Electrical Engineering - Advice on wiring control panels for older Amusement Park Ride motors

Author

Advice on wiring control panels for older Amusement Park Ride motors

Jukin' Geo

2005-08-16, 11:21 pm

Hello,

I have been faced with a unique situation. I am looking to control the
older motors that are on amusement park rides. The rides didn't come with
control panels. I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
voltage control system that uses either Square D or Allen Bradley push
buttons. These in turn are connected to some sort of relay or contactor,
correct? Well bottom line is I don't know the proper way of hooking such a
system up. Is there a guide somewhere on-line that I can follow? I do have
a strong electronics background and basic residential wiring experience, but
I never came across a situation like this. The motors range from 220 single
phase to 440 volt 3 phase.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Thank You,

Geo

Ben Miller

2005-08-17, 1:21 am

You will need engineering assistance. There are public safety
considerations, and this type of design should be done by a licensed
professional engineer.

Regards

Ben Miller

--
Benjamin D. Miller, PE
B. MILLER ENGINEERING
www.bmillerengineering.com
"Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:wLwMe.1045$EZ5.875@fe08.lga...
> Hello,
>
> I have been faced with a unique situation. I am looking to control the
> older motors that are on amusement park rides. The rides didn't come with
> control panels. I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
> voltage control system that uses either Square D or Allen Bradley push
> buttons. These in turn are connected to some sort of relay or contactor,
> correct? Well bottom line is I don't know the proper way of hooking such
> a
> system up. Is there a guide somewhere on-line that I can follow? I do
> have
> a strong electronics background and basic residential wiring experience,
> but
> I never came across a situation like this. The motors range from 220
> single
> phase to 440 volt 3 phase.
>
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Geo
>
>

NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel

2005-08-17, 1:21 am

"Ben Miller" <benmiller@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:qfKdnfCim_TWM5_eRVn-sg@comcast.com...
> You will need engineering assistance. There are public safety
> considerations, and this type of design should be done by a licensed
> professional engineer.
>

Especially if it will be used by the public.
You and the company can be sued if a fault happens, and that can kill.
Some of the motors use up to 100 amps or more.
Some have to be controllable.
They have clamped down on amusement park rides in Texas, due to several
deaths, one ride went too fast, and the poor welding on a safety bar let go
and killed 2 kids in Austin a while back. The place was sued, and is out of
business, the inspectors were fired, as they should be, It wont bring the 2
kids back either.

Andrew Gabriel

2005-08-17, 8:21 am

In article <4302b828$0$5318$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>,
"NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel" <nospam@invalid.com> writes:
>
> "Ben Miller" <benmiller@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:qfKdnfCim_TWM5_eRVn-sg@comcast.com...
>
> Especially if it will be used by the public.

In the UK, such rides require a visual check by the operative
every day, and a formal visual inspection every week (they are
the class of appliance which requires the most frequent PAT
testing). There's probably a similar requirement for mechanical
checking too.

--
Andrew Gabriel

SQLit

2005-08-17, 11:21 am

"Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:wLwMe.1045$EZ5.875@fe08.lga...
> Hello,
>
> I have been faced with a unique situation. I am looking to control the
> older motors that are on amusement park rides. The rides didn't come with
> control panels. I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
> voltage control system that uses either Square D or Allen Bradley push
> buttons. These in turn are connected to some sort of relay or contactor,
> correct? Well bottom line is I don't know the proper way of hooking such
a
> system up. Is there a guide somewhere on-line that I can follow? I do
have
> a strong electronics background and basic residential wiring experience,
but
> I never came across a situation like this. The motors range from 220
single
> phase to 440 volt 3 phase.
>
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Geo

Some jursdictions now require a UL/CSA stamp on control panels.
Seek advice from the EE feild and a lawyer before you touch them.

Jukin' Geo

2005-08-18, 11:21 pm

Ok, Your answers below would be to the question, "what are the legalities
of wiring an amusement device?" I didn't ask that. What I did ask was for
information on connecting an Allen Bradley switch panel to a contactor
assembly to control a large motor. The legal stuff is covered already. I
would like to see schematics and wiring diagrams please, not legal
explanations.

Thank You,

Geo

"Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:wLwMe.1045$EZ5.875@fe08.lga...
> Hello,
>
> I have been faced with a unique situation. I am looking to control the
> older motors that are on amusement park rides. The rides didn't come with
> control panels. I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
> voltage control system that uses either Square D or Allen Bradley push
> buttons. These in turn are connected to some sort of relay or contactor,
> correct? Well bottom line is I don't know the proper way of hooking such
a
> system up. Is there a guide somewhere on-line that I can follow? I do
have
> a strong electronics background and basic residential wiring experience,
but
> I never came across a situation like this. The motors range from 220
single
> phase to 440 volt 3 phase.
>
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Geo
>
>

Ben Miller

2005-08-18, 11:21 pm

"Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:pwaNe.17$_7.15@fe08.lga...
> Ok, Your answers below would be to the question, "what are the legalities
> of wiring an amusement device?" I didn't ask that. What I did ask was
> for
> information on connecting an Allen Bradley switch panel to a contactor
> assembly to control a large motor. The legal stuff is covered already. I
> would like to see schematics and wiring diagrams please, not legal
> explanations.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Geo
>

Most of the control device manufacturers have application data and sample
circuits on their web site.
For Allen-Bradley, go to this page and then select "wiring
diagrams-pushbutton"

http://literature.rockwellautomatio...N%20-%20English

Ben Miller
--
Benjamin D. Miller, PE
B. MILLER ENGINEERING
www.bmillerengineering.com

johnnybegood

2005-08-19, 7:21 am

"Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:wLwMe.1045$EZ5.875@fe08.lga...
> Hello,
>
> I have been faced with a unique situation. I am looking to control the
> older motors that are on amusement park rides. The rides didn't come with
> control panels.

I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
> voltage control system that uses either Square D or Allen Bradley push
> buttons.

I do believe you could end up killing an innocent person !!.

These in turn are connected to some sort of relay or contactor,
> correct?

Well bottom line is I don't know the proper way of hooking such a
> system up.

Then steer clear !!!!!!!!!!

Is there a guide somewhere on-line that I can follow? I do have
> a strong electronics background and basic residential wiring experience,
but
> I never came across a situation like this. The motors range from 220
single
> phase to 440 volt 3 phase.
>
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Geo
>
>

Chris

2005-08-25, 10:21 am

"Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:wLwMe.1045$EZ5.875@fe08.lga...
> Hello,
>
> I have been faced with a unique situation. I am looking to control the
> older motors that are on amusement park rides. The rides didn't come with
> control panels. I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
> voltage control system that uses either Square D or Allen Bradley push
> buttons. These in turn are connected to some sort of relay or contactor,
> correct? Well bottom line is I don't know the proper way of hooking such
> a
> system up. Is there a guide somewhere on-line that I can follow? I do
> have
> a strong electronics background and basic residential wiring experience,
> but
> I never came across a situation like this. The motors range from 220
> single
> phase to 440 volt 3 phase.
>
> Any assistance would be much appreciated.
>
> Thank You,
>
> Geo
>
By any chance are you working for the medically challenged Michael Jackson?

Plenty of deep pockets there is something goes wrong. Than again, not sure
what more could go wrong over there in "NeverLand".

Chris

Jukin' Geo

2005-08-25, 10:21 pm

Hello, Ben

Thank You very much for your help. I downloaded the page and I am sure
there is something there I can use. I also would like to thank you for
properly answering my questions, instead of not doing so and ridiculing me
or questioning my ablities.

Geo

"Ben Miller" <benmiller@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ff-dnXW1HcI1o5jeRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> "Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:pwaNe.17$_7.15@fe08.lga...
legalities[color=darkred]
I[color=darkred]
>
> Most of the control device manufacturers have application data and sample
> circuits on their web site.
> For Allen-Bradley, go to this page and then select "wiring
> diagrams-pushbutton"
>
>
http://literature.rockwellautomatio...cuments/webasse
ts/browse_results.hcst?familyTitle=General%20Information&categoryTitle=Push%
20Buttons&xLanguage=EN%20-%20English&CategoryId=0028&FamilyId=0247&passedLan
gVal=EN%20-%20English
>
>
> Ben Miller
> --
> Benjamin D. Miller, PE
> B. MILLER ENGINEERING
> www.bmillerengineering.com
>
>

Jukin' Geo

2005-08-25, 11:21 pm

<<> I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
>
>
> I do believe you could end up killing an innocent person !!. >>

Hmmm, no, I know I will not. But I know you probably would. For the simple
reason is that you cannot properly answer a question. I for one know that
if you cannot properly answer a question, you cannot properly follow
directions either then.

LISTEN ALL. I DO NOT NEED TO BE RIDICULED OR LECTURED ON LEGALITIES. THIS
IS SOMETHING NEW I AM LEARNING AND AS I SAID THE LEGALITIES ARE COVERED. I
AM NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THIS PROJECT. THE CHOSEN CIRCUIT WILL BE EVALUATED
AND CHECKED BY A CERTIFIED INSPECTOR SPECIFICALLY FOR AMUSEMENT DEVICES
BEFORE USE.

Apparently most of you think I was born yesterday or I am some punk kid. No
that is not the case. I am an adult and already an electrical technician.
This is just an area I never ventured into before. So I would like to
learn...how you do that? You ask questions such as the one I asked above.

Johnny, were you born with the all supreme knowledge of how to hook up every
possible form of electrical device? I think not. Truth of the matter is I
bet you don't know how to hook up such a device either. So if you cannot
answer the question properly. KEEP THE HELL OUT!!!

Jukin' Geo

2005-08-25, 11:21 pm

Here again...another one that cannot answer a question properly. Well, I
know for sure that all of you that has answered my question with a stupid
remark like Chris here doesn't apparently know what they heck they are doing
or wouldn't go near a higher level of wiring as I would like to attempt. Of
course I am going to find out as much as possible on the topic before the
first wire is hooked up. What you think I am stupid? If that were the case
I wouln't have come here and ASKED the question in the first place. Those
like Chris here may be afraid to go near something like this. That is
understandable. But more likely he doesn't need to know or want to know.
But keep your opinions to yourselves...I didn't ask for them. I came here
to look for information. But do I get information here? For the majority,
that is a big NO. Only one person intelligently answered my question here.
All the rest of you who "answered" my question gave me a 'troll' like
rediculed response to what I consider a simple question. If you want to
banter back and forth and ridicule people...go over to High School
Electronics forum 101 and cause trouble there.

As to answer your question, Chris. No, I do not work for Michael Jackson,
but if I did, I would probably make a helluva lot more money than you.

"Chris" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
news:NojPe.11886$ih4.10517@fe02.lga...
>
> "Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:wLwMe.1045$EZ5.875@fe08.lga...
with[color=darkred]
contactor,[color=darkred]
such[color=darkred]
> By any chance are you working for the medically challenged Michael
Jackson?
>

>
> Plenty of deep pockets there is something goes wrong. Than again, not
sure
> what more could go wrong over there in "NeverLand".
>
> Chris
>
>

Chris

2005-08-25, 11:21 pm

"Jukin' Geo" <jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:muuPe.24007$U63.5379@fe12.lga...
> Here again...another one that cannot answer a question properly. Well, I
> know for sure that all of you that has answered my question with a stupid
> remark like Chris here doesn't apparently know what they heck they are
> doing
> or wouldn't go near a higher level of wiring as I would like to attempt.
> Of
> course I am going to find out as much as possible on the topic before the
> first wire is hooked up. What you think I am stupid? If that were the
> case
> I wouln't have come here and ASKED the question in the first place.
> Those
> like Chris here may be afraid to go near something like this. That is
> understandable. But more likely he doesn't need to know or want to know.
> But keep your opinions to yourselves...I didn't ask for them. I came here
> to look for information. But do I get information here? For the
> majority,
> that is a big NO. Only one person intelligently answered my question
> here.
> All the rest of you who "answered" my question gave me a 'troll' like
> rediculed response to what I consider a simple question. If you want to
> banter back and forth and ridicule people...go over to High School
> Electronics forum 101 and cause trouble there.
>

WOW what a reaction. I take it you do not like the king of pop. Sorry to
hear that.

Chris

Bob

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

Jukin Geo,
I think the point everyone is making here is that the nature of your
question indicates to all of us that, although you may be an
"electrical technician", you obviously do not know the first thing
about simple motor control circuits. What we already know is that this
is NOT like wiring up a light switch, it is a SPECIALTY of our
industry, one that is typically learned at the hands of an expert, not
over an anonymous newsgroup posting! The fact that you are asking
questions like this here at all is proof of just how much you still
need to learn.

Yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but NOT where people's live will
hang in the balance so directly as in an amusement park ride. If you
acidentally wire up the 3 wire control circuit wrong and the ride
fails to stop under the right circumstances, it is not like having a
roll of tissue paper getting eaten by a machine, or a pump
accidentally flooding a room. Some child could lose an arm or worse.
We are not the ones with an attitude problem here my friend. YOU must
adjust your arrogance, swallow you pride, and admit that you should
leave this to an experienced professional until you get PROPER
training.

Relying on an inspector to catch your mistakes is in fact the BIGGEST
mistake you can make. Inspectors typically start from an understanding
that you were qualified to do this work in the first place, they are
there to catch the minor errors. What you are planning is like saying
you don't need to take Driver's Ed and get a license because you know
how to push the gas pedal, and besides, the police are there to
correct you if you screw up on the road!

Please please please, for the sake of the children, do NOT attemp to
do this by yourself. Hire a pro, stand there with him, ask lots of
questions, and learn that way.

Peace,
Signed: Concerned FARP (Father of Amusement Ride Participants)

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 21:22:18 -0400, "Jukin' Geo"
<jukingeo@optonline.net> wrote:

>
><<> I do believe the correct way to do it is to use a low
>
>Hmmm, no, I know I will not. But I know you probably would. For the simple
>reason is that you cannot properly answer a question. I for one know that
>if you cannot properly answer a question, you cannot properly follow
>directions either then.
>
>LISTEN ALL. I DO NOT NEED TO BE RIDICULED OR LECTURED ON LEGALITIES. THIS
>IS SOMETHING NEW I AM LEARNING AND AS I SAID THE LEGALITIES ARE COVERED. I
>AM NOT THE ONLY ONE ON THIS PROJECT. THE CHOSEN CIRCUIT WILL BE EVALUATED
>AND CHECKED BY A CERTIFIED INSPECTOR SPECIFICALLY FOR AMUSEMENT DEVICES
>BEFORE USE.
>
>Apparently most of you think I was born yesterday or I am some punk kid. No
>that is not the case. I am an adult and already an electrical technician.
>This is just an area I never ventured into before. So I would like to
>learn...how you do that? You ask questions such as the one I asked above.
>
>Johnny, were you born with the all supreme knowledge of how to hook up every
>possible form of electrical device? I think not. Truth of the matter is I
>bet you don't know how to hook up such a device either. So if you cannot
>answer the question properly. KEEP THE HELL OUT!!!
>
>

Chris

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

"Bob" <licku45@yqahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hijtg15elq9kfj3vqhf7p4n6ml7e0is0s6@4ax.com...
> Jukin Geo,
> I think the point everyone is making here is that the nature of your
> question indicates to all of us that, although you may be an
> "electrical technician", you obviously do not know the first thing
> about simple motor control circuits. What we already know is that this
> is NOT like wiring up a light switch, it is a SPECIALTY of our
> industry, one that is typically learned at the hands of an expert, not
> over an anonymous newsgroup posting! The fact that you are asking
> questions like this here at all is proof of just how much you still
> need to learn.
>
> Yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but NOT where people's live will
> hang in the balance so directly as in an amusement park ride. If you
> acidentally wire up the 3 wire control circuit wrong and the ride
> fails to stop under the right circumstances, it is not like having a
> roll of tissue paper getting eaten by a machine, or a pump
> accidentally flooding a room. Some child could lose an arm or worse.
> We are not the ones with an attitude problem here my friend. YOU must
> adjust your arrogance, swallow you pride, and admit that you should
> leave this to an experienced professional until you get PROPER
> training.
>
> Relying on an inspector to catch your mistakes is in fact the BIGGEST
> mistake you can make. Inspectors typically start from an understanding
> that you were qualified to do this work in the first place, they are
> there to catch the minor errors. What you are planning is like saying
> you don't need to take Driver's Ed and get a license because you know
> how to push the gas pedal, and besides, the police are there to
> correct you if you screw up on the road!
>
> Please please please, for the sake of the children, do NOT attemp to
> do this by yourself. Hire a pro, stand there with him, ask lots of
> questions, and learn that way.
>
> Peace,
> Signed: Concerned FARP (Father of Amusement Ride Participants)
>
>

I think he can do us all a favor and let us know where theses "rides" are
located.

If in fact they are for profit, our friend here is making some excellent PR
LOL.

Chris

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