Electrical Engineering - [POLL] What kind of job...

Author

[POLL] What kind of job...

Polvere

2006-03-25, 5:21 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm an italian telecommunication engineer (recently graduated), and, after
a brief experience in the world of job and a lot of stories from my older
university buddies, I'm feeling that italian situation is not that good for
us. I mean, almost no one can find a job where he has to draw something
from his 28 exams: most are jobs that even a techician could do (without
having to work hard at university for at least 5 years). And the job offers
speak for theirselves: "required engineering graduation / tecnical high
school degree", as it is the same...
So now...the question: is it the same for you? Do you feel that you need
your studies in your everyday job? Do you feel rewarded, after your
studies, or you feel them useless?

Thank you!
Ciao
Davide

Palindr☻me

2006-03-25, 7:21 pm

Polvere wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm an italian telecommunication engineer (recently graduated), and, after
> a brief experience in the world of job and a lot of stories from my older
> university buddies, I'm feeling that italian situation is not that good for
> us. I mean, almost no one can find a job where he has to draw something
> from his 28 exams: most are jobs that even a techician could do (without
> having to work hard at university for at least 5 years). And the job offers
> speak for theirselves: "required engineering graduation / tecnical high
> school degree", as it is the same...
> So now...the question: is it the same for you? Do you feel that you need
> your studies in your everyday job? Do you feel rewarded, after your
> studies, or you feel them useless?
>
Well, the good news is that Italian Telecommunications Engineers
(recently graduated) are well thought of, overseas, IMHO. Those that I
have met, mostly under the Leonardo Scheme, have been very well taught
and very capable and I wouldn't have hesitated in giving a job to any
one of them.

A first degree is just a key to the door - a door locked to most
non-graduates. You don't have to go through the door, there are plenty
of jobs outside. But, if you do go in, you will find that a master's
degree will widen the gap between those inside and those outside. After
your master's you can then choose whether to become even more of an
expert, and get your doctorate, or become more managerial and get an
MBA, etc. But, at the moment, you are standing in the doorway and so you
are neither totally in or out, hence you are competing against those
that are outside as well as inside..

I chose the doctorate route and yes, even though it was many years ago,
I still rely on the knowledge I picked up during my first degree. Do I
feel rewarded? Financially, not really. But every time I see something
that I designed, or helped to design, it more than makes up for it.

Italy, as I am sure that you are aware, has a fine reputation for
cutting edge telecommunications technology. It is well respected. That
didn't happen by accident but was made to happen by a lot of new
telecommunications graduates who probably wondered at the time whether
they had made a terrible mistake..

--
Sue

Phil Scott

2006-03-26, 3:21 am

--
Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.
"Polvere" <monnetti.REMOVEdavide@inwind.it> wrote in message
news:1e5xqhcsmgku2$.1qlkcz02ifg3x$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm an italian telecommunication engineer (recently
> graduated), and, after
> a brief experience in the world of job and a lot of stories
> from my older
> university buddies, I'm feeling that italian situation is
> not that good for
> us. I mean, almost no one can find a job where he has to
> draw something
> from his 28 exams: most are jobs that even a techician could
> do (without
> having to work hard at university for at least 5 years). And
> the job offers
> speak for theirselves: "required engineering graduation /
> tecnical high
> school degree", as it is the same...
> So now...the question: is it the same for you? Do you feel
> that you need
> your studies in your everyday job? Do you feel rewarded,
> after your
> studies, or you feel them useless?
>
> Thank you!
> Ciao
> Davide

Your views are well founded.... the criteria is set by
imbeciles in the Human Rescourse department, and by guys with
degrees to screen out talent.

However the degree does define the person to some extent,
especially early in a career as a person who can accomplish
something even it its irrelevant

In the US i see ads like "wanted engineer to design
petrochemical facility, MUST have degree in civil, electrical,
structural or mechanical engineering...
complete idiocy... and its comon.

also I see 'MUST have at LEAST 2 years experience' for a job
that takes 20 years to even start to get good at.

Insanity prevails in the hiring business.

Then you get on the job and it continues, read the american
comic strip 'dilbert' Scott Adams is an engineer.

The cure for that is to become world class competent in a few
areas... then they either hire you on your terms, or they hire
an idiot that cant actually do anything... then you get a call
back.

that works... you learn the high end stuff on the job by
trying to produce world class advanced results... not from
others... you learn it by pushing the bleeding edge.

then avoid HR... that level of insanity can drive you to
hostile behavior... network on the job and with vendors then
save the notes then call each of them twice a year for life to
say high...then you have a real network you can count on to
get a good job any time you want.

avoid submitting resume's... those are used to screen you
out... if I put 'pump' on my resume, some idiot assumes that I
dont dont know anything about piping... the whole mess is
going totally south.

submit a letter...describing what you have done and what you
want to do..then rely on your network...submit the resume as a
formality only, at the end.

if they are incompetent enough to want a resume on the front
end...its usually a bad sign... good people know talent. they
know the resume is mostly spin etc. Companies set up to
gather resumes, hire badly... then if you work there you are
surrounded by idiots... not the way to go.

sometimes you have to submit a resume, I screen the outfit and
HR idiot first though... I only submit it If I feel good about
the situation...its usually a mistake regardless.

Phil Scott

Ross Mac

2006-03-26, 1:21 pm

"Phil Scott" <philscott@philscott.net> wrote in message
news:e05ccp$g2f$1@news.tdl.com...
>
>
> --
> Phil Scott
> Ideas are bullet proof.
> "Polvere" <monnetti.REMOVEdavide@inwind.it> wrote in message
> news:1e5xqhcsmgku2$.1qlkcz02ifg3x$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
> Your views are well founded.... the criteria is set by imbeciles in the
> Human Rescourse department, and by guys with degrees to screen out talent.
>
> However the degree does define the person to some extent, especially early
> in a career as a person who can accomplish something even it its
> irrelevant
>
>
> In the US i see ads like "wanted engineer to design petrochemical
> facility, MUST have degree in civil, electrical, structural or mechanical
> engineering...
> complete idiocy... and its comon.
>
> also I see 'MUST have at LEAST 2 years experience' for a job that takes
> 20 years to even start to get good at.
>
> Insanity prevails in the hiring business.
>
>
> Then you get on the job and it continues, read the american comic strip
> 'dilbert' Scott Adams is an engineer.
>
> The cure for that is to become world class competent in a few areas...
> then they either hire you on your terms, or they hire an idiot that cant
> actually do anything... then you get a call back.
>
> that works... you learn the high end stuff on the job by trying to produce
> world class advanced results... not from others... you learn it by pushing
> the bleeding edge.
>
> then avoid HR... that level of insanity can drive you to hostile
> behavior... network on the job and with vendors then save the notes then
> call each of them twice a year for life to say high...then you have a real
> network you can count on to get a good job any time you want.
>
> avoid submitting resume's... those are used to screen you out... if I put
> 'pump' on my resume, some idiot assumes that I dont dont know anything
> about piping... the whole mess is going totally south.
>
> submit a letter...describing what you have done and what you want to
> do..then rely on your network...submit the resume as a formality only, at
> the end.
>
> if they are incompetent enough to want a resume on the front end...its
> usually a bad sign... good people know talent. they know the resume is
> mostly spin etc. Companies set up to gather resumes, hire badly... then
> if you work there you are surrounded by idiots... not the way to go.
>
> sometimes you have to submit a resume, I screen the outfit and HR idiot
> first though... I only submit it If I feel good about the situation...its
> usually a mistake regardless.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Phil Scott
>

Phil....you sure have got the HR departments number in MOST large companies.
I remember an open employee req. that remained unfilled for months so
finally I called and worked my way up the "imbecile ladder" at HR. They
assured me qualified applicants would be sent my way but first I should meet
with "my recruiter". So, this 22 year old kid shows up with all the latest
buzz words on his lips. He had absolutely no clue on how to sort through
applicants and even agreed when I showed him what we were doing. So instead
he just sent me everyone and anyone....none of them were qualified. I came
to find out later he was still filtering applicants based on the companies
affirmative action policy. In other words, you had to be the right color to
even get to the interview. In the end I hired an unqualified individual that
was only good for relieving minor tasks from the rest of us....This is NOT a
racial slam because my group looked like the United Nations....we just were
not getting the most qualified to the interview!
So like I said...you definitely got this one wired....Ross

george

2006-03-28, 10:21 am

"Ross Mac" <this.is.a.mung@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:ztSdnYQQUMWRIrvZRVn-iA@comcast.com...
>
> "Phil Scott" <philscott@philscott.net> wrote in message
> news:e05ccp$g2f$1@news.tdl.com...
>
> Phil....you sure have got the HR departments number in MOST large
> companies. I remember an open employee req. that remained unfilled for
> months so finally I called and worked my way up the "imbecile ladder" at
> HR. They assured me qualified applicants would be sent my way but first I
> should meet with "my recruiter". So, this 22 year old kid shows up with
> all the latest buzz words on his lips. He had absolutely no clue on how to
> sort through applicants and even agreed when I showed him what we were
> doing. So instead he just sent me everyone and anyone....none of them were
> qualified. I came to find out later he was still filtering applicants
> based on the companies affirmative action policy. In other words, you had
> to be the right color to even get to the interview. In the end I hired an
> unqualified individual that was only good for relieving minor tasks from
> the rest of us....This is NOT a racial slam because my group looked like
> the United Nations....we just were not getting the most qualified to the
> interview!
> So like I said...you definitely got this one wired....Ross
>
>
Then there are EVEN WORSE HR departments! I'm sure you've all heard what
fine fiscal shape Delphi is in...did you know that even five years ago they
shielded their HR department (that's right, the HR department!) from job
seekers!!!!!! You can only drop off a resume with their contracted security
guards and HOPE that it might get to HR. Well, at least they are getting
what they deserve! (I am sympathetic to what'll probably happen to their
workforce...outside of HR and management, that is.)

George

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