...
Maybe it will. OTOH, if Microsoft or Toshiba paid off the porn industry
people to make that decision, then that would be wrong.
Decisions by corporations to go with one, or the other (or both, or neither),
should be made indepently, and most certainly not through payoffs.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2007-08-30-0643@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
| Jason Burgon 2007-09-05, 9:25 pm |
| "Rich Z" <rzarr@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46ddb52e$0$18961$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> The cost adder for the HD-DVD drive is small, and if you had a choice of a
> BluRay player or a combo player for essentially the same money, the
consumer
> will go combo so as not to get stung.
I did a similar thing with my DVD/SACD/DVD-Audio player; went for the
Panasonic that plays both SACD and DVD-A. Now I don't care which of the two
audio formats wins.
--
Jay
Jason Burgon - author of Graphic Vision
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gvision
| |
| inkyblacks@yahoo.com 2007-09-06, 3:25 am |
| Stand alone HD DVD players are outselling stand alone Blu-ray
players. Blu-ray is only selling as a game machine. Those who buy HD
DVD players buy more HD discs than stand alone Blu-ray owners buy Blu-
ray discs.
HD DVD player price will drop to $199.99 next month. The $250. HD DVD
machine Toshiba will soon sell comes with a bunch of free HD DVD
movies. HD DVD should win the race if history repeats itself. HD DVD
is more reliable and the discs will last longer, with fewer defects.
Sony was arrogant, as usual, in sticking with Blu-ray, as it is
needlessly expensive and complex, and produces less performance at a
higher cost with lower reliability. The top management at Sony is
nuts and should be fired.
IB
| |
| Mutley 2007-09-06, 3:25 am |
| "inkyblacks@yahoo.com" <inkyblacks@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Stand alone HD DVD players are outselling stand alone Blu-ray
>players. Blu-ray is only selling as a game machine. Those who buy HD
>DVD players buy more HD discs than stand alone Blu-ray owners buy Blu-
>ray discs.
>
>HD DVD player price will drop to $199.99 next month. The $250. HD DVD
>machine Toshiba will soon sell comes with a bunch of free HD DVD
>movies. HD DVD should win the race if history repeats itself. HD DVD
>is more reliable and the discs will last longer, with fewer defects.
>
>Sony was arrogant, as usual, in sticking with Blu-ray, as it is
>needlessly expensive and complex, and produces less performance at a
>higher cost with lower reliability. The top management at Sony is
>nuts and should be fired.
>
>IB
I think Sony is getting desperate.
"Sony invites Toshiba and Microsoft to join Blu-ray camp"
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/n...ray-group.phtml
| |
| John Carrier 2007-09-06, 9:25 am |
|
<inkyblacks@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1189060431.788795.18100@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> Stand alone HD DVD players are outselling stand alone Blu-ray
> players. Blu-ray is only selling as a game machine. Those who buy HD
> DVD players buy more HD discs than stand alone Blu-ray owners buy Blu-
> ray discs.
>
> HD DVD player price will drop to $199.99 next month. The $250. HD DVD
> machine Toshiba will soon sell comes with a bunch of free HD DVD
> movies. HD DVD should win the race if history repeats itself. HD DVD
> is more reliable and the discs will last longer, with fewer defects.
That's the 800 pound gorilla in the argument, player cost.
> Sony was arrogant, as usual, in sticking with Blu-ray, as it is
> needlessly expensive and complex, and produces less performance at a
> higher cost with lower reliability. The top management at Sony is
> nuts and should be fired.
While its doubtlessly more expensive ($500 versus $300 at my last check), is
it more complex? Does it have less performance (it's got greater capacity)?
Is there data showing its less reliable?
Sony only made two mistakes with Beta back when. Too expensive and not
enough playing time. It was superior in every way to VHS, but lost on what
mattered most to the consumer. Likely that will happen again, but I doubt
it'll have anything to do with complexity, performance or reliability.
R / John
| |
| rdclark 2007-09-06, 5:25 pm |
| On Sep 5, 10:16 pm, "Jason Burgon" <jayn...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I did a similar thing with my DVD/SACD/DVD-Audio player; went for the
> Panasonic that plays both SACD and DVD-A. Now I don't care which of the two
> audio formats wins.
What we didn't anticipate was that they would both lose!
r
| |
| Jason Burgon 2007-09-07, 1:25 pm |
| "rdclark" <rdclark2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189105149.512828.30810@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 5, 10:16 pm, "Jason Burgon" <jayn...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> What we didn't anticipate was that they would both lose!
Yes, the number of releases on either format has been very disappointing.
Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" on SACD shows just what incredible
results can be acheived.
I think the bottom line is that Joe Public doesn't care much about sound
quality, and is quite happy with his MP3 download playing on his £20
speakers. :-(
--
Jay
Jason Burgon - author of Graphic Vision
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gvision
| |
| Lloyd Parsons 2007-09-07, 1:25 pm |
| In article <DjdEi.28570$Db6.12624@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
"Jason Burgon" <jaynews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "rdclark" <rdclark2@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1189105149.512828.30810@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Yes, the number of releases on either format has been very disappointing.
> Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" on SACD shows just what incredible
> results can be acheived.
>
> I think the bottom line is that Joe Public doesn't care much about sound
> quality, and is quite happy with his MP3 download playing on his £20
> speakers. :-(
>
> --
> Jay
>
> Jason Burgon - author of Graphic Vision
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gvision
I think that really does hit the nail on the head and is part of the
problem that Hi Def DVD is having in gaining marketshare.
First all too many average homes have TVs smaller than 50", but even at
50" if they are watching from 10' or more away, they can't see enough
difference between Hi Def DVDs and upscaled standard DVDs.
Then with the HTIB or small surround, or maybe just the TV sound, they
don't get enough benefit from the better soundtracks of the newer
HDDVD/BD encodes.
That's why total marketshare of both hi defs combined is only 1-2%.
| |
| common_ sense@netscape.com 2007-09-08, 3:25 am |
| Doug McDonald <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>rdclark wrote:
>
>SACD seems still quite alive; out of 16 disks I just bought,
>three are SACD. Most but not all of the others were recorded
>in plain stereo ... there is no surround or center channel to
>cause a need for SACD. The recordings I have on SACD span the
>time period of initial recording from 1955 to 2005. The 1955-1967
>ones of course are not surround, but rather three channel
>stereo with a separate center channel, and play as such on the
>SACD player.
>
>Doug McDonald
your numbers not only say the format is dead, its been embalmed and
buried.
| |
| common_ sense@netscape.com 2007-09-08, 3:25 am |
| "Jason Burgon" <jaynews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>"rdclark" <rdclark2@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1189105149.512828.30810@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>Yes, the number of releases on either format has been very disappointing.
>Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" on SACD shows just what incredible
>results can be acheived.
>
>I think the bottom line is that Joe Public doesn't care much about sound
>quality, and is quite happy with his MP3 download playing on his £20
>speakers. :-(
>
>--
>Jay
>
>Jason Burgon - author of Graphic Vision
>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gvision
>
>
sad to say
You are absolutely correct.
| |
| Rich Clark 2007-09-08, 3:25 am |
|
"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fbscli$bpq$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
> SACD seems still quite alive; out of 16 disks I just bought,
> three are SACD. Most but not all of the others were recorded
> in plain stereo ... there is no surround or center channel to
> cause a need for SACD. The recordings I have on SACD span the
> time period of initial recording from 1955 to 2005. The 1955-1967
> ones of course are not surround, but rather three channel
> stereo with a separate center channel, and play as such on the
> SACD player.
You can buy anything in any format ever made if you're willing to pay
enough. That's the meaning of "niche" in the phrase "niche format." So yes,
SACD is "alive" in the sense that a brain-dead person who needs a machine to
keep breathing is "alive."
Sony, the inventor and chief proponent of SACD, has abandoned it. How much
more dead can it get?
r
| |
| common_ sense@netscape.com 2007-09-09, 8:25 pm |
| "Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
>news:fbscli$bpq$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
>
>
>You can buy anything in any format ever made if you're willing to pay
>enough. That's the meaning of "niche" in the phrase "niche format." So yes,
>SACD is "alive" in the sense that a brain-dead person who needs a machine to
>keep breathing is "alive."
>
>Sony, the inventor and chief proponent of SACD, has abandoned it. How much
>more dead can it get?
>
>r
>
>
Its dead, buried, and not mourned over,,,,properly mastered 48khz CDs
are indeed "perfect sound forever". Note I said properly mastered.
Another over priced Sony techno triumph,,LOL
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