| Author |
Vertical distance of kitchen sink p-trap matter?
|
|
|
| Hello. A new kitchen sink was just installed in an apartment that our family
owns. I installed drainage pipes to connect the drain on the new sink to the
existing drainage pipe that goes into the wall (then goes outside).
It's the first time I've ever done plumbing so it was a bit of a learning
experience. I noticed after it was done that I could have shortened the
vertical distance of the amount of water in the p-trap by about 2.25". The
vertical distance of the water in the p-trap is 7" when I could have made it
about 4.75".
This apartment unit is not rented and is kept vacant so that family members
can stay there when they come to town. My 82 year old mom, who's in good
shape, will stay there overnight about once a week. I mention this to give
an idea how long the water will be staying in the p-trap.
Is a vertical distance of 7" of water in the p-trap too much if the kitchen
sink will only be used about one day a week? Will that much water cause
odors or attract mosquitoes? Should I shorten it to 4.75" to avoid those
possible problems? Finally does anyone know if this is addressed in a
plumbing code?
Thanks for any feedback.
Bill
| |
| plumbguru2 2005-07-11, 11:25 pm |
| On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:51:36 -0700, Bill wrote
(in article <INnAe.676$mN1.530@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com> ):
quote:
> Finally does anyone know if this is addressed in a
> plumbing code?
There IS more than one plumbing code, however the Uniform Plumbing Code
limits trap seals to a minimum of 2 inches and a maximum of 4 inches.
Doug
| |
| PipeDown 2005-07-11, 11:25 pm |
| I've known traps to stink but attracting mosquitoes seems unlikely to be a
real problem. Any amount of water in the trap would tend to act the same.
(petulance does not prefer deep water nor shallow water)
What you really want to avoid is having too small of a trap such that the
water evaporates before you use it again, at that point sewer gasses can
enter the house and really stink up the kitchen.
Too large of a trap and it may be more prone to clogging with debris or
grease.
If you worry about the sanitary nature of the water down there, get in the
habit of running the sink a few minutes and pouring a glass of lysol (or
similar) in the trap before you vacate each week.
"Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:INnAe.676$mN1.530@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
> Hello. A new kitchen sink was just installed in an apartment that our
> family
> owns. I installed drainage pipes to connect the drain on the new sink to
> the
> existing drainage pipe that goes into the wall (then goes outside).
>
> It's the first time I've ever done plumbing so it was a bit of a learning
> experience. I noticed after it was done that I could have shortened the
> vertical distance of the amount of water in the p-trap by about 2.25".
> The
> vertical distance of the water in the p-trap is 7" when I could have made
> it
> about 4.75".
>
> This apartment unit is not rented and is kept vacant so that family
> members
> can stay there when they come to town. My 82 year old mom, who's in good
> shape, will stay there overnight about once a week. I mention this to
> give
> an idea how long the water will be staying in the p-trap.
>
> Is a vertical distance of 7" of water in the p-trap too much if the
> kitchen
> sink will only be used about one day a week? Will that much water cause
> odors or attract mosquitoes? Should I shorten it to 4.75" to avoid those
> possible problems? Finally does anyone know if this is addressed in a
> plumbing code?
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
>
> Bill
>
>
| |
|
|
"plumbguru2" wrote
quote:
>
> Bill wrote
>
>
> There IS more than one plumbing code, however the Uniform Plumbing Code
> limits trap seals to a minimum of 2 inches and a maximum of 4 inches.
>
> Doug
Thanks Doug. Great info you provided.
Bill
| |
|
|
"PipeDown" wrote
quote:
>
> I've known traps to stink but attracting mosquitoes seems unlikely to be a
> real problem. Any amount of water in the trap would tend to act the same.
> (petulance does not prefer deep water nor shallow water)
>
> What you really want to avoid is having too small of a trap such that the
> water evaporates before you use it again, at that point sewer gasses can
> enter the house and really stink up the kitchen.
>
> Too large of a trap and it may be more prone to clogging with debris or
> grease.
>
> If you worry about the sanitary nature of the water down there, get in the
> habit of running the sink a few minutes and pouring a glass of lysol (or
> similar) in the trap before you vacate each week.
Great info Pipedown. Thanks so much.
Bill
quote:
>
> "Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:INnAe.676$mN1.530@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
learning[vbcol=seagreen]
made[vbcol=seagreen]
good[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-12, 11:25 pm |
| Your P-Trap will dertimine the amount of water in the trap. Did you make
your own trap out of 90's? Make sure your desanco nut is above the weir of
the trap, that way you don't rely on that connection to hold standing water
(why create a potential leak?).
Either you have one fucked up p trap or you have botched the install and put
the trap downhill of the drain. I am suprized you didnt pick up on that
guru. ? 7" ?
"Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OeKAe.632$Rv7.61@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
>
> "PipeDown" wrote
>
> Great info Pipedown. Thanks so much.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> learning
> made
> good
>
>
| |
| Mike Grooms 2005-07-12, 11:25 pm |
|
"Ned Flanders"
I sort of wondered what he meant by the 7", but I assumed he was talking
about the tailpiece. If not, then a DIYer strikes again.
| |
| PipeDown 2005-07-13, 11:26 pm |
|
"Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:4558c$42d46c0b$d8c4ba41$17896@FUSE.NET...
quote:
>
> "Ned Flanders"
>
> I sort of wondered what he meant by the 7", but I assumed he was talking
> about the tailpiece. If not, then a DIYer strikes again.
>
>
Hmm, Wonder if he is talking about the vertical drop before the trap. In
this case, the distance shouldn't matter as long as the trap is spec.
| |
|
|
"Ned Flanders" wrote
quote:
>
> Your P-Trap will dertimine the amount of water in the trap.
Yep.
quote:
> Did you make
> your own trap out of 90's?
I had a vertical pipe coming down off the sink drain (pipe 1) that has side
offshoot where the dishwasher hose connects to it.
Connected to the bottom of pipe 1 was a pipe (pipe 2) with a 180 degree turn
(the trap section). The top of pipe 2 (where it connects to pipe 1) is
higher than the other end of pipe 2 (which is the end of the 180 degree
turn).
I had a small 2.25" (vertical) section that connected to the lower end of
pipe 2. The upper end of this small section connected to a pipe (pipe 3)
with a 90 degree turn into a straight (horizontal) section.
I'm going to remove this small section and run pipe 2 directly into a new
pipe 3, same shape as the old pipe 3 but with an end that allows me to
eliminate the small section (I'll have to cut a little off of pipe 1 for
everything to fit).
The end of pipe 3 connects to the existing (horizontal) pipe that goes out
the wall down the side of the house.
quote:
> Make sure your desanco nut is above the weir of
> the trap, that way you don't rely on that connection to hold standing
water
quote:
> (why create a potential leak?).
The end of pipe 2 (the trap pipe) is where the 180 degree turn ends so there
will be a nut connecting pipe 2 to pipe 3 there so the nut will be in
standing water of the trap.
I don't think there's an alternative to that since I can't use one p-trap
pipe that has the 180 degree trap section and 90 turn since it won't be
inline with the existing pipe. I'll check that again to confirm that but I
don't think I can have one pipe being both pipe 2 (180 degree trap pipe) and
pipe 3 (90 degree turn into a straight section).
quote:
> Either you have one fucked up p trap
Well I don't think it's a p-trap since it's two pipes (pipes 2 and 3). A
p-trap would be one pipe (I think).
quote:
> or you have botched the install and put
> the trap downhill of the drain.
I don't know what you mean by "you have put the trap downhill of the drain."
It is a working trap (or will be when I'm done) in that the trap is the
lowest elevation point so water will be trapped in the 180 degree section.
quote:
> I am suprized you didnt pick up on that
> guru. ? 7" ?
As I said above, I'll take out the small vertical section connecting pipe 2
to pipe 3 so the midline of the lowest point on the 180 degree trap section
(pipe 2) will be 4.5" lower than the midline of the existing pipe going into
the wall.
Thanks for the questions you raised. I would never have thought of them.
Take care,
Bill
quote:
>
>
>
>
>
> "Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OeKAe.632$Rv7.61@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
be[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
can[vbcol=seagreen]
(or[vbcol=seagreen]
2.25".[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
a[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
| |
|
|
"PipeDown" wrote
quote:
>
> "Mike Grooms" wrote
talking[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Hmm, Wonder if he is talking about the vertical drop before the trap. In
> this case, the distance shouldn't matter as long as the trap is spec.
The 7" referred to the vertical distance from the lowest point on the
midline of the trap to the midline of the pipe going into the wall. Based on
the very helpful comments I have received on this ng (thanks!), I am going
to remove a small vertical section (see my other post in this thread that I
just sent for all the details) so what was 7" will be about 4.5" when it's
done.
I measured the vertical distance in the bathroom trap and that was about 4"
so I figure 4.5" should work.
Thanks for the feedback.
Bill
quote:
>
>
>
| |
|
| WHEW! All That for a p-trap?
It's probably beyond the point now, but a pic of all this 'project' might
help I think.
"Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:CbnBe.2115$_%4.1410@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
"Ned Flanders" wrote
quote:
>
> Your P-Trap will dertimine the amount of water in the trap.
Yep.
quote:
> Did you make
> your own trap out of 90's?
I had a vertical pipe coming down off the sink drain (pipe 1) that has side
offshoot where the dishwasher hose connects to it.
Connected to the bottom of pipe 1 was a pipe (pipe 2) with a 180 degree turn
(the trap section). The top of pipe 2 (where it connects to pipe 1) is
higher than the other end of pipe 2 (which is the end of the 180 degree
turn).
I had a small 2.25" (vertical) section that connected to the lower end of
pipe 2. The upper end of this small section connected to a pipe (pipe 3)
with a 90 degree turn into a straight (horizontal) section.
I'm going to remove this small section and run pipe 2 directly into a new
pipe 3, same shape as the old pipe 3 but with an end that allows me to
eliminate the small section (I'll have to cut a little off of pipe 1 for
everything to fit).
The end of pipe 3 connects to the existing (horizontal) pipe that goes out
the wall down the side of the house.
quote:
> Make sure your desanco nut is above the weir of
> the trap, that way you don't rely on that connection to hold standing
water
quote:
> (why create a potential leak?).
The end of pipe 2 (the trap pipe) is where the 180 degree turn ends so there
will be a nut connecting pipe 2 to pipe 3 there so the nut will be in
standing water of the trap.
I don't think there's an alternative to that since I can't use one p-trap
pipe that has the 180 degree trap section and 90 turn since it won't be
inline with the existing pipe. I'll check that again to confirm that but I
don't think I can have one pipe being both pipe 2 (180 degree trap pipe) and
pipe 3 (90 degree turn into a straight section).
quote:
> Either you have one fucked up p trap
Well I don't think it's a p-trap since it's two pipes (pipes 2 and 3). A
p-trap would be one pipe (I think).
quote:
> or you have botched the install and put
> the trap downhill of the drain.
I don't know what you mean by "you have put the trap downhill of the drain."
It is a working trap (or will be when I'm done) in that the trap is the
lowest elevation point so water will be trapped in the 180 degree section.
quote:
> I am suprized you didnt pick up on that
> guru. ? 7" ?
As I said above, I'll take out the small vertical section connecting pipe 2
to pipe 3 so the midline of the lowest point on the 180 degree trap section
(pipe 2) will be 4.5" lower than the midline of the existing pipe going into
the wall.
Thanks for the questions you raised. I would never have thought of them.
Take care,
Bill
quote:
>
>
>
>
>
> "Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:OeKAe.632$Rv7.61@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
be[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
can[vbcol=seagreen]
(or[vbcol=seagreen]
2.25".[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
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>
>
| |
| Mike Grooms 2005-07-16, 12:25 pm |
|
"Bill"
We've gotten lost in all your details. From what it sounds like, you
should have been able to simply buy a tubular P trap and installed it.
Traps are specifically designed not only to hold a water seal, but to be
self-cleansing. When someone manufactures his own trap, the danger is that
it won't flush the water through.
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-16, 6:26 pm |
| sorry cant understand you.
bottom line..trap will controll amount of water unless trap is down hill of
mail drain.
the trap (the weir of the trap) has to be above the hole in the wall where
drain exits.
"Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:bf6a6$42d912e9$d8444b0d$29053@FUSE.NET...
quote:
>
> "Bill"
>
> We've gotten lost in all your details. From what it sounds like, you
> should have been able to simply buy a tubular P trap and installed it.
> Traps are specifically designed not only to hold a water seal, but to be
> self-cleansing. When someone manufactures his own trap, the danger is
> that
> it won't flush the water through.
>
>
| |
|
|
"Mike Grooms" wrote
quote:
>
> "Bill"
>
> We've gotten lost in all your details.
I probably made it a lot longer than necessary but I wanted to be thorough.
Here's hopefully a better explanation:
A new sink was installed and the drain location on the new sink is different
than the original sink drain location. At the new sink drain, a new straight
drain pipe (pipe 1) will go down from it.
Attached to pipe 1 will be pipe 2, which contains the 180 degree trap
section, so water enters pipe 2 in a down direction and exits pipe 2 in an
up direction.
Attached to pipe 2 will be pipe 3. The end of pipe 3 to be connected to
pipe 2 has a 90 degree turn. So water enters pipe 3 going in an up
direction, then turns 90 degrees into a horizontal direction (actually
slightly downhill direction), then goes in a straight (horizontal) direction
for about 8" (the length of the straight portion of pipe 3).
The straight end of pipe 3 connects directly into the existing horizontal
pipe going into the wall.
I had had a little 2" section of pipe between pipe 2 and pipe 3 which I will
remove. This will decrease the trap length by 2". I'm defining trap length
as the (vertical) distance from the bottom of the trap (at the centerline)
to where the drain water begins flowing in an almost horizontal direction
(at the centerline of that pipe) - the location on pipe 3 just after the 90
degree turn.
quote:
> From what it sounds like, you
> should have been able to simply buy a tubular P trap and installed it.
I can't have pipe 2 and pipe 3 be one pipe (meaning a pipe containing both
the 180 degree trap and the 90 degree turn).
Here's why: if I use such a pipe, there's no way to get the drain water
flowing out of pipe 3 to go directly into the existing pipe going into the
wall. I would have to use 45 or 30 degree sections at the end of pipe 3 to
connect the end of pipe 3 to the existing pipe going into the wall.
By rotating pipe 2 (the trap pipe) at the pipe 1 - pipe 2 interface and pipe
3 at the pipe 2 - pipe 3 interface, I can line up pipe 3 so it goes directly
into the existing pipe going into the wall.
quote:
> Traps are specifically designed not only to hold a water seal, but to be
> self-cleansing. When someone manufactures his own trap, the danger is
that
quote:
> it won't flush the water through.
Well I don't have a choice in making the p-trap consist of two pipes rather
than one (for the reasons I stated above).
Your last comment has made me realize the importance of making sure the
water is flowing downhill so it can enter the pipe going into the wall.
This means I have to make sure the straight part of pipe 3 (the pipe that
connects to the existing pipe going into the wall) is slightly downhill, not
horizontal. Thanks for emphasizing that.
Thanks for the feedback.
Bill
quote:
>
>
| |
|
|
"Ned Flanders" wrote
quote:
>
> sorry cant understand you.
Sorry I wasn't clearer. I just did another post where I tried explaining it
again, hopefully it's more clear on that post.
quote:
> bottom line..trap will controll amount of water unless trap is down hill
of
quote:
> mail drain.
> the trap (the weir of the trap) has to be above the hole in the wall where
> drain exits.
I probably didn't realize the importance making sure the straight part of
the pipe that connects to the pipe going into the wall has a definite
downward tilt to it so gravity can do its thing. Thanks for emphasizing
that.
Thanks for the feedback.
Bill
quote:
>
>
> "Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:bf6a6$42d912e9$d8444b0d$29053@FUSE.NET...
>
>
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-17, 6:25 pm |
| I am sorry I could not make it any more clear than I already have.
You dont want that answer I guess.
You want to go on with your terrible description of your plumbing and
hopefully
get someone to say you have done the right thing.
It is a very very simple answer. If you can remove a small bit of pipe and
change the amount of water the trap holds then you have certianly botched
the install. There is no way around this , sorry.
If your new sink is much deeper then you might be shit out of luck and need
to replumb the whole drain.
A drum trap will buy you a couple of inches.
just currious but are you a liberal?
"Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:22mCe.3962$_%4.2279@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
>
> "Mike Grooms" wrote
>
> I probably made it a lot longer than necessary but I wanted to be
> thorough.
> Here's hopefully a better explanation:
>
> A new sink was installed and the drain location on the new sink is
> different
> than the original sink drain location. At the new sink drain, a new
> straight
> drain pipe (pipe 1) will go down from it.
>
> Attached to pipe 1 will be pipe 2, which contains the 180 degree trap
> section, so water enters pipe 2 in a down direction and exits pipe 2 in an
> up direction.
>
> Attached to pipe 2 will be pipe 3. The end of pipe 3 to be connected to
> pipe 2 has a 90 degree turn. So water enters pipe 3 going in an up
> direction, then turns 90 degrees into a horizontal direction (actually
> slightly downhill direction), then goes in a straight (horizontal)
> direction
> for about 8" (the length of the straight portion of pipe 3).
>
> The straight end of pipe 3 connects directly into the existing horizontal
> pipe going into the wall.
>
> I had had a little 2" section of pipe between pipe 2 and pipe 3 which I
> will
> remove. This will decrease the trap length by 2". I'm defining trap
> length
> as the (vertical) distance from the bottom of the trap (at the centerline)
> to where the drain water begins flowing in an almost horizontal direction
> (at the centerline of that pipe) - the location on pipe 3 just after the
> 90
> degree turn.
>
>
>
> I can't have pipe 2 and pipe 3 be one pipe (meaning a pipe containing both
> the 180 degree trap and the 90 degree turn).
>
> Here's why: if I use such a pipe, there's no way to get the drain water
> flowing out of pipe 3 to go directly into the existing pipe going into the
> wall. I would have to use 45 or 30 degree sections at the end of pipe 3 to
> connect the end of pipe 3 to the existing pipe going into the wall.
>
> By rotating pipe 2 (the trap pipe) at the pipe 1 - pipe 2 interface and
> pipe
> 3 at the pipe 2 - pipe 3 interface, I can line up pipe 3 so it goes
> directly
> into the existing pipe going into the wall.
>
> that
>
> Well I don't have a choice in making the p-trap consist of two pipes
> rather
> than one (for the reasons I stated above).
>
> Your last comment has made me realize the importance of making sure the
> water is flowing downhill so it can enter the pipe going into the wall.
> This means I have to make sure the straight part of pipe 3 (the pipe that
> connects to the existing pipe going into the wall) is slightly downhill,
> not
> horizontal. Thanks for emphasizing that.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
| |
|
|
"Ned Flanders" wrote
quote:
>
> I am sorry I could not make it any more clear than I already have.
I understood you just fine but you apparently didn't understand me. I was
trying to change that but apparently you didn't understant the second
explanation. You never said what it was I wrote that was confusing you.
quote:
> You dont want that answer I guess.
I understand the drainpipe going into the wall (and the straight portion of
the pipe connected to it) has to have a downward tilt. I am quite aware of
the phenomenon of gravity.
quote:
> You want to go on with your terrible description of your plumbing
If the words "180 degrees" or "90 degrees" confuses you, consult a
dictionary.
quote:
> and
> hopefully
> get someone to say you have done the right thing.
You sound like a paranoid person.
quote:
> It is a very very simple answer. If you can remove a small bit of pipe
and
quote:
> change the amount of water the trap holds then you have certianly botched
> the install. There is no way around this , sorry.
Sorry but that's absurd. The configuration I'm using (with the 2" pipe gone)
is apparently a common configuration since that's how the plumbing is done
under my kitchen sink and under the sink in the bathroom I just checked
(both of which were not done by me - I don't know who did them - but both
have worked just fine for many years).
quote:
> If your new sink is much deeper then you might be shit out of luck and
need
quote:
> to replumb the whole drain.
No need for that - gravity is still in effect.
quote:
> A drum trap will buy you a couple of inches.
>
>
> just currious but are you a liberal?
Sure am and proud of it.
Bill
quote:
>
>
> "Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:22mCe.3962$_%4.2279@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
an[vbcol=seagreen]
horizontal[vbcol=seagreen]
centerline)[vbcol=seagreen]
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>
>
| |
| Blackbeard 2005-07-18, 12:26 pm |
| Bill,
You've been poking around for answers for a week now. At this point,
the most reliable thing you can for for yourself is to take a quick
digital photo of your work and submit it to us for review.
And yes, it sounds like you botched the job. With photos, maybe we can
suggest a solution that won't involve tearing out the wall.
In our trade, the explanation "it works" and "it's installed to code"
are two separate concepts. We don't want it to work. We want the job
done to CODE. The reason code is important is that when you go to sell
your house and the home inspector notices non-code work, they will
request that you get the work done by a licensed professional BEFORE
the sale of your house will finalize. Which means you haven't saved
yourself any money.
More importantly, I bet you have a friend who recently sold his house.
And right before he put it on the market he spent all sorts of time
and money fixing plumbing, scraping, re-painting, fixiing those
drawers in the kitchen that haven't worked for 12-years, FINALLY
sanding and refinishing the hardwoods, etc.
You know a guy like this. We all do.
How 'bout this idea. Instead of fixing a house right before you sell
it, doesn't it make sense to fix it up FOR YOURSELF so you can enjoy
living in a house without the fucked up paint and all the other fuckup
problems?
Plain and simple, non-code work will have to be fixed before most
buyers will close. Non-code work may WORK, but "clever" installations
are prone to problems.
So please send us a digital image of your work. Also, send a digital
image of yourself along with the plumbing images so we can make a
group determination if your face matches our mental image of the guy
called "Bill the liberal"
| |
| Bob Wheatley 2005-07-18, 6:26 pm |
| "Bill the alleged liberal" wrote:
quote:
> I understood you just fine but you apparently didn't understand me. I was
> trying to change that but apparently you didn't understant the second
> explanation. You never said what it was I wrote that was confusing you.
>
Man! I've been gone too long. I finally get some time to come back for a
visit and the hottest discussion here is with a left wing DIY'er? :> ))
I haven't read every word of every post in this thread (I got a lot of
catching up to do) but the guys here are telling you straight.
The "180 degree thingamajig" you are referring to is called the "J-bend".
The "90 degree whatchamacallit" is called the "waste arm".
There should be NO piece of pipe between the two.
Either lengthen shorten the tailpieces from the sink. Period.
Bob Wheatley
| |
| Mike Grooms 2005-07-18, 6:26 pm |
|
Bobby!!
You're back! I thought you wuz dead.
| |
| Bob Wheatley 2005-07-18, 6:26 pm |
| "Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:9227d$42dbdcfe$d8c4bd7f$15197@FUSE.NET...
quote:
>
> Bobby!!
>
> You're back! I thought you wuz dead.
>
Nah. :> )
I just got sideways with a couple of really large projects and between
project management and chasing no paying general contractors down for money
I just had no time.
I'm doing a little "restructuring" (see: downsizing) and hopefully life will
return to something a little more "normal". Whatever that is for a
plumber........:> )
Bob Wheatley
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-18, 11:26 pm |
| I know I am not a bigot but....
Why is it sooo easy to sniff out a "proud" liberal anyway ?
I don't think they know it but they always come across as total assholes
(smarter than thou).
You might call me parinoid but I think I just might be good at reading
people.
"Bob Wheatley" <xmaster.dancer@directway.com> wrote in message
news:11dno5o5ssn59c1@corp.supernews.com...
quote:
> "Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:9227d$42dbdcfe$d8c4bd7f$15197@FUSE.NET...
>
>
> Nah. :> )
> I just got sideways with a couple of really large projects and between
> project management and chasing no paying general contractors down for
> money I just had no time.
> I'm doing a little "restructuring" (see: downsizing) and hopefully life
> will return to something a little more "normal". Whatever that is for a
> plumber........:> )
>
>
> Bob Wheatley
>
>
>
| |
| Mark Monson 2005-07-18, 11:26 pm |
| Blackbeard wrote:
quote:
> Bill,
> You've been poking around for answers for a week now. At this point,
> the most reliable thing you can for for yourself is to take a quick
> digital photo of your work and submit it to us for review.
>
> And yes, it sounds like you botched the job. With photos, maybe we can
> suggest a solution that won't involve tearing out the wall.
>
> In our trade, the explanation "it works" and "it's installed to code"
> are two separate concepts. We don't want it to work. We want the job
> done to CODE. The reason code is important is that when you go to sell
> your house and the home inspector notices non-code work, they will
> request that you get the work done by a licensed professional BEFORE
> the sale of your house will finalize. Which means you haven't saved
> yourself any money.
>
> More importantly, I bet you have a friend who recently sold his house.
> And right before he put it on the market he spent all sorts of time
> and money fixing plumbing, scraping, re-painting, fixiing those
> drawers in the kitchen that haven't worked for 12-years, FINALLY
> sanding and refinishing the hardwoods, etc.
>
> You know a guy like this. We all do.
>
> How 'bout this idea. Instead of fixing a house right before you sell
> it, doesn't it make sense to fix it up FOR YOURSELF so you can enjoy
> living in a house without the fucked up paint and all the other fuckup
> problems?
>
> Plain and simple, non-code work will have to be fixed before most
> buyers will close. Non-code work may WORK, but "clever" installations
> are prone to problems.
>
> So please send us a digital image of your work. Also, send a digital
> image of yourself along with the plumbing images so we can make a
> group determination if your face matches our mental image of the guy
> called "Bill the liberal"
Bill may have made a mess out of his P-trap but he doesn't need to take
any shit about being a liberal. You want to make fun of somebody for
screwing up a plumbing job, fine. That's one of my favorite things
about this group. But leave politics out of it. You and Ned wanna
watch FOX News and jerk each other off go to it, but don't bring that
mouth-breathing fascist bullshit in here.
MM
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-18, 11:26 pm |
| >>>You and Ned wanna watch FOX News and jerk each other off go to it
That shit is just as bad. Don't assume im a conservative cause im not. Just
ask stormin mormon or any other holy roller who posted that shit. This guy
just "sounds" like a lib. I asked him because I wanted to confirm my guess.
He was the one who got hostile first (like a good liberial, hurl insults
when ignorant of facts to use in argument). Just how is it "fascist
bullshit" to rag on a liberial.
He is telling a master plumber that what he said is "absurd" without one
shred of knowledge of the trade or code he is talking about. Lets think of
some words that describe that. Does this guy need to be defended?
"Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
news:10XCe.98796$ho.49109@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
quote:
> Blackbeard wrote:
>
> Bill may have made a mess out of his P-trap but he doesn't need to take
> any shit about being a liberal. You want to make fun of somebody for
> screwing up a plumbing job, fine. That's one of my favorite things about
> this group. But leave politics out of it. You and Ned wanna watch FOX
> News and jerk each other off go to it, but don't bring that
> mouth-breathing fascist bullshit in here.
>
> MM
| |
| Bob Wheatley 2005-07-18, 11:26 pm |
| "Ned Flanders" <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:UAWCe.6070$YD3.3918@trndny03...
quote:
>I know I am not a bigot but....
> Why is it sooo easy to sniff out a "proud" liberal anyway ?
>
Cuz they smell bad? :> )
quote:
> I don't think they know it but they always come across as total assholes
> (smarter than thou).
> You might call me parinoid but I think I just might be good at reading
> people.
>
None of the above.
A "bigot" should not be confused with "adjectives".
The "adjective" is either accurate or it isn't.
Bob Wheatley
| |
|
|
"Blackbeard" wrote
quote:
>
> Bill,
> You've been poking around for answers for a week now.
Just having friendly conversations and thanking people for their feedback
except for Ned who felt he had to turn a plumbing question into a political
thread so he could attack a whole class of people who have a different
political view than he does - in a plumbing thread no less. Does he always
turn plumbing questions into political rants?
At this point, I'm not looking for answers since my questions have been
answered to my satisfaction. Got the info I needed thanks to plumbguru,
Pipedown, and Mike Grooms. Thanks for your feedback below but the job is
basically done now and I don't foresee any problems since the configuration
I have is identical to other sinks that have worked fine for years.
Bill
quote:
> At this point,
> the most reliable thing you can for for yourself is to take a quick
> digital photo of your work and submit it to us for review.
>
>
>
> And yes, it sounds like you botched the job. With photos, maybe we can
> suggest a solution that won't involve tearing out the wall.
>
> In our trade, the explanation "it works" and "it's installed to code"
> are two separate concepts. We don't want it to work. We want the job
> done to CODE. The reason code is important is that when you go to sell
> your house and the home inspector notices non-code work, they will
> request that you get the work done by a licensed professional BEFORE
> the sale of your house will finalize. Which means you haven't saved
> yourself any money.
>
> More importantly, I bet you have a friend who recently sold his house.
> And right before he put it on the market he spent all sorts of time
> and money fixing plumbing, scraping, re-painting, fixiing those
> drawers in the kitchen that haven't worked for 12-years, FINALLY
> sanding and refinishing the hardwoods, etc.
>
> You know a guy like this. We all do.
>
> How 'bout this idea. Instead of fixing a house right before you sell
> it, doesn't it make sense to fix it up FOR YOURSELF so you can enjoy
> living in a house without the fucked up paint and all the other fuckup
> problems?
>
> Plain and simple, non-code work will have to be fixed before most
> buyers will close. Non-code work may WORK, but "clever" installations
> are prone to problems.
>
> So please send us a digital image of your work. Also, send a digital
> image of yourself along with the plumbing images so we can make a
> group determination if your face matches our mental image of the guy
> called "Bill the liberal"
| |
|
|
"Bob Wheatley" wrote
quote:
>
> "Bill the alleged liberal" wrote:
>
was[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
> Man! I've been gone too long. I finally get some time to come back for a
> visit and the hottest discussion here is with a left wing DIY'er? :> ))
>
> I haven't read every word of every post in this thread (I got a lot of
> catching up to do) but the guys here are telling you straight.
Well some guys are. Ned is more interested in a political rant. He should
go to a political ng for that noise.
quote:
> The "180 degree thingamajig" you are referring to is called the "J-bend".
> The "90 degree whatchamacallit" is called the "waste arm".
> There should be NO piece of pipe between the two.
I've said at least twice that that 2" section is not going to be there.
Thanks for the info anyway.
quote:
> Either lengthen shorten the tailpieces from the sink. Period.
It got shortened.
Bill
quote:
>
>
> Bob Wheatley
>
>
>
>
>
| |
|
|
"Ned Flanders" wrote
quote:
>
> I know I am not a bigot but....
> Why is it sooo easy to sniff out a "proud" liberal anyway ?
I guess it was the use of that "180 degree" phrase. All us leftwingers like
to throw that at righties. Gets them every time.
quote:
>
> I don't think they know it but they always come across as total assholes
> (smarter than thou).
Yeah, being polite and appreciative of the help I got here means I'm an
XXXXXXX. You most definitely are paranoid. Watch out they're trying to get
you.
quote:
> You might call me parinoid but I think I just might be good at reading
> people.
You're a paranoid wackjob.
Bill
quote:
>
>
>
> "Bob Wheatley" <xmaster.dancer@directway.com> wrote in message
> news:11dno5o5ssn59c1@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
| |
|
|
"Ned Flanders" wrote
quote:
>
> That shit is just as bad. Don't assume im a conservative cause im not.
Yeah and the Pope is an athiest.
quote:
> Just
> ask stormin mormon or any other holy roller who posted that shit. This guy
> just "sounds" like a lib.
If being polite and thankful for the good info I received here from some
nice folks "sounds like a lib" than you oughta try sounding like one. What
you sound like is a paranoid XXXXXXX.
quote:
> I asked him because I wanted to confirm my guess.
> He was the one who got hostile first (like a good liberial, hurl insults
> when ignorant of facts to use in argument).
Back it up you pathetic liar. Go back and find where I got hostile or
hurled anything that could be remotely considered an insult until after you
did first. You're a sad pathetic lying paranoid piece of shit. You wanted
an insult - well there's your insult.
quote:
> Just how is it "fascist
> bullshit" to rag on a liberial.
Your strange political viewpoints don't belong on a plumbing ng. Go to a
political ng so you can get in political shouting matches there. It's just
noise here.
quote:
> He is telling a master plumber that what he said is "absurd" without one
> shred of knowledge of the trade or code he is talking about. Lets think
of
quote:
> some words that describe that. Does this guy need to be defended?
Well let's look at the "tape" to see what you said in the post I was
replying to where I used the word "absurd" to find out who's the one who got
hostile:
----
Ned wrote:
"I am sorry I could not make it any more clear than I already have. You dont
want that answer I guess. You want to go on with your terrible description
of your plumbing and hopefully get someone to say you have done the right
thing. Just currious but are you a liberal?"
"If you can remove a small bit of pipe and
change the amount of water the trap holds then you have certianly botched
the install."
----
So it was you in the first paragraph above that decided to be the XXXXXXX.
If you used such wording to someone's face, there'd be a confrontation
pretty fast.
And your second paragraph *is* absurd. You'd realize this if you understood
what I wrote when I described the configuration. Taking away that small
section between the J-bend and the waste arm certainly does change the
amount of water the trap holds since the trap is that much shorter.
Bill
quote:
>
>
>
> "Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
> news:10XCe.98796$ho.49109@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
about[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>
| |
| Blackbeard 2005-07-19, 12:26 pm |
| Well as long as you have your problem fixed, glad to hear it.
In this newsgroup, bear in mind that you're dealing with a bunch of
plumbers. They will crack on your for being liberal or conservative or
moderate or anything else. They will crack on your religion. They will
trash jews (even if the guy trashing jews is also a jew). There's not
much point in getting into a verbal battle with a plumber. Plumbers
will flip-flop sides and flip-flop opinions just for the sake of
amusing themselves. It may sound bizarre, but for some odd reason
(maybe someone can explain this), the best day of our week is the day
when we've pissed somebody off and pushed them over the edge to the
point that they completely lose their composure and make complete
asses of themselves.
I have driven to lunch with guys who have deliberately stirred up
altercations with contractors that turned angry and nasty. And on the
way to lunch, they'll turn and chuckle and say "what crawled up his
XXX" (this is after the plumber has talked trash about the contractors
cute daughter, his hot wife, fucking his poodle...and what kinda gay
contractor owns a little poodle...unless it's for sex...and what kinda
sick bastard fucks his dog... (you get the picture).
Keep on slinging insults back and forth and I can pretty much
guarantee this thread will go on until everyone hear grows old and
dies. In the meantime, you'll hear some colorful, descriptive, and
truly offensive mastery of the english language.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:23:50 GMT, "Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
quote:
>
>"Blackbeard" wrote
>
>Just having friendly conversations and thanking people for their feedback
>except for Ned who felt he had to turn a plumbing question into a political
>thread so he could attack a whole class of people who have a different
>political view than he does - in a plumbing thread no less. Does he always
>turn plumbing questions into political rants?
>
>At this point, I'm not looking for answers since my questions have been
>answered to my satisfaction. Got the info I needed thanks to plumbguru,
>Pipedown, and Mike Grooms. Thanks for your feedback below but the job is
>basically done now and I don't foresee any problems since the configuration
>I have is identical to other sinks that have worked fine for years.
>
>Bill
>
>
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-19, 6:26 pm |
| got ya...light the fuse and stand back.
its like pokin at stuff with a stick...funny :-)
libs are sooo easy to piss off.
BTW the job you did is still wrong. And I guess i am hostile agian for
telling you that you made a mistake, that you are wrong.
Are you plae with a very red face??? FAt??
"Bill" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bh0De.4692$_%4.41@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
quote:
>
> "Bob Wheatley" wrote
> was
>
> Well some guys are. Ned is more interested in a political rant. He should
> go to a political ng for that noise.
>
>
>
> I've said at least twice that that 2" section is not going to be there.
> Thanks for the info anyway.
>
>
> It got shortened.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
| |
| Mike Grooms 2005-07-24, 9:12 pm |
|
"Mark Monson"
Hey, you must be one of those commie pinkos. I knew it!
| |
| Mark Monson 2005-07-24, 9:12 pm |
| Mike Grooms wrote:
> "Mark Monson"
>
> Hey, you must be one of those commie pinkos. I knew it!
>
>
Yeah, and you prolly got a basement full of "People" magazines.
MM
| |
| Bob Wheatley 2005-07-24, 9:12 pm |
| "Mark Monson" <mmonson@ttech.net> wrote in message
news:8GsDe.7827$Wt3.57@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> Mike Grooms wrote:
> Yeah, and you prolly got a basement full of "People" magazines.
>
> MM
If I know Mike, they are "girlie people" magazines.:> )
Bob Wheatley
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-27, 7:21 pm |
|
Bob Wheatley <xmaster.dancer@directway.com> wrote in message
news:11dno5o5ssn59c1@corp.supernews.com...
> "Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
> news:9227d$42dbdcfe$d8c4bd7f$15197@FUSE.NET...
>
>
> Nah. :> )
> I just got sideways with a couple of really large projects and between
> project management and chasing no paying general contractors down for
money
> Bob Wheatley
>
AHA ! Dog the Plummer !
>
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-27, 7:21 pm |
| What ? We all got some no good dirty rotten
commie plummer in here ?
* Lamppost & 2'' boiled and stretched US Army
rope. *
Bill <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bh0De.4692$_%4.41@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Bob Wheatley" wrote
> was
you.[color=darkred]
>
> Well some guys are. Ned is more interested in a political rant. He should
> go to a political ng for that noise.
>
>
"J-bend".[color=darkred]
>
> I've said at least twice that that 2" section is not going to be there.
> Thanks for the info anyway.
>
>
> It got shortened.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-27, 7:21 pm |
| In all if you have any kind of trap that is not
often used you do one of two things.
Put a drip line in or better is use mineral oil
in the trap. It takes a long time for oil to
evaporate.
I use this oil in my basement drains.
Bill <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:INnAe.676$mN1.530@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Hello. A new kitchen sink was just installed in an apartment that our
family
> owns. I installed drainage pipes to connect the drain on the new sink to
the
> existing drainage pipe that goes into the wall (then goes outside).
>
> It's the first time I've ever done plumbing so it was a bit of a learning
> experience. I noticed after it was done that I could have shortened the
> vertical distance of the amount of water in the p-trap by about 2.25".
The
> vertical distance of the water in the p-trap is 7" when I could have made
it
> about 4.75".
>
> This apartment unit is not rented and is kept vacant so that family
members
> can stay there when they come to town. My 82 year old mom, who's in good
> shape, will stay there overnight about once a week. I mention this to
give
> an idea how long the water will be staying in the p-trap.
>
> Is a vertical distance of 7" of water in the p-trap too much if the
kitchen
> sink will only be used about one day a week? Will that much water cause
> odors or attract mosquitoes? Should I shorten it to 4.75" to avoid those
> possible problems? Finally does anyone know if this is addressed in a
> plumbing code?
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
>
> Bill
>
>
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-28, 5:21 pm |
| they make some good shit for the waterless urinals that works fab.
"Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aNSdnVTvLYbZYHrfRVn-3g@adelphia.com...
> In all if you have any kind of trap that is not
> often used you do one of two things.
> Put a drip line in or better is use mineral oil
> in the trap. It takes a long time for oil to
> evaporate.
> I use this oil in my basement drains.
>
>
> Bill <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:INnAe.676$mN1.530@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> family
> the
> The
> it
> members
> give
> kitchen
>
>
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-28, 6:21 pm |
| First I heard of waterless urinals.
Ned Flanders <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:61bGe.2259$QX2.2229@trndny01...
> they make some good shit for the waterless urinals that works fab.
>
>
>
> "Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:aNSdnVTvLYbZYHrfRVn-3g@adelphia.com...
to[color=darkred]
learning[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
made[color=darkred]
good[color=darkred]
cause[color=darkred]
those[color=darkred]
>
>
| |
| Bob Wheatley 2005-07-28, 6:21 pm |
| "Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bfCdne2Scabl2XTfRVn-jw@adelphia.com...
> First I heard of waterless urinals.
>
>
Nasty little bastards.......
Bob Wheatley
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-28, 7:21 pm |
| Can I still put a Jane Fonda sticker on one ?
Bob Wheatley <xmaster.dancer@directway.com> wrote in message
news:11eiiae7bg9n0b8@corp.supernews.com...
> "Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bfCdne2Scabl2XTfRVn-jw@adelphia.com...
>
>
> Nasty little bastards.......
>
>
>
> Bob Wheatley
>
>
| |
| Bob Wheatley 2005-07-28, 7:21 pm |
| "Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6eudndO4SoybyXTfRVn-qw@adelphia.com...
> Can I still put a Jane Fonda sticker on one ?
>
That would be about the only way I would _want_ to use one.:> )
Great theory, stinks like piss in reality.
Here's a link for those interested:
http://www.waterless.com/
Bob Wheatley
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-29, 3:21 am |
|
Bob Wheatley <xmaster.dancer@directway.com> wrote in message
news:11eilv8sv1p16d2@corp.supernews.com...
> "Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6eudndO4SoybyXTfRVn-qw@adelphia.com...
>
>
>
> That would be about the only way I would _want_ to use one.:> )
>
> Great theory, stinks like piss in reality.
> Here's a link for those interested:
> http://www.waterless.com/
>
>
>
> Bob Wheatley
>
I hate smell of piss human and cat.
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-29, 8:21 pm |
| is that not the worst oder we face?? cat piss
i also hate mold.
"Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:UO2dnRnlmYuJI3TfRVn-tg@adelphia.com...
>
> Bob Wheatley <xmaster.dancer@directway.com> wrote in message
> news:11eilv8sv1p16d2@corp.supernews.com...
> I hate smell of piss human and cat.
>
>
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-30, 12:21 pm |
| The worstest is ...like in a school and in the boys room
they piss on the hot radiator !
PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
Dead people are up there too, but that's rare.
Cat piss..I can't go into a house with that smell.
I gag. Dry heaves.
Ned Flanders <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uuyGe.30$2y2.4@trndny02...
> is that not the worst oder we face?? cat piss
>
> i also hate mold.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:UO2dnRnlmYuJI3TfRVn-tg@adelphia.com...
>
>
| |
| Ned Flanders 2005-07-30, 10:21 pm |
| lol..once the local animal hospital called because the cremation machine was
broken. It was not really broken just over loaded and was unable to get any
draft going to light it off. They had let it set for a long time without
turning it on (guy was out sick who normally did it). I opened the door to
have a look inside and dead pets came pouring out. 2 cats and a dog fell on
the floor before i was able to slam door shut. There was a cats leg stuck
in the door and I had to push it back in to close the door all the way. I
picked up my tools and told the owner I was "out of here!". He convinced me
to stay by offering to clean the animals out for me to make the repair. I
got the thing fired up and it started to boil the blood and maggots. there
was stuff ooozeing out of the seams. That gave off an AWFULL smell.
Whenever I drive through town and they are cooking dead pets it makes me
sick.
"Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5r6dnegaRrhvDXbfRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
> The worstest is ...like in a school and in the boys room
> they piss on the hot radiator !
> PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
>
> Dead people are up there too, but that's rare.
>
> Cat piss..I can't go into a house with that smell.
> I gag. Dry heaves.
>
>
> Ned Flanders <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:uuyGe.30$2y2.4@trndny02...
>
>
| |
| Red Jacket 2005-07-30, 11:21 pm |
| I had an old biker buddy. The kind who would do
anything but work for a buck.
He would take a very short term job, like the one
at the crematorium.
Let me tell you, the high schools to oddballs were buying
up all kinds of bones. He sold skulls at $25.00 ea.
The guy had no shame, none.
I don't like being around any dead things let alone
be a dealer in that.
Ned Flanders <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:LaVGe.12245$QX2.462@trndny01...
> lol..once the local animal hospital called because the cremation machine
was
> broken. It was not really broken just over loaded and was unable to get
any
> draft going to light it off. They had let it set for a long time without
> turning it on (guy was out sick who normally did it). I opened the door
to
> have a look inside and dead pets came pouring out. 2 cats and a dog fell
on
> the floor before i was able to slam door shut. There was a cats leg stuck
> in the door and I had to push it back in to close the door all the way. I
> picked up my tools and told the owner I was "out of here!". He convinced
me
> to stay by offering to clean the animals out for me to make the repair. I
> got the thing fired up and it started to boil the blood and maggots. there
> was stuff ooozeing out of the seams. That gave off an AWFULL smell.
> Whenever I drive through town and they are cooking dead pets it makes me
> sick.
>
>
>
> "Red Jacket" <RedJacket@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5r6dnegaRrhvDXbfRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
>
>
|
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