Electrical Engineering - water problem

Author

water problem

dale303@gmail.com

2006-06-23, 1:25 pm

Due to some tiles becoming misplaced in our shower, we've managed to
accidently flood the flat below's bathroom (with water dripping from
their light fitting).

Our shower has been repaired and no longer leaks but obviously has
caused the people downstairs to have to shut off their electricity
supply.

What steps now need to be taken (UK regulations)?

Do I need to get some sort of certification from a plumber that my
shower no longer leaks?

Or is it just a case of getting an electrician in downstairs to check
that the wiring is no longer affected?

Is there any other certification required?

In any case, how does and electrician go about checking such a problem
and what is the likely cost (UK)?

Rheilly Phoull

2006-06-23, 8:25 pm

dale303@gmail.com

2006-06-23, 9:25 pm

Rheilly Phoull wrote:
> dale303@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Cant you just hand it over to your insurance co ??

As I'm a tennant, my insurance is contents only. My landlord has to
deal with anything 'structural' and anything that comes with the flat.
If the damage is slight, I'm sure he'll want to deal with it without
getting insurance people involved.

Being the one in the middle and keen to keep the neighbours on the
friendly side, I want to make sure everything goes smoothly so I'm
trying to help them deal with my landlord who can sometimes be a little
slow to react to situations (what landlords aren't). If I can get all
the facts together, I'll be in a better position to speed things up and
stay in both parties good books.

electrician@electrician2.com

2006-06-24, 3:25 am

dale303@gmail.com wrote:
> Due to some tiles becoming misplaced in our shower, we've managed to
> accidently flood the flat below's bathroom (with water dripping from
> their light fitting).
>
> Our shower has been repaired and no longer leaks but obviously has
> caused the people downstairs to have to shut off their electricity
> supply.
>
> What steps now need to be taken (UK regulations)?
>
> Do I need to get some sort of certification from a plumber that my
> shower no longer leaks?
>
> Or is it just a case of getting an electrician in downstairs to check
> that the wiring is no longer affected?
>
> Is there any other certification required?
>
> In any case, how does and electrician go about checking such a problem
> and what is the likely cost (UK)?

This is a classic problem.
Turn power off.
Open all boxes and light fixtures and allow wiring and devices to dry.

Perform physical examination for damage.
For a very complete check ( not always done) - disconnect all devices,
etc and megger wires at 500 volts from wire to wire and from wire to
ground then reconnect.
Turn power on.
Check to make sure everything works.
Turn power off.
Reassemble.
Turn power on.
Check to make sure everything works.

Cost depends on size of installation. But an average time would be
about 40 hours at shop rate if there is no damage.

Palindr☻me

2006-06-24, 3:25 am

dale303@gmail.com wrote:
> Rheilly Phoull wrote:
>

Not for your neighbour. But some form of warranty from the plumber for
the work that he has done is a good idea in case a leak re-occurs.
(Although he will probably find that it is from another part of the
sytem than the one he repaired...)
[color=darkred]

There may easily be water damage to thermal insulation, to the
plasterboard of the ceiling lining, etc. It really does depend on how
much water, for how long, the structure of the ceiling etc. There was
almost certainly a pool of water on the topside of the ceiling
plasterboard which drained down through the hole, under which was the
light fitting. Any bulging, bump in the ceiling, showing the
plasterboard has sagged? Only if it was a tiny amount of water for a
very very short time can you assume no damage has been done.

However, that is your neighbour's problem and not yours - unless you
deliberately or negligently allowed the shower to leak.

The electrical aspects are usual the least of the problems and the least
expensive to fix..[color=darkred]

From the electrical pov, an electrician would probably take down the
fitting and visually check it for water, corrosion, etc. Then do a
couple of electrical checks on the circuit. Depending on the fitting, he
may simply replace it as the cost of the fittings can be very little
(depends on the fitting, of course). As it is a bathrooom, he would
almost certainly check that all the other safety requirements, eg
bonding of pipes, fittings, safety notices, etc were being complied with.

If there were no problems, I wouldn't expect it to take more than an
hour. However, these check often reveal all sorts of skeletons...

What it costs varies greatly depending on location, size of the company
and what is found. Down here in rural Devon, it would possibly be 50GBP
for a local. Central London it could be double that.[color=darkred]
>
>
> As I'm a tennant, my insurance is contents only. My landlord has to
> deal with anything 'structural' and anything that comes with the flat.
> If the damage is slight, I'm sure he'll want to deal with it without
> getting insurance people involved.

If he owns the flat below as well, things are a lot simpler..

>
> Being the one in the middle and keen to keep the neighbours on the
> friendly side, I want to make sure everything goes smoothly so I'm
> trying to help them deal with my landlord who can sometimes be a little
> slow to react to situations (what landlords aren't). If I can get all
> the facts together, I'll be in a better position to speed things up and
> stay in both parties good books.
>

I can't believe that the neighbours would accept no lighting for very
long at all, let alone no power...

--
Sue

Rheilly Phoull

2006-06-24, 9:25 am

electrician@electrician2.com wrote:
> dale303@gmail.com wrote:
>
> This is a classic problem.
> Turn power off.
> Open all boxes and light fixtures and allow wiring and devices to dry.
>
> Perform physical examination for damage.
> For a very complete check ( not always done) - disconnect all devices,
> etc and megger wires at 500 volts from wire to wire and from wire to
> ground then reconnect.
> Turn power on.
> Check to make sure everything works.
> Turn power off.
> Reassemble.
> Turn power on.
> Check to make sure everything works.
>
> Cost depends on size of installation. But an average time would be
> about 40 hours at shop rate if there is no damage.

Hmmm? 40 hrs for a bathroom sounds like a payment on the Merc' :-)
--

Cheers ......... Rheilly P

Where theres a will, I want to be in it.

dale303@gmail.com

2006-06-24, 9:25 am

Palindr=E2=98=BBme wrote:
> dale303@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Not for your neighbour. But some form of warranty from the plumber for
> the work that he has done is a good idea in case a leak re-occurs.

It was a DIY job requiring little more than a bit of silicone sealant.
I've tested the whole bath/shower area by sticking dry newspaper
underneath the entire bath area. Not a single wet patch even even
applying the shower directly to the seals. Three proper showers later
and still bone dry.

> (Although he will probably find that it is from another part of the
> system than the one he repaired...)

Not this time. Fortunately, the leak was obviously a bad seal around
the bath. The dampness under the bath cleared up pretty quickly once
the leak was identified.

>
> There may easily be water damage to thermal insulation, to the
> plasterboard of the ceiling lining, etc. It really does depend on how
> much water, for how long, the structure of the ceiling etc. There was
> almost certainly a pool of water on the topside of the ceiling
> plasterboard which drained down through the hole, under which was the
> light fitting. Any bulging, bump in the ceiling, showing the
> plasterboard has sagged? Only if it was a tiny amount of water for a
> very very short time can you assume no damage has been done.

No idea of how long it's been going on but the ceilings appear to be
solid concrete with a little rendering to smooth things out.

> However, that is your neighbour's problem and not yours - unless you
> deliberately or negligently allowed the shower to leak.
>
> The electrical aspects are usual the least of the problems and the least
> expensive to fix..
>
> From the electrical pov, an electrician would probably take down the
> fitting and visually check it for water, corrosion, etc. Then do a
> couple of electrical checks on the circuit. Depending on the fitting, he
> may simply replace it as the cost of the fittings can be very little
> (depends on the fitting, of course). As it is a bathroom, he would
> almost certainly check that all the other safety requirements, eg
> bonding of pipes, fittings, safety notices, etc were being complied with.
>
> If there were no problems, I wouldn't expect it to take more than an
> hour. However, these check often reveal all sorts of skeletons...
>
> What it costs varies greatly depending on location, size of the company
> and what is found. Down here in rural Devon, it would possibly be 50GBP
> for a local. Central London it could be double that.
>
> If he owns the flat below as well, things are a lot simpler..

The flat below, from the look of the people living there, belongs to
the council. Most of the block is privately owned these days but there
are still one or two council tenants left.

> I can't believe that the neighbours would accept no lighting for very
> long at all, let alone no power...

Things could have been sorted out earlier but they're only in a few
hours per day and aren't really willing to be flexible about times when
people come around to check their place. They must be staying elsewhere
because they were adamant that they didn't want it fixing over the
weekend. To be honest, they're a bit clueless (I'm not much better but
at least I'm trying to work out what needs to be done).

Still, that gives me a couple of days to let the place dry out more and
more time to find someone reasonable.

ehsjr

2006-06-24, 5:25 pm

dale303@gmail.com wrote:
> Palindr☻me wrote:
>
>
>
> It was a DIY job requiring little more than a bit of silicone sealant.
> I've tested the whole bath/shower area by sticking dry newspaper
> underneath the entire bath area. Not a single wet patch even even
> applying the shower directly to the seals. Three proper showers later
> and still bone dry.
>
>
>
>
> Not this time. Fortunately, the leak was obviously a bad seal around
> the bath. The dampness under the bath cleared up pretty quickly once
> the leak was identified.
>
>
>
>
> No idea of how long it's been going on but the ceilings appear to be
> solid concrete with a little rendering to smooth things out.
>
>
>
>
> The flat below, from the look of the people living there, belongs to
> the council. Most of the block is privately owned these days but there
> are still one or two council tenants left.
>
>
>
>
> Things could have been sorted out earlier but they're only in a few
> hours per day and aren't really willing to be flexible about times when
> people come around to check their place. They must be staying elsewhere
> because they were adamant that they didn't want it fixing over the
> weekend. To be honest, they're a bit clueless (I'm not much better but
> at least I'm trying to work out what needs to be done).
>
> Still, that gives me a couple of days to let the place dry out more and
> more time to find someone reasonable.
>

Get the hell out of the middle! You should not be
finding anyone. The problem is the landlord's to
fix, not yours. By putting yourself into the middle
of things, you make yourself potentially liable.
At a minimum, the neighbor can be mad at you for
what he perceives as your ineffectiveness (or whatever
other word) *because* you are involved. It's like
this: if I tell you to use "Joe's Electric Repairs"
and Joe does a bad job for you, I'm the bad guy for
advising you to use Joe's. If I say I don't know
who would be best for you to use, I'm not to blame.

Your attitude can be friendly and interested, but you
should display no specific "technical knowledge".
The only thing you "know" with respect to the problem
is that the landlord has to get someone to fix it.
Additionally, you should be on his/her case to get a
professional repair in *your* apartment. That DIY repair,
without requesting the landlord to get it repaired properly,
*is* negligence on your part.

Ed

John Gilmer

2006-06-29, 9:26 am

> This is a classic problem.
> Turn power off.
> Open all boxes and light fixtures and allow wiring and devices to dry.

!) Agree, but don't get carried away.
2) "Dry out" with cotten waste or equivalent.
3) Spray WD-40 on wires and in fixture (keeping spray off any glass.
4) Wait for WD carrier to evaporate
5) Put things back together and get it the smoke test.

Of course, the problem in the UK is that the voltages are twice as high as
in the US. This makes leakage more important.

Since everything can be opened at once, etc. it should not take more than 2
hours and perhaps less than one hour.

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