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Home > Archive > Plumbing forum > October 2005 > second floor washer/dryer - floor drain liner?
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second floor washer/dryer - floor drain liner?
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| Snowbound 2005-10-22, 5:21 pm |
| I'm moving the washer/dryer to the second floor. I'm installing an enclosed
tiled floor with a floor drain to catch any leaks. (It's elevated 5" so that
the laundry basket fits under the doors when you swing them open and so you
don't have bend over as far).
It was recommended that I put in a rubber pan liner between the layers of
mortar like you do with a tiled shower. I trying to balance the risk of
leaks through the tile vs. the floor's stability. Since the drain is just
for emergencies and won't be used regularly (hopefuly not at all) I'm
wondering if it's a good idea. My concern is how well the tiled floor will
last with the vibrations from the washer and dryer it it's got the rubber
sheet layer. How well does the mortar bond to this rubber?
Any opinions?
| |
| Mike Grooms 2005-10-22, 6:21 pm |
|
"Snowbound"
I wouldn't bother with the liner at all. The only caution I'd mention is
to make it easy to shut off the hoses to the machine. They make a nice
valve that shuts off hot and cold with a single lever. It's very convienent
having the laundry on the second floor, but you probably should protect
yourself from a flood by shutting off the water between uses. A hose that
bursts can cost thousands of dollars.
| |
| Snowbound 2005-10-22, 7:21 pm |
| Thanks for the advice. I did indeed put in one of those single lever valves.
I used one of those white plastic boxes that go into the wall with the
hot/cold water and washer drain.
"Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:9e8b8$435aa73a$d8443297$30029@FUSE.NET...
>
> "Snowbound"
>
> I wouldn't bother with the liner at all. The only caution I'd mention
> is
> to make it easy to shut off the hoses to the machine. They make a nice
> valve that shuts off hot and cold with a single lever. It's very
> convienent
> having the laundry on the second floor, but you probably should protect
> yourself from a flood by shutting off the water between uses. A hose that
> bursts can cost thousands of dollars.
>
>
| |
| Blackbeard 2005-10-23, 11:21 am |
| Oh...YOU did the work yourself.
Tell us more.
How did you vent it?
And how did you vent your floor drain?
Your floor drain will almost never see any water (probably NEVER in
fact) what are you using the prime your trap? If you havent' installed
it yet, you might want to install an automatic trap primer so you
don't have to fuck with it at all. Either that or you can do that
trick where you deliberately backgrade a section of drain pipe in
order to auto-prime your trap by stealing some of the water from your
washing machine loads. Not to code in most areas though.
And no, you don't need a liner. However, I love those liners. When we
remodeled the house, we used that stuff everywhere. I have all tile
everywhere in the house now. Spring cleaning around here is a breeze.
I simply move the furniture and use the pressure washer to clean the
interior. If you like clean, this is the only way to go.
I agree that turning the water off entirely isn't a bad idea. However,
I personally use DW hoses that are metal-braided for an added level of
protection. I do think a VERY accessible whole house shutoff makes a
lot of sense. Instead of turning off ONE fixture, why not turn the
whole house off before you leave for work?
| |
| Snowbound 2005-10-23, 12:21 pm |
| Yes I am doing it myself. It's a full bathroom renovation. It was one of
those 70's bathrooms, avacado green with white shag carpet. It was poorly
laid out so there was a lot of wasted space. It's a 14' long room that had
no ceiling lights or fan. It just had one of those long strips of round
light bulbs that go over the mirror.
We were able to reorganize it so we could fit a set of those european style
front loading washer/dryers without (I think) making it look like too much
like a laundry room.
The washer/dryer it where there used to be a sink so it vents directly up
through the wall behind it. I was going to put an automatic trap primer but
the guy at the plumbing store talked me out of it. He recommended putting
some mineral oil in the draing to stop it from evaporation.
Thanks
"Blackbeard" <michael_curtis_young@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:594nl1pdfhhd2inalq85016gje00n94ep0@4ax.com...
> Oh...YOU did the work yourself.
>
> Tell us more.
>
> How did you vent it?
>
> And how did you vent your floor drain?
>
> Your floor drain will almost never see any water (probably NEVER in
> fact) what are you using the prime your trap? If you havent' installed
> it yet, you might want to install an automatic trap primer so you
> don't have to fuck with it at all. Either that or you can do that
> trick where you deliberately backgrade a section of drain pipe in
> order to auto-prime your trap by stealing some of the water from your
> washing machine loads. Not to code in most areas though.
>
> And no, you don't need a liner. However, I love those liners. When we
> remodeled the house, we used that stuff everywhere. I have all tile
> everywhere in the house now. Spring cleaning around here is a breeze.
> I simply move the furniture and use the pressure washer to clean the
> interior. If you like clean, this is the only way to go.
>
> I agree that turning the water off entirely isn't a bad idea. However,
> I personally use DW hoses that are metal-braided for an added level of
> protection. I do think a VERY accessible whole house shutoff makes a
> lot of sense. Instead of turning off ONE fixture, why not turn the
> whole house off before you leave for work?
>
| |
| Red Jacket The Laughing Indian ! 2005-10-24, 4:21 am |
| I put in a 'Apartment ' laundry in my Moms place. Its a small
washer and a dryer above it. Its great for her.
Everyone who walks into the place loves it.
Yes, I always tell people to put veg oil in a trap that is
not used or fill it with a little concrete. Anything that will stop
gas from coming in.
"Snowbound" <hook@sym.ca> wrote in message
news:l2N6f.1297$Nj3.40421@news20.bellglobal.com...
Yes I am doing it myself. It's a full bathroom renovation. It was one of
those 70's bathrooms, avacado green with white shag carpet. It was poorly
laid out so there was a lot of wasted space. It's a 14' long room that had
no ceiling lights or fan. It just had one of those long strips of round
light bulbs that go over the mirror.
We were able to reorganize it so we could fit a set of those european style
front loading washer/dryers without (I think) making it look like too much
like a laundry room.
The washer/dryer it where there used to be a sink so it vents directly up
through the wall behind it. I was going to put an automatic trap primer but
the guy at the plumbing store talked me out of it. He recommended putting
some mineral oil in the draing to stop it from evaporation.
Thanks
"Blackbeard" <michael_curtis_young@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:594nl1pdfhhd2inalq85016gje00n94ep0@4ax.com...
> Oh...YOU did the work yourself.
>
> Tell us more.
>
> How did you vent it?
>
> And how did you vent your floor drain?
>
> Your floor drain will almost never see any water (probably NEVER in
> fact) what are you using the prime your trap? If you havent' installed
> it yet, you might want to install an automatic trap primer so you
> don't have to fuck with it at all. Either that or you can do that
> trick where you deliberately backgrade a section of drain pipe in
> order to auto-prime your trap by stealing some of the water from your
> washing machine loads. Not to code in most areas though.
>
> And no, you don't need a liner. However, I love those liners. When we
> remodeled the house, we used that stuff everywhere. I have all tile
> everywhere in the house now. Spring cleaning around here is a breeze.
> I simply move the furniture and use the pressure washer to clean the
> interior. If you like clean, this is the only way to go.
>
> I agree that turning the water off entirely isn't a bad idea. However,
> I personally use DW hoses that are metal-braided for an added level of
> protection. I do think a VERY accessible whole house shutoff makes a
> lot of sense. Instead of turning off ONE fixture, why not turn the
> whole house off before you leave for work?
>
| |
| Red Jacket The Laughing Indian ! 2005-10-24, 4:21 am |
|
"Red Jacket The Laughing Indian !" <RedJacketTheaughingindian!@yahoo.com>
wrote in message news:xNmdndLj2_COHcHeRVn-pw@adelphia.com...
I put in a 'Apartment ' laundry in my Moms place. Its a small
washer and a dryer above it. Its great for her.
Everyone who walks into the place loves it.
Yes, I always tell people to put veg oil in a trap that is
not used or fill it with a little concrete. Anything that will stop
gas from coming in.
Ok, I re read the post. Yeah, for this use a primer in the trap.
"Snowbound" <hook@sym.ca> wrote in message
news:l2N6f.1297$Nj3.40421@news20.bellglobal.com...
Yes I am doing it myself. It's a full bathroom renovation. It was one of
those 70's bathrooms, avacado green with white shag carpet. It was poorly
laid out so there was a lot of wasted space. It's a 14' long room that had
no ceiling lights or fan. It just had one of those long strips of round
light bulbs that go over the mirror.
We were able to reorganize it so we could fit a set of those european style
front loading washer/dryers without (I think) making it look like too much
like a laundry room.
The washer/dryer it where there used to be a sink so it vents directly up
through the wall behind it. I was going to put an automatic trap primer but
the guy at the plumbing store talked me out of it. He recommended putting
some mineral oil in the draing to stop it from evaporation.
Thanks
"Blackbeard" <michael_curtis_young@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:594nl1pdfhhd2inalq85016gje00n94ep0@4ax.com...
> Oh...YOU did the work yourself.
>
> Tell us more.
>
> How did you vent it?
>
> And how did you vent your floor drain?
>
> Your floor drain will almost never see any water (probably NEVER in
> fact) what are you using the prime your trap? If you havent' installed
> it yet, you might want to install an automatic trap primer so you
> don't have to fuck with it at all. Either that or you can do that
> trick where you deliberately backgrade a section of drain pipe in
> order to auto-prime your trap by stealing some of the water from your
> washing machine loads. Not to code in most areas though.
>
> And no, you don't need a liner. However, I love those liners. When we
> remodeled the house, we used that stuff everywhere. I have all tile
> everywhere in the house now. Spring cleaning around here is a breeze.
> I simply move the furniture and use the pressure washer to clean the
> interior. If you like clean, this is the only way to go.
>
> I agree that turning the water off entirely isn't a bad idea. However,
> I personally use DW hoses that are metal-braided for an added level of
> protection. I do think a VERY accessible whole house shutoff makes a
> lot of sense. Instead of turning off ONE fixture, why not turn the
> whole house off before you leave for work?
>
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-10-24, 6:30 pm |
| trap primers suck.
I use 3/4 wirsbo for me pan drain. I use no trap and never tie it into the
sewer.
mine dump to basement floor near floor drain.
For traps that dry out I use the shit from the waterless urinal.
"Red Jacket The Laughing Indian !" <RedJacketTheaughingindian!@yahoo.com>
wrote in message news:3Y2dnTCq7MEMHcHeRVn-jg@adelphia.com...
>
> "Red Jacket The Laughing Indian !" <RedJacketTheaughingindian!@yahoo.com>
> wrote in message news:xNmdndLj2_COHcHeRVn-pw@adelphia.com...
> I put in a 'Apartment ' laundry in my Moms place. Its a small
> washer and a dryer above it. Its great for her.
> Everyone who walks into the place loves it.
>
> Yes, I always tell people to put veg oil in a trap that is
> not used or fill it with a little concrete. Anything that will stop
> gas from coming in.
>
> Ok, I re read the post. Yeah, for this use a primer in the trap.
>
>
>
> "Snowbound" <hook@sym.ca> wrote in message
> news:l2N6f.1297$Nj3.40421@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Yes I am doing it myself. It's a full bathroom renovation. It was one of
> those 70's bathrooms, avacado green with white shag carpet. It was poorly
> laid out so there was a lot of wasted space. It's a 14' long room that had
> no ceiling lights or fan. It just had one of those long strips of round
> light bulbs that go over the mirror.
>
> We were able to reorganize it so we could fit a set of those european
> style
> front loading washer/dryers without (I think) making it look like too much
> like a laundry room.
>
> The washer/dryer it where there used to be a sink so it vents directly up
> through the wall behind it. I was going to put an automatic trap primer
> but
> the guy at the plumbing store talked me out of it. He recommended putting
> some mineral oil in the draing to stop it from evaporation.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> "Blackbeard" <michael_curtis_young@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:594nl1pdfhhd2inalq85016gje00n94ep0@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
| |
| Blackbeard 2005-10-29, 11:21 am |
| Well the mineral oil will work. But that is not my recommendation.
Mineral oil is not in the plumbing code. So whether it works or not,
it doesn't comply with prevailing codes. And since you're re-doing
your bathroom anyways, it's not a big deal to install a primer. They
make a special flood drain and a small device that you will install on
your cold water side of the lavatory. Every time you use the lavatory,
it will feed a little fresh water into your trap.
The problem with mineral oil is that sediment (dirt and etc. from the
floor) will accumulate as a surface skim. Since the floor drain is
specifically an emergency floor drain, that surface skim builds into a
surface film. The layer of surface film will harden and effectively
plug your trap. Then when you NEED that emergency floor drain, you
will find it blocked because of your own caveman engineering advice.
So here's some real advice. 1: it's not a big deal to install a trap
primer. If you're handy enough to redo your own bathroom, then surely
you're clever enough to install a trap primer. 2: the guys at the
plumbing supply house will show (and explain to you) EXACTLY what you
have to do and how to install to make it work. 3: The trap primer
also comes packaged with DIRECTIONS. If you've never done a trap
primer, read the fucking directions. 4: If you do work that is *not*
to code, home inspectors can cause serious problems for you when you
are trying to sell.
For instance...what are you going to do when your house sits on the
market for 6-months in the (almost guaranteed) post-Katrina/iraq war
serious recession that's going to be with us soon. And in this
terrible seller's market..you find one of the few liquid buyers. And
then their home inspector catches onto the fact that the remodel at
your house was done without inspections, was done *not* to code, etc.
And you lose that precious buyer.
Don't chance it buddy. Do the job right. And yes, as a homeowner you
can call in your own inspections. So get your work inspected. I've
seen this shit bite people hard. Do the job 100% to code..every time.
And since you are tying into a riser for a lavatory to catch a clothes
washer, be aware that code allows 1¼" pipe on that lavatory. Code
requires a 2" riser for your washer box. And code does not allow you
to reduce pipe size (nor would you want to because the pump on your
washer will overload and dump water all over the floor). If you're
going to do this job yourself, I applaud your efforts. However, do the
job right. If you don't know what is *right* you can solve that
problem by pulling a homeowner permit and ASKING your local inspectors
to help you BEFORE you do the work.
For instance, bottom of washer box located at 34". However, if you
place the washer box at 34" off the floor, when you install your tile,
now you are NOT 34" off the floor. You just raised the floor...so now
you are 33" off the floor. Some inspectors (I have one in my neck of
the woods) will bust your XXX for being 1" out of compliance. Other
inspectors exercise a little common sense.
But whatever you do, do the fucking job to code. You are just begging
for problems if you deviate from the code.
I would pass your 33" washer box. But I wouldn't pass the job if you
bushed it down from 2" and attached it to a 1½" pipe designed for a
lavatory because I KNOW FOR FACT that it won't work.
Code also specifies that you can ONLY vent within the bathroom group.
That means that you can vent your tub and your toilet with the
lavatory vent. However, you CANNOT vent that bathroom group with your
washer box, nor can you cut into the wet-vented portion of the
bathroom group to install your washer box. I would nail you on these
things because there are safety, sanitary and protection of property
issues attached to those codes. They don't pull these codes out of
their XXX.
The codes are dynamic. They are revised and improved based on
real-world experiences. Sometimes the code seems like a hindrance to
getting the job done. I understand that. But the part nobody seems to
get is that modern plumbing systems are very solid. They are tried and
proven techniques to provide the ultimate homeowner with the best
possible system. You don't notice this because you have few plumbing
problems.
And for those people who like to bemoan "they don't build homes like
they used to..." Well...GOOD! I've worked on hundreds of those
nostalgic "old homes" and their construction practices were apalling.
So don't be a putz. Do your work to code. Mineral oil... yeah, that's
a great idea. The only place to use mineral oil is in existing
construction where is it not practical to tear everything out and
replumb. *NOT* in new construction...where you have the opportunity to
do it right.
If you DID tap into a 1½" pipe to catch that washer box, let me do you
a big huge favor. TEAR IT OUT and redo the thing before you close the
wall. If you don't do it now, it'll just cost you more money and more
inconvenience to do it later. Trust me on this chief.
I'm not against you doing your own work. I'm only against you doing
the job in non-compliance with code. I'm not a code freak. For what
it's worth, I know what you want. You want the job to work properly.
And I know what you don't want. You don't want to have to tear it out
and re-do the work; you don't want a flooded bathroom; you don't want
to lose potential buyers in the future; and you don't want continual
problems with your DWV in that particular bathroom.
If you don't know...ASK here or ask your local inspectors. If I read
that you flooded your own bathroom and had to tear it all out and
re-do the work, I hope you won't take it personally when a group of us
make a short trip to visit you in person and ram a big plumber's boot
up your XXX. Don't flood yourself.
I'm a licensed plumbing inspector. So yeah, I know what I'm talking
about.
Sincerely,
Blackbeard "the guy with the enormous penis"
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:25:52 -0400, "Snowbound" <hook@sym.ca> wrote:
>Yes I am doing it myself. It's a full bathroom renovation. It was one of
>those 70's bathrooms, avacado green with white shag carpet. It was poorly
>laid out so there was a lot of wasted space. It's a 14' long room that had
>no ceiling lights or fan. It just had one of those long strips of round
>light bulbs that go over the mirror.
>
>We were able to reorganize it so we could fit a set of those european style
>front loading washer/dryers without (I think) making it look like too much
>like a laundry room.
>
>The washer/dryer it where there used to be a sink so it vents directly up
>through the wall behind it. I was going to put an automatic trap primer but
>the guy at the plumbing store talked me out of it. He recommended putting
>some mineral oil in the draing to stop it from evaporation.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>"Blackbeard" <michael_curtis_young@lycos.com> wrote in message
>news:594nl1pdfhhd2inalq85016gje00n94ep0@4ax.com...
>
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