Electrical Engineering - Capacity of Duracell AA cell versus NiMH

Author

Capacity of Duracell AA cell versus NiMH

Sammy

2005-08-15, 11:21 am

How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
2100 mAh)?

I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

bob.dung@gmail.com

2005-08-15, 11:21 am

In my sony digital camera, a P100, crap..!
A set of duracell lasted about three hours last work night out. I
wasn't counting flashes and pics etc, just general use but the sony
supplied batteries last at least twice as long, probably alot more.

Ian Stirling

2005-08-15, 12:21 pm

In uk.d-i-y Sammy <noone@no-where.com> wrote:
> How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
> or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
> 2100 mAh)?
>
>
> I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
> work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

Basically, unless the drain is very small, not well.

Mathew J. Newton

2005-08-15, 12:21 pm

Sammy wrote:
> How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
> or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
> 2100 mAh)?
>
>
> I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
> work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

According to http://www.battery-force.co.uk/detail_DUAAXX004A.html a
Duracell 'Plus' AA has a capacity of 2600mAh however as anyone with a
high-current device like a digital camera will know there is *far* more
to 'real world' capacity than simply comparing this figure.

What is the context behind your question?

Mathew

Christian McArdle

2005-08-15, 2:21 pm

> How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
> or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
> 2100 mAh)?

It depends on current drain. Alkalines are vastly superior in low drain
appliances, such as clocks or smoke alarms, to the point where NiMH would be
useless. In high drain appliances, such as DVD players with integral
screens, the alkaline would be in chocolate teapot territory.

The changeover point where one is better than the other is very much in the
direction of low drain. Any appliance that uses remotely much electricity
will much prefer NiMH, even with the lower nominal voltage. In fact, the
alkaline will produce a lower voltage for most of its discharge cycle in any
medium to high usage application. 1.5V is only available when the battery is
totally fresh and not being discharged to any extent. Any depletion in the
cell, or any current drain will result in rapid voltage drop, often even to
0.8V or so. This doesn't happen with NiMH. They can produce almost full
voltage until very nearly depleted, even at high current levels.

Christian.

Dave Plowman (News)

2005-08-15, 2:21 pm

In article <96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156>,
Sammy <noone@no-where.com> wrote:
> How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
> or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
> 2100 mAh)?

> I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
> work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

It really depends on the current being drawn. With high current devices
which would flatten the NiMH in say an hour of continuous use, the
Duracell might just die earlier. Go to say 6 hours of continuous use, and
the Duracell will last about 1/3rd longer.

--
*Therapy is expensive, poppin' bubble wrap is cheap! You choose.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Platt

2005-08-15, 3:21 pm

In article <96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156>,
Sammy <noone@no-where.com> wrote:

>How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
>or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
>2100 mAh)?

They're roughly comparable, under conditions of moderate load (e.g.
100 mA or so). The Duracell performance spec indicates that a MN1500
AA alkaline cell has a service life of around 20-22 hours at 100 mA...
and this assumes that the battery can be drawn down all the way to 0.8
volts per cell. This work out to around 2000-2200 mAh, and this
figure seems to be good for discharge rates from trickle-load up to
around 400 mA.

The service life of an alkaline decreases significantly under
conditions of rapid discharge. At a 1-ampere rate, the MN1500 reaches
the 0.8-volt level after only 1 hour, resulting in a useful capacity
of only 1000 mAh. I assume that losses from the cell's internal
resistance (stated to be "usually less than 1 ohm") are responsible
for the reduction in capacity.

>I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
>work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

If they don't, they'd have problems with alkalines in the latter
portion of the discharge curve, too.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

2005-08-15, 6:21 pm

Dave Platt wrote:
>
> In article <96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156>,
> Sammy <noone@no-where.com> wrote:
>
>
> They're roughly comparable, under conditions of moderate load (e.g.
> 100 mA or so). The Duracell performance spec indicates that a MN1500
> AA alkaline cell has a service life of around 20-22 hours at 100 mA...
> and this assumes that the battery can be drawn down all the way to 0.8
> volts per cell. This work out to around 2000-2200 mAh, and this
> figure seems to be good for discharge rates from trickle-load up to
> around 400 mA.
>
> The service life of an alkaline decreases significantly under
> conditions of rapid discharge. At a 1-ampere rate, the MN1500 reaches
> the 0.8-volt level after only 1 hour, resulting in a useful capacity
> of only 1000 mAh. I assume that losses from the cell's internal
> resistance (stated to be "usually less than 1 ohm") are responsible
> for the reduction in capacity.
>
>
> If they don't, they'd have problems with alkalines in the latter
> portion of the discharge curve, too.

All good info.

I have an AA NiMH with a specified capacity of 1700 mAh. Some NiMHs go
up to 2400 mAh. Alkaline AA cells can go up to 3000 mAh or more.

One thing to keep in mind is that the capacity vs voltage
characteristics of alkaline and NiMH cells differ significantly.
Alkaline cells' voltage ramps down slowly whereas NiMH cells hold a
stable voltage until they reach a few percent charge, then their voltage
drops rapidly. The load equipment's tolerance for low voltage will
affect the amount of power it can use from each battery type.

This effect also leads to the annoying behavior that some equipment has
where the battery appears to go dead very rapidly following the 'low
battery' indication or the battery level bar graph begins to show a low
level.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Error reading FAT record: Try the SKINNY one? (Y/N)

Bob Smith $UK$

2005-08-15, 7:21 pm

"Sammy" <noone@no-where.com> wrote in message
news:96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156...
> How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
> or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
> 2100 mAh)?
>
>
> I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
> work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

A quick google returned this page:
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=882423 stating 2850mAh.

NiMH and LiON reghargables do better in digital items though (digital
cameras, MP3 players, mobile phones) because the current drain is not a
constant drain, but a high drain pulsed on and off (think memory clock
cycles). A 1800mAh battery would probably outperform Duracells in a digital
camera.
http://www.greenbatteries.com/green...afa.html#normal

ISTR my camera manual saying not to use ordinary alkaline batteries because
they overheat with the large current drain, so you have to use photo
alkaline batteries.

Bob

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net

2005-08-16, 12:21 am

In alt.engineering.electrical Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> wrote:

| They're roughly comparable, under conditions of moderate load (e.g.
| 100 mA or so). The Duracell performance spec indicates that a MN1500
| AA alkaline cell has a service life of around 20-22 hours at 100 mA...
| and this assumes that the battery can be drawn down all the way to 0.8
| volts per cell. This work out to around 2000-2200 mAh, and this
| figure seems to be good for discharge rates from trickle-load up to
| around 400 mA.

My noice-canelling headphones run from a single AAA battery. I bought
an 8-pack of Duracell MN2400B8 (AAA) in late June and have put about
80 to 90 hours on the first cell (still have 7 in the pack), and it's
still running fine. So this must be drawing a lot less than 100 mA.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

manatbandq@hotmail.com

2005-08-16, 8:21 am

Bob Smith (UK) wrote:
> "Sammy" <noone@no-where.com> wrote in message
> news:96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156...
>
> A quick google returned this page:
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=882423 stating 2850mAh.
>
> NiMH and LiON reghargables do better in digital items though (digital
> cameras, MP3 players, mobile phones) because the current drain is not a
> constant drain, but a high drain pulsed on and off (think memory clock
> cycles).

Complete rubbish.

Any variation in current drain at the clock rate is smoothed by the
decoupling capacitors scattered throughout the circuit. otherwise you
get unnacceptable voltage drop in the PCB, let alone the batteries
internal resistance.

MBQ

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

2005-08-17, 6:21 am

"Christian McArdle" <cmcardle75@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4300c154$0$6469$ed9e5944@reading.news.pipex.net...
(eg[color=darkred]
>
> It depends on current drain. Alkalines are vastly superior in low
drain
> appliances, such as clocks or smoke alarms, to the point where NiMH
would be
> useless. In high drain appliances, such as DVD players with integral
> screens, the alkaline would be in chocolate teapot territory.

That's the first time I've heard of that, so I had to google it.
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/lang...ves/001333.html
I've heard the teats on a boarhog one and fish needs a bicycle, but not
a chocolate anything. Seems like most of the younger folk haven't even
seen a fireplace so that one's kind of nonsensical to the average joe.
And then there's the average American, who drinks more coffee than tea,
however that depends a lot nowadays, since there seems to be a kick in
tea consumption now that they are promoting its health benefits -
antioxidants, etc. But then most tea is bought in teabags, so teapots
seem to be getting rare...

But I'd _love_ to have a chocolate teapot, it'd be very useful to me, to
nosh on!

> The changeover point where one is better than the other is very much
in the
> direction of low drain. Any appliance that uses remotely much
electricity
> will much prefer NiMH, even with the lower nominal voltage. In fact,
the
> alkaline will produce a lower voltage for most of its discharge cycle
in any
> medium to high usage application. 1.5V is only available when the
battery is
> totally fresh and not being discharged to any extent. Any depletion in
the
> cell, or any current drain will result in rapid voltage drop, often
even to
> 0.8V or so. This doesn't happen with NiMH. They can produce almost
full
> voltage until very nearly depleted, even at high current levels.
>
> Christian.
>
>

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

2005-08-17, 6:21 am

<phil-news-nospam@ipal.net> wrote in message
news:ddrgfk32gsk@news4.newsguy.com...
> In alt.engineering.electrical Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> wrote:
>
> | They're roughly comparable, under conditions of moderate load (e.g.
> | 100 mA or so). The Duracell performance spec indicates that a
MN1500
> | AA alkaline cell has a service life of around 20-22 hours at 100
mA...
> | and this assumes that the battery can be drawn down all the way to
0.8
> | volts per cell. This work out to around 2000-2200 mAh, and this
> | figure seems to be good for discharge rates from trickle-load up to
> | around 400 mA.
>
> My noice-canelling headphones run from a single AAA battery. I bought
> an 8-pack of Duracell MN2400B8 (AAA) in late June and have put about
> 80 to 90 hours on the first cell (still have 7 in the pack), and it's
> still running fine. So this must be drawing a lot less than 100 mA.

Must not be very noisy. ;-) What brand and model are they?

> --

Dave Plowman (News)

2005-08-17, 10:21 am

In article <11g5tq226929o86@corp.supernews.com>,
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun wrote:
> But then most tea is bought in teabags, so teapots
> seem to be getting rare...

You can still use tea bags in a teapot. The idea of putting one in a cup
is much newer than tea bags themselves, and a disgusting way of making
proper tea.

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net

2005-08-17, 1:21 pm

Hamie

2005-08-17, 7:21 pm

Sammy wrote:
> How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
> or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
> 2100 mAh)?
>

It all depends on the drain. Alkaline do well in very small drain
applications. e.g. digital clocks etc, where they'll last for years.
NiMH batteries do well in higher drain situations. And will outlast most
alkalines in things like camera flashes etc.

>
> I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
> work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

If it uses alkalines it has to. Alkalines only provide 1.5V when they're
brand new. They quickly degrade to around 1.2V for most of their
lifetime and then drop off rapidly to nothing when they're dead.

NiMH on the other hand start at 1.2V and drop only a little during their
disharge cycle.

H

Christian McArdle

2005-08-18, 6:21 am

> If it uses alkalines it has to. Alkalines only provide 1.5V when they're
> brand new. They quickly degrade to around 1.2V for most of their
> lifetime and then drop off rapidly to nothing when they're dead.

Actually, alkalines steadily decline from 1.5V to around 0.8 when dead. They
don't particularly hang about any particular voltage figure, although the
chart is not entirely linear, so the drop is slowest around the 1.2V mark.

Christian.

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

2005-08-18, 10:21 am

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d9bd64a4cdave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <11g5tq226929o86@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun wrote:
>
> You can still use tea bags in a teapot. The idea of putting one in a
cup
> is much newer than tea bags themselves, and a disgusting way of making
> proper tea.

Well, I get the feeling that anything having to do with tea here in the
'states' hasn't agreed with Brits since we dumped it overboard into the
Boston harbor. ;-)

Now the big kick here is to promote green tea as having healing
capabilities because of the antioxidants in it. As far as I can see,
it'd take at least a gallon of it a day to do any good.

I don't drink either, but I also get the feeling that most 'Merkins
drink coffee and think that tea is for sissies.

> --
> *24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Baxter

2005-08-18, 1:21 pm

"Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:11g91fp95bvjs54@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4d9bd64a4cdave@davenoise.co.uk...
> cup
>
> Well, I get the feeling that anything having to do with tea here in the
> 'states' hasn't agreed with Brits since we dumped it overboard into the
> Boston harbor. ;-)
>
> Now the big kick here is to promote green tea as having healing
> capabilities because of the antioxidants in it. As far as I can see,
> it'd take at least a gallon of it a day to do any good.
>
> I don't drink either, but I also get the feeling that most 'Merkins
> drink coffee and think that tea is for sissies.
>

Well, there's some of us Americans that appreciate good tea. Do note that
Portland (OR) has at least two tea companies creating their own blends of
tea (Tazo, The Tao of Tea), and several teahouses. (note that Starbucks now
owns and sells Tazo).

Personally, loose tea is better than tea bag tea - though there are some
very good bagged teas (like from Tazo). Twinnings tea is utter crap - on a
scale of 1 to 10, Twinnings Oolong is a -2.

Lipton loose black tea is ok for every-day use, but I can get just as good
black tea at a local Asian market for less than a quarter of the price of
Lipton.

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TokaMundo

2005-08-18, 2:21 pm

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 06:02:45 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> Gave us:

>
>"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:4d9bd64a4cdave@davenoise.co.uk...
>cup
>
>Well, I get the feeling that anything having to do with tea here in the
>'states' hasn't agreed with Brits since we dumped it overboard into the
>Boston harbor. ;-)
>
>Now the big kick here is to promote green tea as having healing
>capabilities because of the antioxidants in it. As far as I can see,
>it'd take at least a gallon of it a day to do any good.

There are more antioxidants in chocolate. Red wine is a good one as
well.

ALSO... HEMP SEEDS! Quite a bit actually. Let's see...

Omega 3, fairly high content, protein, second only in amount to
soy...

Feed the world's hungry masses, I say!
>
>I don't drink either, but I also get the feeling that most 'Merkins
>drink coffee and think that tea is for sissies.

Probably a subconscious reaction not too dissimilar to that which
you describe in the first sentence of your response.

Tea is for intelligent folk. More than a cup of coffee a day can do
your body quite a bit of harm. One can drink tea practically
incessantly and see no ill effect... well teeth, maybe.

Dave Plowman (News)

2005-08-18, 4:21 pm

In article <hqd9g1h1uoavvmd313vqf5lcgp3526sten@4ax.com>,
TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org> wrote:
> Tea is for intelligent folk. More than a cup of coffee a day can do
> your body quite a bit of harm.

I should be dead, then, given I drink about 8 per day. And mugs, not cups.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

TokaMundo

2005-08-18, 7:21 pm

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:45:54 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> Gave us:

>In article <hqd9g1h1uoavvmd313vqf5lcgp3526sten@4ax.com>,
> TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org> wrote:
>
>I should be dead, then, given I drink about 8 per day. And mugs, not cups.

My mom thought so too. The doc told her 6 a day was too much, and
she cut down to about two a day.

You won't be dead, but you probably stink pretty bad, and will lean
toward things like hiatal hernias and the like.

Dave Plowman (News)

2005-08-18, 9:21 pm

In article <2jv9g15dq3ppraghhc7dr62shrdlip71ie@4ax.com>,
TokaMundo <TokaMundo@weedizgood.org> wrote:
[color=darkred]
> My mom thought so too. The doc told her 6 a day was too much, and she
> cut down to about two a day.

> You won't be dead, but you probably stink pretty bad, and will lean
> toward things like hiatal hernias and the like.

This message brought to you by the 'tea bag in a cup corporation of the US
of A'.

--
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Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Michael A. Terrell

2005-08-19, 2:21 am

Baxter wrote:
>
> Well, there's some of us Americans that appreciate good tea. Do note that
> Portland (OR) has at least two tea companies creating their own blends of
> tea (Tazo, The Tao of Tea), and several teahouses. (note that Starbucks now
> owns and sells Tazo).
>
> Personally, loose tea is better than tea bag tea - though there are some
> very good bagged teas (like from Tazo). Twinnings tea is utter crap - on a
> scale of 1 to 10, Twinnings Oolong is a -2.
>
> Lipton loose black tea is ok for every-day use, but I can get just as good
> black tea at a local Asian market for less than a quarter of the price of
> Lipton.

have you ever tried Sassafras tea?

--
Link to my "Computers for disabled Veterans" project website deleted
after threats were telephoned to my church.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Baxter

2005-08-19, 3:21 am

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:430563E6.597D5BF9@earthlink.net...
> Baxter wrote:
that[color=darkred]
of[color=darkred]
now[color=darkred]
on a[color=darkred]
good[color=darkred]
of[color=darkred]
>
>
> have you ever tried Sassafras tea?
>
Yep. Reminds one of Root Beer. I think I have some in my cupboard - but
it's too old and has lost its flavor.

Have you tried Jasmine Pearls? I usually make a large pot - 40% Jasmine
Pearls, 60% loose black tea. Pour in the boiling water and watch the Pearls
unwind. Taste is at least twice as good as what you get at the best
oriental restaurant.

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Michael A. Terrell

2005-08-19, 4:21 am

Baxter wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:430563E6.597D5BF9@earthlink.net...
>
> Yep. Reminds one of Root Beer. I think I have some in my cupboard - but
> it's too old and has lost its flavor.

For real sassafras tea you go out early in the morning with an ax,
and find the sassafras plant. You cut off some of the roots, rinse the
dirt off and use a very sharp knife to shave thin layers off, then boil
the root in a tea pot. It was one of the best things about visiting my
grandparent's farm as a kid. It was even beter when the sap was down in
the roots for winter, and the flavor was at its best. After that, I
have never really liked any other teas.

> Have you tried Jasmine Pearls? I usually make a large pot - 40% Jasmine
> Pearls, 60% loose black tea. Pour in the boiling water and watch the Pearls
> unwind. Taste is at least twice as good as what you get at the best
> oriental restaurant.

--
Link to my "Computers for disabled Veterans" project website deleted
after threats were telephoned to my church.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

2005-08-19, 10:21 am

"Baxter" <lbax02.spamguard@baxcode.com> wrote in message
news:11g9cl8hv8dfvd1@corp.supernews.com...
> "Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com>
wrote
> in message news:11g91fp95bvjs54@corp.supernews.com...
a[color=darkred]
making[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
see,[color=darkred]
>
> Well, there's some of us Americans that appreciate good tea. Do note
that
> Portland (OR) has at least two tea companies creating their own blends
of
> tea (Tazo, The Tao of Tea), and several teahouses. (note that
Starbucks now
> owns and sells Tazo).
>
> Personally, loose tea is better than tea bag tea - though there are
some
> very good bagged teas (like from Tazo). Twinnings tea is utter crap -
on a
> scale of 1 to 10, Twinnings Oolong is a -2.
>
> Lipton loose black tea is ok for every-day use, but I can get just as
good
> black tea at a local Asian market for less than a quarter of the
price of
> Lipton.

One of the ladies at work is from Hong Kong, and brought back a round
donut sized cake of tea from there. She gave it to me and I gave it to
my cow-orker, and told her that she should only use a pinch of it. She
didnm't listen, and used a more generous amount and learned her lesson.
It was waaaay too strong!

> --

daestrom

2005-08-20, 1:21 pm

"Sammy" <noone@no-where.com> wrote in message
news:96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156...
> How does the capacity of a Duracell-brand AA cell (Duracell ordinary
> or Duracell ultra) compare to one of the high-capacity NiMH cells (eg
> 2100 mAh)?
>
>
> I am assuming, of course, that any applicance using the cells would
> work down to the 1.2 volts of the NiMH.

Well, all questions of 'tea' left aside, this is what I've found out from
research/usage.

If you compare two 'fresh' batteries, one alkaline and one NiMH, you'll find
that the NiMH has a much higher capacity. But the NiMH *also* have a much
higher self-discharge rate. If the application uses power at anything like
the 20-hour discharge rate, the NiMH will win hands down. But if the
application is on the order of 'several-month' rate, the self-discharge of
the NiMH will be a bigger 'draw' on the battery capacity than the
application. So the alkaline battery wins.

daestrom
P.S. of course NiMH are rechargable, whereas alkaline are not.

Chris Jones

2005-08-20, 2:21 pm

Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:
[snip]
> I don't drink either, but I also get the feeling that most 'Merkins
> drink coffee and think that tea is for sissies.
[snip]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin

You learn something new every day!

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

2005-08-20, 10:21 pm

"daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:V_HNe.22521$Hx4.11934@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Sammy" <noone@no-where.com> wrote in message
> news:96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156...
(eg[color=darkred]
>
> Well, all questions of 'tea' left aside, this is what I've found out
from
> research/usage.
>
> If you compare two 'fresh' batteries, one alkaline and one NiMH,
you'll find
> that the NiMH has a much higher capacity. But the NiMH *also* have a
much
> higher self-discharge rate. If the application uses power at anything
like
> the 20-hour discharge rate, the NiMH will win hands down. But if the
> application is on the order of 'several-month' rate, the
self-discharge of
> the NiMH will be a bigger 'draw' on the battery capacity than the
> application. So the alkaline battery wins.
>
> daestrom
> P.S. of course NiMH are rechargable, whereas alkaline are not.

Well, alkalines _are_ rechargeable, as you can see if you buy the
Rayovac Renewal rechargeable alkalines. They do recharge, but in my
experience, they don't get very many charges before the capacity is
greatly diminished.

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

2005-08-20, 10:21 pm

"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11genpecpn9ncf5@corp.supernews.com...
> Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:
> [snip]
> [snip]
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin
>
> You learn something new every day!

Too late - that's already been brought to the attention of the readers a
number of times in the last few years.

raden

2005-08-22, 9:21 pm

In message <hqd9g1h1uoavvmd313vqf5lcgp3526sten@4ax.com>, TokaMundo
<TokaMundo@weedizgood.org> writes
>On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 06:02:45 -0700, "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the
>Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> Gave us:
>
>
> There are more antioxidants in chocolate. Red wine is a good one as
>well.
>
> ALSO... HEMP SEEDS! Quite a bit actually. Let's see...
>

Maybe, but the ones I scattered in the front garden of the magistrates'
court a couple of years ago failed to germinate

What a waste

--
geoff

raden

2005-08-22, 9:21 pm

In message <2jv9g15dq3ppraghhc7dr62shrdlip71ie@4ax.com>, TokaMundo
<TokaMundo@weedizgood.org> writes
>On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:45:54 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
><dave@davenoise.co.uk> Gave us:
>
>
> My mom thought so too. The doc told her 6 a day was too much, and
>she cut down to about two a day.
>
> You won't be dead, but you probably stink pretty bad, and will lean
>toward things like hiatal hernias and the like.

I bet you wear eye protection when mixing NaOH too ...

--
geoff

raden

2005-08-22, 9:21 pm

In message <11genpecpn9ncf5@corp.supernews.com>, Chris Jones
<lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> writes
>Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:
>[snip]
>[snip]
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin
>
>You learn something new every day!

Yes but, perleeeze

Not what a merkin is

Oh dear

--
geoff

John Savage

2005-08-22, 11:21 pm

"daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> writes:
>"Sammy" <noone@no-where.com> wrote in message
>news:96B397B4678021A7D4@204.153.244.156...
>
>If you compare two 'fresh' batteries, one alkaline and one NiMH, you'll find
>that the NiMH has a much higher capacity. But the NiMH *also* have a much
>higher self-discharge rate. If the application uses power at anything like
>the 20-hour discharge rate, the NiMH will win hands down. But if the

AA Batteries

ANS2300 - NiMH - 1.2V - 2300 mAh (Ansmann)

ANS2400 - NiMH - 1.2V - 2400 mAh (Ansmann)
RB102746 - NiMH - 1.2V - 2300 mAh (Uniross)

RB100880 - NiCd - 1.2V - 800 mAh (Uniross)
RB104358 - NiMH - 1.2V - 2500 mAh (Uniross)

4106 - Alkaline - 1.5V - 2600 mAh (Varta)
MN1500 - Alkaline - 1.5V - 2700 mAh (Duracell)

e2 lithium - 2900 mAh (Energizer)
alkaline copper top - 2850 mAh (Duracell)

NiMH are quickly catching up with alkaline primaries.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

Charlie+

2005-08-23, 5:21 am

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 01:27:22 GMT, John Savage
<rookswood@suburbian.com.au> wrote as underneath my scribble :

Only in some applications, self discharge I think is about 20%
in the first 7 days for NiMh cells and is very temperature dependant
if you store them warm after charge you can lose 50% in 7 days quite
easily, and loss rate is higher for the higher capacity cells.
Charlie+
>
>NiMH are quickly catching up with alkaline primaries.

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