Electrical Engineering - 500 mcm to 2 gauge

Author

500 mcm to 2 gauge

Phillip

2005-07-18, 6:25 pm

I am helping a friend with a new house and here is the situation from the
meter (100 amp) to the house (100 amp)
is 600 feet and we calculate we need 600 mcm and the problem is that 500 mcm
will not fit into a 100 amp breaker or lugs for a 100 amp panel so we want
to put a junction box to size the 500mcm to 2 gauge wire does anyone see a
problems with this...

SQLit

2005-07-18, 11:25 pm

"Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_iUCe.718$Fk4.203@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

quote:

> I am helping a friend with a new house and here is the situation from the
> meter (100 amp) to the house (100 amp)
> is 600 feet and we calculate we need 600 mcm and the problem is that 500

mcm

quote:

> will not fit into a 100 amp breaker or lugs for a 100 amp panel so we want
> to put a junction box to size the 500mcm to 2 gauge wire does anyone see a
> problems with this...

Ya I see lots of problems. For starters the grounding is 600 feet away.

Call the serving utility and move the meter closer to the home. Why pay for
the wire when they will install it for free.

http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html
try this calculator

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

2005-07-18, 11:25 pm

SQLit wrote:

quote:

>
> "Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:_iUCe.718$Fk4.203@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> mcm

Best thing to do is to put a handhole in the ground just outside the
house service entrance. Terminate the 500 Kcmil conductors in a set of
terminal blocks, similar to what the power company uses when they serve
multiple houses at the end of one secondary run. Then, run the #2
through appropriately sized conduit up the wall and into the panel.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> Ya I see lots of problems. For starters the grounding is 600 feet away.

Not necessarily. Its possible to ground at the service entrance (the
house) rather than at the meter.

quote:

> Call the serving utility and move the meter closer to the home. Why pay for
> the wire when they will install it for free.

I'm guessing that the OP priced the difference between a 600 plus foot
service (utility wires to the meter) and providing his own wire from the
meter to the house. Our local utility can charge as much as $25 per foot
for their system.

quote:

> http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html
> try this calculator

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Time is the best teacher; Unfortunately it kills all its students.

Dean Hoffman

2005-07-18, 11:25 pm

On 7/18/05 5:04 PM, in article OHVCe.48$Oa2.13773@news.uswest.net, "SQLit"
<sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:

quote:

>
> "Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:_iUCe.718$Fk4.203@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> mcm
>
> Ya I see lots of problems. For starters the grounding is 600 feet away.
>
> Call the serving utility and move the meter closer to the home. Why pay for
> the wire when they will install it for free.
>
> http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html
> try this calculator

So 3 wires or 4 from the meter to the house with today's electronics?

Dean

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phil-news-nospam@ipal.net

2005-07-18, 11:25 pm

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:04:26 -0700 SQLit <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
|
| "Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> wrote in message
| news:_iUCe.718$Fk4.203@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
|> I am helping a friend with a new house and here is the situation from the
|> meter (100 amp) to the house (100 amp)
|> is 600 feet and we calculate we need 600 mcm and the problem is that 500
| mcm
|> will not fit into a 100 amp breaker or lugs for a 100 amp panel so we want
|> to put a junction box to size the 500mcm to 2 gauge wire does anyone see a
|> problems with this...
|
| Ya I see lots of problems. For starters the grounding is 600 feet away.
|
| Call the serving utility and move the meter closer to the home. Why pay for
| the wire when they will install it for free.

And why pay for warming that wire.

OTOH, some utilities refuse to put meters very far offroad, depending on
conditions.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phillip

2005-07-19, 6:25 pm

"SQLit" <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:OHVCe.48$Oa2.13773@news.uswest.net...

quote:

>
> "Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:_iUCe.718$Fk4.203@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> mcm
>
> Ya I see lots of problems. For starters the grounding is 600 feet away.

We are Going to ground the meter separate from the house both will have
separate ground rods

quote:

>
> Call the serving utility and move the meter closer to the home. Why pay
> for
> the wire when they will install it for free.

They want $11.00 per foot and then money for the transformer and ect...

quote:

>
> http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html
> try this calculator
>
>
>

Phillip

2005-07-19, 6:25 pm

"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496@INinVALebrasIDka.com> wrote in message
news:BF01A907.6F899%dh0496@INinVALebrasIDka.com...

quote:

> On 7/18/05 5:04 PM, in article OHVCe.48$Oa2.13773@news.uswest.net, "SQLit"
> <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
>
>
> So 3 wires or 4 from the meter to the house with today's electronics?
>
> Dean

2 runs of 500 (Hot) and 1 of 350 (Nuteral)
And the house will be grounded at the house....

quote:

>
>
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> News==----
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Phillip

2005-07-19, 6:25 pm

<phil-news-nospam@ipal.net> wrote in message
news:dbhgad318e2@news2.newsguy.com...

quote:

> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:04:26 -0700 SQLit <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
> |
> | "Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> wrote in message
> | news:_iUCe.718$Fk4.203@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> |> I am helping a friend with a new house and here is the situation from
> the
> |> meter (100 amp) to the house (100 amp)
> |> is 600 feet and we calculate we need 600 mcm and the problem is that
> 500
> | mcm
> |> will not fit into a 100 amp breaker or lugs for a 100 amp panel so we
> want
> |> to put a junction box to size the 500mcm to 2 gauge wire does anyone
> see a
> |> problems with this...
> |
> | Ya I see lots of problems. For starters the grounding is 600 feet away.
> |
> | Call the serving utility and move the meter closer to the home. Why pay
> for
> | the wire when they will install it for free.
>
> And why pay for warming that wire.
>
> OTOH, some utilities refuse to put meters very far offroad, depending on
> conditions.

His neighbor is 1100+ feet from his meter

quote:

>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/
> http://ham.org/ |
> | (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/
> http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Michael Moroney

2005-07-19, 11:25 pm

"Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> writes:

quote:

>His neighbor is 1100+ feet from his meter

Holy voltage drop, Batman! I didn't think any utility had 120/240V runs
anywhere near that long.

Near where my father lives, there are several new McMansions quite a ways
back from the road. The feed to them is a bit unusual; it's along a road
with old delta wired service at a fairly low voltage (small insulators).
They put up a transformer for each house with the primary connected to two
hots and the secondary has one lead grounded and the other apparently at a
higher voltage, this goes underground. There must be a second pad mounted
transformer at the house. I assume this is for a planned upgrade to a
higher voltage wye service in the near future, when this is done they
eliminate the first transformer and don't have to touch the second.

Dean Hoffman

2005-07-19, 11:25 pm

On 7/19/05 4:30 PM, in article dbjrcs$llj$1@pcls4.std.com, "Michael Moroney"
<moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:

quote:

> "Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> writes:
>
>
> Holy voltage drop, Batman! I didn't think any utility had 120/240V runs
> anywhere near that long.
>
> Near where my father lives, there are several new McMansions quite a ways
> back from the road. The feed to them is a bit unusual; it's along a road
> with old delta wired service at a fairly low voltage (small insulators).
> They put up a transformer for each house with the primary connected to two
> hots and the secondary has one lead grounded and the other apparently at a
> higher voltage, this goes underground. There must be a second pad mounted
> transformer at the house. I assume this is for a planned upgrade to a
> higher voltage wye service in the near future, when this is done they
> eliminate the first transformer and don't have to touch the second.

One of the local REAs has been running regular line voltage to a pad
mounted transformer located by the house. This is in contrast to the
overhead lines with a pole mounted transformer in the middle of the farmyard
from earlier times.
Even most farmers don't live 1100 feet from the road.

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Phillip

2005-07-24, 9:03 pm

"Dean Hoffman" <dh0496@INinVALebrasIDka.com> wrote in message
news:BF02ED8D.6F9D2%dh0496@INinVALebrasIDka.com...
> On 7/19/05 4:30 PM, in article dbjrcs$llj$1@pcls4.std.com, "Michael
> Moroney"
> <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:
>
>
> One of the local REAs has been running regular line voltage to a pad
> mounted transformer located by the house. This is in contrast to the
> overhead lines with a pole mounted transformer in the middle of the
> farmyard
> from earlier times.
> Even most farmers don't live 1100 feet from the road.

I did not say he was 1100 feet off the rod but he is 1100 feet from his
meter which is on my friend property...

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net

2005-07-24, 9:03 pm

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:30:04 +0000 (UTC) Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote:

| "Phillip" <phillipdevoll@comcast.net> writes:
|
|>His neighbor is 1100+ feet from his meter
|
| Holy voltage drop, Batman! I didn't think any utility had 120/240V runs
| anywhere near that long.

There are a lot of places in West Virginia even longer than that. An
uncle of mine back in the 1960's had a place with power going over
3000 feet to his home. He did have the meter at his house, through.
The road up to the house was good. But I've heard if the road is not
going to be maintained or is too long, they want the meter located
closer to the main road, and will just put one in if they have to.

| Near where my father lives, there are several new McMansions quite a ways
| back from the road. The feed to them is a bit unusual; it's along a road
| with old delta wired service at a fairly low voltage (small insulators).
| They put up a transformer for each house with the primary connected to two
| hots and the secondary has one lead grounded and the other apparently at a
| higher voltage, this goes underground. There must be a second pad mounted
| transformer at the house. I assume this is for a planned upgrade to a
| higher voltage wye service in the near future, when this is done they
| eliminate the first transformer and don't have to touch the second.

Must be running somewhere between 480 and 2400 volts to the next transformer.
I'd rather take the service feed at 480 to 600 if I could get it that way.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

2005-07-24, 9:03 pm

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
>
[snip]

> There are a lot of places in West Virginia even longer than that. An
> uncle of mine back in the 1960's had a place with power going over
> 3000 feet to his home. He did have the meter at his house, through.
> The road up to the house was good. But I've heard if the road is not
> going to be maintained or is too long, they want the meter located
> closer to the main road, and will just put one in if they have to.

Its also a matter of cost. Our local power co will put a line in almost
anywhere. For $25 a foot. Since they (the utility) have an obligation to
maintain voltage at the metering point, they don't run long services.
There's nothing stopping a customer from increasing their load from a
tiny cabin with a wood stove to an all electric house. Then, once the
service was established, the utility would be obligated to upgrade at
their own cost.

I have seen an installation with a 240V service to a meter pole at the
road. The service fed a 240-2400V transformer and overhead primary line
(all customer owned), which ran a mile or so back through the woods to a
step-down transformer.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
How do I set a laser printer to stun?

Michael Moroney

2005-07-24, 9:03 pm

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net writes:

>| Near where my father lives, there are several new McMansions quite a ways
>| back from the road. The feed to them is a bit unusual; it's along a road
>| with old delta wired service at a fairly low voltage (small insulators).
>| They put up a transformer for each house with the primary connected to two
>| hots and the secondary has one lead grounded and the other apparently at a
>| higher voltage, this goes underground. There must be a second pad mounted
>| transformer at the house. I assume this is for a planned upgrade to a
>| higher voltage wye service in the near future, when this is done they
>| eliminate the first transformer and don't have to touch the second.

>Must be running somewhere between 480 and 2400 volts to the next transformer.
>I'd rather take the service feed at 480 to 600 if I could get it that way.

I believe the feed to the pad transformer is at the full line voltage for
whatever voltage they plan to upgrade to, and they have been upgrading in
that area. There are two reasons I say that: The underground feeder
appears exactly the same as that used to feed a pad transformer directly
from the MV distribution lines, with a substantial bushing. The first
transformer can also has a substantial bushing on its secondary (larger
than the two on its primary), and in fact appears to be the same can used
in partially upgraded areas, where the main road has been upgraded to Y
and a side street still uses the old lower voltage delta (single phase,
two wires). An identical looking can converts between them, but in this
case the primary and secondary are reversed.

I have a fuse assembly from a storm-damaged pole in the same area (crews
didn't clean up well) which reads 4800V. Since the old insulators in the
area are all the same size I guess this is what the old delta voltage is.

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net

2005-07-24, 9:03 pm

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:55:10 -0700 Paul Hovnanian P.E. <Paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

|> There are a lot of places in West Virginia even longer than that. An
|> uncle of mine back in the 1960's had a place with power going over
|> 3000 feet to his home. He did have the meter at his house, through.
|> The road up to the house was good. But I've heard if the road is not
|> going to be maintained or is too long, they want the meter located
|> closer to the main road, and will just put one in if they have to.
|
| Its also a matter of cost. Our local power co will put a line in almost
| anywhere. For $25 a foot. Since they (the utility) have an obligation to
| maintain voltage at the metering point, they don't run long services.
| There's nothing stopping a customer from increasing their load from a
| tiny cabin with a wood stove to an all electric house. Then, once the
| service was established, the utility would be obligated to upgrade at
| their own cost.
|
| I have seen an installation with a 240V service to a meter pole at the
| road. The service fed a 240-2400V transformer and overhead primary line
| (all customer owned), which ran a mile or so back through the woods to a
| step-down transformer.

What codes are applicable to customer owned MV? Sounds like a good way
to avoid the voltage drop. But guess who has to trim the trees.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

2005-07-24, 9:03 pm

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
>
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:55:10 -0700 Paul Hovnanian P.E. <Paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>
> |> There are a lot of places in West Virginia even longer than that. An
> |> uncle of mine back in the 1960's had a place with power going over
> |> 3000 feet to his home. He did have the meter at his house, through.
> |> The road up to the house was good. But I've heard if the road is not
> |> going to be maintained or is too long, they want the meter located
> |> closer to the main road, and will just put one in if they have to.
> |
> | Its also a matter of cost. Our local power co will put a line in almost
> | anywhere. For $25 a foot. Since they (the utility) have an obligation to
> | maintain voltage at the metering point, they don't run long services.
> | There's nothing stopping a customer from increasing their load from a
> | tiny cabin with a wood stove to an all electric house. Then, once the
> | service was established, the utility would be obligated to upgrade at
> | their own cost.
> |
> | I have seen an installation with a 240V service to a meter pole at the
> | road. The service fed a 240-2400V transformer and overhead primary line
> | (all customer owned), which ran a mile or so back through the woods to a
> | step-down transformer.
>
> What codes are applicable to customer owned MV? Sounds like a good way
> to avoid the voltage drop. But guess who has to trim the trees.

In Washington State, the NEC. Utilities are goverened by the NESC, which
covers MV and HV line construction in much greater detail. The NEC
references the NESC for guidance for systems of over 600V.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
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