Electrical code Compliance

Author

Q ng name

Pop

2005-11-19, 2:21 pm

Interesting group name; what "compliance" does this ng relate to?
Or does no one remember any longer? <g>

Pop

--
---
twaynesdomain.com:
Best little website in
the North Country!

Nobody Here

2005-11-20, 8:21 am

Pop <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
> Interesting group name; what "compliance" does this ng relate to?
> Or does no one remember any longer? <g>

Depends. European posters use it for CE compliance related stuff
almost exclusively, Americans use it for electricl code type
discussions, and very occasionally to get CE advice if they're
exporting to Europe. It makes for an odd mix!

--
Nobby

Mark Zenier

2005-11-20, 2:21 pm

In article <nPKdnZshda0W_eLenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@usadatanet.net>,
Pop <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
>Interesting group name; what "compliance" does this ng relate to?
>Or does no one remember any longer? <g>

Digging out the first postings to the group. From April 1996,
(email addressed removed)

INTRODUCTION
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Welcome to sci.engr.electrical.compliance (s.e.e.c).

This is the FAQ for the sci.engr.electrical.compliance newsgroup. It
supersedes the "Pre-FAQ: Sources of EMC & Safety Compliance Information"
which was posted to sci.physics.electromag monthly from January 15, 1996
until April 4, 1996 pending the establishment of the s.e.e.c newsgroup.

This FAQ was created by, and is currently maintained by, Bill Lyons
<[censored]> or <[censored]>, who welcomes suggestions
for additions or amendments.

It will be posted to s.e.e.c approximately monthly, with pointers in the
following related newsgroups:

sci.electronics.misc sci.electronics.design
sci.physics.electromag alt.engineering.electrical

Also, on this occasion (only) the FAQ has also been posted in full to
sci.physics.electromag (s.p.e) for the benefit of those whose news servers
may have a delay in making s.e.e.c available. IF YOU ARE READING THIS IN
s.p.e PLEASE CHECK THE AVAILABILITY OF s.e.e.c FROM YOUR NEWS SERVER, as it
is expected compliance discussions will transfer to s.e.e.c from now on.

CONTENTS
~~~~~~~~
1. The sci.engr.electrical.compliance newsgroup
2. Journals devoted wholly or mainly to EMC and safety compliance matters
3. Non-Internet Newsgroups
4. Listservers
5. WWW Sites
6. Standards Organizations
7. Specifications for Safety and EMC Compliance
8. CE Mark
9. Books and Guides
10. Official & Quasi-official Advice
11. Commonly-asked Questions and Answers about the EMC Directive
12. Acknowledgments

1. The sci.engr.electrical.compliance newsgroup
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The desire for a Usenet newsgroup devoted to "compliance" matters such as
EMC and safety relative to electrical and electronic equipment has been
expressed by a number of posters to various newsgroups. As part of the
reorganization of the sci.electronics.* heirarchy carried out by Mark
Zenier <mzenier@netcom.com>, he had prepared a draft Request for Discussion
(RFD), and this became the basis for the establishment of s.e.e.c

The following is taken from the final RFD and the successful CFV (Call for
Votes) which resulted in the creation of s.e.e.c:-

Newsgroups line:
sci.engr.electrical.compliance -
Laws, regulations and design for EMC, safety.

CHARTER: sci.engr.electrical.compliance

Discussions on the laws, regulations, and safety approval procedures
governing the production, design and marketing of electronic and electrical
equipment, and the engineering techniques used to comply with them.

RATIONALE: sci.engr.electrical.compliance

Discussions on how to manufacture electronic equipment that has to meet the
various government regulations are occuring in several different newsgroups
(sci.electronics.misc, sci.physics.electromag, alt.engineering.electrical)
and various persons have expressed the desire to have a common location.
(There is large interest in Europe and with companies who export to there
due to recent European Union regulations.)

The name is derived from the common name of this subfield of electrical
engineering, compliance engineering.

The remainder of this FAQ is devoted to a listing of sources of information
relevant to the newsgroup, and some commonly asked questions and answers.
PLEASE ADVISE CORRECTIONS OF ANY ERRORS YOU MAY DETECT, OR SUGGESTIONS OF
ADDITIONAL USEFUL INFORMATION, AS INDICATED AT THE END OF THIS FAQ.

2. Journals devoted wholly or mainly to EMC and safety compliance matters
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Additionally many, perhaps most, electrical/electronic journals include
articles, sections or features on EMC/compliance) NB: L = UK pounds

APPROVAL - "The engineering guide to European quality, standards
and regulations "
6 issues per year - UK L39, EU L48, RoW L55 p.a.

M & M Business Communications Ltd
Wellington House, Ashford Road, Maidstone ME14 5BH, UK
Adrian McLeod, Editor
Tel: +44 (0)1622 688 135
Fax: +44 (0)1622 688 132
email: approval@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subscriptions/advertising: +44 (0)1622 688 134

COMPLIANCE ENGINEERING
"The magazine for international regulatory compliance"
Bimonthly, no charge to qualified persons

One Tech Drive, Suite 215, Andover, MA 01810, USA
Daniel J Griffin, Editor-in-Chief
Glen R Dash, Isidor Straus, Executive Editors
Pamela J Nadeau, Circulation Manager
Phone: +1 508 681-6600
email: ce@ix.netcom.com
URL: http://world.std.com/~billsmr
BBS: +1 508 635-0907 (Inchcape Testing Services BBS)

COMPLIANCE ENGINEERING, EUROPEAN EDITION
No charge to qualified persons

Unit 10, Mansfield Park, Cranleigh, Surrey GU6 8PY, UK
Phone: +44 (0)1483 271288 (editorial/advertising
+44 (0)1483 267579 (subscriptions)

THE EMC JOURNAL

Nutwood UK Ltd, Mansel Court, Mansel Gamage, Hereford HR4 7LE, UK
Alan E Hutley, Publisher (email: 101672.1215@compuserve.com)
Dave Fynn, News & Features Editor
Phone: +44 (0)1981 590481
Fax: +44 (0)1981 590223
Malcolm A Burchall, Technical Editor
Phone: +44 (0)1628 778446
Fax: +44 (0)1828 788294

EMC TEST & DESIGN
Published nine times a year, $42 US, $57 (surface), $82 (air) foreign

6300 S Syracuse Way, Suite 650, Englewood, CO 80111, USA
Phone: +1 303 220-0600
Fax: +1 303 267-0234
Gary A Breed, Editorial Director
Subscriptions: Argus Circulation Center,
PO Box 41528, Nashville, TN 27204-9957
Phone: +1 615 377-3322

IEEE ELECTROMAGNETIC COMPATIBILITY SOCIETY NEWSLETTER
Quarterly: no charge to IEEE EMC society members.

The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc.
445 Hoes Lane, PO Box 1331, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331, USA
Phone: +1 908 981-0060
Fax: +1 908 981-9667
Telex: 833-233
email: member.services@ieee.org

Robert D Goldblum, Editor
R & B Enterprises, 20 Clipper Road,
West Conshohocken, PA 19428-2721
Phone: +1 610 825-1960
Fax: +1 610 825-1684
email: rbent@pipeline.com
URL: http://www.emclab.umr.edu/

IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON ELECTROMAGNETIC COMPATIBILITY

The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc.
445 Hoes Lane, PO Box 1331, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1331, USA
Phone: +1 908 981-0060
Fax: +1 908 981-9667
Telex: 833-233
email: member.services@ieee.org

Motohisa Kanda, Editor (NIST)

INTERFERENCE TECHNOLOGY ENGINEER'S MASTER (ITEM) MAGAZINE
Published twice annually as ITEM and ITEM Update
No charge to qualified persons

R & B Enterprises Div. of Robar Industries, Inc.
20 Clipper Road, West Conshohocken, PA 19428-2721, USA
Phone: +1 610 825-1960
Fax: +1 610 825-1684

INTERNATIONAL PRODUCT SAFETY NEWS (ISSN 1040-7529)
"The Newsletter Devoted to Product Safety Compliance"
Published six times a year

Product Safety International (PSI)
PO Box 1561-PFAQ, Middletown, CT 06457-8061, USA
Phone: +1 860 344-1651
Fax: +1 869 346-9066
email: ipsn.pfaq@safetylink.com
URL: http://www.safetylink.com
"The Safety Link is the Internet's most comprehensive collection of
(electrical) product safety and standards links"

Arthur E Michael, Editor

SAFETY AND EMC NEWSLETTER
Published bimonthly. L110/$192 p.a.

ERA Technology Ltd
Cleeve Road, Leatherhead, Surrey KT22 7SA, UK
Phone: +44 1372 367014 (publication sales)
+44 1372 367000 (switchboard)
Fax: +44 1372 377927

Natalie Wood, Editor

3. Non-Internet Newsgroups
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CiX CE_mark Newsgroup: details at http://www.compulink.co.uk

4. Listservers
~~~~~~~~~~~
EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC Regulatory E-Mail Grapevine

Hosted by the IEEE, the EMC-PSTC is an informal group of
people interested in Product Safety regulations and
standards world-wide, networked electronically by mailing
list. Its purpose is to provide a forum for the sharing of
public, but possibly obscure Product Safety or Regulatory
Compliance information, or related information with limited
natural distribution. All mail sent to the Internet
address will be immediately echoed to everyone on the list
by an automated list server.

for subscription info send email to
majordomo@majordomo.ieee.org containing in the body of the
message only the words:

info emc-pstc

(no subject header needed)

Telecom
Compliance: Telecom Regulatory E-Mail Grapevine (TREG)

TREG is an informal group of people interested in
telecommunications regulations and standards world-wide,
networked electronically by mailing list. Its purpose is
to provide a forum for the sharing of public, but esoteric
or possibly obscure telecom compliance information, or
related information with limited natural distribution.
Members need only send contributions to:

treg@world.std.com

All mail sent to this Internet address will be immediately
echoed to everyone on the TREG list by an automated list
server.

SUBSCRIBING OR UNSUBSCRIBING - Send an Internet e-mail
request with the phrase "subscribe treg" or "unsubscribe
treg" in it to:

majordomo@world.std.com

5. WWW Sites
~~~~~~~~~
Compliance Engineering: http://world.std.com/~billsmr
http://www.ce-mag.com

EMC-Product Safety Discussion Forum:
http://uc.com/compliance_engineering/pstc_db.htm

IEEE Electromagnetic Compatibility Society:
http://www.emclab.umr.edu/

National Weights and Measures Laboratory (UK):
http://www.dti.gov.uk/nwml

PQ-Chat (Electrotek PQ-net): http://www.electrotek.com

Safety Link: http://www.safetylink.com

"The Safety Link is the Internet's most comprehensive collection of
(electrical) product safety and standards links"

Summary of EMC issues http://www.compulink.co.uk/~duchess/emc.htm

Test & Measurement World http://world.std.com/~techbook

"Links to info on the EMC Directive. The links are to noncommercial
sites where you can find technical info such as what are the standards
applicable to the EMC Directive. Also a link to the column 'Can You
Afford the CE Marking?'"

6. Standards Organizations
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FAQ: Safety and EMC Compliance - Organizations

First posted to sci.physics.electromag on 01 April 1996. Will be
posted in future to sci.engr.electrical.compliance (this group).
Maintained by Paul E Bennett <peb@transcontech.co.uk> who will welcome
additions and amendments.

7. Specifications for Safety and EMC Compliance
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
7.1 FAQ: Safety and EMC Compliance - European Standards

First posted to sci.physics.electromag on 01 April 1996. Will be
posted in future to sci.engr.electrical.compliance (this group).
Maintained by Paul E Bennett <peb@transcontech.co.uk> who will
welcome additions and amendments.

7.2 FAQ: Safety and EMC Compliance - North American Standards

Volunteers to generate and maintain this FAQ are required.

7.3 FAQ: Safety and EMC Compliance - R-o-W Standards

Volunteers to generate and maintain this FAQ are required.

8. The CE Mark
~~~~~~~~~~~
A copy of the CE-MARK in PCX format is available by an email request to
Jeremy Turner <Jeremy@srscomp.demon.co.uk>.

9. Books and Guides
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pre-FAQ: Safety and EMC Compliance - Books and Guides

First posted to sci.physics.electromag on 01 April 1996. Will be
posted in future to sci.engr.electrical.compliance (this group).
Maintained by Paul E Bennett <peb@transcontech.co.uk> who will welcome
additions and amendments.

10. Official & Quasi-official Advice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UK DTI - EMC TELEPHONE ADVICE LINES

NE England: 0191 377 2000
NW England: 0161 954 0954
SE England: 0990 168 186
W England: 01865 865 671
Wales, Midlands: 0990 168 162
N Ireland: 01846 623 102
Scotland: 0141 221 6121

EMC CLUBS - UK

EMC Clubs were established around various locations in the UK as a means of
bringing together those who needed information with those who were able to
provide it. Lectures are organised by the Clubs with speakers from the EMC
test houses and those companies that have already won the battle for EMC
compliance.

Recently some of the clubs have broadened their remit to the "Supply of
Machinery (Safety) Regulations 1992" which is the UK manifestation of the
EC Directives on Machine Safety.

EMC Clubs in each area resolve their own level of membership fees.

CE MARKING - ADVICE FROM BEAMA

Third Edition, February 1996 L 10
The Federation of British Electrotechnical and Allied Manufacturers'
Associations, Westminster Tower, 3 Albert Embankment, London SE1 7SL
Telephone: +44 (0) 171 793 3000 Fax: +44 (0) 171 793 3003

EUROPEAN LEGISLATIVE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MARKING OF MEASURING INSTRUMENTS

Free from The National Weights and Measures Laboratory (NWML)
Department of Trade and Industry, Stanton Avenue,
Teddington TW11 0JZ, UK.
Tel: +44 (0) 181 943 7214 Fax: +44 (0) 181 943 7270
email: 100534.2720@compuserve.com

[See also details of NWML Home Page above]

11. Commonly-asked Questions and Answers about the EMC Directive
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By Brian Jones, EMC Consultant to Nutwood UK Ltd, publishers of the EMC
Journal. Reprinted with permission from Alan E Hutley, publisher
(email: 101672.1215@compuserve.com).

Q1. Very recent guidance from the Commission has brought extra products
within the scope of the legislation. This means it was too late to
evaluate the product - what can be done?

A1. Speak to your local Trading Standards Office immediately and crave
their indulgence. Do not CE Mark your products until you are satisfied
that they conform with the protection objectives.

Q2. Is Due Diligence tempered by cost?

A2. The DTI has published a document entitled Minimising the cost of
meeting the EC Directive on Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC)89/336/EEC
as amended by the EC Directive 92/31/EEC. The first edition of this has
been reproduced in the EMC Journal. A second edition was published towards
the end of last year, and is available from the DTI. It is also reproduced
in the EMC Handbook. This document sets out the minimum actions required
to meet the legislation. It has also been suggested that courts may take
account of the value of the product, or the size of the company, in judging
a case.

The manufacturer takes sole responsibility for his products' performance,
and must be prepared to justify the actions he has taken (or not) to the
enforcement authorities.

Q3. How long can non-compliant goods in stock from the end of 1995 be
offered for sake? Can they cross borders between Member States?

A3. There is no time limit, but in the UK the DTI have indicated they will
be unhappy if non-compliant stock is not cleared before the end of 1996,
and suggest that special measures should be taken to clear slow moving
lines. There will also be commercial pressure to clear stocks.

The situation in other Member States is described in the section on
legislation across Europe (see pages 56-70 of The EMC Handbook). Whatever
the stated position of the enforcement bodies in different Member States,
it will become increasingly difficult to move non-compliant goods, and in
any case, proof must be provided.

Q4. Is military equipment excluded in all Member States?

A4. Military equipment (apparatus designed for use as arms, munitions and
war material within the meaning of article 223.1(b) of the Treaty of Rome),
is excluded from the UK Regulations provided it does not have an
alternative non-military use.

The laws are not identical in all Member States of the EEA (European
Economic Area). The EMC Handbook will identify those where compliance with
the EMC Directive is not excluded.

Q5. Who signs the Declaration of Conformity when the manufacturer is
outside the EEA? (European Economic Area)

A5. The manufacturer may sign the Declaration of Conformity whether he is
located inside or outside the EEA. If outside the EEA, then the
certificate must identify the person within the EEA who is responsible for
placing the apparatus on the EEA market. It is this person who must hold
the Declaration of Conformity at the disposal of the Competent Authorities.
A manufacturer outside the EEA may delegate his authorised representative
within the EEA to issue the Declaration of Conformity and affix the CE
mark. Supply to an authorised representative does not come within the
scope of the Regulations.

Q6. Who is an authorised representative?

A6. Someone, or a company, empowered by the manufacturer to act on his
behalf. For his own due diligence, he should be satisfied that the
information provided is sufficient to enable him to issue the Declaration
of Conformity, and that he is able to bind the manufacturer to commitments.

It is unlikely that an organisation that simply imports goods would have
the contractual position to act as an authorised representative.

Q7. What constitutes an excluded installation?

A7. In the UK, excluded installation means two or more conbined items of
relevant apparatus or systems put together at a given place, (whether or
not in combination with any other item) to fulfil a specific objective, but
not designed by the manufactuer(s) for supply as a single functional unit.
In effect, an excluded installation is a collection of compliant apparatus.

Thus a large installation supplied as a single unit is not excluded, where
as one supplied by a number of manufacturers is outside the scope ot the UK
Regulations. An example would be a production area in a factory comprising
a number of standa alone process stations each supplied by a different
manufacturer, for printed board populating, flow soldering, ultrasonic
welding, etc. Each process station would need a Declaration of Conformity
in its own right, but the production line as a whole would not.

Interpretations may differ in other Member States.

Q8. What constitutes a sub-assembly?

A8. Recent guidance from the Commission has clarified the definition, and
items which are designed, manufactured and intended to form part of an item
of apparatus do not have to comply with the Directive (only the finished
product must do so). If, however, the item would perform a direct function
for an end user, and is placed on the market, then it is covered by the
requirements of the Directive. A direct functiom is defined by the
Commission as "any function which meets the needs of a user, and which can
be directly used by such a user without the need to make any further
adjustments other than any connections essential for its power supply or
for the exchange of analogue or digital signals."

Q9. With contract manufacturing, who is responsible for the Declaration of
Conformity?

A9. In the future this will become a contractual matter to be agreed
between customer and supplier, but in many cases at present these issues
will not have been resolved before the contract was agreed. The
authorities seem to have a relaxed attitude about who issues the
Declaration of Conformity providing the declaration is produced.

Q10. Is a custom-made one-off item "placed on the market"?

A10. The UK Regulations make use of the concept of selling rather than
placing on the market, which makes the position clearer. Even one-off
items are covered by the Directive, as they are sold to an end user.

Q11. Is reconditioned second-hand equipment covered?

A11. When the Directive was published in 1989, I asked the DTI about this
issue, and received a reply in terms of an analogy. "We accept that a broom
which has had three new heads and two new handles is the same broom, but if
one of the heads has an extra row of bristles, then it would become a new
broom, and be required to meet the legislation for new brooms." The advice
is still valid. In other words, if the apparatus is repaired to original
condition, it is still considered second-hand and therefore outside the
scope of the Directive. The UK EMC Regulations make this distinction clear
in Regulation 16, where reconditioning and modification which substantially
alters the EMC characteristics of the apparatus brings the apparatus within
the scope of the Regulations. Note that, to be considered second-hand, the
apparatus must have been used previously by an end user within the EEA.

Q12. Can compliance with more that one Directive be stated on one
Declaration of Conformity?

A12. Yes, provided that all the relevant information is given for each
Directive.

Q13. Do software upgrades affect the validity of the CE Mark?

A13. There has been much debate on this subject, and the consensus to date
suggests that software changes should be considered in assessing whether a
re-evaluation for EMC is necessary. From an emissions perspective, the
equipment should have been exercised to a maximum extent, possibly by the
use of a special program. Analysis may show that the new software does not
exercise the equipment to a greater extent than that tested originally.
However, changes in software can affect susceptibility, particularly to
transients.

Q14. What degradation of performance is acceptable for immunity testing?

A14. The manufacturer may state this in the user documentation, providing
the degradation is acceptable and would not compromise safety. If no
statement is made, then in cases of dispute, the performance that a user
would reasonably expect will be used.

Q15. Does an assembly of CE Marked sub-assemblies make for a compliant
product?

A15. Not necessarily. There are sound technical reasons why this should be
so. The final manufacturer takes responsibility for the EMC performance of
the completed product.

Q16. What is the responsibility of an installer?

A16. If the installer is not the supplier, he should carry out the
installation in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

Q17. How do I decide if a printed wiring assembly should be CE marked or
not?

A17. Boards intended for an end user should carry the CE Mark, backed by a
Declaration of Conformity. Boards which are intended only to form part of
another system, and intended to be incorporated into a finished product
need not be marked.

Q18. What do I have to do if I sell personal computers after fitting an
extra card in them?

A18. When this is done, the person carrying out the act performs the final
stage of manufacture of the product as supplied to the end user, and there-
fore takes responsibility for the EMC performance of the whole. However,
the Directive does not require testing to be performed, and assuming the
basic computer and the cards are CE Marked, the assembler may be satisfied
with some simple derived tests to satisfy himself that the final product
remains compliant.

This may not be sufficient if the assembly consists of a larger number of
modules fitted to a box containing only a power supply or power supply and
mother board.

Q19. What is the situation with regard to Components and CE Marking?

A19. One of the most contentious and misunderstood areas relates to
components and benign apparatus. As a result of my seeking further
clarification from Trading Standards, we now have a clearer picture of the
legal position in this area.

BENIGN APPARATUS
This "apparatus" as described in Regulation 7(2), but is excepted from the
requirements by Regulation 17. Benign apparatus is therefore not "relevant
apparatus".

Regulation 36(6) prohibits the affixing of the CE Mark for EMC to any
apparatus which is not relevant apparatus. A CE Mark applied to such
apparatus would therefore be technically in breach of Regulation 85(1)(b).
It is understood that the DTI has a relaxed view of this, providing the
marking is not materially wrong.

There are, however, possible other problems with the affixing of the mark
to such apparatus, under the Trade Descriptions Act (see below).

COMPONENTS AND SUB-ASSEMBLIES INTENDED FOR FURTHER MANUFACTURING
Although many words have been written on this subject (including articles
in the EMC Journal) a closer examination of the wording of the Directive
and the UK EMC Regulations has resulted in an amendment to the advice.

Components and sub-assemblies are not "apparatus" and are not covered in
the Directive or the UK Regulations. It follows therefore, that there is
no offence in the EMC Regulations for affixing the CE Mark to these items.

However, by adding a CE Mark, a manufacturer is adding a trade description.
If the item were shown in some way to be not in conformity with the
protection requirements of the Directive, then the CE Mark could constitute
a "false and misleading statement" and therefore constitute an offence
under Section 1 of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968.

Although there would be a technical breach, it is possible that no action
would be taken unless the description was false to a material degree. If
the item was shown to be the cause of relevant apparatus causing
interference or suffering a suscepibility problem, or indeed failing an EMC
test, then a complaint could lead to a prosecution under the Trade
Descriptions Act.

By affixing the mark, therefore, the component or sub-assembly manufacturer
has possibly taken on liability for the EMC performance of his product.

As components and sub-assemblies are not required to meet the EMC
Regulations, if they were not marked, there would be no offence, even if
they were shown to be the cause of an EMC problem as described above.

The advice from the DTI and the TSOs continues to be that components and
sub-assemblies should not be CE Marked for EMC.

12. Acknowledgments
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul E Bennett [censored]
Eckard Blumschein [censored]
Andy Gulliver [censored]
Alan E Hutley [censored]
Adrian McLeod [censored]
Art Michael [censored]
Pamela Nadeau [censored]
John Quinlan [censored]
Martin Rowe [censored]
Dr John Stockton [censored]
Jeremy Turner [censored]
Frank Warner [censored]

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

Bill Lyons

2005-11-21, 6:21 am

On Saturday, in article <dlqc8o$fan$1@eskinews.eskimo.com>
mzenier@eskimo.com "Mark Zenier" wrote:

> In article <nPKdnZshda0W_eLenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@usadatanet.net>,
> Pop <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> Digging out the first postings to the group. From April 1996,
> (email addressed removed)

[rest snipped]

Mark,

It was good to see a posting from my old comrade-in-arms and to be
reminded of your huge part in getting s.e.e.c established. I won't
repeat the whole of your posting, especially as the FAQ contents are long
obsolete, but the following extract is the answer to Pop's question, and
I think we must be delighted that the n.g. has continued, with natural
changes in direction and emphasis:

1. The sci.engr.electrical.compliance newsgroup
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The desire for a Usenet newsgroup devoted to "compliance" matters such as
EMC and safety relative to electrical and electronic equipment has been
expressed by a number of posters to various newsgroups. As part of the
reorganization of the sci.electronics.* heirarchy carried out by Mark
Zenier <mzenier@netcom.com>, he had prepared a draft Request for Discussion
(RFD), and this became the basis for the establishment of s.e.e.c

The following is taken from the final RFD and the successful CFV (Call for
Votes) which resulted in the creation of s.e.e.c:-

Newsgroups line:
sci.engr.electrical.compliance -
Laws, regulations and design for EMC, safety.

CHARTER: sci.engr.electrical.compliance

Discussions on the laws, regulations, and safety approval procedures
governing the production, design and marketing of electronic and electrical
equipment, and the engineering techniques used to comply with them.

Although s.e.e.c still provides a valuable discussion forum, a FAQ is no
longer maintained, per the following announcement from July 2002:

FAQ: SOURCES OF EMC AND SAFETY COMPLIANCE INFORMATION
First posted: April 17, 1996
64th & last issue: August 15, 2001

This FAQ is no longer updated, and with the passage of time the information
it provided is increasingly out of date.

However if you do require a copy of the final issue (two files, each approx
60k) please email me as below, advising your name, and company/organisation
affiliation. Use with caution!

The web version at http://users.metro2000.net/~purwinc/compliance_faq.html
is even more out of date, having not been updated since April 2001.

Bill Lyons
Bill@lyons.demon.co.uk

1st July 2002

Best wishes to you, Mark, and all users of the newsgroup.

Bill

--
Bill Lyons - Bill@lyons.demon.co.uk / w.lyons@ieee.org

Pop

2005-11-21, 4:21 pm

"Bill Lyons" <Bill@lyons.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20051121.0941.180828snz@lyons.demon.co.uk...
: On Saturday, in article <dlqc8o$fan$1@eskinews.eskimo.com>
: mzenier@eskimo.com "Mark Zenier" wrote:
:
: > In article <nPKdnZshda0W_eLenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@usadatanet.net>,
: > Pop <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> wrote:
: > >Interesting group name; what "compliance" does this ng
relate to?
: > >Or does no one remember any longer? <g>
: >
: > Digging out the first postings to the group. From April
1996,
: > (email addressed removed)
:
: [rest snipped]
:
: Mark,
:
: It was good to see a posting from my old comrade-in-arms and to
be
: reminded of your huge part in getting s.e.e.c established. I
won't
: repeat the whole of your posting, especially as the FAQ
contents are long
: obsolete, but the following extract is the answer to Pop's
question, and
: I think we must be delighted that the n.g. has continued, with
natural
: changes in direction and emphasis:
:
: 1. The sci.engr.electrical.compliance newsgroup
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: The desire for a Usenet newsgroup devoted to "compliance"
matters such as
: EMC and safety relative to electrical and electronic
equipment has been
: expressed by a number of posters to various newsgroups. As
part of the
: reorganization of the sci.electronics.* heirarchy carried
out by Mark
: Zenier <mzenier@netcom.com>, he had prepared a draft Request
for Discussion
: (RFD), and this became the basis for the establishment of
s.e.e.c
:
: The following is taken from the final RFD and the successful
CFV (Call for
: Votes) which resulted in the creation of s.e.e.c:-
:
:
: Newsgroups line:
: sci.engr.electrical.compliance -
: Laws, regulations and design for
EMC, safety.
:
:
: CHARTER: sci.engr.electrical.compliance
:
: Discussions on the laws, regulations, and safety
approval procedures
: governing the production, design and marketing of electronic
and electrical
: equipment, and the engineering techniques used to comply with
them.
:
:
:
: Although s.e.e.c still provides a valuable discussion forum, a
FAQ is no
: longer maintained, per the following announcement from July
2002:
:
:
: FAQ: SOURCES OF EMC AND SAFETY COMPLIANCE INFORMATION
: First posted: April 17, 1996
: 64th & last issue: August 15, 2001
:
: This FAQ is no longer updated, and with the passage of time the
information
: it provided is increasingly out of date.
:
: However if you do require a copy of the final issue (two files,
each approx
: 60k) please email me as below, advising your name, and
company/organisation
: affiliation. Use with caution!
:
: The web version at
http://users.metro2000.net/~purwinc/compliance_faq.html
: is even more out of date, having not been updated since April
2001.
:
: Bill Lyons
: Bill@lyons.demon.co.uk
:
: 1st July 2002
:
:
: Best wishes to you, Mark, and all users of the newsgroup.
:
: Bill
:
: --
: Bill Lyons - Bill@lyons.demon.co.uk / w.lyons@ieee.org
:

Hi Bill, et al who responded,

Thanks for the history lesson; I was kind of hoping it would go
that direction. No particular reason other than I come from the
Compliance Industry too, or at least up until 2000 when my health
forced me into retirement a decade or so early. We started out
as a telecom compliance testing labs but went the gamut when the
world went digital <g>.
As for being current, hey, other than the person that did the
release of the specs, I don't think I or anyone else was ever,
really 100% positive they were testing to the most current spec!
They flew around fast and furious there for a few years <g>.
Seldom got called on anything though. It was fun and we met a
lot of interesting people.

I neglected to ask what countries etc., but the ref URL cleared
that up pretty quick. It didn't matter before but it does now
since I have a question to post for here in the US <g>. I'll
probably cross-post it here when I get it worded - looks like
some great expertise still running thru here. It's great to see
ieee, PEs and others too; it's been a long time.

KUDOS and best of luck to you all.

Pop

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