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Home > Archive > Electrical Engineering > January 2008 > Is this wiring illegal in the USA?
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| Author |
Is this wiring illegal in the USA?
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|
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| The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. I
actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit
would. If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet?
http://www.phaesun.com/produktPopup...101593&flash=no
Chuck
| |
| Gerald Newton 2008-01-29, 5:25 pm |
| On Jan 29, 10:50=A0am, "Chuck" <ch...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. =A0I=
> actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit
> would. =A0If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet=
?
>
> http://www.phaesun.com/produktPopup...1593&flash=3Dno
>
> Chuck
Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2008-01-29, 5:25 pm |
| On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 19:50:11 GMT, "Chuck" <chuck@mchsi.com> wrote:
>The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. I
>actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit
>would. If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet?
>
>http://www.phaesun.com/produktPopup...101593&flash=no
>
>Chuck
>
It is probably not U/L listed
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2008-01-29, 9:25 pm |
| On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:37:05 -0800 (PST) Gerald Newton <electrician@electrician2.com> wrote:
| On Jan 29, 10:50?am, "Chuck" <ch...@mchsi.com> wrote:
|> The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. ?I
|> actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit
|> would. ?If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet?
|>
|> http://www.phaesun.com/produktPopup...101593&flash=no
|>
|> Chuck
|
| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
What other listing agencies would make it legal?
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2008-01-29-2048@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
| Long Ranger 2008-01-30, 3:25 am |
|
"Chuck" <chuck@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:TrLnj.7177$yE1.6735@attbi_s21...
> The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. I
> actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit
> would. If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet?
>
> http://www.phaesun.com/produktPopup...101593&flash=no
>
> Chuck
>If you are contemplating one that is actually made of flexible metal, it is
>probably not allowed based on the fact that there is no ground connection
>from a lampholder.
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2008-01-30, 3:25 am |
| On 30 Jan 2008 02:48:53 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
>
>What other listing agencies would make it legal
ETL, TUV or any other NRTL
| |
| Tom Horne 2008-01-30, 3:25 am |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:37:05 -0800 (PST) Gerald Newton <electrician@electrician2.com> wrote:
> | On Jan 29, 10:50?am, "Chuck" <ch...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> |> The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. ?I
> |> actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit
> |> would. ?If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet?
> |>
> |> http://www.phaesun.com/produktPopup...101593&flash=no
> |>
> |> Chuck
> |
> | Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
> | If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
>
> What other listing agencies would make it legal?
>
ETL is the recognized abbreviation for Electrical Testing Laboratories
which is now a division of Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. They
provide product testing for conformance to recognized safety standards.
There listing mark is just as acceptable in the safety inspection
industry as UL. It's just not as well known to the General Public.
--
Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison
| |
|
| Itz da perfect male torture device
hahaha I am so twisted };)
Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
[have tools, will travel]
| |
| Palindrome 2008-01-30, 3:25 am |
| Roy wrote:
> Itz da perfect male torture device
>
> hahaha I am so twisted };)
>
>
Well, if you ever mistook one of those for your recreational device with
the vacuum pump bulb on the end. you sure would be.
"Sunday Extenda" indeed... you couldn't make it up..Someone has a great
sense of humour. What next, an "Everyready Rabbit"?
--
Sue
| |
|
|
"Long Ranger" <lorpkins@earthlink .net> wrote in message
news:-_udnbaNG624YgLanZ2dnUVZ_ternZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Chuck" <chuck@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:TrLnj.7177$yE1.6735@attbi_s21...
>
Ahhhhhhhhh....... that is the explanation I was looking for. Thank you.
Chuck
| |
|
| From Palindrome)
Roy wrote:
Itz da perfect male torture device
hahaha I am so twisted };)
-----------------
Well, if you ever mistook one of those for your recreational device with
the vacuum pump bulb on the end. you sure would be.
"Sunday Extenda" indeed... you couldn't make it up..Someone has a great
sense of humour. What next, an "Everyready Rabbit"?
--
Sue
----------------------
It's probably another good reason it might not be approved in the
USA...Though I've met a few Hardcore [tap into the mains with their bare
fingers] show off Electricians that I'd challenge to try it, since they
are so comfy with electricity, I guess they'd have fun putting a pot or
a dimmer on it and just Plug & PLay teeheehee }
Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
[have tools, will travel]
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2008-01-30, 5:25 pm |
| On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:32:22 -0500 gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
| On 30 Jan 2008 02:48:53 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|
|>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
|>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
|>
|>What other listing agencies would make it legal
|
| ETL, TUV or any other NRTL
OK, so then those Schuko outlets I imported from Germany should be allowed.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2008-01-30-1644@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
|
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:32:22 -0500 gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> | On 30 Jan 2008 02:48:53 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
> |
> |>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
> |>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
> |>
> |>What other listing agencies would make it legal
> |
> | ETL, TUV or any other NRTL
>
> OK, so then those Schuko outlets I imported from Germany should be allowed.
>
[NRTL = Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory]
The NEC religiously avoids mention NRTLs and requires approval by the
notorious authority-having-jurisdiction. I have never seen anything
general about what is acceptable to AHJs. I suspect most jurisdictions
follow what OSHA does, partly for legal cover-your-XXX reasons.
OSHA was sued, twice, to force recognition of labs other than the long
established UL, FM, and probably ETL. OSHA now has a list of NRTLs. OSHA
also has a list of standards for inspection. Most electrical standards
are from UL, some IEEE, a few FM... (?The standards may all have gone
through the ANSI approval process?) I don't remember any standards that
are from the new NRTLs. OSHA qualifies each NRTL as able to do approvals
for specific standards. Some OSHA NRTLs do no electrical approvals,some
may do only one, some (like UL) many.
As I understand OSHA, the standards for inspection haven't changed, but
additional laboratories can list/label products as meeting those
standards. That means new inspection marks to be familiar with. And
figuring out what your AHJ allows. [Is much product from new NRTLs
actually out there?]
So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
--
bud--
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2008-01-31, 9:25 am |
| On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:58:17 -0600 bud-- <remove.budnews@isp.com> wrote:
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:32:22 -0500 gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
|> | On 30 Jan 2008 02:48:53 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|> |
|> |>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
|> |>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
|> |>
|> |>What other listing agencies would make it legal
|> |
|> | ETL, TUV or any other NRTL
|>
|> OK, so then those Schuko outlets I imported from Germany should be allowed.
|>
|
| [NRTL = Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory]
|
| The NEC religiously avoids mention NRTLs and requires approval by the
| notorious authority-having-jurisdiction. I have never seen anything
| general about what is acceptable to AHJs. I suspect most jurisdictions
| follow what OSHA does, partly for legal cover-your-XXX reasons.
|
| OSHA was sued, twice, to force recognition of labs other than the long
| established UL, FM, and probably ETL. OSHA now has a list of NRTLs. OSHA
| also has a list of standards for inspection. Most electrical standards
| are from UL, some IEEE, a few FM... (?The standards may all have gone
| through the ANSI approval process?) I don't remember any standards that
| are from the new NRTLs. OSHA qualifies each NRTL as able to do approvals
| for specific standards. Some OSHA NRTLs do no electrical approvals,some
| may do only one, some (like UL) many.
|
| As I understand OSHA, the standards for inspection haven't changed, but
| additional laboratories can list/label products as meeting those
| standards. That means new inspection marks to be familiar with. And
| figuring out what your AHJ allows. [Is much product from new NRTLs
| actually out there?]
|
| So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
So what is wrong with TUV?
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2008-01-31-0826@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2008-01-31, 1:25 pm |
| On 31 Jan 2008 14:26:54 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
>| So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
>
>So what is wrong with TUV?
Nothing and if TUV/US has listed these they are legal ... but I doubt
it. You also may bump up against the listing for lamp holders.
I really don't know what is in UL496 and how it deals with pendant
adapters. I don't see any reference in the U/L white book.
| |
|
|
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7dr3q3917f8cv5nt6jomijej12ej9tej5t@4ax.com...
> On 31 Jan 2008 14:26:54 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
>
>
> Nothing and if TUV/US has listed these they are legal ... but I doubt
> it. You also may bump up against the listing for lamp holders.
> I really don't know what is in UL496 and how it deals with pendant
> adapters. I don't see any reference in the U/L white book.
So in plain English, why is it that I can buy a metallic lamp or appliance
with a two-prong plug (line and neutral - no ground) but not the flexible
socket extender? No I am confused again.
Chuck
| |
| gfretwell@aol.com 2008-01-31, 8:25 pm |
| On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:58:30 GMT, "Chuck" <chuck@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:7dr3q3917f8cv5nt6jomijej12ej9tej5t@4ax.com...
>
>So in plain English, why is it that I can buy a metallic lamp or appliance
>with a two-prong plug (line and neutral - no ground) but not the flexible
>socket extender? No I am confused again.
>
>Chuck
>
All "not listed"means is this has not been tested to the US standards.
It may be perfectly safe. There are plenty of unlisted products for
sale here but they end up in flea markets and dollar stores. The cops
are nolt going raid you and throw you in jail unless you are
counterfeting a trademark. If somebody gets hurt with the product the
seller has one less layer of protection from law suit with unlisted
products.
| |
|
| Chuck wrote:
> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:7dr3q3917f8cv5nt6jomijej12ej9tej5t@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> So in plain English, why is it that I can buy a metallic lamp or appliance
> with a two-prong plug (line and neutral - no ground) but not the flexible
> socket extender? No I am confused again.
>
> Chuck
>
>
An extender such as you describe would put mechanical
stress on the socket you are extending, far beyond
whatever mechanical stress a bulb puts on that socket.
Without *knowing* for sure, I strongly suspect that
manufacturers would avoid trying to make a product such
as you describe that could get UL (or other lab) listing,
because such listing would be costly or impossible
to obtain.
In my opinion, even the flexible one shown in the link you
provided is a bad idea, because of the stress it puts on the
existing socket. One that is rigid enough to retain the shape
you bend in into would be far worse.
Ed
| |
| phil-news-nospam@ipal.net 2008-01-31, 8:25 pm |
| On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:20:59 -0500 gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
| On 31 Jan 2008 14:26:54 GMT, phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote:
|
|>| So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
|>
|>So what is wrong with TUV?
|
| Nothing and if TUV/US has listed these they are legal ... but I doubt
| it. You also may bump up against the listing for lamp holders.
| I really don't know what is in UL496 and how it deals with pendant
| adapters. I don't see any reference in the U/L white book.
But what of TUV from Europe. These devices are safe in Europe. How is it
they become unsafe in the USA? Is it because both pins would have line
voltage on them at the same time? I think not since the Schuko must be
safe with 240 volts line voltage (relative to ground) on either pin.
Yes, these devices would be considered unsafe on a 120 volt circuit in the
USA due to lack of polarization. However, they would be safe on a 240 volt
circuit because the polarization is not relevant on USA split 240 volt.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / spamtrap-2008-01-31-2009@ipal.net |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
|
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