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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > May 2007 > Oxyacetylene Fires, Ionization, and EMI
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| Author |
Oxyacetylene Fires, Ionization, and EMI
|
|
| Radium 2007-05-27, 9:25 pm |
| Hi:
An oxyacetylene flame -- due to its high temperature -- can cause
nearby air molecules to ionize. Does this ionization cause electrical
disturbances that can be heard on an AM radio? If my neighbor is using
an oxyacetylene torch will I hear the electric noise on my AM radio?
Can nearby analog televisions also experience visual disturbances from
the ionization caused by the oxyacetylene flame?
Thanx,
Radium
| |
| mushnik 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
|
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180319011.336361.47610@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hi:
>
> An oxyacetylene flame -- due to its high temperature -- can cause
> nearby air molecules to ionize. Does this ionization cause electrical
> disturbances that can be heard on an AM radio? If my neighbor is using
> an oxyacetylene torch will I hear the electric noise on my AM radio?
> Can nearby analog televisions also experience visual disturbances from
> the ionization caused by the oxyacetylene flame?
>
air molecules ??
air is a mixture of gases.
| |
| N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\) 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| Dear Radium:
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180319011.336361.47610@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hi:
>
> An oxyacetylene flame -- due to its high temperature --
> can cause nearby air molecules to ionize. Does this
> ionization cause electrical disturbances that can be
> heard on an AM radio?
Is there a net electrical current? If not, then no.
> If my neighbor is using an oxyacetylene torch will I
> hear the electric noise on my AM radio?
Plasma torch, likely. Electrical welder, certainly.
Oxyacetylene torch, probably not.
> Can nearby analog televisions also experience visual
> disturbances from the ionization caused by the
> oxyacetylene flame?
Probably not.
David A. Smith
| |
| Radium 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| On May 27, 8:49 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <d...@aol.com>
wrote:
> Dear Radium:
>
> "Radium" <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1180319011.336361.47610@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> Is there a net electrical current? If not, then no.
The intense heat from the flame might cause certain compounds in the
air to dissociate into ions.
>
> Plasma torch, likely. Electrical welder, certainly.
> Oxyacetylene torch, probably not.
The heat and light of the flame is due to electric forces in the
chemicals being burned. Right?
>
> Probably not.
>
> David A. Smith
A flame is a form of plasma. In addition, electricity can pass more
easily through a flame than through room-temperature air.
| |
| jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| In sci.physics.electromag "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dlzc@aol.com> wrote:
> Dear Radium:
> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1180319011.336361.47610@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
[color=darkred]
> Is there a net electrical current? If not, then no.
[color=darkred]
> Plasma torch, likely. Electrical welder, certainly.
> Oxyacetylene torch, probably not.
[color=darkred]
> Probably not.
> David A. Smith
The neighbor's arc welder will cause a little "snow" on the lower
VHF channels and can be heard as static on AM radio; gas produces
nothing.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
| |
| N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\) 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| Dear Radium:
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180324883.197570.116250@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 27, 8:49 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)"
> <d...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> The intense heat from the flame might cause certain
> compounds in the air to dissociate into ions.
It is called a plasma, and both charges travel together. No net
electrical current.
>
> The heat and light of the flame is due to electric forces
> in the chemicals being burned. Right?
Actually, it is caused both by the momentum of the various atoms,
and the light released in the chemical reaction(s).
>
> A flame is a form of plasma. In addition, electricity can
> pass more easily through a flame than through room-
> temperature air.
But there is not a potential difference to cause unbalanced
current flow.
If you want to mess with him, though, you could cause his plasma
to talk to him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_arc_loudspeaker
.... "THIS IS THE VOICE OF GOD. STOP MESSING WITH THY NEIGHBORS
RECEPTION." ...
;> )
David A. Smith
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| In alt.engineering.electrical jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dlzc@aol.com> wrote:
|> Dear Radium:
|
|> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> news:1180319011.336361.47610@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
|> > Hi:
|> >
|> > An oxyacetylene flame -- due to its high temperature --
|> > can cause nearby air molecules to ionize. Does this
|> > ionization cause electrical disturbances that can be
|> > heard on an AM radio?
|
|> Is there a net electrical current? If not, then no.
|
|> > If my neighbor is using an oxyacetylene torch will I
|> > hear the electric noise on my AM radio?
|
|> Plasma torch, likely. Electrical welder, certainly.
|> Oxyacetylene torch, probably not.
|
|> > Can nearby analog televisions also experience visual
|> > disturbances from the ionization caused by the
|> > oxyacetylene flame?
|
|> Probably not.
|
|> David A. Smith
|
| The neighbor's arc welder will cause a little "snow" on the lower
| VHF channels and can be heard as static on AM radio; gas produces
| nothing.
Not after Feb 18, 2009.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2007-05-27-2336@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
| Dan Bloomquist 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| mushnik wrote:
> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1180319011.336361.47610@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> air molecules ??
Don't feed the fucking troll
| |
| Dan Bloomquist 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> Dear Radium:
>
> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1180319011.336361.47610@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> Is there a net electrical current?
Why ask a trolling frothing idiot?
Don't feed the troll............
| |
| Dan Bloomquist 2007-05-28, 3:25 am |
| Radium wrote:
>
> The intense heat from the flame...
\
Has burnt your brian for all that you troll care to hear.
| |
| jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com 2007-05-28, 1:25 pm |
| In sci.physics.electromag phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> In alt.engineering.electrical jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> | The neighbor's arc welder will cause a little "snow" on the lower
> | VHF channels and can be heard as static on AM radio; gas produces
> | nothing.
> Not after Feb 18, 2009.
I think it is a pretty safe bet that the date will get extended.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
| |
| Bill Penrose 2007-05-28, 1:25 pm |
| On May 27, 7:23 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> An oxyacetylene flame -- due to its high temperature -- can cause
> nearby air molecules to ionize.
Usually, a magnetic field is needed as well to create an ion current
in the hot gases. The exception is electric sparks.
Usually, you don't start thinking plasma until you're up in the many
thousands of degrees. The plasma torches used in ICP are initiated
with a spark and then inductively self-heated with an oscillating
magnetic field.
OA flames are like Antarctic ice by comparison.
On the other hand, consider this:
http://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=819
Dangerous Bill
| |
| donald haarmann 2007-05-28, 5:25 pm |
| "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com
| Hi:
|
| An oxyacetylene flame -- due to its high temperature -- can cause
| nearby air molecules to ionize. Does this ionization cause electrical
| disturbances that can be heard on an AM radio? If my neighbor is using
| an oxyacetylene torch will I hear the electric noise on my AM radio?
| Can nearby analog televisions also experience visual disturbances from
| the ionization caused by the oxyacetylene flame?
-----------
The WiZard's Welding Service
WE STAND BEHIND OUR WORK
[but never under it]
You could try your question in rec.metalworking. However, as things are a little slow over
at alt.binaries.pictures.nospam.post-yourself-nude, I took Leo D's advice (There is no
higher or lower knowledge, but one only, flowing out of experimentation. )
With my Miller 301G set at 300 Amps DC - with the coupon 4-foot from a radio set to
a strong local AM station there is no effect. There is however, the possibility that an
AC welder, would generate high frequency harmonics and cause interference, personally
I doubt it.
With my Miller Spectrum 2050 plasma cutter -- radio 45-foot away (so I can hear it
over the air flow from the torch). When la machine is turned on you hear chuff-chuff-
chuff w/ the signal. When cutting - white/pink noise completely wipes out the signal.
Now - unless the Democrats revoke the inverse-square law, I doubt this effect would
travel far. If I could find a volunteer the radio could be move away and we would know for sure.
--
donald j haarmann
---------------------------------
And the public has always
responded to a buccaneering
spirit in engineering, the idea
that enormous risks are being
taken, that enormous reward is
the prize, but that total disaster
is a looming possibility. That, in
short, is the achievement of Mr.
Marks and Ms. Barfield's
London Eye:....
Hugh Peraman
Wall Street Journal
26-27 May 2007
| |
| Dead Paul 2007-05-30, 9:25 am |
| On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:23:31 -0700, Radium wrote:
> Hi:
>
> An oxyacetylene flame -- due to its high temperature -- can cause nearby
> air molecules to ionize. Does this ionization cause electrical
> disturbances that can be heard on an AM radio? If my neighbor is using an
> oxyacetylene torch will I hear the electric noise on my AM radio? Can
> nearby analog televisions also experience visual disturbances from the
> ionization caused by the oxyacetylene flame?
No, I have never heard of such interference being a problem anywhere
before and any net flow of current will be far too small and it will be
dc. A spark would produce a transient rf pulse but you would require an
alternating current or a series of sparks to get continuous rf.
>
>
> Thanx,
>
> Radium
--
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