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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > February 2007 > "Variable heat" electric range available anywhere?
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"Variable heat" electric range available anywhere?
|
|
|
| Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can adjust
how much light is output from the bulb.
The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for quite
awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time, then off
for a little amount of time.
With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and on.
Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
| |
|
| On Feb 12, 12:03 pm, "Bill" <bill190nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can adjust
> how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for quite
> awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time, then off
> for a little amount of time.
>
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and on.
> Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
Our rough and ready electric cooking range seems to work well enough.
It has two larger and two smaller elements on top. Each 'burner' has
one of those rotary thermal controls. They last a long time; we have
rarely replaced one.
Also the usual top and bottom elements in the oven controlled by the
clock/timer and a thermostat.
Seems to be no problem setting any element to Full, or Low or anything
in between.
I think you are correct; but it would require a thermostatic control
for each element'. More complicated, more wiring and more expensive.
Do not see the practical need. Cooking requires attention in any case;
something as simple as sliding a pan off centre of a 'burner' (hob)
can slightly alter the cooking and improve/ruin an omelet!
| |
| Peter A 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| In article <53bdubF1rb0p1U1@mid.individual.net>, bill190nospam@yahoo.com
says...
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can adjust
> how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for quite
> awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time, then off
> for a little amount of time.
>
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and on.
> Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
>
>
>
Why do you want this? The on/off technique works just fine in my
experience. The thermal mass of the burner and the pan even things out.
For example, when I am simmering a soup on low, the soup simmers at an
even, constant rate even though the element is on for 2 seconds then off
for 10 (more or less).
Microwave ovens work the same way, although I have some vague
recollection that some fancy models have variable power.
--
Peter Aitken
| |
|
| "Peter A" wrote in message
>
> Why do you want this?
>
Well I installed a woodstove and tried cooking on it. I cooked eggs and
noticed they came out perfect!
When I cook eggs on my electric range, they will tend to stick to the bottom
of the pan or overheat / underheat.
Anyway the difference between cooking on the woodstove and on my electric
range is amazing! The difference of course is the "steady heat" of the wood
stove as opposed to the "on/off" heat of the electric range.
And of course I don't have my woodstove fired up in the summer....
| |
| Steve Barker 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| I think the main question here is why would anyone who does any serious
amount of cooking want an electric range to begin with? No real cooking can
be done on them.
--
Steve Barker
"Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:53bdubF1rb0p1U1@mid.individual.net...
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can
> adjust how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for
> quite awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time,
> then off for a little amount of time.
>
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and
> on. Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
>
>
| |
| JoeSpareBedroom 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| "Steve Barker" <ichasetrains@some.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s9idnZuKdYBpDk3YnZ2dnUVZ_v6tnZ2d@giganews.com...
>I think the main question here is why would anyone who does any serious
>amount of cooking want an electric range to begin with? No real cooking
>can be done on them.
>
> --
> Steve Barker
Bullshit. Who told you to say that?
| |
| James Silverton 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| Hello, JoeSpareBedroom!
You wrote on Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:27:24 GMT:
J> "Steve Barker" <ichasetrains@some.yahoo.com> wrote in
J> message
news:s9idnZuKdYBpDk3YnZ2dnUVZ_v6tnZ2d@giganews.com...
??>> I think the main question here is why would anyone who
??>> does any serious amount of cooking want an electric range
??>> to begin with? No real cooking can be done on them.
??>>
??>> --
??>> Steve Barker
You probably have noticed the massive cross-posting on this
topic: a pretty good troll indicator, IMHO!
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not
| |
| Nancy Young 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
|
"Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> wrote
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
If you're talking about the stovetop, perhaps a diffuser would help
your situation if you can't find what you're looking for.
nancy
| |
| Lou Decruss 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:22:38 -0600, "Steve Barker"
<ichasetrains@some.yahoo.com> wrote:
>I think the main question here is why would anyone who does any serious
>amount of cooking want an electric range to begin with? No real cooking can
>be done on them.
Nonsense. Maybe 50 years ago, but today electric smoothtops have
just as much heat and control as gas.
Lou
| |
| Mike Berger 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| I think you're jumping to conclusions. I doubt it's any variation
in heat that's making the difference.
Bill wrote:
> "Peter A" wrote in message
>
> Well I installed a woodstove and tried cooking on it. I cooked eggs and
> noticed they came out perfect!
>
> When I cook eggs on my electric range, they will tend to stick to the bottom
> of the pan or overheat / underheat.
>
> Anyway the difference between cooking on the woodstove and on my electric
> range is amazing! The difference of course is the "steady heat" of the wood
> stove as opposed to the "on/off" heat of the electric range.
>
> And of course I don't have my woodstove fired up in the summer....
>
>
| |
| Sheldon 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 12, 10:03?am, "Bill" <bill190nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can adjust
> how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for quite
> awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time, then off
> for a little amount of time.
>
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and on.
> Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
Electric cook tops do not cycle on and off, only the oven does because
it is thermostatically controlled, exactly the same as with gas
ovens. I don't think you understand your own question... I think what
you want is an electric cooktop with a constantly varible control
rather than with preset detents as most all incorporate, but such a
system would serve no purpose because you cannot visually interpolate
the heat setting directly as one can with an open flame... having
preset detents makes more sense with electric cooking. If you really
want constant variable control buy an inexpensive electric hot
plate... perhaps buy an electric fry pan... or get a gas stove.
Sheldon
| |
| Sheldon 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 12, 11:48=EF=BF=BDam, Lou Decruss <LouDecr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:22:38 -0600, "Steve Barker"
>
> <ichasetra...@some.yahoo.com> wrote:
ng can[color=darkred]
>
> today electric smoothtops have just as much control as gas.
Bullshit. Who told you to say that?
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . . .
Sheldon
| |
| Sheldon 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 12, 11:45?am, "Nancy Young" <rjy...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Bill" <bill190nos...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>
> If you're talking about the stovetop, perhaps a diffuser would help
> your situation if you can't find what you're looking for.
Electric cooktops maintain constant heat (as do gas), Electric element
cooktops are just not instantly responsive. If one wants the best of
both worlds they need to consider induction cooking, but will also
amplify the worst of both worlds. All things considered, for
precision cooking nothing to date beats gas.
Sheldon
| |
| trader4@optonline.net 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 12, 12:06 pm, "Sheldon" <PENMAR...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 10:03?am, "Bill" <bill190nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Electric cook tops do not cycle on and off, only the oven does because
> it is thermostatically controlled, exactly the same as with gas
> ovens.
Of course they cycle on and off, that's how they control the amount of
heat. What do you think they use, a big resistor?
I don't think you understand your own question... I think what
> you want is an electric cooktop with a constantly varible control
> rather than with preset detents as most all incorporate, but such a
> system would serve no purpose because you cannot visually interpolate
> the heat setting directly as one can with an open flame... having
> preset detents makes more sense with electric cooking.
I understood his question. What he wants is an electric range
element that produces a more uniform and more constant heat, as
opposed to cycling on and off for many secs at a time. I too
question how important that is, but that's what he wants. And not
all electric ranges have detent settings. My Jenn-Aire has a smooth,
constantly variable control. But the element behaves exactly as he
describes, going on and off for many secs at a time, depending on how
high the setting is.
If you really
> want constant variable control buy an inexpensive electric hot
> plate... perhaps buy an electric fry pan... or get a gas stove.
I'm not sure an electric hot plate or electric fry pan behaves any
different. I think they all apply full current to the heating
element, and just cycle in on or off for varying duty cycles. What
he wants could be done with that approach, but requires varying the
duty cycle on cycles of very short duration.
>
> Sheldon
| |
| Peter A 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| In article <s9idnZuKdYBpDk3YnZ2dnUVZ_v6tnZ2d@giganews.com>,
ichasetrains@some.yahoo.com says...
>
> I think the main question here is why would anyone who does any serious
> amount of cooking want an electric range to begin with? No real cooking can
> be done on them.
>
>
Absolute drivel. Anyone who cannot figure out how to use an electric
range for any and all cooking is a feeble-minded nitwit. See
http://www.pgacon.com/KitchenMyths.htm (scroll down to "Gas stoves are
better than electric").
--
Peter Aitken
| |
| Peter A 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| In article <DdadnbXfltyhCk3YnZ2dnUVZ_uCinZ2d@comcast.com>, "James
Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not> says...
> You probably have noticed the massive cross-posting on this
> topic: a pretty good troll indicator, IMHO!
>
You are right - I had not noticed, I should pay more attention to this!
--
Peter Aitken
| |
| ranck@vt.edu 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| In rec.food.cooking trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> On Feb 12, 12:06 pm, "Sheldon" <PENMAR...@aol.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Of course they cycle on and off, that's how they control the amount of
> heat. What do you think they use, a big resistor?
Yes, of course they do. Sheldon is making up crap because
he doesn't really know how electrical appliances work.
> I don't think you understand your own question... I think what
More nonsense. Most of the electric cooktops I've encountered had
continuously variable settings, with perhaps a detent for highest and
lowest, but they still cycle the heating element full-on/full-off
with overall heat being controlled by the duty cycle.
[color=darkred]
> If you really
[color=darkred]
> I'm not sure an electric hot plate or electric fry pan behaves any
> different. I think they all apply full current to the heating
> element, and just cycle in on or off for varying duty cycles. What
> he wants could be done with that approach, but requires varying the
> duty cycle on cycles of very short duration.
Exactly right. I think what the OP might want to look at is
an inductive cooktop. Expensive, and I'm not sure how they
achieve their variable heat settings, it may just be a duty cycle
switching type of control also, but they are supposed to have
very steady heat control.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.
| |
| Dee Dee 2007-02-12, 1:25 pm |
| On Feb 12, 10:03 am, "Bill" <bill190nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can adjust
> how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for quite
> awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time, then off
> for a little amount of time.
>
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and on.
> Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
Please read it thru -
So it seems! that with a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is
constant. If you want to adjust the heat -- , say, if you could even
begin to calibrate it in your own mind, let alone in actuality -- from
a heat setting to 1.2 to 1.4, you would be hard pressed to judge how
much heat you had added to get it that .2 degrees. You could very well
overshoot and not have that .2 change. I always wonder if the gas
coming out is indeed a constant at any rate. But be that as it may:
My electric range has adjustment increments: 1; 1.2; 1.4; 1.6; 1.8 and
so on up thru 10. If I adjust it from 1.2 to 1.4, the element will
come on long enough to get it to 1.4. Mere seconds? I don't know. But
I'll bet the higher heat isn't ON as long as it might be mis-
calculated if you turned up the gas-burner knob.
The problem for you it seems to me is that you don't like the burner
coming on to catch up when it is falling from 1.2 to 1.0.
I think if you have an electric range that is fine-tuned in the tenths
degree you will find that these catch-up/heat-up times make such a
small as to be unnoticeable difference.
I know -- I was worried about it myself. I considered gas for that
very reason, but I am satisfied that this is the ticket!
Dee
| |
| Chris Friesen 2007-02-12, 5:25 pm |
| Lou Decruss wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:22:38 -0600, "Steve Barker"
> <ichasetrains@some.yahoo.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Nonsense. Maybe 50 years ago, but today electric smoothtops have
> just as much heat and control as gas.
There's an element of truth to it. Unless you use an induction element,
you cannot turn an electric element *down* quickly...it takes some time
for the heat in the element to dissipate.
Also, commercial-grade gas ranges have heat outputs that far exceed
electric ranges (and indeed most residential gas ranges). This can be
useful for some types of cooking.
Chris
| |
| Sharon 2007-02-12, 5:25 pm |
| In article <MPG.203a5813a8cc8a57989a22@news-server.nc.rr.com>, Peter A <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> writes:
> In article <53bdubF1rb0p1U1@mid.individual.net>, bill190nospam@yahoo.com
> says...
> Why do you want this? The on/off technique works just fine in my
> experience. The thermal mass of the burner and the pan even things out.
> For example, when I am simmering a soup on low, the soup simmers at an
> even, constant rate even though the element is on for 2 seconds then off
> for 10 (more or less).
I'm with the OP. I was just commenting that this kind of thing would
be nice to my husband yesterday as I was making our week's dinners. We have a
piss-poor glass-topped electric stove. We think it's crappy because it might
be low-watt, but don't know for sure. It can't boil a gallon of water unless
it's tightly lidded, and even then it takes over a half an hour.
Last weekend, I was making a roux, and I really noticed how poor it is
there too. I had trouble getting the correct temp to cook the roux - it cooked
fine while the burner was on, but all cooking stopped when the burner cycled
off. We HATE the thing.
- Sharon
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"
| |
| JoeSpareBedroom 2007-02-12, 5:25 pm |
| "Sharon" <frey@encompasserve.org> wrote in message
news:1z9WbWGzLL1a@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> In article <MPG.203a5813a8cc8a57989a22@news-server.nc.rr.com>, Peter A
> <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> writes:
>
> I'm with the OP. I was just commenting that this kind of thing would
> be nice to my husband yesterday as I was making our week's dinners. We
> have a
> piss-poor glass-topped electric stove. We think it's crappy because it
> might
> be low-watt, but don't know for sure. It can't boil a gallon of water
> unless
> it's tightly lidded, and even then it takes over a half an hour.
> Last weekend, I was making a roux, and I really noticed how poor it is
> there too. I had trouble getting the correct temp to cook the roux - it
> cooked
> fine while the burner was on, but all cooking stopped when the burner
> cycled
> off. We HATE the thing.
>
> - Sharon
> "Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"
You cannot compare a crappy glass top stove with a well designed electric
open-coil stove. That's like saying you like a certain shampoo better than
you like the size of the glove box in your car.
| |
| Dee Dee 2007-02-12, 5:25 pm |
| On Feb 12, 2:58 pm, Chris Friesen <cbf...@mail.usask.ca> wrote:
> Lou Decruss wrote:
>
> There's an element of truth to it. Unless you use an induction element,
> you cannot turn an electric element *down* quickly...it takes some time
> for the heat in the element to dissipate.
> Chris
I bought two Berghof induction units, and like them. As far as
turning down an induction element quickly, the induction plate/element
still holds the heat from the pan, while it is being turned down. I
have not tried the induction by turning it from a 10 to a 1 to see how
long it takes to stop boiling; vs. turning the range unit from a 10
to a 1 to see how long it will take to stop boiling.
>From cooking with both, but neither one for a loooooong time, I would
say the induction takes less time to stop boiling.
However, this was not the question, I realize, as the OP's emphasis is
on creating a invariable/non-variable heat.
Dee
| |
| Peter A 2007-02-12, 5:25 pm |
| In article <1z9WbWGzLL1a@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
frey@encompasserve.org says...
> In article <MPG.203a5813a8cc8a57989a22@news-server.nc.rr.com>, Peter A <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> writes:
>
> I'm with the OP. I was just commenting that this kind of thing would
> be nice to my husband yesterday as I was making our week's dinners. We have a
> piss-poor glass-topped electric stove. We think it's crappy because it might
> be low-watt, but don't know for sure. It can't boil a gallon of water unless
> it's tightly lidded, and even then it takes over a half an hour.
> Last weekend, I was making a roux, and I really noticed how poor it is
> there too. I had trouble getting the correct temp to cook the roux - it cooked
> fine while the burner was on, but all cooking stopped when the burner cycled
> off. We HATE the thing.
>
Sounds awful, but it has nothing to do with it being electric. A decent
electric stove will boil water faster than a gas stove and is usually
superior at low-heat cooking. Time for a replacement maybe?
| |
| Dave Martindale 2007-02-12, 5:25 pm |
| "Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> writes:
>Well I installed a woodstove and tried cooking on it. I cooked eggs and
>noticed they came out perfect!
>When I cook eggs on my electric range, they will tend to stick to the bottom
>of the pan or overheat / underheat.
>Anyway the difference between cooking on the woodstove and on my electric
>range is amazing! The difference of course is the "steady heat" of the wood
>stove as opposed to the "on/off" heat of the electric range.
There are many possible explanations for this. Perhaps you just pay
more attention when cooking on the woodstove. Perhaps the large flat
iron cooking surface of the wood stove heats your pan more evenly than a
coil element on the electric stove. Or maybe the cyclic temperature
variations do matter. You haven't provided any evidence for the latter
explanation.
It would be interesting to measure the amount of temperature swing at
the surface of your electric element as the element cycles on and off.
Then measure it on the inside surface of the pan. I'll bet the
temperature range is not very large.
Dave
| |
| JoeSpareBedroom 2007-02-12, 5:25 pm |
| "Dave Martindale" <davem@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message
news:eqqolf$31j$1@swain.cs.ubc.ca...
> "Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>
>
>
> There are many possible explanations for this. Perhaps you just pay
> more attention when cooking on the woodstove. Perhaps the large flat
> iron cooking surface of the wood stove heats your pan more evenly than a
> coil element on the electric stove. Or maybe the cyclic temperature
> variations do matter. You haven't provided any evidence for the latter
> explanation.
>
> It would be interesting to measure the amount of temperature swing at
> the surface of your electric element as the element cycles on and off.
> Then measure it on the inside surface of the pan. I'll bet the
> temperature range is not very large.
>
> Dave
Coming to conclusions while missing 90% of the pertinent information is a
great American pastime, apparently.
| |
| ms_peacock 2007-02-12, 8:25 pm |
|
"Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:53bdubF1rb0p1U1@mid.individual.net...
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can
> adjust how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for
> quite awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time,
> then off for a little amount of time.
>
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and
> on. Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
>
I've had numerous electric stoves over the years and the elements don't go
on and off on any of them. They already use a "dimmer switch." The heat is
constant at whatever setting you put the dial.
I had one stove that had an element that was thermostatically controlled and
it did vary the heat. But it didn't just go off and on, as the temp of the
food came up the element would lower the heat output to maintain the temp.
I still miss that stove, it also had an oven and a half.
Ms P
| |
| Matthew L. Martin 2007-02-12, 8:25 pm |
| ranck@vt.edu wrote:
>
> Exactly right. I think what the OP might want to look at is
> an inductive cooktop. Expensive, and I'm not sure how they
> achieve their variable heat settings, it may just be a duty cycle
> switching type of control also, but they are supposed to have
> very steady heat control.
The very few experiences I have had with induction cook tops showed me
that they have an on/off duty cycle that controls the heat production.
Matthew
--
I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
| |
| JoeSpareBedroom 2007-02-12, 8:25 pm |
| <ranck@vt.edu> wrote in message news:eqqd17$an1$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu...
>
> Exactly right. I think what the OP might want to look at is
> an inductive cooktop.
What the OP "wants" to look at are his cooking habits. Every stove will have
quirks, and there are people who will notice none of those quirks and always
want to buy something else. Cooking involves a certain amount of attention.
The only way around it is a restaurant.
| |
|
| On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:13:12 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
<dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Dave Martindale" <davem@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message
>news:eqqolf$31j$1@swain.cs.ubc.ca...
>
>
>Coming to conclusions while missing 90% of the pertinent information is a
>great American pastime, apparently.
>
That's normal. It's a lot easier to ignore 90% or more of what you
heard, and make up stuff to fill the gap.
| |
| wff_ng_7 2007-02-12, 8:25 pm |
| "ms_peacock" <ms_peacock@wbsnospam.org> wrote:
> I've had numerous electric stoves over the years and the elements don't go
> on and off on any of them. They already use a "dimmer switch." The heat
> is constant at whatever setting you put the dial.
>
> I had one stove that had an element that was thermostatically controlled
> and it did vary the heat. But it didn't just go off and on, as the temp
> of the food came up the element would lower the heat output to maintain
> the temp. I still miss that stove, it also had an oven and a half.
In reality, those electric stoves were going on and off the whole time, and
you never noticed! If you have a very quiet kitchen and you listen very
carefully, you can hear the switch turn the burner off and on. The "dimmer
switch" is adjusting how long the "on" time is versus the "off" time. The
owner's manual on my 1982 GE electric range even mentioned the noise the
switch made in the troubleshooting section, to put to rest the minds of
people who noticed the sound.
Even dimmer switches for lights are in a way turning the light on and off to
adjust the light intensity. The dimmer switch is varying the amount of time
the light bulb filament is turned on versus turned off. Only it is happening
60 times a second versus every several seconds as on an electric stove
burner. The principle is basically the same, but on dimmers the controls are
solid state electronics, while on a stove burner the controls are
mechanical. It would be costly to make a solid state electronic control to
handle the power required for a surface burner. Most light dimmers are 300
watts capacity. A surface burner is about 2,500 watts.
This cycling of the burner is different than thermostatic control. What it
is doing is keeping the burner on for a percentage of the total time, giving
a proportional heat output, regardless of how hot the pan ends up getting.
There are thermostatically controlled surface burners out there, but they
are not that common.
| |
| JoeSpareBedroom 2007-02-13, 3:25 am |
| "Sam E" <no.email@all.invalid> wrote in message
news:h362t2lplgjmmo9unb84ffrtmearet2f3f@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:13:12 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> <dishborealis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's normal. It's a lot easier to ignore 90% or more of what you
> heard, and make up stuff to fill the gap.
"Contrary to recorded weather data from 7 independent scientifical sources,
and reports from over 4,300 farmers, we has conclusiatious evidences that Mr
Al Qaeda is responsiblatious for the shortage of them brocollis from
California during the last past two or couples of weeks". - George W. Bush
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2007-02-13, 1:25 pm |
| On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 02:04:41 GMT, "wff_ng_7" <nosuchuser@invalid.gov>
wrote:
>"ms_peacock" <ms_peacock@wbsnospam.org> wrote:
>
>In reality, those electric stoves were going on and off the whole time, and
>you never noticed! If you have a very quiet kitchen and you listen very
>carefully, you can hear the switch turn the burner off and on. The "dimmer
>switch" is adjusting how long the "on" time is versus the "off" time. The
>owner's manual on my 1982 GE electric range even mentioned the noise the
>switch made in the troubleshooting section, to put to rest the minds of
>people who noticed the sound.
>
>Even dimmer switches for lights are in a way turning the light on and off to
>adjust the light intensity. The dimmer switch is varying the amount of time
>the light bulb filament is turned on versus turned off. Only it is happening
>60 times a second versus every several seconds as on an electric stove
>burner. The principle is basically the same, but on dimmers the controls are
>solid state electronics, while on a stove burner the controls are
>mechanical. It would be costly to make a solid state electronic control to
>handle the power required for a surface burner. Most light dimmers are 300
>watts capacity. A surface burner is about 2,500 watts.
>
>This cycling of the burner is different than thermostatic control. What it
>is doing is keeping the burner on for a percentage of the total time, giving
>a proportional heat output, regardless of how hot the pan ends up getting.
>There are thermostatically controlled surface burners out there, but they
>are not that common.
The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
"med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off"). BTW, it also had a 120V
outlet on it. I guess people usually didn't have enough countertop
outlets then.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy
| |
| Tzortzakakis Dimitrios 2007-02-13, 1:25 pm |
|
Ο "Bill" <bill190nospam@yahoo.com> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:53bdubF1rb0p1U1@mid.individual.net...
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can
adjust
> how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for
quite
> awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time, then off
> for a little amount of time.
>
Well, traditionally stoves (or ranges) here in EU (certainly in Greece) have
3 elements for each hob, and a dial for each hob, that is numbered from 0 to
3 with 1/2 subdivisions(thus 0-1/2-1-11/2...)and the three elements are
turned on and off, respectively.So, for full heat, all 3.For 1/2 set.the
smallest one etc.
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and
on.
> Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
>
>
--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
| |
| Tzortzakakis Dimitrios 2007-02-13, 1:25 pm |
|
Ο "Sharon" <frey@encompasserve.org> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:1z9WbWGzLL1a@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> In article <MPG.203a5813a8cc8a57989a22@news-server.nc.rr.com>, Peter A
<paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> writes:
you[color=darkred]
>
> I'm with the OP. I was just commenting that this kind of thing would
> be nice to my husband yesterday as I was making our week's dinners. We
have a
> piss-poor glass-topped electric stove. We think it's crappy because it
might
> be low-watt, but don't know for sure. It can't boil a gallon of water
unless
> it's tightly lidded, and even then it takes over a half an hour.
> Last weekend, I was making a roux, and I really noticed how poor it is
> there too. I had trouble getting the correct temp to cook the roux - it
cooked
> fine while the burner was on, but all cooking stopped when the burner
cycled
> off. We HATE the thing.
Well, excuse me, but in EU (at least in Greece)glass-topped electric stoves
are state-of-the-art, and very expensive, and very robust, and efficient,
too.The traditional stove has four hobs with the elements inside a ring of
iron (not steel),ours is glass-topped (or better, glass-ceramic, and cost
like, 700 euros, while a cheap iron one, like 400-500 euros.
| |
| Tzortzakakis Dimitrios 2007-02-13, 1:25 pm |
|
? "Peter A" <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:MPG.203aa515533aa6c6989a2a@news-server.nc.rr.com...
> In article <1z9WbWGzLL1a@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
> frey@encompasserve.org says...
<paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> writes:[color=darkred]
bill190nospam@yahoo.com[color=darkred]
you[color=darkred]
out.[color=darkred]
off[color=darkred]
have a[color=darkred]
might[color=darkred]
unless[color=darkred]
cooked[color=darkred]
cycled[color=darkred]
>
> Sounds awful, but it has nothing to do with it being electric. A decent
> electric stove will boil water faster than a gas stove and is usually
> superior at low-heat cooking. Time for a replacement maybe?
The problem lies elsewhere.While on a gas range all (or almost all)of the
fuel's energy is directly converted to heat, with electricity it has to pass
through a number of stages, so the fuel's initial energy is converted to
electricity (with an efficiency at best of 33%),<in a fossil fired power
station>transformed up, transmitted, transformed down,distributed,reaching
your residence, and transformed finally to heat again)
--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr.
| |
| Dave Martindale 2007-02-13, 5:25 pm |
| Mark Lloyd <mlloyd@xmail.com10.invalid> writes:
>The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
>thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
>rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
>"med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off").
My mother used to have a stove like that, but with knobs instead of
buttons. The elements in that stove were solid metal discs, not coils,
and they had multiple resistances built into them. The multi-position
switch achieved its different heat outputs by connecting various
combinations of terminals on the element to the 240 V line (it might
have used 120 V in some of the lower positions too; I no longer
remember).
So this stove did have several different continuous heat outputs,
without switching the element on and off. But modern stoves with
"infinite heat" controls are better. The coil element has low mass and
heats up (or cools down) faster, and you can have almost infinite
control over the amount of heat via the modulating control.
Most other writers in this thread are talking about infinite-heat
controls on a modern burner (or about the oven, which is
thermostatically controlled).
Dave
| |
| Lou Decruss 2007-02-13, 5:25 pm |
| On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:58:55 -0600, Chris Friesen
<cbf123@mail.usask.ca> wrote:
>Lou Decruss wrote:
>
>
>
>There's an element of truth to it.
Nice pun.
>Unless you use an induction element,
>you cannot turn an electric element *down* quickly...it takes some time
>for the heat in the element to dissipate.
I did mention smoothtop. The disk on a good quality pan will hold
heat longer than the glass. The element is on or off.
>Also, commercial-grade gas ranges have heat outputs that far exceed
>electric ranges (and indeed most residential gas ranges). This can be
>useful for some types of cooking.
This is very true. But I don't think the OP was referring to a
commercial setting.
Lou
| |
| wff_ng_7 2007-02-13, 8:25 pm |
| "Mark Lloyd" <mlloyd@xmail.com10.invalid> wrote:
> The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
> thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
> rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
> "med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off"). BTW, it also had a 120V
> outlet on it. I guess people usually didn't have enough countertop
> outlets then.
I know I've lived on one or more houses as a kid that had the push button
controls for the surface elements. The last one I remember my parents
replaced in 1965, so the stove must have been from the 1950s or even late
1940s. I think push button controls were gone by the mid 1960s.
I do have a 120V outlet on my gas stove, circa 1973. It comes in handy since
the nearest outlet on that side of the kitchen is six feet away. The house
was built in 1963.
| |
| wff_ng_7 2007-02-13, 8:25 pm |
| "Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" <nowhere@noone.com> wrote:
> Well, traditionally stoves (or ranges) here in EU (certainly in Greece)
> have
> 3 elements for each hob, and a dial for each hob, that is numbered from 0
> to
> 3 with 1/2 subdivisions(thus 0-1/2-1-11/2...)and the three elements are
> turned on and off, respectively.So, for full heat, all 3.For 1/2 set.the
> smallest one etc.
They used to have burners with multiple elements here in the USA, but I
think they disappeared by the mid 1970s. I have a catalog of home and
apartment repair parts that lists a few replacement burners that have two
elements in the burner. The listings for these say for GE through 1975.
| |
| Mark Lloyd 2007-02-13, 9:25 pm |
| On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:22:40 GMT, "wff_ng_7" <nosuchuser@invalid.gov>
wrote:
>"Mark Lloyd" <mlloyd@xmail.com10.invalid> wrote:
>
>I know I've lived on one or more houses as a kid that had the push button
>controls for the surface elements. The last one I remember my parents
>replaced in 1965, so the stove must have been from the 1950s or even late
>1940s. I think push button controls were gone by the mid 1960s.
>
>I do have a 120V outlet on my gas stove, circa 1973. It comes in handy since
>the nearest outlet on that side of the kitchen is six feet away. The house
>was built in 1963.
My grandmother got this stove in 1967, but it was used at the time.
I'm not sure exactly when it was made, but I'd guess around 1960.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy
| |
| Joe Doe 2007-02-14, 3:25 am |
| In article <12t232uklagu07d@corp.supernews.com>,
"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote:
> ranck@vt.edu wrote:
>
>
> The very few experiences I have had with induction cook tops showed me
> that they have an on/off duty cycle that controls the heat production.
>
> Matthew
The Luxine units claim to cycle at variable power so even though they
pulse off and on have greater range of control.
This is illustrated by them in their "chocolate test" where they melt a
bar of chocolate on the lowest setting of their burner vs that of a
competitor. The competitors seized the chocolate because it was pulsing
at 3500 Watts while the Luxine did not because it was pulsing at 700 W.
I think Viking markets Luxine induction units so that might be a place
to research this.
The above is found buried in the text of this article:
http://www.appliancedesign.com/CDA/...10VgnVCM100000f
932a8c0____
I do not know it this applies to all units or the specific model in the
article. The OP might want to call Viking.
Roland
| |
|
| Mark Lloyd wrote:
> The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
> thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
> rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
> "med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off").
GE and Hotpoint ranges of the 50s and 60s typically had dual coil
surface units with five switched heat levels:
High -- 240V across both coils in parallel
Second -- 240V across one coil
Third -- 240V across both coils in series
Low -- 120V across one coil
Warm -- 120V across both coils in series
The "infinite level" time regulated controls in modern ranges require
much less wiring than the old style (less cost) and provide more user
control.
| |
| Some Dude at a Keyboard 2007-02-14, 8:25 pm |
| I grew up in a house built in the early 1970s that had a four burner
General Electric cooktop with a push button control mounted on the wall
behind it. Each burner had eight or so buttons to regulate its heat
output. When I visited last Thanksgiving, it was still in service.
"wff_ng_7" <nosuchuser@invalid.gov> wrote in
news:kDsAh.3688$Aa5.1057@trnddc01:
> I know I've lived on one or more houses as a kid that had the push
> button controls for the surface elements. The last one I remember my
> parents replaced in 1965, so the stove must have been from the 1950s
> or even late 1940s. I think push button controls were gone by the mid
> 1960s.
| |
| Tzortzakakis Dimitrios 2007-02-16, 5:25 pm |
|
Ο "wff_ng_7" <nosuchuser@invalid.gov> έγραψε στο μήνυμα
news:_IsAh.3689$Aa5.3536@trnddc01...
> "Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" <nowhere@noone.com> wrote:
0[color=darkred]
>
> They used to have burners with multiple elements here in the USA, but I
> think they disappeared by the mid 1970s. I have a catalog of home and
> apartment repair parts that lists a few replacement burners that have two
> elements in the burner. The listings for these say for GE through 1975.
>
Do you know why they disappeared?It might be just a different implement of
the same technology, I think(I mean-the general idea is the same, but
appliances differ across the pond).In USA you use 220 volts for the range,
don't you?Do you know that european washing machines are front loaded, with
a perpendicular drum, and heat the water for cotton white almost up to boil,
aka 95 deg.celsius?They used to have some special motor,induction and now
have (the better ones-)shunt DC motor.
| |
| Matthew Beasley 2007-02-21, 5:25 pm |
|
"Peter A" <paitken@CRAPnc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.203a5813a8cc8a57989a22@news-server.nc.rr.com...
-snip-
> Microwave ovens work the same way, although I have some vague
> recollection that some fancy models have variable power.
I recently purchased a new microwave that has variable output power (labeled
as "inverter technology"). It was sub $100 US so I wouldn't call it
"fancy". It has 4 power ranges and uses duty cycle control between the
power ranges to regulate the 10 available power settings. It is FAR
superior at the lower power settings. When defrosting or cooking on low, my
old microwave would singe and pause repeatedly. Cycling 1/4 power more
often yields MUCH better results.
The new microwave also behaves much better on my small backup generator -
conventional microwaves have really poor power factor AND significant even
order harmonics, both not appreciated by generator voltage regulators. The
even order harmonics are from the voltage doubler magnetron circuit. On one
half of the line waveform, the diode charges the cap up. On the other half
cycle, it fires the magnetron with the cap in series with the line voltage.
Since the back EMF when charging the cap is not equal to the fire voltage of
the magnetron minus the cap charge, the waveform is highly asymmetrical.
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