Electrical Engineering - Odd 7-segment display

Author

Odd 7-segment display

John E.

2007-02-14, 9:25 am

Came across a 90's vintage IR controller for printing industry (drives Q-H
lamps for drying ink in the paper path) that uses a single-digit 7-segment
display that looks like a nixie tube (more like a white-hot wire segment)
display. The 16-pin DIP socket is marked IEE-Atlas, and the single-digit
display is marked "IEEFFD21 5DX C". Each digit display is 15 pin on a 16 DIP
pattern.

I've done the requisite Google, but come up with nothing. The drivers on the
PCB are MC14511BPC which is a standard CC LED 7-segment driver.

What are these? They don't look anything like LED segments (I can see each
wire-like segment behind the glass front of each digit's display). Can I just
replace these with a common LED display? Or are replacements available?

Thanks,
--
John English

Michael A. Terrell

2007-02-14, 9:25 am

rebel

2007-02-14, 9:25 am

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:22:46 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Came across a 90's vintage IR controller for printing industry (drives Q-H
>lamps for drying ink in the paper path) that uses a single-digit 7-segment
>display that looks like a nixie tube (more like a white-hot wire segment)
>display. The 16-pin DIP socket is marked IEE-Atlas, and the single-digit
>display is marked "IEEFFD21 5DX C". Each digit display is 15 pin on a 16 DIP
>pattern.
>
>I've done the requisite Google, but come up with nothing. The drivers on the
>PCB are MC14511BPC which is a standard CC LED 7-segment driver.
>
>What are these? They don't look anything like LED segments (I can see each
>wire-like segment behind the glass front of each digit's display). Can I just
>replace these with a common LED display? Or are replacements available?

Once upon a time there were incandescent 7-seg annunciator devices, under
various names. Minitron and RCA's Numitron are two names, but do a google
search on "incandescent" and "7-segment" for heaps of background.

Michael A. Terrell

2007-02-14, 9:25 am

John E.

2007-02-14, 1:25 pm

> Search for: IEE FFD21

Thanks.

No replacements available.

So, since this uses the MC14511 driver, which was designed for LED 7-segment
displays, all I have to do is provide resistors to each element and rewire
for a common-cathode LED display, right?

Thanks,
--
John English

John Fields

2007-02-14, 5:25 pm

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:25:34 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>Thanks.
>
>No replacements available.
>
>So, since this uses the MC14511 driver, which was designed for LED 7-segment
>displays, all I have to do is provide resistors to each element and rewire
>for a common-cathode LED display, right?

---
Right.

--
JF

Homer J Simpson

2007-02-14, 5:25 pm

"John E." <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C1F822F600B5EA81F01826C8@news.readfreenews.net...

> What are these? They don't look anything like LED segments (I can see each
> wire-like segment behind the glass front of each digit's display). Can I
> just
> replace these with a common LED display? Or are replacements available?

Does it heat up? Voltages?

--
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

Arfa Daily

2007-02-14, 5:25 pm

"rebel" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:00v5t250rnu82m7fcb7vh8q4m6mva6ueg1@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:22:46 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Once upon a time there were incandescent 7-seg annunciator devices, under
> various names. Minitron and RCA's Numitron are two names, but do a google
> search on "incandescent" and "7-segment" for heaps of background.

When I was young and enthusiastic, I built a frequency counter that used
these. I think it was a Practical Wireless design. It's still around
somewhere ...

Arfa

James Sweet

2007-02-15, 3:25 am

John E. wrote:
> Came across a 90's vintage IR controller for printing industry (drives Q-H
> lamps for drying ink in the paper path) that uses a single-digit 7-segment
> display that looks like a nixie tube (more like a white-hot wire segment)
> display. The 16-pin DIP socket is marked IEE-Atlas, and the single-digit
> display is marked "IEEFFD21 5DX C". Each digit display is 15 pin on a 16 DIP
> pattern.
>
> I've done the requisite Google, but come up with nothing. The drivers on the
> PCB are MC14511BPC which is a standard CC LED 7-segment driver.
>
> What are these? They don't look anything like LED segments (I can see each
> wire-like segment behind the glass front of each digit's display). Can I just
> replace these with a common LED display? Or are replacements available?
>
> Thanks,

Sounds like a Numitron incandescent filament display. These are getting
very hard to come by.

John E.

2007-02-16, 3:25 am

James Sweet sez:

> Sounds like a Numitron incandescent filament display. These are getting very
> hard to come by.

Purchasing LED 7-segment replacements and associated kit (resistors, etc.)
tomorrow to convert to a 21st century technology.
--
John English

John E.

2007-02-16, 3:25 am

>> So, since this uses the MC14511 driver, which was designed for LED
[color=darkred]
> Right.
> -- John Fields

A little clarification, please...

I'm all ready to start looking for a CC display, when I look at the data
sheet for MC14511BCP and it has example circuit hookups for both CC and CA.

I thought a driver output was for one or the other "gender", either CC or CA.

Am I reading this right? Can I use either without further need of other
configuration or circuitry? Seems too good to be true...

Thanks,
Dave
--
John English

Andrew Gabriel

2007-02-16, 5:25 pm

In article <B2RAh.12551$Yn4.2012@trnddc03>,
James Sweet <jamessweet@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> Sounds like a Numitron incandescent filament display. These are getting
> very hard to come by.

They used to be popular in petrol pumps in the UK (they are
readable in quite bright sunlight).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

John Fields

2007-02-16, 5:25 pm

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 01:21:33 -0800, John E. <incognito@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>
>A little clarification, please...
>
>I'm all ready to start looking for a CC display, when I look at the data
>sheet for MC14511BCP and it has example circuit hookups for both CC and CA.
>
>I thought a driver output was for one or the other "gender", either CC or CA.
>
>
>Am I reading this right? Can I use either without further need of other
>configuration or circuitry? Seems too good to be true...

---
It is. [too good to be true]

The device, by itself, is designed to drive a common cathode display
as shown in the upper left hand corner on page 6 of this data sheet:

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC14511B-D.PDF

Immediately across the page from it is the common anode
configuration, which requires an additional transistor and resistor
_per segment_ .

--
JF

Bill Shymanski

2007-02-16, 8:25 pm

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:kGMAh.19754$Fm2.2216@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "rebel" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:00v5t250rnu82m7fcb7vh8q4m6mva6ueg1@4ax.com...
wrote:[color=darkred]
(drives Q-H[color=darkred]
7-segment[color=darkred]
segment)[color=darkred]
single-digit[color=darkred]
a 16[color=darkred]
drivers on[color=darkred]
see each[color=darkred]
Can I[color=darkred]
available?[color=darkred]
under[color=darkred]
google[color=darkred]
>
> When I was young and enthusiastic, I built a frequency counter that
used
> these. I think it was a Practical Wireless design. It's still around
> somewhere ...
>
> Arfa
>
Ahh, yes, -when I was about 14 years old I built a digital clock out of
TTL devices from a Popular Electronics plan, which would have featured
Numitrons as the display elements. I made what must have been the
ugliest printed circuit board ever - my school class used the Mactac and
hobby knife approach for making PCBs, which gave incredibly crude
results. Sadly, my troubleshooting skills were not up to overcoming my
crude construction technique and I never got the darn thing to work - it
wasn't until years later I found out the key difference between the 7447
display driver and the 7448 that the fellow at the electronics
wholesaler sold me.

I may still have the Numitrons sitting in the basement somewhere..

Bill

James Sweet

2007-02-17, 3:25 am

Bill Shymanski wrote:
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:kGMAh.19754$Fm2.2216@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> (drives Q-H
>
>
> 7-segment
>
>
> segment)
>
>
> single-digit
>
>
> a 16
>
>
> drivers on
>
>
> see each
>
>
> Can I
>
>
> available?
>
>
> under
>
>
> google
>
>
> used
>
>
> Ahh, yes, -when I was about 14 years old I built a digital clock out of
> TTL devices from a Popular Electronics plan, which would have featured
> Numitrons as the display elements. I made what must have been the
> ugliest printed circuit board ever - my school class used the Mactac and
> hobby knife approach for making PCBs, which gave incredibly crude
> results. Sadly, my troubleshooting skills were not up to overcoming my
> crude construction technique and I never got the darn thing to work - it
> wasn't until years later I found out the key difference between the 7447
> display driver and the 7448 that the fellow at the electronics
> wholesaler sold me.
>
> I may still have the Numitrons sitting in the basement somewhere..
>
> Bill
>
>
>

Perhaps you should try to get the thing working now that you're armed
with more knowledge? If you find the Numitrons and would like to get rid
of them I'd happily give you something for a set. I build clocks using
odd old display devices.

Anthony Fremont

2007-02-22, 3:25 am

James Sweet wrote:

> Perhaps you should try to get the thing working now that you're armed
> with more knowledge? If you find the Numitrons and would like to get
> rid of them I'd happily give you something for a set. I build clocks
> using odd old display devices.

Do you have a web site or a link to some pictures? I collect clocks,
watches and all things horological and am also interested in constructing
unusual time pieces.

Dave Plowman (News)

2007-02-22, 9:25 am

In article <0001HW.C1F8A22E00D3BB83F01826C8@news.readfreenews.net>,
John E. <incognito@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So, since this uses the MC14511 driver, which was designed for LED
> 7-segment displays, all I have to do is provide resistors to each
> element and rewire for a common-cathode LED display, right?

Most drivers for LED displays (CA3161 etc) have the resistors built in for
direct connection. But you should check the data sheet for your particular
one.

--
*Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

James Sweet

2007-02-24, 3:25 am

Anthony Fremont wrote:
> James Sweet wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Do you have a web site or a link to some pictures? I collect clocks,
> watches and all things horological and am also interested in constructing
> unusual time pieces.
>
>

I don't, but if you do a search for nixie clock gallery you can find
pictures of all sorts built by other people.

Anthony Fremont

2007-02-24, 9:25 am

James Sweet wrote:
> Anthony Fremont wrote:

[color=darkred]
> I don't, but if you do a search for nixie clock gallery you can find
> pictures of all sorts built by other people.

Since I dug my PIC stuff back out the other day, I've been tinkering around
with something I've wanted to do for a while. It's sort of a variation on
the propellor clock but with a pendulum, so back and forth not around. I'm
able to strobe out messages on a column of LEDs, but I'm not sure a pendulum
(even a short one) is going to swing fast enough to give a very readable
display. I may have to switch to a ceiling fan version. ;-)

James Sweet

2007-02-24, 5:25 pm

..
>
>
> Since I dug my PIC stuff back out the other day, I've been tinkering around
> with something I've wanted to do for a while. It's sort of a variation on
> the propellor clock but with a pendulum, so back and forth not around. I'm
> able to strobe out messages on a column of LEDs, but I'm not sure a pendulum
> (even a short one) is going to swing fast enough to give a very readable
> display. I may have to switch to a ceiling fan version. ;-)
>
>

It works if the size is small, you can buy these ready made at Target
and similar stores. They use an electromagnet to oscillate the pendulum
which is about 6" long and very light weight.

jasen

2007-02-25, 3:25 am

On 2007-02-24, Anthony Fremont <spam-not@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Since I dug my PIC stuff back out the other day, I've been tinkering around
> with something I've wanted to do for a while. It's sort of a variation on
> the propellor clock but with a pendulum, so back and forth not around. I'm
> able to strobe out messages on a column of LEDs, but I'm not sure a pendulum
> (even a short one) is going to swing fast enough to give a very readable
> display. I may have to switch to a ceiling fan version. ;-)

if the pendulum is short enough (about 1" to centre of mass) it should
swing fast enough with gravity alone

Bye.
Jasen

Michael

2007-02-25, 1:25 pm

"John E." wrote:
>
> Came across a 90's vintage IR controller for printing industry (drives Q-H
> lamps for drying ink in the paper path) that uses a single-digit 7-segment
> display that looks like a nixie tube (more like a white-hot wire segment)
> display. The 16-pin DIP socket is marked IEE-Atlas, and the single-digit
> display is marked "IEEFFD21 5DX C". Each digit display is 15 pin on a 16 DIP
> pattern.
>
> I've done the requisite Google, but come up with nothing. The drivers on the
> PCB are MC14511BPC which is a standard CC LED 7-segment driver.
>
> What are these? They don't look anything like LED segments (I can see each
> wire-like segment behind the glass front of each digit's display). Can I just
> replace these with a common LED display? Or are replacements available?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> John English

Incandescent, but not Numitron ... I think. ISTR that Numitron displays were
packaged in glass envelopes, like the Nixie or your garden variety "valve"
(tipping my hat to Brits), and were designed to stand upright. Your device, on
the other hand, is 16-pin DIP.

I have a handfull of these things, purchased new circa 1972 from a small "TTL
chips and stuff" mail order company in Missouri (if memory serves) for use in
the second digital clock I had designed. (First clock used Nixies) Nixies
turned out to be way too bright though, and there were no inexpensive 7-segment
LEDs back then. The incandescent wires drew a low of current, and 6 displays
required a robust p.s., so I replaced these displays with LEDs as soon as the
latter became available.

The incandescent displays I have are not marked with a manufacturer's name, just
"8-43-19" silk-screened in white paint on one side of the black case.

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