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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > March 2007 > 40-pin controller IC identity?
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40-pin controller IC identity?
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| SparkyGuy 2007-03-17, 3:25 am |
| Haven't been able to identify this controller. Don't need replacement; it's
got custom code, I'm sure. Would be nice to have pin IDs.
<http://img6.picsplace.to/img.php?fi...CliffordPCB.jpg>
It's from an old Clifford Intelliguard 200 car security system, vintage early
90's.
Anybody happen to have external wiring diagram or schematic for the PCB?
Thanks.
| |
| Frank Raffaeli 2007-03-17, 3:25 am |
| On Mar 17, 2:15 am, SparkyGuy <Sparky...@mumcrank.ck> wrote:
> Haven't been able to identify this controller. Don't need replacement; it's
> got custom code, I'm sure. Would be nice to have pin IDs.
>
> <http://img6.picsplace.to/img.php?fi...CliffordPCB.jpg>
>
> It's from an old Clifford Intelliguard 200 car security system, vintage early
> 90's.
>
> Anybody happen to have external wiring diagram or schematic for the PCB?
>
> Thanks.
It's a wild guess, but that's an old National Semi logo. I'd check the
COP8 family, because it's low cost, e.g. COP888CG (comes in a 40 DIP).
Frank
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| Meat Plow 2007-03-17, 1:25 pm |
| On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:41:06 -0700, Frank Raffaeli wrote:
> On Mar 17, 2:15 am, SparkyGuy <Sparky...@mumcrank.ck> wrote:
>
> It's a wild guess, but that's an old National Semi logo. I'd check the
> COP8 family, because it's low cost, e.g. COP888CG (comes in a 40 DIP).
>
> Frank
National MM9224.
--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
COOSN-266-06-25794
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| Lionel 2007-03-17, 1:25 pm |
| On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:15:35 -0700, SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck>
wrote:
>Haven't been able to identify this controller. Don't need replacement; it's
>got custom code, I'm sure. Would be nice to have pin IDs.
>
><http://img6.picsplace.to/img.php?fi...CliffordPCB.jpg>
Looks like a custom mask-programmed micro. It's a Nat-Semi of some
variety, but I'm not familiar enough with their range of
microcontrollers to make an intelligent suggestion as to which one. If
you can find the right 'family' on their website, you should at least
then be able to identify clocks, power & I/O pins, if that's any help
to you. You might also try contacting a support person there & see if
they have any ideas:
<http://www.national.com/>
--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
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| Lionel 2007-03-17, 1:25 pm |
| On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:53:22 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:41:06 -0700, Frank Raffaeli wrote:
>
>
>National MM9224.
Nice work, Meat. Made obsolete in '97, apparently:
<http://www.national.com/obs/>
Obsolete Part Alternate Part or Supplier Source Last Time Buy
Date Distributor
1. MM9224-VUL
NONE
NONE
12/31/97
N/A
--
W "Some people are alive only because it is illegal to kill them."
. | ,. w ,
\|/ \|/ Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
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| zwsdotcom@gmail.com 2007-03-17, 1:25 pm |
| On Mar 17, 11:17 am, Lionel <use...@imagenoir.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
Almost certainly not. 9224 is the date code.
| |
| Spehro Pefhany 2007-03-17, 1:25 pm |
| On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 02:14:07 +1100, the renowned Lionel
<usenet@imagenoir.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:15:35 -0700, SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck>
>wrote:
>
>
>Looks like a custom mask-programmed micro. It's a Nat-Semi of some
>variety, but I'm not familiar enough with their range of
>microcontrollers to make an intelligent suggestion as to which one. If
>you can find the right 'family' on their website, you should at least
>then be able to identify clocks, power & I/O pins, if that's any help
>to you. You might also try contacting a support person there & see if
>they have any ideas:
><http://www.national.com/>
I'd guess it to be a COP8 8-bit CMOS microcontroller (mask
programmed). Clock should be on pins 6 and 7, which it looks to be
(axial-lead ceramic caps, 1/8W bias resistor and 2-pin resonator in
the photo). You should see a clock on pin 6.
/Reset should be on pin 34 (but it looks to be tied to another pin).
Vcc should be on 8 and GND should be on 33.
Eg. COP688CL/COP988CL
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
| |
| Ryan Weihl 2007-03-17, 5:25 pm |
| Lionel wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:15:35 -0700, SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck>
> wrote:
>
>
> Looks like a custom mask-programmed micro. It's a Nat-Semi of some
> variety, but I'm not familiar enough with their range of
> microcontrollers to make an intelligent suggestion as to which one. If
> you can find the right 'family' on their website, you should at least
> then be able to identify clocks, power & I/O pins, if that's any help
> to you. You might also try contacting a support person there & see if
> they have any ideas:
> <http://www.national.com/>
or could this be a SC\MP version of NatSemi. discontinued
see heavier traces on 20 and 40
rw
--
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| Franc Zabkar 2007-03-17, 5:25 pm |
| On 17 Mar 2007 08:56:38 -0700, zwsdotcom@gmail.com put finger to
keyboard and composed:
>On Mar 17, 11:17 am, Lionel <use...@imagenoir.com> wrote:
>
>
>Almost certainly not. 9224 is the date code.
AFAICT, the date code of Q15 is 9920 and for the relays it is 9807.
Would it make sense for a manufacturer to use old mask ROMmed stock in
a new design?
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
| |
| Franc Zabkar 2007-03-17, 5:25 pm |
| On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:15:35 -0700, SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck>
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Haven't been able to identify this controller. Don't need replacement; it's
>got custom code, I'm sure. Would be nice to have pin IDs.
Identify the other ICs and work backwards.
><http://img6.picsplace.to/img.php?fi...CliffordPCB.jpg>
>
>It's from an old Clifford Intelliguard 200 car security system, vintage early
>90's.
AFAICT, the date codes for Q15 and for the relays suggest that it was
built as late as 9920. Is this confirmed by the date codes on the
other chips?
>Anybody happen to have external wiring diagram or schematic for the PCB?
>
>Thanks.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
| |
| Franc Zabkar 2007-03-17, 5:25 pm |
| On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:40:13 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> put finger to keyboard and
composed:
>I'd guess it to be a COP8 8-bit CMOS microcontroller (mask
>programmed). Clock should be on pins 6 and 7, which it looks to be
>(axial-lead ceramic caps, 1/8W bias resistor and 2-pin resonator in
>the photo). You should see a clock on pin 6.
>
>/Reset should be on pin 34 (but it looks to be tied to another pin).
>
>Vcc should be on 8 and GND should be on 33.
>
>Eg. COP688CL/COP988CL
>
>Best regards,
>Spehro Pefhany
A search of Google Groups suggests that the 16-pin chip may be a
ULN2003 which would confirm that the uP has 8-bit IO ports. Tracing
the ULN2003's inputs back to the uP would identify the uP's IO pins.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
| |
| Meat Plow 2007-03-17, 8:25 pm |
| On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 02:17:25 +1100, Lionel wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:53:22 -0400, Meat Plow <meat@meatplow.local>
> wrote:
>
>
> Nice work, Meat. Made obsolete in '97, apparently:
> <http://www.national.com/obs/>
My Google skillz Rock!
> Obsolete Part Alternate Part or Supplier Source Last Time Buy
> Date Distributor
> 1. MM9224-VUL
> NONE
> NONE
> 12/31/97
> N/A
--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
COOSN-266-06-25794
| |
| Meat Plow 2007-03-17, 8:25 pm |
| On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 08:56:38 -0700, zwsdotcom wrote:
> On Mar 17, 11:17 am, Lionel <use...@imagenoir.com> wrote:
>
>
> Almost certainly not. 9224 is the date code.
Be quiet, you've ruined my moment of stardom!.
--
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004
COOSN-266-06-25794
| |
| Michael Black 2007-03-17, 8:25 pm |
| Franc Zabkar (fzabkar@iinternode.on.net) writes:
> On 17 Mar 2007 08:56:38 -0700, zwsdotcom@gmail.com put finger to
> keyboard and composed:
>
>
> AFAICT, the date code of Q15 is 9920 and for the relays it is 9807.
> Would it make sense for a manufacturer to use old mask ROMmed stock in
> a new design?
>
Something that's mask programmed, you don't want to buy in small quantities.
Hence so long as the design is still viable, you don't want to change
things until you absolutely have to (such as running out of that mask
programmed device, or something else is just no longer available).
Michael
| |
| zwsdotcom@gmail.com 2007-03-17, 9:25 pm |
|
>
>
> AFAICT, the date code of Q15 is 9920 and for the relays it is 9807.
> Would it make sense for a manufacturer to use old mask ROMmed stock in
> a new design?
Yes. Where I work, we have "masked" [actually they are OTP, but they
are factory-programmed and sold as "masked"] COP micros dating back at
least five years. We'll still be making those products five or six
years from now, and those chips were last time buy two years ago. Less
expense and trouble to do a last time buy for the product's expected
lifespan than to port everything to a new micro.
| |
|
| SparkyGuy wrote:
> Haven't been able to identify this controller. Don't need replacement; it's
> got custom code, I'm sure. Would be nice to have pin IDs.
>
> <http://img6.picsplace.to/img.php?fi...CliffordPCB.jpg>
>
> It's from an old Clifford Intelliguard 200 car security system, vintage early
> 90's.
>
> Anybody happen to have external wiring diagram or schematic for the PCB?
>
> Thanks.
>
You'll have to wait until 2008 when the picture becomes available.
--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
| |
| SparkyGuy 2007-03-18, 3:25 am |
| > Identify the other ICs and work backwards.
The 8-pin says "3-544" and is probably a 73-544 clock gen. The resonator is
right there between it and the 40 pin'r.
> AFAICT, the date codes for Q15 and for the relays suggest that it was
> built as late as 9920. Is this confirmed by the date codes on the
> other chips?
I've owned since about mid '98. The relays were replaced maybe ~'99. Don't
think the transistor was replaced, but might be.
| |
| Franc Zabkar 2007-03-19, 5:25 pm |
| On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:41:04 -0700, SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck>
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>The 8-pin says "3-544" and is probably a 73-544 clock gen. The resonator is
>right there between it and the 40 pin'r.
Could it be a house-numbered serial EEPROM, eg 93Cxx ???
According to the datasheet for the COP8 ...
port pin# function
----------------------------------------------
G4 3 SO (MICROWIRE Serial Data Output)
G5 4 SK (MICROWIRE Serial Clock)
G6 5 SI (MICROWIRE Serial Data Input)
I think the DIP-14 and DIP-16 IO chips should give you a clue as to
the uC's port layout. I'm betting that one chip drives various
external relays while the other accepts inputs from sensors.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
| |
| Franc Zabkar 2007-03-19, 5:25 pm |
| On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 12:40:13 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> put finger to keyboard and
composed:
>On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 02:14:07 +1100, the renowned Lionel
><usenet@imagenoir.com> wrote:
>
>
>I'd guess it to be a COP8 8-bit CMOS microcontroller (mask
>programmed). Clock should be on pins 6 and 7, which it looks to be
>(axial-lead ceramic caps, 1/8W bias resistor and 2-pin resonator in
>the photo). You should see a clock on pin 6.
>/Reset should be on pin 34 (but it looks to be tied to another pin).
The COP688 datasheet identifies pin 36 as a WDOUT (watchdog output)
pin, so your observation would make sense.
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dat...article=1178138
>Vcc should be on 8 and GND should be on 33.
>
>Eg. COP688CL/COP988CL
>
>Best regards,
>Spehro Pefhany
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
| |
| SparkyGuy 2007-03-20, 9:25 am |
| Brief trace tracing:
DIP 40 DIP 8
-------------
pin 3 pin 3
pin 4 pin 2
pin 5 Pin 4
> I think the DIP-14 and DIP-16 IO chips should give you a clue as to
> the uC's port layout. I'm betting that one chip drives various
> external relays while the other accepts inputs from sensors.
The DIP-16 does drive the relay coils.
One of them has Motorola logo, one National Semi. Other than that, the part
#s have been successfully rubbed off. A ghost of them remains, but an
electron-scanning microscope might be needed... (c;
Thanks.
| |
| Rich Grise 2007-03-20, 1:25 pm |
| On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:42:14 -0700, SparkyGuy wrote:
> Brief trace tracing:
>
> DIP 40 DIP 8
> -------------
> pin 3 pin 3
> pin 4 pin 2
> pin 5 Pin 4
>
>
> The DIP-16 does drive the relay coils.
>
> One of them has Motorola logo, one National Semi. Other than that, the part
> #s have been successfully rubbed off. A ghost of them remains, but an
> electron-scanning microscope might be needed... (c;
>
How about some of that magickal fluorescent spray stuff from CSI? :-)
Cheers!
Rich
| |
| Lostgallifreyan 2007-03-20, 1:25 pm |
| Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote in
news:pan.2007.03.20.17.14.01.910570@example.net:
>
> How about some of that magickal fluorescent spray stuff from CSI? :-)
>
I've used white spirit, a metal halide lamp, and the lens from an old Zent
35mm camera as a high powered magnifier. I got most of the IC numbers from
a LambdaPro laser PSU, and LambdaPro grind them off to hide them. If
they've only been rubbed enough to obscure them a bit, this should work on
them. Try with different light and viewing angles.
| |
| SparkyGuy 2007-03-20, 1:25 pm |
| > I've used white spirit, a metal halide lamp, and the lens from an old Zent
> 35mm camera as a high powered magnifier. I got most of the IC numbers from
> a LambdaPro laser PSU, and LambdaPro grind them off to hide them. If
> they've only been rubbed enough to obscure them a bit, this should work on
> them. Try with different light and viewing angles.
What's "American" for white spirit?
I'm willing to try...
| |
| Lostgallifreyan 2007-03-20, 1:25 pm |
| SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck> wrote in
news:0001HW.C2256C3301173DB5F01826C8@news.sf.sbcglobal.net:
>
> What's "American" for white spirit?
>
> I'm willing to try...
>
>
Paint thinner, as used for domestic gloss paint. Use the good stuff rather
than turpentine which has greasy impurities in. It's useful because it
evaporates fast but not too fast, and it won't attack anything on most
circuit boards, or the IC markings.
| |
| Franc Zabkar 2007-03-20, 5:25 pm |
| On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:42:14 -0700, SparkyGuy <SparkyGuy@mumcrank.ck>
put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Brief trace tracing:
COP8 NMC9306
DIP 40 DIP 8
-------------------------
SO pin 3 pin 3 DI
SK pin 4 pin 2 SK
SI pin 5 Pin 4 DO
I'd say that the DIP-8 IC is a serial EEPROM. It probably stores the
security code.
>
>The DIP-16 does drive the relay coils.
The ULN2003 was made by several manufacturers including Motorola. If
its pins are not a match, then I'd try other ULN series devices.
>One of them has Motorola logo, one National Semi. Other than that, the part
>#s have been successfully rubbed off. A ghost of them remains, but an
>electron-scanning microscope might be needed... (c;
>
>Thanks.
Could the DIP-14 chip be a hex buffer, eg 74C90x ???
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
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