Electrical Engineering - Identifying Transformer Core Overheating Problem

Author

Identifying Transformer Core Overheating Problem

steve@websitewarehouse.com

2006-03-27, 2:21 pm

I need assistance with identifying the cause of a transformer core
overheating problem. I am not an electrical engineer but I have 20
years of experience in transformer repair.

The unit in question is a 2500/3333 KVA GTE/Sylvania dry type
transformer. The voltage is 13800 Delta - 4160Y/2400. The temperature
rise is 80=B0C at 2500 KVA and 150=B0C at 3333 KVA. The age of the unit
is approximately 20 years old.

My customer sent two of these units (identical) to me for rewinding.
According to the customer, there was nothing wrong with the units but
because they were in an area where consistent, reliable power was
necessary, they wanted to have them rewound to extend the life.

We rewound both the primary and secondary windings and sent the first
unit back to the customer. After having the unit energized for 24
hours with no load, they noticed a haze in the air. They checked the
temperature gauge which was reading about 140=B0C. Using a thermal gun,
they read the core temperature at around 175=B0C.

We assumed there was a core ground. After the unit had cooled, we
asked the customer to remove the copper strap that grounds the core to
the core frame and take a continuity reading. The reading showed that
the core and core frame were grounded. They discovered that the bolts
which hold the top core frame together had shifted during shipment and
were touching the end of the core laminations. At that point I thought
we had found the problem. They loosened the bolts and moved the core
frame over enough to break the connection between the bolts and the
laminations. Re-energizing the transformer resulted in the same
overheating problem.

We were in the process of reassembling the second unit and we took a
continuity reading. It also showed grounded. We disassembled the
transformer down to the core legs and the bottom core frame. We were
still getting a grounded reading. We did not disassemble the bottom
core frame and core legs.

After the heating problem was discovered and the second unit was
disassembled, we began to look for clues. One thing we discovered was
"bluing" of the core laminations at the bottom and the top, near the
center core leg. The unit had apparently been very hot before it was
sent to us. The customer said the max temperature prior to them
sending the unit to us was 120=B0C. He said his max load was 170 amps.
The full load current of the transformer is 463 amps. That's a load of
only 37%. At 120=B0C, the transformer was overheating at 37% load. The
FULL LOAD temperature rating of the unit is 80=B0C plus the ambient
temperature.

Despite all of this, I am still not sure that the grounding of the core
to the core frame is the problem. This is for a utility power plant
that is supposed to start back up tomorrow (March 28). Now both
transformers are down and we don't know where to go from here. Any
help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I also have
additional information (and photos) about the transformers that cannot
be posted here. Thank you.

daestrom

2006-03-27, 10:21 pm

<steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
news:1143481061.763825.13980@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
<snip long discussion about problem>

Despite all of this, I am still not sure that the grounding of the core
to the core frame is the problem. This is for a utility power plant
that is supposed to start back up tomorrow (March 28). Now both
transformers are down and we don't know where to go from here. Any
help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I also have
additional information (and photos) about the transformers that cannot
be posted here. Thank you.

Whew, cutting things close on this outage ;-)

I would agree that it seems the units were overheating before you got them
('blueing' of the iron is a good clue). As to *why*, well that's a bit
harder. You've already looked at core grounding. With the secondary wye
connected, there isn't much chance of an incorrect connection (now, if it
had been delta.....)

Core heating can be caused by lots of harmonics, but as you mentioned a
power plant, this thing probably is used to power a lot of pumps/motors and
harmonics their wouldn't seem likely.

The only other thing I can think of is saturation from applying the wrong
voltage. But if their 13.8kv delta connected, I really don't see how that
could be (unless they were meant to be 13.8kv wye, but I doubt they could
have lasted this long like that).

Frankly, that's all that comes to mind. I've worked/rewound a lot of motors
and DC stuff, but not that many transformers.

One last thing, is this a common core for all three phases? If so, would a
large phase current imbalance be something to look at?

daestrom

Tony

2006-03-27, 10:21 pm

probably it's too stupid to suggest, but did you look at the open
circuit inductance of these things? If there are shorted turns that
will find them.

steve@websitewarehouse.com

2006-03-28, 1:21 am

Tony wrote:
> probably it's too stupid to suggest, but did you look at the open
> circuit inductance of these things? If there are shorted turns that
> will find them.

I think we have isolated and identified the problem. It seems there
was a ground between the core frame and core at the bottom of the
transformer. This caused the core to become very hot at the ground
point which caused the insulating material on the laminations to burn
off in that area. Then the situation was several individual
laminations acting as a solid piece of steel.

Now the efficiency of the core has been compromised. To compensate for
this, it looks like we will be rewinding the coils again with more
turns on the primary and secondary to reduce our flux density to a more
desirable level.

Tony, one of the most frustrating things about this is that the
transformer passed every electrical test with flying colors. TTR,
insulation resistance, phase displacement, excitation, etc. If the
turns had been shorted, we would have found it in either the TTR values
or the full voltage test.

Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions and insight.

Fred Lotte

2006-03-28, 10:21 pm

In article <1143520561.249211.286160@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"steve@websitewarehouse.com" <steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote:

> Now the efficiency of the core has been compromised. To compensate for
> this, it looks like we will be rewinding the coils again with more
> turns on the primary and secondary to reduce our flux density to a more
> desirable level.

Has anybody suggested shuffling the core iron to distribute the bad pieces and eliminate the
shorts? Be sure all the burrs are facing the same way, i.e., don't turn any laminations around.

--
Fred Lotte
flotte@nospam.stratos.net

Don Kelly

2006-03-29, 12:21 am

----------------------------
<steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
news:1143520561.249211.286160@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Tony wrote:
>
> I think we have isolated and identified the problem. It seems there
> was a ground between the core frame and core at the bottom of the
> transformer. This caused the core to become very hot at the ground
> point which caused the insulating material on the laminations to burn
> off in that area. Then the situation was several individual
> laminations acting as a solid piece of steel.
>
> Now the efficiency of the core has been compromised. To compensate for
> this, it looks like we will be rewinding the coils again with more
> turns on the primary and secondary to reduce our flux density to a more
> desirable level.
>
> Tony, one of the most frustrating things about this is that the
> transformer passed every electrical test with flying colors. TTR,
> insulation resistance, phase displacement, excitation, etc. If the
> turns had been shorted, we would have found it in either the TTR values
> or the full voltage test.
>
> Thanks to everyone for the great suggestions and insight.
----------------------------------
You still will have a compromised core and excessive eddy currents. Your
problem is the 1 turn coil due to the shorted laminations. More turns may
aggravate this by making it N+:1 rather than N:1
I would suggest that the best fix would to take the core apart - smooth out
burrs etc and revarnish the laminations. This is a lot of work but may be
not much worse than rewinding and would get at the root of the problem.

--

Don Kelly @shawcross.ca
remove the X to answer

>

daestrom

2006-03-29, 8:21 pm

<steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
news:1143520561.249211.286160@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Tony wrote:
>
> I think we have isolated and identified the problem. It seems there
> was a ground between the core frame and core at the bottom of the
> transformer. This caused the core to become very hot at the ground
> point which caused the insulating material on the laminations to burn
> off in that area. Then the situation was several individual
> laminations acting as a solid piece of steel.
>
> Now the efficiency of the core has been compromised. To compensate for
> this, it looks like we will be rewinding the coils again with more
> turns on the primary and secondary to reduce our flux density to a more
> desirable level.
>

I have to agree with Don on this. If you have shorted laminations, you have
higher eddy-current losses. I would doubt the unit will last another 20
years like this. Remember, the temperature you're seeing on the unit is on
the outside surface. There could be higher temperatures inside the core and
if the heat causes more varnish to fail, well it will only get worse.

What you're doing may be acceptable for a short term fix to get the unit
back on line, but what's the cost of doing it right, versus having it fail
in the middle of a hot summer season when those MW's of unit output are
worth a lot more than now (springtime).

At least consider 'de-rating' the thing to avoid some future work putting a
lot more load on the unit.

Of course, you're a vendor/contractor for the customer and you have to weigh
that against everything. If it is the customer's recommendation, they
assume the liability. If it's yours, well how good is your insurance ;-)

daestrom

SQLit

2006-03-29, 8:21 pm

"daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:O90Wf.34960$jf2.3462@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> <steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
> news:1143481061.763825.13980@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> <snip long discussion about problem>
>
> Despite all of this, I am still not sure that the grounding of the core
> to the core frame is the problem. This is for a utility power plant
> that is supposed to start back up tomorrow (March 28). Now both
> transformers are down and we don't know where to go from here. Any
> help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I also have
> additional information (and photos) about the transformers that cannot
> be posted here. Thank you.
>
> Whew, cutting things close on this outage ;-)
>
> I would agree that it seems the units were overheating before you got them
> ('blueing' of the iron is a good clue). As to *why*, well that's a bit
> harder. You've already looked at core grounding. With the secondary wye
> connected, there isn't much chance of an incorrect connection (now, if it
> had been delta.....)
>
> Core heating can be caused by lots of harmonics, but as you mentioned a
> power plant, this thing probably is used to power a lot of pumps/motors
and
> harmonics their wouldn't seem likely.

I think your on to something here. Since the old transformer showed the same
signs. I would do a quick harmonic check of the building. Old 6 steppers,
VFD's were notorious for harmonic's back into the system.

I would also ohm the transformer ground. It would not be the first primary
transformer in an old faciltiy that was not properly grounded or floating.
At least not for me.

Let us know if you find the culprit

> The only other thing I can think of is saturation from applying the wrong
> voltage. But if their 13.8kv delta connected, I really don't see how that
> could be (unless they were meant to be 13.8kv wye, but I doubt they could
> have lasted this long like that).
>
> Frankly, that's all that comes to mind. I've worked/rewound a lot of
motors
> and DC stuff, but not that many transformers.
>
> One last thing, is this a common core for all three phases? If so, would
a
> large phase current imbalance be something to look at?
>
> daestrom
>

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