Electrical Engineering - Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?

Author

Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?

Michael Balarama

2007-01-21, 5:25 pm

Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?

My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
it's a losing cause.

Maybe there is a better way?

Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive enough
to be practical?

Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the existing
light switch boxes?

Please advise.
Thanks

Old_Boat

2007-01-21, 5:25 pm

"Michael Balarama" <mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:fma0hm3qigoi$.11qqgd0svwefl.dlg@40tude.net...
> Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
> My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
> find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
> it's a losing cause.
>
> Maybe there is a better way?
>
> Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
> replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive
> enough
> to be practical?
>
> Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
> turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the
> existing
> light switch boxes?
>
> Please advise.
> Thanks

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&...%3B&sa=X&oi=spe
ll&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=motion+sensor+light+switch&spell=1

They work fine and the time left on after motion detected on most are
variable.

LJ

Tony Hwang

2007-01-21, 5:25 pm

John McGaw

2007-01-21, 8:25 pm

Michael Balarama wrote:
> Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
> My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
> find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
> it's a losing cause.
>
> Maybe there is a better way?
>
> Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
> replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive enough
> to be practical?
>
> Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
> turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the existing
> light switch boxes?
>
> Please advise.
> Thanks

They exist. And they exist in a wide price range from low-end units
available at every big-box homecenter up to sophisticated high-end
commercial units. I have a few low-end units, one in my garage, one in
the entry hall from the garage, and one in the laundry room and have and
no problem with any of them unless you include a seeming unwillingness
to work with a CF-only load. The size is the same as a typical light
dimmer and they fit fine in a standard box but be forewarned that they
seem all to be compatible with "Decora" plates like you see with GFCI
outlets, not regular toggle switch plates. Whether they are worthwhile
depends on what your electricity costs, how often you leave the lights
on in an unoccupied room, what the lighting load is, and what you have
to pay to obtain and install the switch. I can't recall what I paid for
my switches but it seems likely that it must be < $20 given how cheap I am.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

Steve Barker

2007-01-21, 8:25 pm

Heat lamp timer.

--
Steve Barker

"Michael Balarama" <mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:fma0hm3qigoi$.11qqgd0svwefl.dlg@40tude.net...
> Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
> My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
> find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
> it's a losing cause.
>
> Maybe there is a better way?
>
> Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
> replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive
> enough
> to be practical?
>
> Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
> turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the
> existing
> light switch boxes?
>
> Please advise.
> Thanks

gfretwell@aol.com

2007-01-21, 8:25 pm

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:05:48 GMT, Michael Balarama
<mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
>My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
>find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
>it's a losing cause.
>
>Maybe there is a better way?
>
>Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
>replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive enough
>to be practical?
>
>Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
>turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the existing
>light switch boxes?
>
>Please advise.
>Thanks

My foray in this started when I figured out my wife and kids were
using the refrigerator as a night light in the kitchen. I took a
garden varirety motion detector head and hooked it up to a small light
in the kitchen (now rope light in the toe kicks and over the uppers.)
As the idea caught on I added motion sensors and occupancy sensors.
Now the lights follow you around the house, inside and out and go out
shortly after you leave, Don't let those PAR38 flood lights confuse
you. These can be hooked up to any sort of light you want. For
"walking around" light a fairly small amount of indirect lighting is
plenty. Spend your "watts" on task light where you need it.
BTW the difference between a motion sensor and an occupancy sensor is
a motion sensor is a "one shot" that times out and has to be
retriggered. An occupancy sensor gets retriggered on the fly and will
not time out until there is no more motion over the given period..

They do have Decora occupancy sensors.

Greg

2007-01-22, 3:25 am

Shouldn't you be able to detect a light-on event, and stitch in an
accompanying light-off event for ten minutes later using some sort of
home automation controller?

Michael Balarama wrote:
> Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>

BruceR

2007-01-22, 3:25 am

Sure, but I'll bet you a bag of doughnuts the OP doesn't have or want an
HA controller.
For timers, nothing quite beats an in wall Intermatic twist timer as
used.

Greg wrote:[color=darkred]
> Shouldn't you be able to detect a light-on event, and stitch in an
> accompanying light-off event for ten minutes later using some sort of
> home automation controller?
>
>
> Michael Balarama wrote:

tester@testing123.com

2007-01-22, 9:25 am

Take a photocell and connect it to a timer, and connect the timer to a
very loud alarm that can be heard for miles, such as the ones that
cities use for tornados. It works like this. The photocell senses
the light which turns on the timer. If the timer runs for lets say 10
minutes, it flips on the alarm. That alarm will deafen anyone nearby,
and not only the kids know they are about to get the worst spanking in
history, but you are alerted that you need to arm the electronic,
remote controlled spanking paddle, which of course has electronic
sensors built in, so that it delivers the most painful spanking but
without leaving any permanent scars or bruises. When all is complete
and done, consider this: The electricity saved by shutting off the
lights is used to spank the hell out of the kid that left the switch
on. This is the ultimate in justice.

I must say this. Since your parents had to yell at you for not
turning off lights, and your kids are doing it now, this proves it's
hereditary. You passed this harmful and wasteful gene onto your
children. Remember this as you spank them, and be sure you place
yourself in the spanking machine after the kids are well done or
beaten raw. You too deserve a major whalloping.

Tester

--------------

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:05:48 GMT, Michael Balarama
<mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
>My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
>find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
>it's a losing cause.
>
>Maybe there is a better way?
>
>Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
>replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive enough
>to be practical?
>
>Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
>turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the existing
>light switch boxes?
>
>Please advise.
>Thanks

Mark Lloyd

2007-01-22, 1:25 pm

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:44:42 -0500, John McGaw <nobody@nowh.ere>
wrote:

>Michael Balarama wrote:
>
>They exist. And they exist in a wide price range from low-end units
>available at every big-box homecenter up to sophisticated high-end
>commercial units. I have a few low-end units, one in my garage, one in
>the entry hall from the garage, and one in the laundry room and have and
>no problem with any of them unless you include a seeming unwillingness
>to work with a CF-only load.

I have a timer switch
(www.intermatic.com/images/instructi.../158ei12087.pdf) that I
got at Lowe's that works fine with a CF-only load. It does require a
neutral connection.

I wish I could find a motion-detector switch that would work here. The
ones I have are 2-wire , and don't work with the CFs.

>The size is the same as a typical light
>dimmer and they fit fine in a standard box but be forewarned that they
>seem all to be compatible with "Decora" plates like you see with GFCI
>outlets, not regular toggle switch plates. Whether they are worthwhile
>depends on what your electricity costs, how often you leave the lights
>on in an unoccupied room, what the lighting load is, and what you have
>to pay to obtain and install the switch. I can't recall what I paid for
>my switches but it seems likely that it must be < $20 given how cheap I am.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Goedjn

2007-01-22, 1:25 pm

Tzortzakakis Dimitrios

2007-01-22, 1:25 pm

? <tester@testing123.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:lm99r2p8l9i03suds5tk0tga9cv8t7dcvn@4ax.com...
> Take a photocell and connect it to a timer, and connect the timer to a
> very loud alarm that can be heard for miles, such as the ones that
> cities use for tornados. It works like this. The photocell senses
> the light which turns on the timer. If the timer runs for lets say 10
> minutes, it flips on the alarm. That alarm will deafen anyone nearby,
> and not only the kids know they are about to get the worst spanking in
> history, but you are alerted that you need to arm the electronic,
> remote controlled spanking paddle, which of course has electronic
> sensors built in, so that it delivers the most painful spanking but
> without leaving any permanent scars or bruises. When all is complete
> and done, consider this: The electricity saved by shutting off the
> lights is used to spank the hell out of the kid that left the switch
> on. This is the ultimate in justice.
>
> I must say this. Since your parents had to yell at you for not
> turning off lights, and your kids are doing it now, this proves it's
> hereditary. You passed this harmful and wasteful gene onto your
> children. Remember this as you spank them, and be sure you place
> yourself in the spanking machine after the kids are well done or
> beaten raw. You too deserve a major whalloping.
>
I have a better solution.The OP would hire me to brainwash his kids.I could
drone on and on for hours, to persuade them on the value of money, and the
singularity of electricity.I could accompany my (deliberately) boring speech
with scientific facts.Even if you include the flight cost from Greece to
USA, in the long run you'll save enough.
Come on, why not shut the lights off yourself;-)That's what I am doing,
anyway.
[color=darkred]
>
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:05:48 GMT, Michael Balarama
> <mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
I[color=darkred]
enough[color=darkred]
existing[color=darkred]

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr

Robert L Bass

2007-01-22, 5:25 pm

> you need to arm the electronic,
> remote controlled spanking paddle

Someone has been spending way too
much time watching Howard Stern. :^)

Got Chalk

2007-01-23, 1:25 pm

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:44:42 -0500, John McGaw wrote:
> I have a few low-end units, one in my garage, one in
> the entry hall from the garage, and one in the laundry room and have and
> no problem with any of them unless you include a seeming unwillingness
> to work with a CF-only load.

What is a CF only load?

Todd H.

2007-01-23, 1:25 pm

Got Chalk <gotchalk@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:44:42 -0500, John McGaw wrote:
>
> What is a CF only load?

Compact fluorescent lightbulbs.

I have one of these deals as well and it's a bit annoying that it
won't work with bulbs that are too low a wattage (as in CF's).

--
--
Todd H.
http://toddh.net/

Bennett Price

2007-01-23, 1:25 pm

How about charging the kids for the wasted electricity?

Michael Balarama wrote:
> Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
> My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
> find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
> it's a losing cause.
>
> Maybe there is a better way?
>
> Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
> replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive enough
> to be practical?
>
> Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
> turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the existing
> light switch boxes?
>
> Please advise.
> Thanks

Steve Lockridge

2007-01-23, 1:25 pm

tester@testing123.com wrote:
> Take a photocell and connect it to a timer, and connect the timer to a
> very loud alarm that can be heard for miles, such as the ones that
> cities use for tornados. It works like this. The photocell senses
> the light which turns on the timer. If the timer runs for lets say 10
> minutes, it flips on the alarm. That alarm will deafen anyone nearby,
> and not only the kids know they are about to get the worst spanking in
> history, but you are alerted that you need to arm the electronic,
> remote controlled spanking paddle, which of course has electronic
> sensors built in, so that it delivers the most painful spanking but
> without leaving any permanent scars or bruises. When all is complete
> and done, consider this: The electricity saved by shutting off the
> lights is used to spank the hell out of the kid that left the switch
> on. This is the ultimate in justice.
>
> I must say this. Since your parents had to yell at you for not
> turning off lights, and your kids are doing it now, this proves it's
> hereditary. You passed this harmful and wasteful gene onto your
> children. Remember this as you spank them, and be sure you place
> yourself in the spanking machine after the kids are well done or
> beaten raw. You too deserve a major whalloping.

You know, some people want to make that spanking thing illegal. Maybe
they have a plan to control all of the juvenile delinquents that will
be created by prohibiting parents from disciplining their children
properly.

I have a question about turning lights on and off. I have been told
that leaving a light on maximizes its life and turning it on and off
frequently will shorten its life. Is this true? My background is in
transformers and it is better to leave them running than to shut them
off. Of course, we're talking about several thousand volts versus a
120V light bulb. Thanks.

Steve Lockridge
Manager
Alfa Transformer Company
http://www.alfatransformer.com

VWWall

2007-01-23, 5:27 pm

Steve Lockridge wrote:
>
> I have a question about turning lights on and off. I have been told
> that leaving a light on maximizes its life and turning it on and off
> frequently will shorten its life. Is this true? My background is in
> transformers and it is better to leave them running than to shut them
> off. Of course, we're talking about several thousand volts versus a
> 120V light bulb. Thanks.

A tungsten filament lamp almost always expires the last time you turn it
on. (Sort of like why you always find something in the last place you
look.) The current surge in a cold filament and rapid expansion causes
the failure. The total time before this last gasp is probably about the
same even if the lamp is cycled on and off.

So if it were left burning, it's total hours would be longer than if you
had not turned it off, and then on, the last time.

Fluorescent lamps rely on a starter mechanism which degrades with use.
They may benefit from fewer on-off cycles.

As an aside, in the UK and other 240V lighting countries, an expiring
lamp will often cause a large enough "plasma arc" to take out the
circuit protection. Hence the lamps commonly include an "internal
fuse". This not needed at 120V.

--
Virg Wall, P.E.

Dave Houston

2007-01-23, 5:27 pm

"Steve Lockridge" <steve@websitewarehouse.com> wrote:

>I have a question about turning lights on and off. I have been told
>that leaving a light on maximizes its life and turning it on and off
>frequently will shorten its life. Is this true? My background is in
>transformers and it is better to leave them running than to shut them
>off. Of course, we're talking about several thousand volts versus a
>120V light bulb. Thanks.

Read "The Great Internet Light Bulb Book" at...

http://members.misty.com/don/bulb1.html#hdi

http://davehouston.net
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/roZetta/
roZetta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Don Klipstein

2007-01-23, 8:25 pm

In article <RRtth.14592$yx6.3244@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
VWWall wrote:
>Steve Lockridge wrote:
>
>A tungsten filament lamp almost always expires the last time you turn it
>on. (Sort of like why you always find something in the last place you
>look.) The current surge in a cold filament and rapid expansion causes
>the failure. The total time before this last gasp is probably about the
>same even if the lamp is cycled on and off.
>
>So if it were left burning, it's total hours would be longer than if you
>had not turned it off, and then on, the last time.

Strange thing few people seem to realize about most incandescents - a
cold start does not cause much actual wear, but kills a filament that
would have survived a little longer if it was not turned off.

The usual cold start burnout is from a temperature overshoot in a thin
spot in the filament. The thin spot is a hot spot, and on a cold start
the thin spot can overshoot in temperature before the remainder of the
filament has warmed up. Resistance of the filament material varies
directly with temperature, so a thin spot overshoots in temperature
from the current surge before the remainder of the filament has full
resistance and the current drops to normal.

However, a thin spot is is hotter than the remainder of the filament
even during steady operation (but to a lesser extent than during a cold
start). The hotspot will evaporate faster and get thinner at a faster
rate, making it hotter and thinner. This downward spiral accelerates in a
manner worse than exponentially. By the time the thin spot cannot survive
a cold start, the filament's hours are numbered!

>Fluorescent lamps rely on a starter mechanism which degrades with use.
>They may benefit from fewer on-off cycles.

The bulbs also suffer actual wear from starting. How much life is lost
varies with the type of ballast and starting means and this has been
improved over the decades. I am under the impression that a typical
figure is 10 minutes of life lost per start.
As for how much off time is needed before the electricity saved from
turning off a fluorescent exceeds the fraction of the bulb's cost
associated with life reduction of a start - this varies with electricity
cost, bulb (lamp, tube, whatever) cost, and ballast and starting method,
but is typically a couple minutes for 4-footers, ballpark of 10-30 minutes
for lower wattages 9-22 watts, and ballpark of 30-60 minutes for wattages
8 watts or less.

>As an aside, in the UK and other 240V lighting countries, an expiring
>lamp will often cause a large enough "plasma arc" to take out the
>circuit protection. Hence the lamps commonly include an "internal
>fuse". This not needed at 120V.

My experience in the USA is that 120V gas-filled incandescent lamps often
have an internal fuse. In the USA that bright blue flash from a cold
start burnout is this "plasma arc". At 120V that arc tends to die at the
next end of a half cycle and some incandescents lacked this fuse and
usually got away with it, but sometimes things got nastier and one thing
that sometimes happened (I would guess mainly when this fuse was lacking)
was that wires between the glass bulb and the base would either fuse
explosively or vaporize adjacent glue - and the glass bulb pops from the
base!
These "burnout arcs" sometimes also blow dimmers with the large amount
of current that they sometimes draw even at 120V.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

Phillip Devoll

2007-01-23, 8:25 pm

"Michael Balarama" <mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:fma0hm3qigoi$.11qqgd0svwefl.dlg@40tude.net...
> Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
> My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
> find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
> it's a losing cause.
>
> Maybe there is a better way?
>
> Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
> replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive
enough
> to be practical?
>
> Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
> turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the
existing
> light switch boxes?
>
> Please advise.
> Thanks

Get a timer motion dectector hat fixs in a 1 gang box and i found one for 44
bucks at home depot...

Pablo

2007-01-26, 1:25 pm

Sure, my neighborhood bar has them in the restrooms-men's at least.

"Michael Balarama" <mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:fma0hm3qigoi$.11qqgd0svwefl.dlg@40tude.net...
> Does an automatic shutoff energy saver light switch exist?
>
> My parents always yelled at us to shut off our lights constantly and now I
> find myself constantly yelling at the kids to shut the lights off. I know
> it's a losing cause.
>
> Maybe there is a better way?
>
> Do they have automatic-shut-off light switches I can simply remove and
> replace my existing standard light switches is? Are they inexpensive
> enough
> to be practical?
>
> Better yet, do reasonably priced light switches exist that automatically
> turn the lights on and off as you walk by? Do they also fit in the
> existing
> light switch boxes?
>
> Please advise.
> Thanks
>

Teddy Rubberford

2008-01-17, 9:25 am

Ted Rubberford - The Man In The Taught Rubberoid Suit!
<tester@testing123.com> wrote in message
news:lm99r2p8l9i03suds5tk0tga9cv8t7dcvn@4ax.com...
> Take a photocell and connect it to a timer, and connect the timer to a
> very loud alarm that can be heard for miles, such as the ones that
> cities use for tornados. It works like this. The photocell senses
> the light which turns on the timer. If the timer runs for lets say 10
> minutes, it flips on the alarm. That alarm will deafen anyone nearby,
> and not only the kids know they are about to get the worst spanking in
> history, but you are alerted that you need to arm the electronic,
> remote controlled spanking paddle, which of course has electronic
> sensors built in, so that it delivers the most painful spanking but
> without leaving any permanent scars or bruises. When all is complete
> and done, consider this: The electricity saved by shutting off the
> lights is used to spank the hell out of the kid that left the switch
> on. This is the ultimate in justice.
>
> I must say this. Since your parents had to yell at you for not
> turning off lights, and your kids are doing it now, this proves it's
> hereditary. You passed this harmful and wasteful gene onto your
> children. Remember this as you spank them, and be sure you place
> yourself in the spanking machine after the kids are well done or
> beaten raw. You too deserve a major whalloping.
>
> Tester
>
> --------------
>
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 23:05:48 GMT, Michael Balarama
> <mbalar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>

Joshua Kugler

2008-01-17, 1:25 pm

Teddy Rubberford wrote:
[color=darkred]

I've seen motion detector light switches at Lowes. I don't remember the
price, though. You set them for a certain delay, and after so much
non-movement, they shut off. What I'm looking for now is a humidity
activated switch that automatically turns on the bathroom fan when it gets
too steamy in there.

Palindrome

2008-01-17, 5:25 pm

Joshua Kugler wrote:
> Teddy Rubberford wrote:
>
>
> I've seen motion detector light switches at Lowes. I don't remember the
> price, though. You set them for a certain delay, and after so much
> non-movement, they shut off. What I'm looking for now is a humidity
> activated switch that automatically turns on the bathroom fan when it gets
> too steamy in there.

>
Bathroom fans with humidity switches are standard stock items.

Automatic (timer/pir) light switches are standard stock items.

I have PIR lighting on most of my stairs and hallways. They are
supplemented by a number of push button (actually pneumatic) timer
switches that I can operate with an elbow.

The one thing I very certainly do not want to do on the stairs is to try
and find a light switch in the dark, or operate it when both hands are
already full carrying something.

Nagging people to turn off hall and stairway lamps is one of life's
pleasures that I would rather do without.
--
SUe

phil-news-nospam@ipal.net

2008-01-17, 5:25 pm

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:46:45 GMT Palindrome <me9@privacy.net> wrote:

| The one thing I very certainly do not want to do on the stairs is to try
| and find a light switch in the dark, or operate it when both hands are
| already full carrying something.

Or try to figure out whether it is currently off pointing up and needs to
be pushed down, or is currently off pointing down and needs to be pushed up.
That's why I won't have 3-way switches on stairs or even in hallways.

| Nagging people to turn off hall and stairway lamps is one of life's
| pleasures that I would rather do without.

That's definitely something I will be considering in a lot of places.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark Lloyd

2008-01-17, 8:25 pm

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:15:37 -0900, Joshua Kugler
<jkugler@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Teddy Rubberford wrote:
>
>
>I've seen motion detector light switches at Lowes.

Those won't work properly with florescent lights.

> I don't remember the
>price, though. You set them for a certain delay, and after so much
>non-movement, they shut off. What I'm looking for now is a humidity
>activated switch that automatically turns on the bathroom fan when it gets
>too steamy in there.

>
>j
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

gfretwell@aol.com

2008-01-17, 8:25 pm

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:23:44 -0600, Mark Lloyd
<mlloyd@xmail.com10.invalid> wrote:

>
>Those won't work properly with florescent lights.

Why not? Other than cycling more often, which hastens early end of
life, they work fine. I have had a motion sensor on my garage lights
for years.

Palindrome

2008-01-17, 8:25 pm

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:23:44 -0600, Mark Lloyd
> <mlloyd@xmail.com10.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> Why not? Other than cycling more often, which hastens early end of
> life, they work fine. I have had a motion sensor on my garage lights
> for years.

It probably has line and neutral (return) in, rather than just line in
and line out and uses a miniature relay to switch the load on/off with
no dimming function.

The ones with just line in and line out and with a triac as the control
element, rather than a relay, can be a problem with some loads.

--
Sue

gfretwell@aol.com

2008-01-17, 8:25 pm

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:49:23 GMT, Palindrome <me9@privacy.net> wrote:

>gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>It probably has line and neutral (return) in, rather than just line in
>and line out and uses a miniature relay to switch the load on/off with
>no dimming function.
>
>The ones with just line in and line out and with a triac as the control
>element, rather than a relay, can be a problem with some loads.

If they cheaped out and used an SCR I can see the problem but even
then I doubt an electronic ballast would even notice. You might get
some flicker in the light since it would only be seeing a half wave. A
Triac in saturation should just be "on". I have all sorts of stuff
running on SSRs (PCs, TVs, audio amps) and IBM did it all the time.
(where I got the SSRs)

gfretwell@aol.com

2008-01-17, 8:25 pm

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:49:23 GMT, Palindrome <me9@privacy.net> wrote:

>gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>
>It probably has line and neutral (return) in, rather than just line in
>and line out and uses a miniature relay to switch the load on/off with
>no dimming function.
>
>The ones with just line in and line out and with a triac as the control
>element, rather than a relay, can be a problem with some loads.

I have seen a discussion about this that said if you are using a
parisitic switch module (no neutral connection) you might not get
enough current through a CFL when off to power the circuit.

bud--

2008-01-18, 3:25 am

Joshua Kugler wrote:

> What I'm looking for now is a humidity
> activated switch that automatically turns on the bathroom fan when it gets
> too steamy in there.

I have a line voltage humidistat from Honeywell. It surface mounts on a
wall box - air needs to get at the sensor.

--
bud--

Palindrome

2008-01-18, 3:25 am

gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:49:23 GMT, Palindrome <me9@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> If they cheaped out and used an SCR I can see the problem but even
> then I doubt an electronic ballast would even notice. You might get
> some flicker in the light since it would only be seeing a half wave. A
> Triac in saturation should just be "on". I have all sorts of stuff
> running on SSRs (PCs, TVs, audio amps) and IBM did it all the time.
> (where I got the SSRs)

It isn't the ballast that notices. It's the triac. The designer* relies
on a minimum load current after the triac has been triggered, to hold
the thing on until the next voltage zero crossing point. Loads like
fluorescents often don't satisfy that design criteria.

*Who is working to a requirement. Tell him that a minimum load current
cannot be guaranteed and he will keep sending firing pulses to the
triac, so that, even if it tried to drop out, it would almost
immediately be re-triggered. But this does add (a little) to the cost.

It isn't so much that some designers cheap out and use an SCR, it is
that they cheap out and don't send a train of trigger pulses to the
triac, but just one.

--
Sue

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