|
Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > April 2006 > Light Bulbs Blowing Frequently
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Light Bulbs Blowing Frequently
|
|
| steve@websitewarehouse.com 2006-04-17, 11:21 pm |
| I have encountered a strange problem with light bulbs. We moved into
this house in September 2004 and have since spent a small fortune on
light bulbs. The house is seven years old and everything in the panel
looks good.
The brand, the wattage, and location seem to have little effect on the
life of the bulbs. Some bulbs I have replaced twice in one week!
I began checking voltage in fixtures and outlets. My average voltage
is 124V. I have seen it as high as 127V. Someone told me that even
small overvoltages like this shorten the life of light bulbs. I
contacted my local utility and they put a voltage monitor on at my
meter. That was a couple of weeks ago and I haven't heard from them
yet.
It would be nice if I could get light bulbs to last more than 60 days.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you.
Steve Lockridge, Manager
Alfa Transformer
Fort Smith, Arkansas
| |
| TimPerry 2006-04-18, 1:21 am |
|
<steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
news:1145325674.320438.41550@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I have encountered a strange problem with light bulbs. We moved into
> this house in September 2004 and have since spent a small fortune on
> light bulbs. The house is seven years old and everything in the panel
> looks good.
>
> The brand, the wattage, and location seem to have little effect on the
> life of the bulbs. Some bulbs I have replaced twice in one week!
>
> I began checking voltage in fixtures and outlets. My average voltage
> is 124V. I have seen it as high as 127V. Someone told me that even
> small overvoltages like this shorten the life of light bulbs. I
> contacted my local utility and they put a voltage monitor on at my
> meter. That was a couple of weeks ago and I haven't heard from them
> yet.
>
> It would be nice if I could get light bulbs to last more than 60 days.
> Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you.
>
> Steve Lockridge, Manager
> Alfa Transformer
> Fort Smith, Arkansas
>
1: look for and obtain 130 volt light bulbs. they are often labeled
"industrial"
2: install dimmer switches and never turn them up to full.
3: (more expensive) install buck/boost transformer on the lighting circuits
of the house to reduce the voltage by about 10 volts.
| |
| E. Hill 2006-04-18, 1:21 am |
| +-5% appears to be acceptable for 120v service... That works out to 114v -
126v.
Here's a PG&E document for your reading:
http://www.pge.com/docs/pdfs/biz/po...e_tolerance.pdf
Some suggestions:
- Check with a neighbor to see if they also are having a voltage problem. If
they aren't, check your panel again.
- Use 130v bulbs.
- Personally, I'd ride the problem out for a little while longer, and see
what the utility company says.
Eric
<steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
news:1145325674.320438.41550@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I have encountered a strange problem with light bulbs. We moved into
> this house in September 2004 and have since spent a small fortune on
> light bulbs. The house is seven years old and everything in the panel
> looks good.
>
> The brand, the wattage, and location seem to have little effect on the
> life of the bulbs. Some bulbs I have replaced twice in one week!
>
> I began checking voltage in fixtures and outlets. My average voltage
> is 124V. I have seen it as high as 127V. Someone told me that even
> small overvoltages like this shorten the life of light bulbs. I
> contacted my local utility and they put a voltage monitor on at my
> meter. That was a couple of weeks ago and I haven't heard from them
> yet.
>
> It would be nice if I could get light bulbs to last more than 60 days.
> Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you.
>
> Steve Lockridge, Manager
> Alfa Transformer
> Fort Smith, Arkansas
>
| |
| Long Ranger 2006-04-18, 2:21 am |
|
<steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
news:1145325674.320438.41550@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I have encountered a strange problem with light bulbs. We moved into
> this house in September 2004 and have since spent a small fortune on
> light bulbs. The house is seven years old and everything in the panel
> looks good.
>
> The brand, the wattage, and location seem to have little effect on the
> life of the bulbs. Some bulbs I have replaced twice in one week!
>
> I began checking voltage in fixtures and outlets. My average voltage
> is 124V. I have seen it as high as 127V. Someone told me that even
> small overvoltages like this shorten the life of light bulbs. I
> contacted my local utility and they put a voltage monitor on at my
> meter. That was a couple of weeks ago and I haven't heard from them
> yet.
>
> It would be nice if I could get light bulbs to last more than 60 days.
> Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you.
>
> Steve Lockridge, Manager
> Alfa Transformer
> Fort Smith, Arkansas
>
Chances are, you share a transformer with a neighbor, so if they are not
experiencing the same thing, then it's probably your own wiring. If this
happens in particular places, but not all over the house, then you may have
a neutral problem. Check and see if there is a three wire circuit feeding
the problem area. If so, go through the neutral connections until you find
that high resistance, or intermittant joint. This problem would typically
manifest itself with some brightening lights. have you seen that happen?
Also, you may have a device or appliance in the house that is putting a
spike out on your system when it switches on, and / or off.. Is there
anything that causes a large sag or sudden brightness when it starts or
stops?
| |
|
| E. Hill wrote:
> +-5% appears to be acceptable for 120v service... That works out to 114v -
> 126v.
>
> Here's a PG&E document for your reading:
>
> http://www.pge.com/docs/pdfs/biz/po...e_tolerance.pdf
>
> Some suggestions:
>
> - Check with a neighbor to see if they also are having a voltage problem. If
> they aren't, check your panel again.
> - Use 130v bulbs.
> - Personally, I'd ride the problem out for a little while longer, and see
> what the utility company says.
>
> Eric
>
> <steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote in message
> news:1145325674.320438.41550@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
You could have a poor neutral connection in the panel
or meter pan.
Ed
| |
| steve@websitewarehouse.com 2006-04-18, 2:21 am |
| I will check neutral connections in the panel. This light bulb thing
is occurring all over the house so I am certain it isn't limited to one
circuit. I have new neighbors next door so I will ask them to keep an
eye on their light bulb usage. We are served by the same transformer.
The only thing I've noticed with lights dimming or getting brighter is
when a hair dryer is kicked on. I think that is limited to the circuit
in that specific bathroom. I haven't noticed anything else doing that
like the a/c unit, refrigerator, freezer, etc. I was trying to avoid
the 130V bulbs because they are more expensive. I am currently trying
out some long-life bulbs and some fluorescent replacement bulbs. I
have a fluorescent fixture in the kitchen and it has worked fine since
we moved in.
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-04-18, 3:21 am |
| On 4/17/06 7:01 PM, in article
1145325674.320438.41550@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com,
"steve@websitewarehouse.com" <steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote:
> I have encountered a strange problem with light bulbs. We moved into
> this house in September 2004 and have since spent a small fortune on
> light bulbs. The house is seven years old and everything in the panel
> looks good.
>
> The brand, the wattage, and location seem to have little effect on the
> life of the bulbs. Some bulbs I have replaced twice in one week!
>
> I began checking voltage in fixtures and outlets. My average voltage
> is 124V. I have seen it as high as 127V. Someone told me that even
> small overvoltages like this shorten the life of light bulbs. I
> contacted my local utility and they put a voltage monitor on at my
> meter. That was a couple of weeks ago and I haven't heard from them
> yet.
>
> It would be nice if I could get light bulbs to last more than 60 days.
> Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you.
>
> Steve Lockridge, Manager
> Alfa Transformer
> Fort Smith, Arkansas
>
Having recently had large voltage fluctuations at my home, from a bad
neutral connection, I urge you to check that out. In my case, the problem
was under the panel. That may not be the case for you.
You do not mention whether or not you are supplied by an Edison three-wire
+- 120V and neutral system or not. If that is the case, then a loose neutral
can be the problem, but it would take a bit more searching to find it.
In my case, I observed that the voltage between hots was about 240V just as
it should be. Various loads, however, caused the neutral voltage to bounce
up and down. If you have two meters put one between hot and neutral of one
side. Put the other meter between the other hot and neutral. The two
readings should add up to 240V even though there may be fluctuations on the
meters. This assumes that the neutral points are well connected. You might
check the voltage between the neutral and protective ground. That should be
less than a volt.
If you are truly getting 127V at an outlet with good wiring, that is
something your power company should correct. Meanwhile, a good experienced
electrician should be able to check this out for you.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| electrician@electrician2.com 2006-04-18, 3:21 am |
| <<I have encountered a strange problem with light bulbs. We moved into
this house in September 2004 and have since spent a small fortune on
light bulbs. The house is seven years old and everything in the panel
looks good.
The brand, the wattage, and location seem to have little effect on the
life of the bulbs. Some bulbs I have replaced twice in one week!
I began checking voltage in fixtures and outlets. My average voltage
is 124V. I have seen it as high as 127V. Someone told me that even
small overvoltages like this shorten the life of light bulbs. I
contacted my local utility and they put a voltage monitor on at my
meter. That was a couple of weeks ago and I haven't heard from them
yet.
It would be nice if I could get light bulbs to last more than 60 days.
Any thoughts or suggestions? Thank you.
Steve Lockridge, Manager
Alfa Transformer
Fort Smith, Arkansas >>
I used to have the same problem on the Alaska's Dew Line in 1975. I
had to keep the lights going on the troposhperic radio scatter attennae
at Barter Island. These antennae were very large and high parabolic
sections and had about 50 light bulbs on them. It required climbing up
a maze of steel ladders and relamping in extremely cold conditions and
with the wind blowing. The wind chill factor often reached 85 F below
zero. It was a XXXXX to say the least. The bulbs would last about 5
weeks and I think the radar techs used to enjoy sending me out there to
do the relamping since I was the only Alaskan Sector electrician for
all six Alaskan radar sites across the arctic on the northern coast of
Alaska. Well I fixed the problem. Since the Air Force had a ton of
money and we were contracted to them with RCA OMS I ordered dozens of
expensive beacon bulbs, the same kind I had to use to relamp beacons
atop towers and radar domes. They cost a bundle but they lasted for
months and months. I fixed those radar techie pricks and they never
knew what hit them.
I swear this story is true, ask Isaac Achuchik, the only eskimo I can
remember that still lives at Kaktovik, the vlliage near the Bar Main
Dew Line Site. LIke I have said before, I am an old cuss and have lots
of memories from 35 years working as an electrician in Alaska.
| |
|
| steve@websitewarehouse.com wrote:
> I will check neutral connections in the panel. This light bulb thing
> is occurring all over the house so I am certain it isn't limited to one
> circuit. I have new neighbors next door so I will ask them to keep an
> eye on their light bulb usage. We are served by the same transformer.
> The only thing I've noticed with lights dimming or getting brighter is
> when a hair dryer is kicked on. I think that is limited to the circuit
> in that specific bathroom. I haven't noticed anything else doing that
> like the a/c unit, refrigerator, freezer, etc. I was trying to avoid
> the 130V bulbs because they are more expensive. I am currently trying
> out some long-life bulbs and some fluorescent replacement bulbs. I
> have a fluorescent fixture in the kitchen and it has worked fine since
> we moved in.
>
You need to be *very* careful in the panel, and the problem,
if it is a loose/corroded neutral might not be there. It
might be better to diagnose it more first. The fact that
you don't see dimming/brightening argues against a bad neutral.
But that is not conclusive. Someone mentioned monitoring
with 2 meters at the same time so you can compare one
phase against the other. That's a good idea. Beyond that
you need special equipment and/or you need to get a
professional in there.
If you do have a bad neutral, it could be at any connection
from the pole to the service. The neutral connections
typically go like this: at the pole, at the drip loop,
at the meter pan and at the panel. The only place you can
get to is the panel. And the only place you can get to safely
is the telephone.
Ed
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-04-18, 6:21 pm |
| On 4/17/06 10:30 PM, in article
1145338206.893093.272980@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,
"electrician@electrician2.com" <electrician@electrician2.com> wrote:
> Well I fixed the problem. Since the Air Force had a ton of
> money and we were contracted to them with RCA OMS I ordered dozens of
> expensive beacon bulbs, the same kind I had to use to relamp beacons
> atop towers and radar domes. They cost a bundle but they lasted for
> months and months. I fixed those radar techie pricks and they never
> knew what hit them.
The lamps may have been expensive, but were they really better? Expensive
may be just because there was low manufacturing quantities. Do you know how
much output (lumens) you got per watt?
There is no problem increasing the life of the lamps by designing the
filament to work at a higher voltage--say 150 volts--if you are willing to
take lower light output. You might add some extra filament support to avoid
vibration problems.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| TimPerry 2006-04-18, 9:21 pm |
|
"Salmon Egg" <salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:C06A9E7A.2281D%salmonegg@sbcglobal.net...
> On 4/17/06 10:30 PM, in article
> 1145338206.893093.272980@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com,
> "electrician@electrician2.com" <electrician@electrician2.com> wrote:
>
>
> The lamps may have been expensive, but were they really better? Expensive
> may be just because there was low manufacturing quantities. Do you know
how
> much output (lumens) you got per watt?
this company is popular source for broadcasters and and other requiring long
life under harsh conditions. http://www.duro-test.com/
beacon lamps are not cheap but they are a bargain compared to the cost for
labor to change them.
>
> There is no problem increasing the life of the lamps by designing the
> filament to work at a higher voltage--say 150 volts--if you are willing to
> take lower light output. You might add some extra filament support to
avoid
> vibration problems.
>
> Bill
> -- Ferme le Bush
>
>
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-04-18, 11:21 pm |
| On 4/18/06 4:49 PM, in article
K6-dnarcgKqA5tjZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@adelphia.com, "TimPerry"
<timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:
> this company is popular source for broadcasters and and other requiring long
> life under harsh conditions. http://www.duro-test.com/
>
> beacon lamps are not cheap but they are a bargain compared to the cost for
> labor to change them.
By googling for data, I came up that you get about 60% of the light for a
100W long-life incandescent lamp compared to 750 hour life of an Ace
Hardware 100W lamp. While the extra cost may give a good engineering
solution, designing the filament to operate a a lower conversion efficiency
sure will sure will increase lifetime.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| Long Ranger 2006-04-19, 1:21 pm |
|
"Salmon Egg" <salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:C06AE322.228DF%salmonegg@sbcglobal.net...
> On 4/18/06 4:49 PM, in article
> K6-dnarcgKqA5tjZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@adelphia.com, "TimPerry"
> <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:
[color=darkred]
When I worked for our county government, they had a bin full of discarded
traffic and signal lamps that you could paw through and take as much as you
liked. These lamps were typically from traffic control fixtures, and were
changed on a regular schedule.Even though they were at the end of their life
as far as the county was concerned, they lasted many times longer than any
lamp you could get at the supermarket. They were also ideal for a porch
light since they were built to take shock and didn't shake the filament
loose when the door got slammed. I have bought quite a few from Grainger's
for my own use, and for use on jobs where I install in a rough service area.
They cost about 4.00 each, or more, but they are the real deal when you need
it.
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-04-19, 6:21 pm |
| On 4/19/06 8:18 AM, in article
7xs1g.23$Vn.1@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Long Ranger"
<worpylorpkins@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> "Salmon Egg" <salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:C06AE322.228DF%salmonegg@sbcglobal.net...
>
>
> When I worked for our county government, they had a bin full of discarded
> traffic and signal lamps that you could paw through and take as much as you
> liked. These lamps were typically from traffic control fixtures, and were
> changed on a regular schedule.Even though they were at the end of their life
> as far as the county was concerned, they lasted many times longer than any
> lamp you could get at the supermarket. They were also ideal for a porch
> light since they were built to take shock and didn't shake the filament
> loose when the door got slammed. I have bought quite a few from Grainger's
> for my own use, and for use on jobs where I install in a rough service area.
> They cost about 4.00 each, or more, but they are the real deal when you need
> it.
>
>
It is not that difficult to go to almost any hardware store to get a lamp
designed for rough service and long lifetime. The trouble is that they will
produce reduced light.
I am not into photography any more, but photoflood lamps were readily
available at a premium price. They were just lamps that were ordinarily
designed for 90V or whatever. They would give off a lot of light but would
last for about two hours before burning out. It did not take some
photographers very long to figure out that they could use ordinary 120V
lamps and a Variac or Powerstat to increase the voltage to where they also
burned out in two hours.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| Michael A. Terrell 2006-04-19, 7:21 pm |
| Salmon Egg wrote:
>
> It is not that difficult to go to almost any hardware store to get a lamp
> designed for rough service and long lifetime. The trouble is that they will
> produce reduced light.
>
> I am not into photography any more, but photoflood lamps were readily
> available at a premium price. They were just lamps that were ordinarily
> designed for 90V or whatever. They would give off a lot of light but would
> last for about two hours before burning out. It did not take some
> photographers very long to figure out that they could use ordinary 120V
> lamps and a Variac or Powerstat to increase the voltage to where they also
> burned out in two hours.
>
> Bill
> -- Ferme le Bush
I used to do just the opposite at a B&W TV station. I ran the 120
projector lamps at 93 to 95 volts to squeeze 300 + hours out of 20 hour
rated lamps. If I reduced the voltage an more, the system noise starred
to go up, and I would lose contrast on a lot of the 16 mm film. Also
the video was degraded on color film if the lamp was too red.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
| |
| Long Ranger 2006-04-20, 1:21 am |
| >>>> beacon lamps are not cheap but they are a bargain compared to the cost
> It is not that difficult to go to almost any hardware store to get a lamp
> designed for rough service and long lifetime. The trouble is that they
> will
> produce reduced light.
>
The traffic and signal lamps I referred to are way beyond the garden variety
"rough service" lamps stocked in the average hardware store. As far as
reduced light, it is no trouble when you buy based on lumens, rather than
wattage.
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-04-20, 2:21 am |
| On 4/19/06 8:34 PM, in article
hjD1g.3986$Fy2.1171@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Long Ranger"
<worpylorpkins@mindspring.com> wrote:
> The traffic and signal lamps I referred to are way beyond the garden variety
> "rough service" lamps stocked in the average hardware store. As far as
> reduced light, it is no trouble when you buy based on lumens, rather than
> wattage.
But your operating cost is based upon watt-hours not lumen-hours. Thus, to
get long lasting lamps, you need more power and mor bucks.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| Bud-- 2006-04-20, 12:21 pm |
| Salmon Egg wrote:
> On 4/19/06 8:34 PM, in article
> hjD1g.3986$Fy2.1171@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Long Ranger"
> <worpylorpkins@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> But your operating cost is based upon watt-hours not lumen-hours. Thus, to
> get long lasting lamps, you need more power and mor bucks.
>
> Bill
> -- Ferme le Bush
>
Energy costs are higher but replacement costs are lower; operating cost
isn't necessarily higher. And reliability/no outages is probably an
overriding factor. I believe traffic signal incandescents are being
replaced by LEDs which have much longer life.
bud--
| |
| Long Ranger 2006-04-20, 12:21 pm |
|
"Bud--" <remove.BudNews@isp.com> wrote in message
news:91a8$44479d2b$4213ea16$21245@DIALUPUSA.NET...
> Salmon Egg wrote:
>
> Energy costs are higher but replacement costs are lower; operating cost
> isn't necessarily higher. And reliability/no outages is probably an
> overriding factor. I believe traffic signal incandescents are being
> replaced by LEDs which have much longer life.
>
> bud--
>
>They have been largely replaced by LEDs around here. An added benefit to
>that is they seem to show up better than the incandescent when they have
>direct sun on them.
| |
| TimPerry 2006-04-20, 12:21 pm |
|
than[color=darkred]
>
but in the winter in the snowbelt they dont get warm enough to melt the snow
| |
| Salmon Egg 2006-04-20, 4:21 pm |
| On 4/20/06 7:55 AM, in article 91a8$44479d2b$4213ea16$21245@DIALUPUSA.NET,
"Bud--" <remove.BudNews@isp.com> wrote:
>
> Energy costs are higher but replacement costs are lower; operating cost
> isn't necessarily higher. And reliability/no outages is probably an
> overriding factor. I believe traffic signal incandescents are being
> replaced by LEDs which have much longer life.
The point I am trying to make is that it is no big deal to make a long
lasting lamp if you are willing to lower its efficiency.
There was a, what these days is politically incorrect, joke going around in
the days of tube radio. A Scotsman was give a radio as a gift. He then
complained that the light was too wee to read by.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
| |
| Michael A. Terrell 2006-04-20, 8:21 pm |
| Bud-- wrote:
>
> Salmon Egg wrote:
>
> Energy costs are higher but replacement costs are lower; operating cost
> isn't necessarily higher. And reliability/no outages is probably an
> overriding factor. I believe traffic signal incandescents are being
> replaced by LEDs which have much longer life.
>
> bud--
I'm already seeing them with groups of dead LEDs around my area.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
|
|
|
|
|