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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > August 2005 > cooker outlet
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| Lonely1 2005-08-23, 12:21 pm |
| Is it ok to spur an unswitched single socket from the cooker outlen to
plug in a gas cooker (no troll nonsence please).
The gas cookers very small electrical requirement to ignite the gas is
obviously not going to bother the cooker wiring and the gas cooker is
fitted with a 3amp fuse but is there anything to say it cannot be done
???
Lonely :o(
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| Palindr☻me 2005-08-23, 2:21 pm |
| Lonely1 wrote:
> Is it ok to spur an unswitched single socket from the cooker outlen to
> plug in a gas cooker (no troll nonsence please).
>
> The gas cookers very small electrical requirement to ignite the gas is
> obviously not going to bother the cooker wiring and the gas cooker is
> fitted with a 3amp fuse but is there anything to say it cannot be done
> ???
>
> Lonely :o(
>
If you are in the UK, it is now illegal to add or modify electrical
wiring in a kitchen unless you can self-certify for Part P or get it
inspected by the local building regs authority.
Unless, of course, you had put this spur in a year ago and are now
simply replacing it, which is allowed.
Personally, I would probably fit a permanent fused wired spur outlet
rather than a socket.
You must wire between isolator switch and the fused spur with 6mm2, the
same as used for the cooker. The fused spur must be labelled to identify
clearly where the isolator switch is and the isolator switch must be
labelled to show what it isolates (eg electric AND gas cookers).
The above is as I understand it - it may not be current regulations. You
should get a qualified electrician to do this sort of work, if in any doubt.
--
Sue
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"Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:1124807713.062844.193540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Is it ok to spur an unswitched single socket from the cooker outlen to
> plug in a gas cooker (no troll nonsence please).
>
> The gas cookers very small electrical requirement to ignite the gas is
> obviously not going to bother the cooker wiring and the gas cooker is
> fitted with a 3amp fuse but is there anything to say it cannot be done
> ???
>
> Lonely :o(
From your description I will say no.
Tapping smaller wire from bigger wire requires a over current protective
device.
You do not mention what voltages your dealing with.
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| Lonely1 2005-08-23, 4:21 pm |
|
Palindr=E2=98=BBme wrote:
>
> If you are in the UK, it is now illegal to add or modify electrical
> wiring in a kitchen unless you can self-certify for Part P or get it
> inspected by the local building regs authority.
>
> Unless, of course, you had put this spur in a year ago and are now
> simply replacing it, which is allowed.
>
> Personally, I would probably fit a permanent fused wired spur outlet
> rather than a socket.
I thought that at first but then I would be voiding warranty if I cut
the molded plug off the cooker ? the plug is fused 3amp
> You must wire between isolator switch and the fused spur with 6mm2, the
> same as used for the cooker. The fused spur must be labelled to identify
> clearly where the isolator switch is and the isolator switch must be
> labelled to show what it isolates (eg electric AND gas cookers).
No, I meant to spur from the outlet not the isolator,all of 2inches,
the isolator would still isolate the cooker outlet and the socket/fused
spur.
The only way I could see a problem is if some fool stuck a plug on the
end of an electric cooker cable thats if it would even fit in. ?
> Sue
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| hei lonely,
Better don't, it will be damaged a lot of things. either you or your
equipments.
tks
magic
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| Lonely1 2005-08-23, 5:21 pm |
| I suppose I could wire the spured socket with 6mm then ?
I don't know what voltage the click spark in a gas cooker produces but
I'm sure it could
quite happily be done from a battery, unfortunately not in this case.
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| Lonely1 2005-08-23, 5:21 pm |
| Hi Magic,
My equiptments (specialised) are old and shrivelled,
maybe they could use a spark !!!!
Lonely
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| Palindr☻me 2005-08-23, 5:21 pm |
| Lonely1 wrote:
> I suppose I could wire the spured socket with 6mm then ?
> I don't know what voltage the click spark in a gas cooker produces but
> I'm sure it could
> quite happily be done from a battery, unfortunately not in this case.
>
You need to say what country you are in... regulations vary from country
to country.
To answer your previous posts.. you could write to the
manufacturer/supplier and ask if removing the fitted plug would void the
warranty. I would not expect it to.
In the UK, the spur should be wired with the same cable size as the
cooker. Which will normally be 6 mm2.
The spark volts is probably being produced by a small electronics unit,
powered from the mains. The voltage is very high and will hurt. You can
get battery-powered replacement electronics units. Caravans, boats, etc
have them instead of mains ones, usually.
Be very,very careful with this! Seriously, if you make a mistake you can
easily fatally electrocute yourself, or a member of the family. That is
why plugs are moulded-on and DIY wiring of kitchens is now illegal in
England. If you miswire the cooker and make its case live, the chances
of someone getting a fatal shock in a kitchen, with water and plentiful
correctly earthed equipment around are very, very high. You probably do
not have any of the test equipment needed to check that things are as
they should be..
--
Sue
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| Palindr☻me 2005-08-23, 8:21 pm |
| Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <1124807713.062844.193540@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> "Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> writes:
>
>
>
> What's the circuit protection?
>
> If it's no more than 32A, you would be OK to add an additional
> socket outlet. Contrary to some of the other comments, you can
> do this in 2.5mm² cable, as the fuse in the plug provides the
> overload protection on this cable and the 32A MCB provides the
> fault current protection. Position the socket so it isn't
> likely to be used for anything else (cooker circuits are not
> normally RCD protected, so the socket should ideally not be
> accessible for portable appliance use).
>
> If it's more than 32A, I don't think you can use BS1363 accessory
> items on the circuit (although I don't have a copy of it to check
> in).
>
I'd use 6mm2 for a spur socket off a 6mm2 supply as it gives the
flexibility to add another socket, if needed later. Whereas, IIUC, if
you put in 2.5mm2, it would have to be upgraded before an extra socket
could be added - unless the initial spur was a 13A fused spur.
Is that ok? I am really dredging stuff that I have mostly long forgotten..
--
Sue
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| Lonely1 2005-08-24, 6:21 am |
|
Thanks Andy!!,
yes the cooker radial has a 32Amp RCD, the socket will also be placed
low down the wall next to the normal cooker outlet so not likely to
plug any other appliance in there.
Is there anywhere online where the regs can be read ? or is it just
another opportunity for the gove to make a little extra revenue ??
Lonely.
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| Lonely1 2005-08-24, 6:21 am |
|
Palindr=E2=98=BBme wrote:
> You need to say what country you are in... regulations vary from country
> to country.
UK, England.
> Be very,very careful with this! Seriously, if you make a mistake you can
> easily fatally electrocute yourself, or a member of the family. That is
> why plugs are moulded-on and DIY wiring of kitchens is now illegal in
> England. If you miswire the cooker and make its case live, the chances
> of someone getting a fatal shock in a kitchen, with water and plentiful
> correctly earthed equipment around are very, very high. You probably do
> not have any of the test equipment needed to check that things are as
> they should be..
>
> --
> Sue
Bad wiring can be fatal anywhere in the home yet we still have many
supposedly qualified electricians who either don't know what they're
doing or just don't care and a supprising amount of them seem to work
in our public services.
You mentioned in an earlier post about DIYers being able to do things
themselves so long as the work is checked out by a local body of some
kind. Is this true and where do I find the information ? again are the
regs online anywhere ??
Lonely.
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| Palindr☻me 2005-08-24, 6:21 am |
| Lonely1 wrote:
>
> Bad wiring can be fatal anywhere in the home yet we still have many
> supposedly qualified electricians who either don't know what they're
> doing or just don't care and a supprising amount of them seem to work
> in our public services.
>
> You mentioned in an earlier post about DIYers being able to do things
> themselves so long as the work is checked out by a local body of some
> kind. Is this true and where do I find the information ? again are the
> regs online anywhere ??
>
Do A Google search on "Part P". Altering a domestic electrical structure
is now much the same as altering the house structure - you need to
contact your local authority building control office. The exception is
that /companies/ can pay hundreds of pounds a year to become
self-certifying.
So, you can pay lots and get a self- certifying company to do the work.
You can pay lots and get the local authority building control office to
approve the work. You can pay lots to become a self-employed electrician
able to self-certify. You can claim that the work was done prior to 2005
and thus Part P didn't apply - which costs nothing.. I suspect a LOT of
people are chosing one particular option.
As to the regulations for adding a spur, here is one site:
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/spursocket.htm
Note that it also says that, "The spur must be connected to the existing
circuit using the same cable as used in the main circuit.". Don't rely
on anything other than the IEE regs - which I don't think are available,
in full, other than by buying the book.
--
Sue
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