Electrical Engineering - Kitchen Sink Bonding

Author

Kitchen Sink Bonding

Lonely1

2005-08-26, 6:21 am

Should the kitchen sink be bonded to the cold water pipe ? is there
ever a reason when it doesn't need to be ?

Lonely

Palindr☻me

2005-08-26, 6:21 am

Lonely1 wrote:
> Should the kitchen sink be bonded to the cold water pipe ? is there
> ever a reason when it doesn't need to be ?

I have seen an electrician bond an acrylic sink with plastic pipes, taps
and fittings. He got the plumber to insert short sections of copper
pipe in the supply in order to have something to bond to and refused to
rewire the kitchen until that had been done.

His argument was that the owners may change the sink at a later date to
a metal one and he was going to be damn sure that no one could claim
that he hadn't installed the electrics properly..

--

Sue

Lonely1

2005-08-26, 1:21 pm

:o)
But I guess that if you have a fault anywhere that connects with the
cold water system where it is copper then in theory you could still get
a shock even if you have a plastic sink and taps because water is a
pretty good conductor ?

I have a stainless steel sink and chrome taps :o) should my sink be
earthed according to the regs & is there any reason why it may not have
to be ?

I live in rented, when i moved in the sink was not bonded, so I did it,
recently the landlord has refited the kitchen and the sink as been left
unbonded again. I'm guesing that some people may think it safer not to
earth the sink with the view that if you have one hand on a faulty
eletric cooker and the other on the sink you would stand a better
chance of survival but if the cooker & its circuit are wired correctly
the cooker circuit would trip before this situation could ever arise.

I guess I'm not allowed to bond the sink myself seeing as I don't have
Part P :o) there is no justice in this counry.

Lonely

Andrew Gabriel

2005-08-26, 1:21 pm

In article <1125044725.752780.9610@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> writes:
>Should the kitchen sink be bonded to the cold water pipe ? is there
>ever a reason when it doesn't need to be ?

Which country?

In the UK, cross-bonding is not mandatory in the kitchen.
However, although not required, many electricians will
actually treat the area around the kitchen sink similarly
to rooms containing a bath or shower, where cross bonding
is required.

There are pros and cons in doing so. Generally, I do cross-
bond the area around the sink if the pipework is all metal.
If there's a 0.5m or more section of plastic pipe in all the
pipes to the sink, this is regarded as an insulator, and in
that case, it's probably better not to cross-bond the pipes
and sink, but leave it isolated.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Jaw Chewer

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

"Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:1125070157.100516.32130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> :o)
> But I guess that if you have a fault anywhere that connects with the
> cold water system where it is copper then in theory you could still get
> a shock even if you have a plastic sink and taps because water is a
> pretty good conductor ?
>
> I have a stainless steel sink and chrome taps :o) should my sink be
> earthed according to the regs & is there any reason why it may not have
> to be ?
>
> I live in rented, when i moved in the sink was not bonded, so I did it,
> recently the landlord has refited the kitchen and the sink as been left
> unbonded again. I'm guesing that some people may think it safer not to
> earth the sink with the view that if you have one hand on a faulty
> eletric cooker and the other on the sink you would stand a better
> chance of survival but if the cooker & its circuit are wired correctly
> the cooker circuit would trip before this situation could ever arise.
>
> I guess I'm not allowed to bond the sink myself seeing as I don't have
> Part P :o) there is no justice in this counry.
>
> Lonely
>

Yes u can do it yourself. Part P is only a section of the building regs.
Its not something that you have or dont have.

J. A.W. Chewer.

SQLit

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

"Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:1125044725.752780.9610@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Should the kitchen sink be bonded to the cold water pipe ? is there
> ever a reason when it doesn't need to be ?
>
> Lonely

I use plastic reinforced line sets for my sinks. There is no ground path.
Bonding is usually considered for metal that "will become energized" not
"may become energized".
You failed to mention where you are located. I have done electrical work in
the US for over 30 years and have never had to bond a sink. Other countries
or specific requirement of the AHJ of your area are excluded.

Andrew Gabriel

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

In article <1125070157.100516.32130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> writes:
>:o)
>But I guess that if you have a fault anywhere that connects with the
>cold water system where it is copper then in theory you could still get
>a shock even if you have a plastic sink and taps because water is a
>pretty good conductor ?

Actually, tap water is a poor conductor. 0.5m of plastic pipe
(with tap water in it) is regarded as an insulator for the
purposes of the wiring regs.

>I have a stainless steel sink and chrome taps :o) should my sink be
>earthed according to the regs & is there any reason why it may not have
>to be ?

See my other answer.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Lonely1

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

THAT is a real supise, honestly, so is your other reply but I'm still
not going to use electrical equipment outside when its raining :o)

I really did think bonding was a very serious erea, especially in
kitchens as well as bathrooms ?

Thanks,
Lonely

gfretwell@aol.com

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

On 26 Aug 2005 23:47:26 -0700, "Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net>
wrote:

>THAT is a real supise, honestly, so is your other reply but I'm still
>not going to use electrical equipment outside when its raining :o)
>
>I really did think bonding was a very serious erea, especially in
>kitchens as well as bathrooms ?
>
>Thanks,
>Lonely

The lack of bonding is not as serious as one would think if you have
the required GFCI protection. As soon as you add a disposal or "insta
hot" you will be bonding the sink via the ground in trhe appliance
anyway.

All that being said my stainless sink and counter is bonded with a #8
copper. I like bonding stuff.

Andrew Gabriel

2005-08-27, 8:21 pm

In article <1125125246.675042.189330@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> writes:
>THAT is a real supise, honestly, so is your other reply but I'm still
>not going to use electrical equipment outside when its raining :o)

You are mixing up the conductivity of tap water with the
conductivity of wet skin. Have a read of the following article...
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs...lasticPipes.pdf

>I really did think bonding was a very serious erea, especially in
>kitchens as well as bathrooms ?

It is a serious area. However, bonding something which is insulated
from ground and supplies is not a good move. If you are touching
something faulty which is live and then you also touch the earth
bonded item, you will receive an electric shock. If the item is not
bonded but insulated, then you won't.

--
Andrew Gabriel

peterlonz

2005-08-30, 3:21 am

Should the kitchen sink be porcelain, now gaining in popularity, I think you
could forget about bonding.

I am aware that many tens of thousands of stainless steel sink benches have
been installed with no bonding - generally due to the fact that builders &
not electricians do the installation. To my knowledge genuine accidents
resulting are practically unheard of. Make of that as you will.
Pete

"Lonely1" <mike_online@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:1125044725.752780.9610@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Should the kitchen sink be bonded to the cold water pipe ? is there
> ever a reason when it doesn't need to be ?
>
> Lonely
>

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