Plumbing forum - shower diverter

Author

shower diverter

Chris O

2005-08-10, 9:21 pm

Hello...hope someone has an idea that might be helpful....

I just bought a new home. My master bath has the shower head, cold faucet
knob, hot faucet knob, diverter knob in between the H&C knobs, and one
outlet faucet at the bottom.

When we moved in, the diverter didn't send the hot water fully through to
the shower head; as such, we had cold showers, but hot feet, as the hot
water came out the lower faucet.

We had a plumber from our home warranty contractor come out and fix it
somewhat. Problem is, it still does have some water coming out (but not the
full on flow) from the bottom faucet - both hot and cold water. The plumber
told us that since we are on well water, this would likely be an issue
forever due to lower water pressure.

Is the plumber full of it and trying to avoid more costly and time consuming
repairs that they won't get "paid" for (under warranty), or is he right?

Also, if the plumber was correct and I'll just have to live with the
dripping, would it be possible for me to get a new outlet faucet with a
diverter "pull up thingy" that will block the flow of water, even if it
doesn't redirect it to the showerhead?

Thanks in advance for any advice,

Chris O

Ned Flanders

2005-08-10, 10:21 pm

this is by design on some valves. IE symmons s-96

"Chris O" <llbean71@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3a-dnZHiWbY_DGffRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> Hello...hope someone has an idea that might be helpful....
>
> I just bought a new home. My master bath has the shower head, cold faucet
> knob, hot faucet knob, diverter knob in between the H&C knobs, and one
> outlet faucet at the bottom.
>
> When we moved in, the diverter didn't send the hot water fully through to
> the shower head; as such, we had cold showers, but hot feet, as the hot
> water came out the lower faucet.
>
> We had a plumber from our home warranty contractor come out and fix it
> somewhat. Problem is, it still does have some water coming out (but not
> the full on flow) from the bottom faucet - both hot and cold water. The
> plumber told us that since we are on well water, this would likely be an
> issue forever due to lower water pressure.
>
> Is the plumber full of it and trying to avoid more costly and time
> consuming repairs that they won't get "paid" for (under warranty), or is
> he right?
>
> Also, if the plumber was correct and I'll just have to live with the
> dripping, would it be possible for me to get a new outlet faucet with a
> diverter "pull up thingy" that will block the flow of water, even if it
> doesn't redirect it to the showerhead?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice,
>
> Chris O
>

PipeDown

2005-08-11, 5:21 pm

The dripping prevents vacuum lock which could prevent the valve from
automatically opening when you turn off the water. You can certainly go to
a hardware store, buy a new spigot, and screw it in place of the old one but
it will work the same.

What I don't get is why you have a diverter valve knob AND a diverter pullup
on the tub faucet. Did the plumber change out the whole setup for a single
knob type pressure balanced valve or did he just clean the valves and
replace the carterages in the existing fixture?

The plumber saw your setup not me so I won't say he was wrong. Decreased
pressure may cause incomplete closure of such a popup diverter but it
depends on how much drip you are talking about and that info I lack.

If you don't like the way your valve works there are better alternatives but
it won't be covered in your warranty.

"Ned Flanders" <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:X9xKe.5644$lK2.2837@trndny01...
> this is by design on some valves. IE symmons s-96
>
>
> "Chris O" <llbean71@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:3a-dnZHiWbY_DGffRVn-gg@comcast.com...
>
>

Jeff Wisnia

2005-08-11, 8:21 pm

Chris O wrote:

> Hello...hope someone has an idea that might be helpful....
>
> I just bought a new home. My master bath has the shower head, cold faucet
> knob, hot faucet knob, diverter knob in between the H&C knobs, and one
> outlet faucet at the bottom.
>
> When we moved in, the diverter didn't send the hot water fully through to
> the shower head; as such, we had cold showers, but hot feet, as the hot
> water came out the lower faucet.
>
> We had a plumber from our home warranty contractor come out and fix it
> somewhat. Problem is, it still does have some water coming out (but not the
> full on flow) from the bottom faucet - both hot and cold water. The plumber
> told us that since we are on well water, this would likely be an issue
> forever due to lower water pressure.
>
> Is the plumber full of it and trying to avoid more costly and time consuming
> repairs that they won't get "paid" for (under warranty), or is he right?
>
> Also, if the plumber was correct and I'll just have to live with the
> dripping, would it be possible for me to get a new outlet faucet with a
> diverter "pull up thingy" that will block the flow of water, even if it
> doesn't redirect it to the showerhead?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice,
>
> Chris O
>
>

I'm no lawyer, and never even played one on TV, but it seems to me that
if by "new home" you mean that you bought a BRAND NEW home, you've got a
right to expect what an average person would consider "normal"
performnce from something as commonplace as a diverting tub/shower
setup. And, there are certainly ones which don't give a fig about lower
water presures. The builder should be responsible for correcting the
problem even if it means having to tear things out and installing a
better diverter valve.

I don't know what your words "some water" mean with respect to what's
coming out of the tub spout (I expect that's the thing you are calling
an "outlet faucet") but if it's anything more than a dribble then the
diverter valve isn't working as well as a "proper one" could.

If it isn't a brand new house, then you'll likely have a problem
convincing the warranty guys to install something new which works better
that what's in there now - - - unless maybe you can show them an
identical brand/model diverter in another location which is doing its
thing much better than yours does, and ask them to explain why they
can't fix or replace yours so it works as well as the one you just
showed them. (Good luck with that...)

I wouldn't try adding a spout with a built in "pull up" diverter valve
to your setup. Depending on the "dribble rate you're getting now, you'd
have to hold the pull knob up for quite a while before the pipe and
spout filled enough to keep the spout valve closed by itself.

HTH,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Ned Flanders

2005-08-11, 8:21 pm

tell us what kind of valves. you might ber able to take dirverter apart and
clean it out. there might be a piece of solder or something in it. it
sounds like you have seperate valves for each function they are all the
same. the dirverter valve is prob not going all the way in one direction,
hot water gets out first in a pressure drop equal chance situation im pretty
sure.
"PipeDown" <nowhere@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5PNKe.4389$WD.2012@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The dripping prevents vacuum lock which could prevent the valve from
> automatically opening when you turn off the water. You can certainly go
> to a hardware store, buy a new spigot, and screw it in place of the old
> one but it will work the same.
>
> What I don't get is why you have a diverter valve knob AND a diverter
> pullup on the tub faucet. Did the plumber change out the whole setup for
> a single knob type pressure balanced valve or did he just clean the valves
> and replace the carterages in the existing fixture?
>
> The plumber saw your setup not me so I won't say he was wrong. Decreased
> pressure may cause incomplete closure of such a popup diverter but it
> depends on how much drip you are talking about and that info I lack.
>
> If you don't like the way your valve works there are better alternatives
> but it won't be covered in your warranty.
>
>
>
>
> "Ned Flanders" <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:X9xKe.5644$lK2.2837@trndny01...
>
>

Chris O

2005-08-13, 11:21 pm

"PipeDown" <nowhere@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5PNKe.4389$WD.2012@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The dripping prevents vacuum lock which could prevent the valve from
> automatically opening when you turn off the water. You can certainly go
> to a hardware store, buy a new spigot, and screw it in place of the old
> one but it will work the same.
>
> What I don't get is why you have a diverter valve knob AND a diverter
> pullup on the tub faucet.

I don't. I was asking if *adding* the diverter pullup type of spout would
help eliminate the water flow from the spout.

Did the plumber change out the whole setup for a single
> knob type pressure balanced valve or did he just clean the valves and
> replace the carterages in the existing fixture?
>

To my knowledge, the plumber replaced the stem, washers, etc.

> The plumber saw your setup not me so I won't say he was wrong. Decreased
> pressure may cause incomplete closure of such a popup diverter but it
> depends on how much drip you are talking about and that info I lack.
>

The amount of water "dripping" from the spout (when the diverter is turned
to direct water to the shower) will fill up a 16 oz cup within 20-30
seconds. So, it's not really a drip, but not full force flow either.

Thanks for your feedback, and anything else you may be able to add,

chris

> If you don't like the way your valve works there are better alternatives
> but it won't be covered in your warranty.
>
>
>
>
> "Ned Flanders" <mrstinky@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:X9xKe.5644$lK2.2837@trndny01...
>
>

Chris O

2005-08-13, 11:21 pm

> I'm no lawyer, and never even played one on TV, but it seems to me that
> if by "new home" you mean that you bought a BRAND NEW home, you've got a
> right to expect what an average person would consider "normal" performnce
> from something as commonplace as a diverting tub/shower setup. And, there
> are certainly ones which don't give a fig about lower water presures. The
> builder should be responsible for correcting the problem even if it means
> having to tear things out and installing a better diverter valve.
>

No, no, no!

"New" to me home. The house is 26 years old.

> I don't know what your words "some water" mean with respect to what's
> coming out of the tub spout (I expect that's the thing you are calling an
> "outlet faucet")

Yeah, that thing!

but if it's anything more than a dribble then the
> diverter valve isn't working as well as a "proper one" could.
>
> If it isn't a brand new house, then you'll likely have a problem
> convincing the warranty guys to install something new which works better
> that what's in there now - - - unless maybe you can show them an identical
> brand/model diverter in another location which is doing its thing much
> better than yours does, and ask them to explain why they can't fix or
> replace yours so it works as well as the one you just showed them. (Good
> luck with that...)
>
> I wouldn't try adding a spout with a built in "pull up" diverter valve to
> your setup. Depending on the "dribble rate you're getting now, you'd have
> to hold the pull knob up for quite a while before the pipe and spout
> filled enough to keep the spout valve closed by itself.

It will fill up a 12 oz cup within 20 seconds or so. If it continues to be a
pain in my arse, I might just try to buy a new spout for a few bucks with a
diverter pull up.

Thanks for your feedback!

chris

>
> HTH,
>
> Jeff
> --
> Jeffry Wisnia
>
> (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
>
> "Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Chris O

2005-08-13, 11:21 pm

Thanks everyone for your help. I think the best thing for me to do right now
is to simply wait a few weeks. Long story short, the EPA is hooking my
neghborhood up to public water later this month at no cost to the
homeowners. Hopefully, with no longer being on well water, the water
pressure will improve, perhaps eliminating the "low water pressure" problem
the plumber cited as being the reason the spout still runs. If it continues,
I'll be back in September for more help!

Thanks again,

chris

"Chris O" <llbean71@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3a-dnZHiWbY_DGffRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> Hello...hope someone has an idea that might be helpful....
>
> I just bought a new home. My master bath has the shower head, cold faucet
> knob, hot faucet knob, diverter knob in between the H&C knobs, and one
> outlet faucet at the bottom.
>
> When we moved in, the diverter didn't send the hot water fully through to
> the shower head; as such, we had cold showers, but hot feet, as the hot
> water came out the lower faucet.
>
> We had a plumber from our home warranty contractor come out and fix it
> somewhat. Problem is, it still does have some water coming out (but not
> the full on flow) from the bottom faucet - both hot and cold water. The
> plumber told us that since we are on well water, this would likely be an
> issue forever due to lower water pressure.
>
> Is the plumber full of it and trying to avoid more costly and time
> consuming repairs that they won't get "paid" for (under warranty), or is
> he right?
>
> Also, if the plumber was correct and I'll just have to live with the
> dripping, would it be possible for me to get a new outlet faucet with a
> diverter "pull up thingy" that will block the flow of water, even if it
> doesn't redirect it to the showerhead?
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice,
>
> Chris O
>

PipeDown

2005-08-15, 9:21 pm

A spout diverter is supposed to drip, a knob diverter should not drip. If
the stem and washer are new, the valve seat may be worn or damaged or there
may be another o ring or there may be rust or solder debris lodged in a hard
to flush location. Make sure he replaced the parts not just pop a few
o-rings in and say it should be good enough.

Since you are dealing with a home warranty, you can try and say the repair
was unsatisfactory due to internal damage or wear and request a new fixture
but it will be a tough battle - read your policy to see if it is even
covered to that extent, there may be exceptions.

I'd probably be happy with what I got for my $10 co-pay and plan to upgrade
the fixture later.

"Chris O" <llbean71@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B9KdnTOly7G5NWPfRVn-qg@comcast.com...
>
> "PipeDown" <nowhere@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:5PNKe.4389$WD.2012@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> I don't. I was asking if *adding* the diverter pullup type of spout would
> help eliminate the water flow from the spout.
>
>
> Did the plumber change out the whole setup for a single
>
> To my knowledge, the plumber replaced the stem, washers, etc.
>
>
>
>
> The amount of water "dripping" from the spout (when the diverter is turned
> to direct water to the shower) will fill up a 16 oz cup within 20-30
> seconds. So, it's not really a drip, but not full force flow either.
>
> Thanks for your feedback, and anything else you may be able to add,
>
> chris
>
>
>
>
>
>

PipeDown

2005-08-18, 7:21 pm

>"I don't. I was asking if *adding* the diverter pullup type of spout would
>help eliminate the water flow from the spout."

Now I get it, you want to know if you just stop using the knob diverter and
use a pullup spout instead will that help. Probably dribble less than you
described and probably get a better mixing. Just plug up the existing spout
with your finger and see if the shower runs with good temp mixing, if it
does, the pullup may just work pretty well compared to the alternative.

If you can pull a spout you should also be able to handle pulling the core
out of the diverter, turn on the water and flush the valve from the front,
reassemble and see if it works better.

"Chris O" <llbean71@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B9KdnTOly7G5NWPfRVn-qg@comcast.com...
>
> "PipeDown" <nowhere@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:5PNKe.4389$WD.2012@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> I don't. I was asking if *adding* the diverter pullup type of spout would
> help eliminate the water flow from the spout.
>
>
> Did the plumber change out the whole setup for a single
>
> To my knowledge, the plumber replaced the stem, washers, etc.
>
>
>
>
> The amount of water "dripping" from the spout (when the diverter is turned
> to direct water to the shower) will fill up a 16 oz cup within 20-30
> seconds. So, it's not really a drip, but not full force flow either.
>
> Thanks for your feedback, and anything else you may be able to add,
>
> chris
>
>
>
>
>
>

Blackbeard

2005-08-20, 9:21 pm

Well maybe nobody else here wants to say it, but I sure as hell will

So your plumber said "that since you are on well water, this would
likely be an issue forever due to lower water pressure."

And you bought it?

I guess the first thing I'd wonder is why "if that statement is true"
are you having the problem ONLY on this one tub valve?

Is it sounding the least like bullshit?

So WHY did your plumber install a cheapie tub-spout with a diverter
that didn't really solve the problem?
A: He's real fucking busy and it was a quick fix
B: He's real fucking stupid and it was a quick fix
C: He's real fucking stupid and doesn't know how to install a tub
valve.
D: He had zero access and he doesn't want to fuck with it..so he found
an alternative solution.
E: The homeowner followed him around sweating over costs and the
plumber figured out a cheaper "solution" because it was obvious "this
homeowner" wasn't going to pay the price to fix it right.

It already seems to be pointing to option E. You're already talking
about him coming back and fixing the damn thing on warranty. Instead,
tell him what he tried didn't work....so ask if he'll re-assess the
problem and give you a little break on the first bill because his
repair didn't solve the problem.

Otherwise, your plumber is going to tell you to stuff it up your XXX
because he's not going to come to your house and rip out your valve
and replace a $125 valve at HIS COST and he's not going to spend
another hour or so trouble-shooting the problem with your well pump.

That's what homeowners do...they follow us around worried about "how
much it's going to cost...and they're so stressed about price that the
plumber starts thinkin' "this guy doesn't have any money...and I can't
afford to work for free....and those "followers" are the ones who
think I'm supposed to PAY to have their sheetrock fixed...all for the
same price.

Yes, there are some crooked plumbers. The guy you hired may be a
jackleg...don't know the man but the story he gave you is bullshit.

But all of out here are crawling under filthy houses and working in
human waste and you love us when we fix your shit and you hate us when
we give you the bill. Fuck that bullshit buddy. The plumbers ain't the
fucking crooks....you wanna find crooks, try homeowner and
contractors..

For the record, you need to replace that old-fashioned piece-of-shit
valve. Between the cost of materials and etc., it'll probably cost you
anywhere from $400-800 depending on access and other obstacles that
might impede his ability to do the work. You'll probably spend another
$200 to get man to come out and fix your wall. Expect to spend a
grand. Then be happy when you get away for less than $700 for the
entire job. If you don't have the cash, step the fuck off tightwad
motherfucker

Chris O

2005-08-22, 6:21 pm

Thank you for your feedback. It was quite helpful. Thank you also for
following and reading the thread so closely. Your info, insight, and
intellect were also helpful.

Chris

"Blackbeard" <michael_curtis_young@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:3pffg1tl15eaikkg66amfroe8gebbd1gkl@4ax.com...
> Well maybe nobody else here wants to say it, but I sure as hell will
>
> So your plumber said "that since you are on well water, this would
> likely be an issue forever due to lower water pressure."
>
> And you bought it?
>
> I guess the first thing I'd wonder is why "if that statement is true"
> are you having the problem ONLY on this one tub valve?
>
> Is it sounding the least like bullshit?
>
>
> So WHY did your plumber install a cheapie tub-spout with a diverter
> that didn't really solve the problem?
> A: He's real fucking busy and it was a quick fix
> B: He's real fucking stupid and it was a quick fix
> C: He's real fucking stupid and doesn't know how to install a tub
> valve.
> D: He had zero access and he doesn't want to fuck with it..so he found
> an alternative solution.
> E: The homeowner followed him around sweating over costs and the
> plumber figured out a cheaper "solution" because it was obvious "this
> homeowner" wasn't going to pay the price to fix it right.
>
> It already seems to be pointing to option E. You're already talking
> about him coming back and fixing the damn thing on warranty. Instead,
> tell him what he tried didn't work....so ask if he'll re-assess the
> problem and give you a little break on the first bill because his
> repair didn't solve the problem.
>
> Otherwise, your plumber is going to tell you to stuff it up your XXX
> because he's not going to come to your house and rip out your valve
> and replace a $125 valve at HIS COST and he's not going to spend
> another hour or so trouble-shooting the problem with your well pump.
>
> That's what homeowners do...they follow us around worried about "how
> much it's going to cost...and they're so stressed about price that the
> plumber starts thinkin' "this guy doesn't have any money...and I can't
> afford to work for free....and those "followers" are the ones who
> think I'm supposed to PAY to have their sheetrock fixed...all for the
> same price.
>
> Yes, there are some crooked plumbers. The guy you hired may be a
> jackleg...don't know the man but the story he gave you is bullshit.
>
> But all of out here are crawling under filthy houses and working in
> human waste and you love us when we fix your shit and you hate us when
> we give you the bill. Fuck that bullshit buddy. The plumbers ain't the
> fucking crooks....you wanna find crooks, try homeowner and
> contractors..
>
> For the record, you need to replace that old-fashioned piece-of-shit
> valve. Between the cost of materials and etc., it'll probably cost you
> anywhere from $400-800 depending on access and other obstacles that
> might impede his ability to do the work. You'll probably spend another
> $200 to get man to come out and fix your wall. Expect to spend a
> grand. Then be happy when you get away for less than $700 for the
> entire job. If you don't have the cash, step the fuck off tightwad
> motherfucker

Mike Grooms

2005-08-23, 4:21 pm

"Chris O"

Touche'

Ned Flanders

2005-08-23, 9:21 pm

Touche'...Touche' why Touche' I am sorry but I don't understand the use of
that word here.
dont you mean NP or your welcome?

"Mike Grooms" <ironmike@fuse.net> wrote in message
news:99886$430b7028$d8c489d4$24347@FUSE.NET...
>
> "Chris O"
>
> Touche'
>
>

Mike Grooms

2005-08-24, 9:21 am

"Ned Flanders"

> dont you mean NP or your welcome?

If I meant it, I'd have written "you're welcome." I typed "touche'"
since this fellow picked up on Blackbeard's gentle vocabulary. I picked up
on Blackbeard's $400-$800 price for replacing a tub valve.

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