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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > September 2007 > Powersave Posts
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| Charles Perry 2007-09-16, 8:25 pm |
| The Powersave posts remind me of something that happened at my previous
employer about a decade ago. This guy contacted us wanting us to evaluate a
product he had invested in. He wanted some kind of letter of recommendation
from us. He brought his product over (I won't post the name - although they
are still on the market) for us to evaluate. It was a typical metal box
that saved energy and made motors run cooler. He first demonstrated it
using the "tools" he had been provided by the company. We, of course,
pulled out real test equipment. It took about 5 minutes to figure out that
what he had was a metal box full of capacitors. The real funny thing was
that when he plugged it in one outlet, the votlage distorted horribly. The
cap was acting as a third harmonic filter and was drawing huge third
harmonic currents.
In a panic he called the company to have them explain the harmonics (we knew
the problem). Once they told him there was nothing in the box but caps you
could see the guy's whole world dissolving. After the call, he nearly
cried. He had invested his entire life savings in an "exclusive residential
marketing rights" in a certain area of the US. The problem, no real market
for kvar correction on residential customers since the meter only measures
kWh plus the fact that installing a cap at the meter does little or nothing
to reduce the losses in the residence.
We felt sorry for the guy.
Charles Perry P.E.
| |
|
| "Charles Perry" <pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5l5v1aF6g5i7U1@mid.individual.net...
> The Powersave posts remind me of something that happened at my previous
> employer about a decade ago. This guy contacted us wanting us to evaluate
> a product he had invested in. He wanted some kind of letter of
> recommendation from us. He brought his product over (I won't post the
> name - although they are still on the market) for us to evaluate. It was
> a typical metal box that saved energy and made motors run cooler. He
> first demonstrated it using the "tools" he had been provided by the
> company. We, of course, pulled out real test equipment. It took about 5
> minutes to figure out that what he had was a metal box full of capacitors.
> The real funny thing was that when he plugged it in one outlet, the
> votlage distorted horribly. The cap was acting as a third harmonic filter
> and was drawing huge third harmonic currents.
>
> In a panic he called the company to have them explain the harmonics (we
> knew the problem). Once they told him there was nothing in the box but
> caps you could see the guy's whole world dissolving. After the call, he
> nearly cried. He had invested his entire life savings in an "exclusive
> residential marketing rights" in a certain area of the US. The problem,
> no real market for kvar correction on residential customers since the
> meter only measures kWh plus the fact that installing a cap at the meter
> does little or nothing to reduce the losses in the residence.
>
> We felt sorry for the guy.
That sucks. These scam artists really deserve a hot place in hell.
CS
| |
|
| From: pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com (Charles=A0Perry)
The Powersave posts remind me of something that happened at my previous
employer about a decade ago. This guy contacted us wanting us to
evaluate a product he had invested in. He wanted some kind of letter of
recommendation from us. He brought his product over (I won't post the
name - although they are still on the market) for us to evaluate. It was
a typical metal box that saved energy and made motors run cooler. He
first demonstrated it using the "tools" he had been provided by the
company. We, of course, pulled out real test equipment. It took about 5
minutes to figure out that what he had was a metal box full of
capacitors. The real funny thing was that when he plugged it in one
outlet, the voltage distorted horribly. The cap was acting as a third
harmonic filter and was drawing huge third harmonic currents.
In a panic he called the company to have them explain the harmonics (we
knew the problem). Once they told him there was nothing in the box but
caps you could see the guy's whole world dissolving. After the call, he
nearly cried. He had invested his entire life savings in an "exclusive
residential marketing rights" in a certain area of the US. The problem,
no real market for kvar correction on residential customers since the
meter only measures kWh plus the fact that installing a cap at the meter
does little or nothing to reduce the losses in the residence.
We felt sorry for the guy.
Charles Perry P.E.
That's messed up.....
I remember you too Charles, you said that I shouldn't wear black
carpenter jeans & leather if I wanted to be taken serious, I just bought
a new pair....I've out grown the vest though
This Powersaver is making me think of a
product on some dudes website - they said they were working on a product
that would take ambient energy & radio signals & turn it into enough
electricity to run a small NYC apartment..Their premise was: We can take
Radio Waves and turn it back into Audio, so, what keeps us from taking
it all the way & extracting the Electrical Quantity & Amplifying it to a
120AC signal...
They had some sort of Device loaded with Coils, Transistors,IC's & Caps,
with an antenna array that allegedly did something, but the initial
start-up energy still relied heavily on the utility signal., just like a
radio } a high energy battery pack was being sought out to wean it
from the utility .. it all sounds nice & feasible until you buy into
it..... The Flintstones Monkey in a Box probably works better I'll
keep looking into it though..
I could get away with almost Free Electricity in my Apt. if I had a
microturbine gas powered generator (I get free gas with my lease)., even
if I could afford a small model, my Landlords agents & attorney would
have a field day with the mysterious increased utility bill they'd get.
Come to think of it the monkey needs to eat & stuff., so it all $ucks
}
Roy Q.T.
Urban Technician
[I don't make em, I just fix em]
| |
| Charles Perry 2007-09-17, 9:25 am |
|
"Roy" <ROYKEY@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25161-46EE3108-541@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net...
From: pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com (Charles Perry)
<snip>
I remember you too Charles, you said that I shouldn't wear black
carpenter jeans & leather if I wanted to be taken serious, I just bought
a new pair....I've out grown the vest though
<snip>
Roy,
If you want to be taken seriously, learn something about electricity. The
life you save may be your own.
Charles Perry P.E.
| |
|
| "Roy" <ROYKEY@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25161-46EE3108-541@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net...
From: pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com (Charles Perry)
The Powersave posts remind me of something that happened at my previous
employer about a decade ago. This guy contacted us wanting us to
evaluate a product he had invested in. He wanted some kind of letter of
recommendation from us. He brought his product over (I won't post the
name - although they are still on the market) for us to evaluate. It was
a typical metal box that saved energy and made motors run cooler. He
first demonstrated it using the "tools" he had been provided by the
company. We, of course, pulled out real test equipment. It took about 5
minutes to figure out that what he had was a metal box full of
capacitors. The real funny thing was that when he plugged it in one
outlet, the voltage distorted horribly. The cap was acting as a third
harmonic filter and was drawing huge third harmonic currents.
In a panic he called the company to have them explain the harmonics (we
knew the problem). Once they told him there was nothing in the box but
caps you could see the guy's whole world dissolving. After the call, he
nearly cried. He had invested his entire life savings in an "exclusive
residential marketing rights" in a certain area of the US. The problem,
no real market for kvar correction on residential customers since the
meter only measures kWh plus the fact that installing a cap at the meter
does little or nothing to reduce the losses in the residence.
We felt sorry for the guy.
Charles Perry P.E.
That's messed up.....
I remember you too Charles, you said that I shouldn't wear black
carpenter jeans & leather if I wanted to be taken serious, I just bought
a new pair....I've out grown the vest though
This Powersaver is making me think of a
product on some dudes website - they said they were working on a product
that would take ambient energy & radio signals & turn it into enough
electricity to run a small NYC apartment..Their premise was: We can take
Radio Waves and turn it back into Audio, so, what keeps us from taking
it all the way & extracting the Electrical Quantity & Amplifying it to a
120AC signal...
They had some sort of Device loaded with Coils, Transistors,IC's & Caps,
with an antenna array that allegedly did something, but the initial
start-up energy still relied heavily on the utility signal., just like a
radio } a high energy battery pack was being sought out to wean it
from the utility .. it all sounds nice & feasible until you buy into
it..... The Flintstones Monkey in a Box probably works better I'll
keep looking into it though..
[Mythbusters tried that device. Didn't work]
CS
I could get away with almost Free Electricity in my Apt. if I had a
microturbine gas powered generator (I get free gas with my lease)., even
if I could afford a small model, my Landlords agents & attorney would
have a field day with the mysterious increased utility bill they'd get.
Come to think of it the monkey needs to eat & stuff., so it all $ucks
}
Roy Q.T.
Urban Technician
[I don't make em, I just fix em]
| |
| Salmon Egg 2007-09-17, 5:25 pm |
| On 9/16/07 5:11 PM, in article 5l5v1aF6g5i7U1@mid.individual.net, "Charles
Perry" <pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Powersave posts remind me of something that happened at my previous
> employer about a decade ago. This guy contacted us wanting us to evaluate a
> product he had invested in. He wanted some kind of letter of recommendation
> from us. He brought his product over (I won't post the name - although they
> are still on the market) for us to evaluate. It was a typical metal box
> that saved energy and made motors run cooler. He first demonstrated it
> using the "tools" he had been provided by the company. We, of course,
> pulled out real test equipment. It took about 5 minutes to figure out that
> what he had was a metal box full of capacitors. The real funny thing was
> that when he plugged it in one outlet, the votlage distorted horribly. The
> cap was acting as a third harmonic filter and was drawing huge third
> harmonic currents.
I must be missing something. How do capacitors draw high third harmonic
currents? Were they series tuned to the third harmonic? Even so, there would
be little third harmonic current if there were not something nonlinear to
produce a third harmonic voltage.
--
Iraq: About three Virginia Techs a month
| |
| Charles Perry 2007-09-17, 5:25 pm |
|
"Salmon Egg" <salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:C314241D.9D039%salmonegg@sbcglobal.net...
> On 9/16/07 5:11 PM, in article 5l5v1aF6g5i7U1@mid.individual.net, "Charles
> Perry" <pipesandtobacco@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I must be missing something. How do capacitors draw high third harmonic
> currents? Were they series tuned to the third harmonic? Even so, there
> would
> be little third harmonic current if there were not something nonlinear to
> produce a third harmonic voltage.
> --
> Iraq: About three Virginia Techs a month
>
The addition of the capacitors created the resonance. Any time you add a
capacitor to a power system, you create a resonance at some frequency. If
you are unlucky, you create one at a point where there is a source of energy
at that frequency.
As for a source of thirds, it was in a building housing a few hundred
computers.
Charles Perry P.E.
| |
| Paul Hovnanian P.E. 2007-09-18, 3:25 am |
| Charles Perry wrote:
>
> "Salmon Egg" <salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:C314241D.9D039%salmonegg@sbcglobal.net...
>
> The addition of the capacitors created the resonance. Any time you add a
> capacitor to a power system, you create a resonance at some frequency. If
> you are unlucky, you create one at a point where there is a source of energy
> at that frequency.
>
> As for a source of thirds, it was in a building housing a few hundred
> computers.
>
> Charles Perry P.E.
What was the configuration of the caps in the gizmo? Series or parallel?
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.
| |
| Charles Perry 2007-09-18, 9:25 am |
|
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in message
news:46EF4C43.6557B7B3@hovnanian.com...
> Charles Perry wrote:
>
> What was the configuration of the caps in the gizmo? Series or parallel?
>
> --
> Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.
They were shunt. Phase to neutral.
Charles Perry P.E.
| |
|
| Charles Perry wrote:
> The Powersave posts remind me of something that happened at my previous
> employer about a decade ago. This guy contacted us wanting us to evaluate a
> product he had invested in. He wanted some kind of letter of recommendation
> from us. He brought his product over (I won't post the name - although they
> are still on the market) for us to evaluate. It was a typical metal box
> that saved energy and made motors run cooler. He first demonstrated it
> using the "tools" he had been provided by the company. We, of course,
> pulled out real test equipment. It took about 5 minutes to figure out that
> what he had was a metal box full of capacitors. The real funny thing was
> that when he plugged it in one outlet, the votlage distorted horribly. The
> cap was acting as a third harmonic filter and was drawing huge third
> harmonic currents.
>
> In a panic he called the company to have them explain the harmonics (we knew
> the problem). Once they told him there was nothing in the box but caps you
> could see the guy's whole world dissolving. After the call, he nearly
> cried. He had invested his entire life savings in an "exclusive residential
> marketing rights" in a certain area of the US. The problem, no real market
> for kvar correction on residential customers since the meter only measures
> kWh plus the fact that installing a cap at the meter does little or nothing
> to reduce the losses in the residence.
>
> We felt sorry for the guy.
>
> Charles Perry P.E.
>
>
Ouch. :-(
But, think about it:
The _right_ powersave devices *must* work. How else
would those people in Nigeria have all that money they
want you to help them get out of the country?
Ed
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