quote:

---

>
> Greetings, good people. Please pardon me if this is a somewhat odd
> request for the newsgroup but I'm at my wit's end with the mortgage
> company from hell.
>
> The branch I am dealing with was once the San Diego office of Advanta
> Mortgage and the same clowns are still servicing my first mortgage.
>
> In the last 5 years we have about 25 violations of RESPA where Chase just
> ignores our inquiry, unwarranted "placed insurance," extortion of extra
> monthly payments under threat of foreclosure, false reporting to the
> credit bureaues in order to keep us captive at 9% interest.
>
> Last winter I filed an action in court, in Pro Per, to stop this constant
> harrassment. We have a lot of equity in this house and believe they are
> trying to foreclose, for the third time, just ot get out equity. They've
> even filed foreclosure over a disputed late charge and ignored my
> certified mailings and canceled checks. On the even of trial they agreed
> to binding arbitration then drag their feet for 7 months. Finally I filed
> binding arbitration myself and we now wait for the arbitration date.
>
> In the meantime the damage they've done to my credit has caused me to lose
> one income property and is now about to lose me a second. Evidenty
> Mortgage companies fall between the administrative cracks, state banking
> regulators can't regulate interstaet mortgage companies, individual
> instances like this are beneath the notice of the Office of the
> Comptroller of the Currency, my representative isn't any help and I don't
> have the cash to pay for an attorney.
>
> Who controls these predators? Google lists a lot of others (without
> contact information) who have essentially identical problems with Chase
> Manhattan Mortgage. How does one begin a class actions suit or get a
> regulator involved? If my case is as common as it appears then Chase is
> extorting millions in unearned feeds every year.
>
> Please reply with your circumstances to the email address below. If
> enough people respond I'll put the complaints up for others to see with
> your personal info confidential unless given permission to share.
>
> Thanks for your time, I won't begin another thread on the subject but will
> respond here or in private.
>
> -- Regards, Curly
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.curlysurmudgeon.com/blog curly@curlysurmudgeon.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

quote:

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> What isx the harrassment? Are they asking you to make the payments as you
> agreed when you signed the loan documents?

quote:

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> If you have ANY proof that they are conspiring to keep you at a high
> interest rate, then you should pursue your claims.

quote:

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> But, if you called me to initiate a refinance, I am going to pull credit
> and the credit report will tell me that you are making payments late, if
> at all. If this happens, then your claims will be dismissed. If you
> really want to get a refi, I can ask the current lender for a Mortgage
> Rating or a Verification of Mortgage (VOM). The lender will provide me
> with a detailed breakdown of your payment history, typically for the
> prior 12 months but I can request for 24 or 36 months.

quote:

---

> I am not sure what the "unwarranted placed insurance" is. But, if the
> LTV is greater than 80%, then this will be mortgage insurance that the
> bank will demand to protect them if you default. Having said that, you
> say you have plenty of equity so this is probably not what you are
> making payments on.

quote:

---

> You say that they have done damage to yoru credit that has caused you to
> lose a property. I don't see how this can happen because if you are
> making the payments as required, nobody is going to be interested in
> your credit. If you do not make the payments, then your credit score
> will go into the dumper and then you won't be able to refinance, and
> this can cause you to lose a property. But the root of the problem in
> this instance isn't that the credit score causes you to lose property,
> the problem is you have trouble making payments and this causes the
> score to suffer.

quote:

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> You have to remember that a FICO score is a guage of past performance.
> Lenders look at the past performance as a guage of what you will do in
> the future. The assumption is, if you sucked in the past, the odds are
> you will suck in the future, and you get a higher interest rate as a
> result. Borrowers with a profile like this should take a short term
> loan, FIX THEIR PROFILE, then refinance to a standard loan product.

quote:

---

> If there is anybody that can help you break the cycle you find yourself
> in, I can. Sure, there are others as well, I am not the only solution
> source for your problem. But, if it is possible to get you out of this
> prediciment, I can do it. Forget about what has happened in the past,
> and let's look to what we can do to fix the future. I can't change
> anything that has happened, and you very well may have an actionable
> case. If I can uncover anything that you can use, I'll be happy to share
> it, but the best that I can promise is that if there is a light at the
> end of the tunnel, I can make sure it isn't an oncoming train.
>
> Too bad you think I am a religious zealot ...
>
> Call me.
> Jeff Strickland

quote:

---

> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:58:56 -0700, Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
>
> No, they've demanded _extra_ payments which were already made. For
> example June(July?)2004 was paid on time, the check cashed yet a few
> months later they claimed it hadn't been. Even when I sent them copies of
> the check front & rear with the account number and notation, "Payment in
> full through June 31, 2004" they persisted threatening foreclosure if I
> didn't pay again. Plus they nailed me for months of late charges.
>

quote:

---

>
> Agreed, but what federal regulatory board manages these creeps?
>

quote:

---

>
> This is the problem, they're reporting many months of late payments that
> just aren't so.
>

quote:

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>
> No, this is fire insurance. I had insurance then Chase "placed" their own
> insurance on the property in addition at triple my cost. The insurance
> company they use is a wholely-owned subsidary living in the same building.
>

quote:

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> Worse still is that they've never sent a policy and refuse to provide a
> copy of their having paid for the insurance yet they threatened
> foreclosure, again, if I didn't ante up for their insurance. And reported
> my credit as "late" because I didn't pay and disputed thier claims.
>
> Once they've "placed" insurance I can't buy at normal rates any longer
> and have to pay about double the normal rate.
>

quote:

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>
> The pivotal word is "required." Required by contract, yes, required by
> Chase, no. Because I've disputed these extra charges they report me as
> being "late" to the credit bureaus.
>

quote:

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>
> My credit is perfect excepting Chase, with many charge cards fully paid up
> and one 30 day late in many, many years.
>

quote:

---

>
> Ha! Hiya, Jeff. Actually I did file a lawsuit against them last fall.
> On the eve of trial they asked for Binding Arbitration which I agreed to
> but then they dragged their feet and never started the arbitration going.
> I began it early this month but they're dragging their feet trying to
> grind us into the dirt. It's just frustrating to deal with an
> unsupervised entity that has such absolute power over you, worse in many
> fashions than dealing with the government.
>

quote:

---

> Ha! Hiya, Jeff. Actually I did file a lawsuit against them last fall.
> On the eve of trial they asked for Binding Arbitration which I agreed to
> but then they dragged their feet and never started the arbitration going.
> I began it early this month but they're dragging their feet trying to
> grind us into the dirt. It's just frustrating to deal with an
> unsupervised entity that has such absolute power over you, worse in many
> fashions than dealing with the government.

quote:

---

> There are an entire host of violations going on here, or massive
> misunderstanding on your part - or mine. What you are telling me does not
> wash with what should be happening.
>
> It is reasonable that the bank may have missed properly recording payments
> you have made, but they are bound by consumer protection laws to correcting
> the mistakes when you satisfactorily provide the proof that the payments
> were made on time. I have never heard of so many mistakes on the part of the
> bank to crash a borrowers credit score. Typically, these mistakes are at the
> rate of less than 1 a year.
>
> Second, you should be free to go out and find your own homeowners insurance,
> including fire coverage. It is expressly illegal to force you to accept the
> lenders insurance coverage, BUT it is perfectly legal that you can be
> required to carry the levels and coverages tha tthe lender demands. For
> example, the lender can demand that you carry $1000 deductable as opposed to
> $5000 deductable, or that you carry coverage that pays for fire damage, and
> that the policy covers the structure to $400,000 <or whatever>. If you FAIL
> to get the required deductables, coverages, or limits, then the lender can
> impose its insurance carrier on you, but you can go out and get the same
> coverage limits and terms to replace the lender's policy.
>
> Sorry for the top post, I am going to ask questions inside your message
> below ...

quote:

---

> "Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.04.30.07.04.12.623966@curlysurmudgeon.com...
>
> Is this notation from the bank, or is it your notation? If your notation, it
> is meaningless.

quote:

---

> One thing that isn't clear to me is if you understand that you pay
> Mortgage Interest in arears. This means that the payment you make today
> pays the interest that accrued since the last payment. The payment on
> May 1 pays interest that built up in April. (On a car loan, for example,
> the payment on May 1 pays the interest that will accrue before the next
> payment due date.) If you make a mortgage payment late then you
> technically owe yet another month's interest. For example, if you make
> the May 1 payment on May 16 or later, you owe not only the interest that
> accrued during April, but also the new interest that is building up in
> May. The bank collects a late fee when you make a late payment, and they
> will report you to the credit agencies as being 30 days late. If you
> make the May payment in June, the June payment in July, the July payment
> in August, etc., and eventually make two payments at the same time to
> come current, then this is called a rolling 30. You went down 30 days
> way back in June, and took until November to get current, but the banks
> will look at this as a single 30 day late because the payments were
> timely, but each paid the one before until you finally made two at the
> same time. You need to make two to cover the rolling 30 that has been
> carried since June, and to cover the current payment that is due.

quote:

---

> It is not clear to me that you had a rolling 30, and forgot or otherwise
> missed it.

quote:

---

> There are several. I suggest you start with the FHA.
>
> Alternatively, I can take an application, pull your credit, then go over
> the report in detail. Of course, I'd like to get you a loan, but you are
> driving the bus here and you can elect to go forward or you can pull the
> plug. Either way, you will have an accurate understanding of what the
> report says. The goal here is to arm you with FACTS as reported by the
> bank. Of course you have your version of the facts, but what yo are
> missing is the bank's version of the facts. I am not charging for the
> report so my manager will not allow me to give you a copy of the full
> report, but I can discuss it in detail, and I have no knowledge that you
> are taking notes or not because we do this over the phone.

quote:

---

> You need to gather all of your cancelled checks as evidence. Again, if
> you have a rolling 30, I will see it when I pull my credit report. You
> might not even know of the first late, and could go for months rolling a
> 30 day late along. I have seen an entire year of 30 day lates, and the
> borrower didn't even know.

quote:

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> They can't do this UNLESS your coverages or limits were not up to the
> required levels. You can replace the policy they imposed, but you have
> to maintian the coverages and limits they demand. If you had a loan for
> $400,000, but only insured the structure for $150,000, then the lender
> will say that this is not enough and they will demand you raise your
> policy limits. If yo do not comply, they will impose a policy with the
> limits they demand. You can replace this policy with your own -
> presumably cheaper - but you will have to keep the coverages and limits.

quote:

---

> If you allowed your existing policy to lapse, then the bank will impose
> its policy, and your allowing the original policy to lapse is the reason
> you can not get a new policy. The lapse is the problem, not the imposed
> policy. Well, the imposed policy is a problem, but it is a different
> problem than you describe.

quote:

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> Of course they will.
>
>
>
>
> There is a serious disconnect here. You are telling me that your credit
> is good, but you are losing properties because your credit score is
> suffering.

quote:

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> Let me give you a Reader's Digest version of how credit is scored.
>
> Everybody has a score of 850. This is the Starting Point of the
> algorithm. From here, the credit score is REDUCED due to a variety of
> factors until a FICO Score is obtained. The reduction of the score from
> 850 to wherever your score is is based on the amount of credit, payment
> history, the age of the credit, and the kind of credit. Finally, the
> score will be reduced for credit report pulls.

quote:

---

> The Amount of Credit
> If you have cards with a $15,000 limit, but have a $14,000 balance
> (93%), then your score is going to be hit very hard. If you have several
> like this, then you will suffer greatly. If you had the same card(s),
> but carried balances of $6500 (43%), then your score would not be hit
> hardly at all.

quote:

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> Payment History
> If you had recent lates, the most recent 6 to 12 months, then these will
> hit hard, if the lates are from 12 to 24 months, then the hit will be
> less, more than 24 months then there will be very little affect.

quote:

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> Age of Credit
> If you carried a stack of credit cards for accounts you opened in the
> 80s, then your score will not be reduced nearly as much as the same
> number of cards opened last week. The mistake many people make - me
> included - is to roll an old account over to a 0% offer for 90 days.
> Then roll that account to another 0% account, then another and so on.
> While you are taking a 20% rate and rolling it to 0%, and saving
> interest fees, you are taking a huge hit on your credit score. Huge.

quote:

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> Kind of Credit
> The worst kind of credit is the type you get when you buy a new Living
> Room set with NO PAYMENTS FOR 12 MONTHS. The furniture store wants to
> get paid today, not in a year. So, they hook you up with a loan shark
> that offers loans to the very worst of borrowers. Even if you are among
> the best of borrowers, you just climbed into the bathtub with the worst,
> and by extension you just became one of them, one of the worst.

quote:

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> Credit Pulls
> If you have alot of activity on having credit pulled, this can reduce
> your score because the assumptin is that if you have credit pulled then
> you must have credit extended, or denied. If extended then you have a
> new account, if denied then you have too much credit. Either way there
> is a hit to your score.

quote:

---

> These factors all hit your score differently, that is they have
> different impacts. Your ratio of balance to limit hits about 35% of the
> reduction, Credit Pulls hit about 10% of the reduction. The other
> factors are somewhere in between.
>
>
>
>
> They are not unsupervised. Indeed, mortgage lenders are supervised
> heavily. My experinece in this is on the Loan Origination side, and we
> are regulated by a variety of consumer protection laws. Your issue is
> with a loan that has already been made, and while I assume that the same
> protections apply, I don't really know for sure.
>
> Ironically, the government is your friend in this dispute, they are the
> supervising authority.

quote:

---

> "Curly Surmudgeon" <curly@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.04.30.07.04.12.623966@curlysurmudgeon.com...
>
> If you already filed your own lawsuit, and it's this far down the line, all
> you can do is see it through to the end.
>
> Before you filed your own lawsuit pro per, had you tried contacting a
> consumer law attorney or a law firm that specializes in predatory lending
> and RESPA cases in your state. My understanding is that, if you have a
> valid case, you can get an attorney to represent you on contingency fee
> basis. Some states have "strict liability" laws which mean that even if the
> banking institution or lender made errors that were unintentional, they are
> still responsible. Also, many of these types of lawsuit allow for
> plaintiff' attorney fees to be paid, and in some cases, treble damages.
>
> But, I think the bottom line is that you entered the system pro per and,
> unless some new claim has arisen that would warrant a motion to amend your
> complaint, you are stuck with the process you chose -- including the binding
> arbitration.

quote:

---

>
> I'll keep you posted here as the binding arbitration proceeds. Hopefully
> I'll be rid of these clowns soon by resolving the dispute and selling this
> property and relocating. Can't even sell right now due to their clouding
> the title.
>