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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > October 2007 > How to wire up a RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual On/Off
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How to wire up a RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual On/Off
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| OneSolution 2007-10-04, 3:25 am |
| How can I wire this light switch that expects three wires but I have only
two coming from my circular flourescent ceiling light?
I bought the Legrand "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
Nightlight and Manual on/off" whose specifications say it's for a "single
pole circuit", 120V/60hz, 1/6HP fan, 0-600 watt incandescent or flourescent
light.
The switch has four (4) wires labelled
1. black = hot
2. white = neutral
3. red = load
4. green = ground
The instructions say
a. Connect the green wire on the switch to bare wire ground (if any)
b. Connect the white wire on the switch to the "neutral wire"
c. Connect the black wire on the switch to the "power wire"
d. Connect the red wire on the switch to the "load"
The problem is the box in the wall has only two wires.
1. black
2. white
The ground is optional so what I'm confused about is how to connect the
white wire from the circuit. Do I connect it to the red wire or the white
wire on the switch? There are no other wires in the brown plastic box.
I keep calling the technical support number 888-817-0571 but it always says
it's temporarily unavailable.
Can you advise me how to wire black/white/red on the switch to black/white
in the wall?
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| Noozer 2007-10-04, 3:25 am |
|
"OneSolution" <onesolution@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:zS_Mi.628$y21.7@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> How can I wire this light switch that expects three wires but I have only
> two coming from my circular flourescent ceiling light?
>
> I bought the Legrand "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
> Nightlight and Manual on/off" whose specifications say it's for a "single
> pole circuit", 120V/60hz, 1/6HP fan, 0-600 watt incandescent or
> flourescent
> light.
>
> The switch has four (4) wires labelled
> 1. black = hot
> 2. white = neutral
> 3. red = load
> 4. green = ground
>
> The instructions say
> a. Connect the green wire on the switch to bare wire ground (if any)
> b. Connect the white wire on the switch to the "neutral wire"
> c. Connect the black wire on the switch to the "power wire"
> d. Connect the red wire on the switch to the "load"
>
> The problem is the box in the wall has only two wires.
> 1. black
> 2. white
If you only have one black and one white, you won't be able to put your new
sensor here.
The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched on
and off and is the load. You're missing the needed neutral. You should also
have a bare copper wire, which is ground.
This is because the switch comes AFTER the light in your circuit instead of
before it.
| |
| OneSolution 2007-10-04, 3:25 am |
| On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:18:23 GMT, Noozer wrote:
> The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched on
> and off and is the load. You're missing the needed neutral. You should also
> have a bare copper wire, which is ground. This is because the switch comes
> AFTER the light in your circuit instead of before it.
Thank you Noozer for your volunteer help; I greatly appreciate the advice.
I'm a bit confused. If a circuit is a complete loop, why would it matter if
the switch is before or after the load?
Note: I do understand that the black wire in the wall is the hot (incoming
120vac) wire and that the white wires in the wall are the neutral
(outgoing, supposedly near 0vac) wires which go into the ground at every
fifth telephone pole or so. And I do understand that the bare wire (green
on the switch) is grounded to my water pipes and does not carry current
normally. But I have no idea what this red (load) wire is supposed to do.
In looking again, there is a bare copper wire inside the box as you noted,
so you know your stuff. But there certainly isn't a red wire.
While I understand your basic premise that I can't use the switch because I
don't have three wires in the box (black, white, red) to connect the three
wires on the switch (black, white, red), I still don't understand why this
circuit is different.
If it helps, I did put the switch on another wall outlet which did have a
black, a set of whites crimped together, and a red ... and the Legrand
"WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual
on/off" wall switch worked fine.
Can you explain why some of my wall boxes have only a black and a white and
ground while other boxes have a black, a set of whites crimped together,
and a red wire?
| |
| Rheilly Phoull 2007-10-04, 9:25 am |
|
"OneSolution" <onesolution@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:IT%Mi.980$lD6.175@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:18:23 GMT, Noozer wrote:
>
>
> Thank you Noozer for your volunteer help; I greatly appreciate the advice.
> I'm a bit confused. If a circuit is a complete loop, why would it matter
> if
> the switch is before or after the load?
>
> Note: I do understand that the black wire in the wall is the hot (incoming
> 120vac) wire and that the white wires in the wall are the neutral
> (outgoing, supposedly near 0vac) wires which go into the ground at every
> fifth telephone pole or so. And I do understand that the bare wire (green
> on the switch) is grounded to my water pipes and does not carry current
> normally. But I have no idea what this red (load) wire is supposed to do.
>
> In looking again, there is a bare copper wire inside the box as you noted,
> so you know your stuff. But there certainly isn't a red wire.
>
> While I understand your basic premise that I can't use the switch because
> I
> don't have three wires in the box (black, white, red) to connect the three
> wires on the switch (black, white, red), I still don't understand why this
> circuit is different.
>
> If it helps, I did put the switch on another wall outlet which did have a
> black, a set of whites crimped together, and a red ... and the Legrand
> "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual
> on/off" wall switch worked fine.
>
> Can you explain why some of my wall boxes have only a black and a white
> and
> ground while other boxes have a black, a set of whites crimped together,
> and a red wire?
It is not unusual for a switch to simply be connected to the "hot" and the
"load" (the other side of the lamp from the neutral). So then you will only
have the "hot" and the outgoing wire to the lamp fixture, thus there is no
neutral to power your electronics in the sensor.
--
Cheers .......... Rheilly P
| |
|
| The actual feed 120 volt, for the circuit can be run to the switch, as it
was where you found the two white wires crimped together, or the feed can be
run to the light fixture. If it's run to the light fixture, the neutral
wires don't need to be run down to the switch, so only the "hot" wire is run
down and back from the switch. Not all occupancy sensor switches require a
neutral to operate. Some will work with only the two wires, although I'm not
sure they would work with a fluorescent fixture
"Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigpong.com.au> wrote in message
news:4704b43f$0$3617$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> "OneSolution" <onesolution@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:IT%Mi.980$lD6.175@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> It is not unusual for a switch to simply be connected to the "hot" and the
> "load" (the other side of the lamp from the neutral). So then you will
> only have the "hot" and the outgoing wire to the lamp fixture, thus there
> is no neutral to power your electronics in the sensor.
> --
> Cheers .......... Rheilly P
>
| |
| John Grabowski 2007-10-04, 9:25 am |
|
"OneSolution" <onesolution@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:IT%Mi.980$lD6.175@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:18:23 GMT, Noozer wrote:
>
on[color=darkred]
also[color=darkred]
comes[color=darkred]
>
> Thank you Noozer for your volunteer help; I greatly appreciate the advice.
> I'm a bit confused. If a circuit is a complete loop, why would it matter
if
> the switch is before or after the load?
>
> Note: I do understand that the black wire in the wall is the hot (incoming
> 120vac) wire and that the white wires in the wall are the neutral
> (outgoing, supposedly near 0vac) wires which go into the ground at every
> fifth telephone pole or so. And I do understand that the bare wire (green
> on the switch) is grounded to my water pipes and does not carry current
> normally. But I have no idea what this red (load) wire is supposed to do.
>
> In looking again, there is a bare copper wire inside the box as you noted,
> so you know your stuff. But there certainly isn't a red wire.
>
> While I understand your basic premise that I can't use the switch because
I
> don't have three wires in the box (black, white, red) to connect the three
> wires on the switch (black, white, red), I still don't understand why this
> circuit is different.
>
> If it helps, I did put the switch on another wall outlet which did have a
> black, a set of whites crimped together, and a red ... and the Legrand
> "WattStopper RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with Nightlight and Manual
> on/off" wall switch worked fine.
>
> Can you explain why some of my wall boxes have only a black and a white
and
> ground while other boxes have a black, a set of whites crimped together,
> and a red wire?
If the switch was wired according to generally accepted practices, the white
wire is probably the hot and the black wire is the load. A simple bulb and
pigtail socket can confirm this. Check each wire to ground. You need a
neutral to operate the WattStopper just like you need a neutral to operate
the light fixture. You do not have a neutral so you cannot use the
WattStopper to replace this switch. The alternative is to rewire the switch
with a three wire cable from the ceiling light.
In this case the original installer found it easiest to just run a switch
leg to the wall switch from the ceiling light to interrupt current going to
the light fixture. If you were to remove the light fixture and look in the
ceiling box you may see that the white wire from the switch is connected to
a black hot wire and tucked into the back of the box. You should also see
the black wire from the switch connected to the light fixture and a white
neutral wire connected to the light fixture as well.
Other wall boxes may have more wires in them because the original installer
chose to use them as junction boxes to make splices so that other outlets,
switches, or lights can be fed from those particular locations. Either way
is acceptable. Lately I have been running my feeds through the switch box
because of instances such as yours when a neutral is required.
| |
| Long Ranger 2007-10-04, 9:25 am |
|
"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message
news:PA%Mi.284037$fJ5.225346@pd7urf1no...
>
> "OneSolution" <onesolution@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:zS_Mi.628$y21.7@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
>
> If you only have one black and one white, you won't be able to put your
> new sensor here.
>
> The black is always on and is the power. The white is what is switched on
> and off and is the load.
Going by the NEC, the white is the feed to the switch, and the black feeds
the load. You are not allowed to use a white wire to carry the "hot" at the
point of consumption.
| |
| OneSolution 2007-10-04, 1:25 pm |
| On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 05:25:42 -0700, Long Ranger wrote:
> Going by the NEC, the white is the feed to the switch, and the black feeds
> the load. You are not allowed to use a white wire to carry the "hot" at the
> point of consumption.
On my way to work today, I finally got through to WattStopper Legrand at
+1-888-817-0571. The support guy answered immediately. Twice (I lost the
call when I moved from one cell to another).
The guy looked up the spec for the "RS-150BA-N Vacancy Sensor Switch with
Nightlight and Manual On/Off". What he told me was more in line with John
Grabowski than that above.
He said:
1. Generally when you have a white/black/bare in the wall box, the white is
the HOT wire (not the black!).
2. The switch will work with two wires but the night light won't light.
3. It should work fine with flourescent or incandescent, even with just two
of the four wires on the switch hooked up (white/black/red/green).
He specifically said to wire in this order:
1. Tie the ground (bare) wire in the wall to the green in the switch.
2. Tie the load (black) in the wall to the white wire in the switch
3. Tie the hot (white) in the wall to the black wire in the switch
I'll try it tonight when I get back from work. He said this isn't the
optimal confuration but only the night-light LED won't work.
It's too hard to connect the green (ground) wire to the bare wire as the
bare wire doesn't have any connection anywhere in the box. Do you think
that will matter if I don't connect the green wire (I think it's optional)?
Thanks for all your wonderful volunteer help!
| |
| Robert L Bass 2007-10-04, 1:25 pm |
| "OneSolution" wrote:
>
> He said:
> 1. Generally when you have a white/black/bare in the wall box, the
> white is the HOT wire (not the black!).
At an outlet box it is generally exactly the opposite. Neutral is
white. Hot is black. Ground is green or bare. In a switch box the
white is often the unswitched hot and the black is switched hot
though some people reverse that.
> 2. The switch will work with two wires but the night light won't
> light.
That depends. In switches in my home the night light is wired across
the switch. If the light is on the night light is off and vice
versa. However, if the bulb goes out the night light doesn't work
either because the circuit is open.
No doubt the switches you're using are of a different design.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>
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