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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > October 2006 > Ribbin Halogen Lighting
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Ribbin Halogen Lighting
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| Veteranboy 2006-10-08, 5:25 pm |
| Can anyone tell me what the hazards are of hooking up extra track and
lights to a sysytem like this one shown below?
Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price: $589.95; per kit
Model: 2001-CLC x 5 (250)
Type: Available in Track or Cable
Track Type: Available in Cable, Low-voltage Track
Lamp Type: Available in Low Voltage Halogen
Electric Power: 300w
Glass Type: Available in Clear, Clear Colored, Frosted / Etched
Material: Glass
Color / Finish: Amber (Also available in Blue, Red, White)
Dimensions: 3.5" W x 3.75" H x 42.75" ext.
Number of Bulbs: 5
What I would like to do is purchase another kit and join them together
with only one transformer....
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| John Nice 2006-10-08, 5:25 pm |
|
"Veteranboy" <veteranboy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1160334574.420012.216600@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Can anyone tell me what the hazards are of hooking up extra track and
> lights to a sysytem like this one shown below?
>
> Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price: $589.95; per kit
>
> Model: 2001-CLC x 5 (250)
>
> Type: Available in Track or Cable
>
> Track Type: Available in Cable, Low-voltage Track
> Lamp Type: Available in Low Voltage Halogen
> Electric Power: 300w
> Glass Type: Available in Clear, Clear Colored, Frosted / Etched
> Material: Glass
> Color / Finish: Amber (Also available in Blue, Red, White)
> Dimensions: 3.5" W x 3.75" H x 42.75" ext.
Number of Bulbs: 5
What I would like to do is purchase another kit and join them together
> with only one transformer....
Have you asked the manufacturer?
John
| |
|
| You'll need a transformer that can handle double the load (600W), and
all the wiring will need to handle double the amperage (50A). The track
will also have to handle double the amperage and may not be able to.
You could use a double circuit transformer and seperately wire the
tracks. But now your buying a third transformer and a very expensive
one at that.
More track is not a problem, it's the more lights that will burn you.
(and your house!)
Richard Reid, LC
Luminous Views
Veteranboy wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what the hazards are of hooking up extra track and
> lights to a sysytem like this one shown below?
>
>
>
> Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price: $589.95; per kit
>
>
>
> Model: 2001-CLC x 5 (250)
>
>
>
> Type: Available in Track or Cable
>
>
>
> Track Type: Available in Cable, Low-voltage Track
>
>
>
> Lamp Type: Available in Low Voltage Halogen
>
>
>
> Electric Power: 300w
>
>
>
> Glass Type: Available in Clear, Clear Colored, Frosted / Etched
>
>
>
> Material: Glass
>
>
>
> Color / Finish: Amber (Also available in Blue, Red, White)
>
>
>
> Dimensions: 3.5" W x 3.75" H x 42.75" ext.
>
>
>
> Number of Bulbs: 5
>
>
>
>
> What I would like to do is purchase another kit and join them together
> with only one transformer....
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2006-10-10, 9:25 am |
| On 9 Oct 2006 09:37:26 -0700 RickR <info@luminousviews.com> wrote:
| You'll need a transformer that can handle double the load (600W), and
| all the wiring will need to handle double the amperage (50A). The track
| will also have to handle double the amperage and may not be able to.
NEC 411.2 ... not more than 25 amps per circuit. You can branch out
2 or more circuits from the same transformer, apparently, up to the
limit of a 20 amp line voltage circuit feeding the transformer. But
you'll need separate overcurrent protection for each 25 amp or lower
low voltage branch.
| You could use a double circuit transformer and seperately wire the
| tracks. But now your buying a third transformer and a very expensive
| one at that.
The tracks would need to be wired and OCP'd separately, anyway, if
the combiantion needs more than 25 amps.
| More track is not a problem, it's the more lights that will burn you.
| (and your house!)
The track can be a problem if you try to put more amps through it than
what it is rated for. The 25 amp limit above is an NEC limit. If the
track specifies a lower level of overcurrent protection, that must be
adhered to.
If you want to extend the track to cover more areas, just put in another
track and wire it separately through its own overcurrent protection.
If you want more lighting density on the same track that would exceed
the track rating or the 25 amp limit, put in another track in parallel
and interleave the lights. Just be sure to keep them at a distance if
they are uninsulated track.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2006-10-10-0537@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2006-10-10, 1:25 pm |
| On 8 Oct 2006 12:09:34 -0700 Veteranboy <veteranboy@gmail.com> wrote:
| Can anyone tell me what the hazards are of hooking up extra track and
| lights to a sysytem like this one shown below?
Fire, injury, or death, if hooked up wrong.
| Number of Bulbs: 5
What wattage per bulb? What total wattage or current with the two
tracks combined?
| What I would like to do is purchase another kit and join them together
| with only one transformer....
If your total of 10 bulbs in 2 tracks add up to not more than 240 watts,
then you can run it on a single 25 amp low voltage branch circuit. But
that itself may cause some voltage drop that can be annoying. At low
voltages, voltage drop is much more dramatic than at line voltage. You
are dealing with higher currents that give drops of more voltage, and
that voltage has a greater relative effect because it's already running
at a low voltage. Going from 120 volts down to 12 volts means voltage
drop has 100 times more impact ... for the same size wire and same power
level, the 12 volt system can only go 1/100 the distance as you can do
at 120 volts (1/25 the distance for 24 volts, 1/16 the distance for 30
volts).
But if they add up to more, then you'll bump into the 25 amp restriction
on low voltage branch circuits (or lower if the track is rated less).
That doesn't rule out a combined transformer but it does require each
branch have its own fuse or circuit breaker.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2006-10-10-0545@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
|
| Did it ever occur that the OP might not be in the USA? Or subject to
NEC?
If you read closely you'll find that your details are covered but
merely stated in a more general way, rather than instructions to an
electrician. Many track style systems are quite capable of doing
everything he wants, and to NEC codes! Most DIY kits are not.
Our goals are the same, he has a bad idea for a DIY. But if the OP
doesn't know that already then your fine points won't be understood.
phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> On 9 Oct 2006 09:37:26 -0700 RickR <info@luminousviews.com> wrote:
>
> | You'll need a transformer that can handle double the load (600W), and
> | all the wiring will need to handle double the amperage (50A). The track
> | will also have to handle double the amperage and may not be able to.
>
> NEC 411.2 ... not more than 25 amps per circuit. You can branch out
> 2 or more circuits from the same transformer, apparently, up to the
> limit of a 20 amp line voltage circuit feeding the transformer. But
> you'll need separate overcurrent protection for each 25 amp or lower
> low voltage branch.
** Such transformers are commonly available. They are generically known
as lighting transformers. Most but not all, are designed for landscape
lighting. Now that I look, the maker of the fixtures in question has
500W and 750W units in their own product line. (With double OCP
mentioned in the literature.
http://www.lightwavesconcept.com/pd...ogs/flex_II.pdf )
> | You could use a double circuit transformer and separately wire the
> | tracks. But now your buying a third transformer and a very expensive
> | one at that.
>
> The tracks would need to be wired and OCP'd separately, anyway, if
> the combination needs more than 25 amps.
**A "circuit" usually includes all the required switches, fuses and
loads. See lighting transformers. At first I thought he would have to
throw out two kit transformers and by a third. Now I see the maker has
the larger units. (Good for them!) But even so the remote transformers
are a big price jump.
> | More track is not a problem, it's the more lights that will burn you.
> | (and your house!)
>
> The track can be a problem if you try to put more amps through it than
> what it is rated for. The 25 amp limit above is an NEC limit. If the
> track specifies a lower level of overcurrent protection, that must be
> adhered to.
That's what I said. "more lights" = "put more amps through" Yes the
most common failure of LV track is when homeowners overload the track.
That is WHY the OCP is there, so they can't, accidentally or on
purpose.
The only possible problem of JUST more track for the same load is
voltage drop. There are many solutions to voltage drop with track such
as T or loop wiring, and that was way beyond the OP. The maker sells
additional track, for just that purpose!
> If you want to extend the track to cover more areas, just put in another
> track and wire it separately through its own overcurrent protection.
> If you want more lighting density on the same track that would exceed
> the track rating or the 25 amp limit, put in another track in parallel
> and interleave the lights. Just be sure to keep them at a distance if
> they are uninsulated track.
**Valid solutions, much like "You could use a double circuit
transformer and separately wire the tracks."
Cheers
RickR
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